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Re: [bolger] Electric auxiliary engine

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  • Stan Muller
    ... Well that burst my bubble! Next thought, How bout an outboard? ;-) Stan, Micro Tugger, Snow Goose
    Message 1 of 21 , May 1, 2000
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      > I made some enquiries in this direction. There are some very nice
      > infinitely geared reversible pump/motor combinations, but they are not that
      > efficient with small engines.
      >

      Well that burst my bubble! Next thought, How 'bout an outboard? ;-)
      Stan, Micro Tugger, Snow Goose
    • KF4call@aol.com
      Well if money was no object....I see where Toyota and some others use both internal combustion and electric with a computer to tell it all when to run off of
      Message 2 of 21 , May 1, 2000
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        Well if money was no object....I see where Toyota and some others use both
        internal combustion and electric with a computer to tell it all when to run
        off of which powerplant using what kind of power source. On their car I
        think the IC can drive either an alternator to run the electric motor or can
        be used for direct drive...And for a boat, if drag could be tolerated, the
        prop could turn the alternator when sailing. What great fun to think about a
        test vessel... "Hey, It could happen"....Regards, Warren
      • Gordon Couger
        From: Roger Dewhurst To: ... ========= a 24 or 32 volt system would be a lot better. ... ============= Maybe not
        Message 3 of 21 , May 1, 2000
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          From: "Roger Dewhurst" <dewhurst@...>
          To: <bolger@...>



          >
          > >Wheels started turning in my head, did a little math and concluded
          > >that a hybrid electric set up would be possible. Using 2 90 amp
          > >12 V alternators to produce about 120 amps would convert to
          > >about 2 hp.
          >
          > You are going to need 5mm diameter copper wire to carry that current!
          =========
          a 24 or 32 volt system would be a lot better.
          >
          > > It might take a 8 or 10 hp engine to run them
          >
          > I do not think that the efficiency would be quite that low.
          =============
          Maybe not but to run a 2 hp electic motor will take at least
          5HP or more.
          >
          > >IC engine You would not necessarily need a IC engine capable
          > >of developing full power of the electric motor. The battery bank
          > >could greatly increases the output of the electric motor for fairly
          > >long periods of time.
          >
          > Say you have got a couple of 40 ampere-hour batteries, you are not going
          to
          > get an hour running time. You are not going to make do with ordinary car
          > batteries either.
          =====
          Golf cart batteries are the thing. An electric system would not make
          sense if you were using it as a motor sailer but it would if you need
          power for docking clearing channels and emergency get to the house
          at 80% of hull speed or so.

          Gordon W5RED

          G. C. Couger gcouger@... Stillwater, OK
          www.couger.com/gcouger
          "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
        • Gordon Couger
          ... From: Stan Muller To: Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [bolger] Electric auxiliary engine ... lo
          Message 4 of 21 , May 1, 2000
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Stan Muller" <smuller@...>
            To: <bolger@egroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:57 PM
            Subject: Re: [bolger] Electric auxiliary engine


            > Hi Gordon,
            > How about using a hydraulic pump on the ic engine, and a hydraulic
            > motor in the keel. Then there are no batteries, and yet you still have
            > the ability to mount the engine anywhere. You would also have near the
            > efficiency of the original set up. I don't think this would cost any
            > more than your electric conversion.
            > Just another thought for your thought.
            > All the best, Stan, Micro Tugger, Snow Goose

            'lo Stan,

            Hydraulics might be a consideration for 30 to 80 hp systems. They
            don't have the instant start of the electric system that I think is it's
            biggest benefit.

            Gordon
          • Roger Dewhurst
            ... Sorry, where to you keep your bubble!!!!! How about an outboard in a well just forward of the transom? Roger
            Message 5 of 21 , May 1, 2000
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              At 22:27 1/05/00 -0500, you wrote:
              >> I made some enquiries in this direction. There are some very nice
              >> infinitely geared reversible pump/motor combinations, but they are not that
              >> efficient with small engines.
              >>
              >
              >Well that burst my bubble! Next thought, How 'bout an outboard? ;-)

              Sorry, where to you keep your bubble!!!!! How about an outboard in a well
              just forward of the transom?

              Roger
            • Gordon Couger
              From: Roger Dewhurst ... What a novel idea. Gordon
              Message 6 of 21 , May 1, 2000
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                From: "Roger Dewhurst" <dewhurst@...>
                > >
                > >Well that burst my bubble! Next thought, How 'bout an outboard? ;-)
                >
                > Sorry, where to you keep your bubble!!!!! How about an outboard in a well
                > just forward of the transom?

                What a novel idea.

                Gordon
              • Donald Hodges
                If you are taking a poll, I vote against an outboard in a well - I ll spare you my whole rant, but just imagine an outboard as a close companion inside a small
                Message 7 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                  If you are taking a poll, I vote against an outboard in a well - I'll spare
                  you my whole rant, but just imagine an outboard as a close companion inside
                  a small boat - I did it once in a 26 footer, never again!

                  Don Hodges
                  dhodges@...
                  http://www.ecoastlife.com
                  Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
                  Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Roger Dewhurst <dewhurst@...>
                  To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 11:25 PM
                  Subject: Re: [bolger] Electric auxiliary engine


                  > At 22:27 1/05/00 -0500, you wrote:
                  > >> I made some enquiries in this direction. There are some very nice
                  > >> infinitely geared reversible pump/motor combinations, but they are not
                  that
                  > >> efficient with small engines.
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >Well that burst my bubble! Next thought, How 'bout an outboard? ;-)
                  >
                  > Sorry, where to you keep your bubble!!!!! How about an outboard in a well
                  > just forward of the transom?
                  >
                  > Roger
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                  > unique interests. eTour.com is surfing without searching.
                  > And, it's FREE!
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Roger Dewhurst
                  ... Hydraulic pump/motor combinations are common enough in general industrial situations. It is not necessary to look for special marine versions. But
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                    At 16:35 2/05/00 -0000, you wrote:
                    >I remember seeing a hydraulic drive auxiliary system advertised in
                    >SAIL, decades ago. By now it is a vague memory.
                    >

                    Hydraulic pump/motor combinations are common enough in general industrial
                    situations. It is not necessary to look for special marine versions. But
                    consider the efficiencies of both pump and motor and the head losses
                    involved in pumping hydraulic oil around before going down this track.

                    Roger.
                  • Roger Dewhurst
                    ... Some additional advantages perhaps:- The motor is not bumping around on the transom while towing. It is not exposed to tempt the thief. Old hacksaw blades
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                      > if you put a hatch/fishing table with some lagging under over the top of
                      >the motor box, they are quieter than hanging on the transom. If you pull the
                      >motor out (it better be under 10hp) and put a prawn cooking wire cage in you
                      >can have a pretty good shower. Also the new 4-strokes are pretty quiet (but
                      >as youve doubtless noticed you pay plenty for what you dont get...noise!)
                      >

                      Some additional advantages perhaps:-

                      The motor is not bumping around on the transom while towing.

                      It is not exposed to tempt the thief.

                      Old hacksaw blades can be embedded in the wood laminate of the covering box
                      making it exceedingly difficult for the thief to cut the box off to get at
                      the motor. Thieves here have been known to cut the whole transom out with a
                      chain saw to get the motor! If I intended to hang the motor on the transom
                      I would embed old hacksaw blades in the transom laminate!

                      Roger.
                    • Lincoln Ross
                      I remember seeing a hydraulic drive auxiliary system advertised in SAIL, decades ago. By now it is a vague memory. ... outboard? ;-) ... in a well
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                        I remember seeing a hydraulic drive auxiliary system advertised in
                        SAIL, decades ago. By now it is a vague memory.

                        --- In bolger@egroups.com, Gordon Couger <gcouger@r...> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: "Roger Dewhurst" <dewhurst@w...>
                        > > >
                        > > >Well that burst my bubble! Next thought, How 'bout an
                        outboard?
                        ;-)
                        > >
                        > > Sorry, where to you keep your bubble!!!!! How about an outboard
                        in a well
                        > > just forward of the transom?
                        >
                        > What a novel idea.
                        >
                        > Gordon
                      • Roger Dewhurst
                        ... You are lucky. Perhaps we need to tote a little more artillery! ... Have you seen those motor mount boards that lie parallel to the transom on a
                        Message 11 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                          At 18:13 2/05/00 -0500, you wrote:
                          >We don't seem to have the thievery problem here in gun-totin' Southeast
                          >USA...

                          You are lucky. Perhaps we need to tote a little more artillery!
                          >
                          >I didn't like the fumes (2-stroke), noise, or the drag (my well was small,
                          >couldn't tilt the outboard for sailing).

                          Have you seen those motor mount boards that lie parallel to the transom on a
                          parallelogram frame which has horizontal pivoting axes also parallel to the
                          transom. Mounted on these you simply lift the motor with a bit of help from
                          a pair of big springs. You may even have to push the motor down to lock it
                          in the drive position.

                          >Also, it takes up valuable space
                          >and cuts out a lot of planing area aft in a planing boat. There, that's my
                          >whole rant.


                          >
                        • Jeff Gilbert
                          Don, if you put a hatch/fishing table with some lagging under over the top of the motor box, they are quieter than hanging on the transom. If you pull the
                          Message 12 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                            Don,
                            if you put a hatch/fishing table with some lagging under over the top of
                            the motor box, they are quieter than hanging on the transom. If you pull the
                            motor out (it better be under 10hp) and put a prawn cooking wire cage in you
                            can have a pretty good shower. Also the new 4-strokes are pretty quiet (but
                            as youve doubtless noticed you pay plenty for what you dont get...noise!)
                            Whats probably worse, none the less it won a "Cruising World Design
                            Competition & put him on the "Map", is Dud Dix's 32foot mono with the diesel
                            under the Saloon Table.
                            Cheers
                            Jeff Gilbert


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Donald Hodges <dhodges@...>
                            To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                            Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 11:08 PM
                            Subject: Re: [bolger] Electric auxiliary engine


                            If you are taking a poll, I vote against an outboard in a well - I'll spare
                            you my whole rant, but just imagine an outboard as a close companion inside
                            a small boat - I did it once in a 26 footer, never again!

                            Don Hodges
                          • Peter Vanderwaart
                            ... Design ... the diesel ... For better or worse, engines in the middle of the cabin are very common in racing boats. Peter
                            Message 13 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                              > Whats probably worse, none the less it won a "Cruising World
                              Design
                              > Competition & put him on the "Map", is Dud Dix's 32foot mono with
                              the diesel
                              > under the Saloon Table.

                              For better or worse, engines in the middle of the cabin are very
                              common in racing boats.

                              Peter
                            • Donald Hodges
                              We don t seem to have the thievery problem here in gun-totin Southeast USA... I didn t like the fumes (2-stroke), noise, or the drag (my well was small,
                              Message 14 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                                We don't seem to have the thievery problem here in gun-totin' Southeast
                                USA...

                                I didn't like the fumes (2-stroke), noise, or the drag (my well was small,
                                couldn't tilt the outboard for sailing). Also, it takes up valuable space
                                and cuts out a lot of planing area aft in a planing boat. There, that's my
                                whole rant.

                                Don Hodges
                                dhodges@...
                                http://www.ecoastlife.com
                                Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
                                Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Roger Dewhurst <dewhurst@...>
                                To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                                Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 8:13 AM
                                Subject: Re: [bolger] Electric auxiliary engine


                                >
                                > > if you put a hatch/fishing table with some lagging under over the top
                                of
                                > >the motor box, they are quieter than hanging on the transom. If you pull
                                the
                                > >motor out (it better be under 10hp) and put a prawn cooking wire cage in
                                you
                                > >can have a pretty good shower. Also the new 4-strokes are pretty quiet
                                (but
                                > >as youve doubtless noticed you pay plenty for what you dont get...noise!)
                                > >
                                >
                                > Some additional advantages perhaps:-
                                >
                                > The motor is not bumping around on the transom while towing.
                                >
                                > It is not exposed to tempt the thief.
                                >
                                > Old hacksaw blades can be embedded in the wood laminate of the covering
                                box
                                > making it exceedingly difficult for the thief to cut the box off to get at
                                > the motor. Thieves here have been known to cut the whole transom out with
                                a
                                > chain saw to get the motor! If I intended to hang the motor on the
                                transom
                                > I would embed old hacksaw blades in the transom laminate!
                                >
                                > Roger.
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > Now the best and coolest websites come right to you based on your
                                > unique interests. eTour.com is surfing without searching.
                                > And, it's FREE!
                                > http://click.egroups.com/1/3013/6/_/3457/_/957303860/
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • edward haile
                                Hi Gordon, Have you heard of The Electric Wheel ? I picked up a brochure at the Annapolis boat show in 97 or 98, and I am still not quite sure what it is. I
                                Message 15 of 21 , May 2, 2000
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                                  Hi Gordon,

                                  Have you heard of "The Electric Wheel"? I picked up a brochure at the
                                  Annapolis boat show in '97 or '98, and I am still not quite sure what it is.
                                  I quote from the brochure:

                                  "The sailboat did 6k for 17-1/2 hrs (1200 watts burn rate) from a single
                                  charge, with three solar panels and regenerative feedback." "The sailboat
                                  did 2.7k with only one motor, demonstrating the redundant emergency
                                  operation." The boat was an old 33' mahogany yacht. The principle seems to
                                  be very high power at very low rpm. Weighs 50lbs.

                                  Ed Haile


                                  >From: Gordon Couger <gcouger@...>
                                  >Reply-To: bolger@egroups.com
                                  >To: bolger@...
                                  >Subject: [bolger] Electric auxiliary engine
                                  >Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:08:52 -0500
                                  >
                                  >I was looking at this issue of MIB and noticing what an intrusion the
                                  >engine compartment made in Bolger's small cruiser.
                                  >
                                  >Wheels started turning in my head, did a little math and concluded
                                  >that a hybrid electric set up would be possible. Using 2 90 amp
                                  >12 V alternators to produce about 120 amps would convert to
                                  >about 2 hp. It might take a 8 or 10 hp engine to run them but
                                  >a 2 hp electric motor will do about the same work as a 4 or 5 hp
                                  >IC engine You would not necessarily need a IC engine capable
                                  >of developing full power of the electric motor. The battery bank
                                  >could greatly increases the output of the electric motor for fairly
                                  >lone periods of time.
                                  >
                                  >I see several advantages to the system. First the motor starts
                                  >instantly every time when running off batteries. The shaft can be
                                  >parallel to the thrust line because the motor can be mounted
                                  >in the keel. You have a great deal more control of the motor
                                  >a low RPM. The IC motor does not have sit smack in the middle
                                  >of the boat just where you want to be it could be mounted to one
                                  >side under the seat and the batteries mounted on the opposite side
                                  >to balance the weight. Most of the time you could run on batteries
                                  >alone with no need of the IC engine. Some folks would probably
                                  >not even install and IC engine If all they needed and auxiliary for
                                  >was to clear the harbor and maneuver in tight spots.
                                  >
                                  >I see a few draw backs as well. Over all higher cost. More parts
                                  >make more places for problems and more cost of maintenance. Poorer
                                  >over all efficiency. If you had to make a long run on the auxiliary you
                                  >would probably need a bigger IC engine to get the same performance
                                  >as a conventional set up.
                                  >
                                  >Just some thoughts.
                                  >
                                  >Gordon
                                  >
                                  >Gordon Couger gcouger@...
                                  >
                                  >Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
                                  >405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
                                  >
                                  >

                                  ________________________________________________________________________
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                                • Lincoln Ross
                                  I d be skeptical. As I recall, 1200 watts is less than 2 hp, and that s presumably before mechanical and electrical losses. Now if they said 12,000 watts,
                                  Message 16 of 21 , May 3, 2000
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                                    I'd be skeptical. As I recall, 1200 watts is less than 2 hp, and
                                    that's presumably before mechanical and electrical losses. Now if
                                    they
                                    said 12,000 watts, maybe. And how do you get "regenerative feedback"?
                                    Wheels with brakes?

                                    --- In bolger@egroups.com, "edward haile" <ewhaile@h...> wrote:
                                    > Hi Gordon,
                                    >
                                    > Have you heard of "The Electric Wheel"? I picked up a brochure at
                                    the
                                    > Annapolis boat show in '97 or '98, and I am still not quite sure
                                    what it is.
                                    > I quote from the brochure:
                                    >
                                    > "The sailboat did 6k for 17-1/2 hrs (1200 watts burn rate) from a
                                    single
                                    > charge, with three solar panels and regenerative feedback." "The
                                    sailboat
                                    > did 2.7k with only one motor, demonstrating the redundant emergency
                                    > operation." The boat was an old 33' mahogany yacht. The principle
                                    seems to
                                    > be very high power at very low rpm. Weighs 50lbs.
                                    >
                                    > Ed Haile
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > >From: Gordon Couger <gcouger@r...>
                                    > >Reply-To: bolger@egroups.com
                                    > >To: bolger@e...
                                    > >Subject: [bolger] Electric auxiliary engine
                                    > >Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:08:52 -0500
                                    > >
                                    > >I was looking at this issue of MIB and noticing what an intrusion
                                    the
                                    > >engine compartment made in Bolger's small cruiser.
                                    > >
                                    > >Wheels started turning in my head, did a little math and concluded
                                    > >that a hybrid electric set up would be possible. Using 2 90 amp
                                    > >12 V alternators to produce about 120 amps would convert to
                                    > >about 2 hp. It might take a 8 or 10 hp engine to run them but
                                    > >a 2 hp electric motor will do about the same work as a 4 or 5 hp
                                    > >IC engine You would not necessarily need a IC engine capable
                                    > >of developing full power of the electric motor. The battery bank
                                    > >could greatly increases the output of the electric motor for fairly
                                    > >lone periods of time.
                                    > >
                                    > >I see several advantages to the system. First the motor starts
                                    > >instantly every time when running off batteries. The shaft can be
                                    > >parallel to the thrust line because the motor can be mounted
                                    > >in the keel. You have a great deal more control of the motor
                                    > >a low RPM. The IC motor does not have sit smack in the middle
                                    > >of the boat just where you want to be it could be mounted to one
                                    > >side under the seat and the batteries mounted on the opposite side
                                    > >to balance the weight. Most of the time you could run on batteries
                                    > >alone with no need of the IC engine. Some folks would probably
                                    > >not even install and IC engine If all they needed and auxiliary for
                                    > >was to clear the harbor and maneuver in tight spots.
                                    > >
                                    > >I see a few draw backs as well. Over all higher cost. More parts
                                    > >make more places for problems and more cost of maintenance. Poorer
                                    > >over all efficiency. If you had to make a long run on the
                                    auxiliary
                                    you
                                    > >would probably need a bigger IC engine to get the same performance
                                    > >as a conventional set up.
                                    > >
                                    > >Just some thoughts.
                                    > >
                                    > >Gordon
                                    > >
                                    > >Gordon Couger gcouger@c...
                                    > >
                                    > >Stillwater, OK www.couger.com/gcouger
                                    > >405 624-2855 GMT -6:00
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    ______________________________________________________________________
                                    __
                                    > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
                                    http://www.hotmail.com
                                  • edward haile
                                    Hi Lincoln Ross, I m not even at the skeptical stage. All I have is a brochure & claims that this is something unique and unmatched in boat propulsion. The
                                    Message 17 of 21 , May 3, 2000
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                                      Hi Lincoln Ross,

                                      I'm not even at the skeptical stage. All I have is a brochure & claims that
                                      this is something unique and unmatched in boat propulsion. "The Wheel is
                                      more powerful, energy efficient, reliable and carefree than any other gas or
                                      diesel engine, or electric motor of comparable horsepower in use today."
                                      They are up to something, I don't know what. I mentioned it to see if
                                      anybody out there knew more, and the subject came up. Regeneration they say
                                      comes from a spinning prop as the boat sails. That sort of thing, along with
                                      windvane and solar panels. My guess is it's a very efficient electric motor,
                                      two, infact, with 8 moving parts and no grease or oil. Maintenance free
                                      after 3 years in salt water. It says it relies on ten deepcycle batteries. A
                                      bit more than 50lbs, I'd say. But then IC engines don't include the weight
                                      of fuel tanks, do they? Anyhow, talk to Solomon Technologies in Benedict,
                                      Maryland 301-274-4479.

                                      Ed Haile
                                      >From: "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@...>
                                      >Reply-To: bolger@egroups.com
                                      >To: bolger@egroups.com
                                      >Subject: Re: [bolger] Electric auxiliary engine
                                      >Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:40:26 -0000
                                      >
                                      >I'd be skeptical. As I recall, 1200 watts is less than 2 hp, and
                                      >that's presumably before mechanical and electrical losses. Now if
                                      >they
                                      >said 12,000 watts, maybe. And how do you get "regenerative feedback"?
                                      >Wheels with brakes?
                                      >
                                      >--- In bolger@egroups.com, "edward haile" <ewhaile@h...> wrote:
                                      > > Hi Gordon,
                                      > >
                                      > > Have you heard of "The Electric Wheel"? I picked up a brochure at
                                      >the
                                      > > Annapolis boat show in '97 or '98, and I am still not quite sure
                                      >what it is.
                                      > > I quote from the brochure:
                                      > >
                                      > > "The sailboat did 6k for 17-1/2 hrs (1200 watts burn rate) from a
                                      >single
                                      > > charge, with three solar panels and regenerative feedback." "The
                                      >sailboat
                                      > > did 2.7k with only one motor, demonstrating the redundant emergency
                                      > > operation." The boat was an old 33' mahogany yacht. The principle
                                      >seems to
                                      > > be very high power at very low rpm. Weighs 50lbs.
                                      > >
                                      > > Ed Haile
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > >From: Gordon Couger <gcouger@r...>
                                      > > >Reply-To: bolger@egroups.com
                                      > > >To: bolger@e...
                                      > > >Subject: [bolger] Electric auxiliary engine
                                      > > >Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 20:08:52 -0500
                                      > > >
                                      > > >I was looking at this issue of MIB and noticing what an intrusion
                                      >the
                                      > > >engine compartment made in Bolger's small cruiser.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Wheels started turning in my head, did a little math and concluded
                                      > > >that a hybrid electric set up would be possible. Using 2 90 amp
                                      > > >12 V alternators to produce about 120 amps would convert to
                                      > > >about 2 hp. It might take a 8 or 10 hp engine to run them but
                                      > > >a 2 hp electric motor will do about the same work as a 4 or 5 hp
                                      > > >IC engine You would not necessarily need a IC engine capable
                                      > > >of developing full power of the electric motor. The battery bank
                                      > > >could greatly increases the output of the electric motor for fairly
                                      > > >lone periods of time.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >I see several advantages to the system. First the motor starts
                                      > > >instantly every time when running off batteries. The shaft can be
                                      > > >parallel to the thrust line because the motor can be mounted
                                      > > >in the keel. You have a great deal more control of the motor
                                      > > >a low RPM. The IC motor does not have sit smack in the middle
                                      > > >of the boat just where you want to be it could be mounted to one
                                      > > >side under the seat and the batteries mounted on the opposite side
                                      > > >to balance the weight. Most of the time you could run on batteries
                                      > > >alone with no need of the IC engine. Some folks would probably
                                      > > >not even install and IC engine If all they needed and auxiliary for
                                      > > >was to clear the harbor and maneuver in tight spots.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >I see a few draw backs as well. Over all higher cost. More parts
                                      > > >make more places for problems and more cost of maintenance. Poorer
                                      > > >over all efficiency. If you had to make a long run on the
                                      >auxiliary
                                      >you
                                      > > >would probably need a bigger IC engine to get the same performance
                                      > > >as a conventional set up.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Just some thoughts.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Gordon
                                      > > >
                                      > > >Gordon Couger gcouger@c...
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                                    • Gordon Couger
                                      From: edward haile To: ... that ... or ... say ... with ... motor, ... A ... As stated in the laws of
                                      Message 18 of 21 , May 3, 2000
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        From: "edward haile" <ewhaile@...>
                                        To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                                        >
                                        > I'm not even at the skeptical stage. All I have is a brochure & claims
                                        that
                                        > this is something unique and unmatched in boat propulsion. "The Wheel is
                                        > more powerful, energy efficient, reliable and carefree than any other gas
                                        or
                                        > diesel engine, or electric motor of comparable horsepower in use today."
                                        > They are up to something, I don't know what. I mentioned it to see if
                                        > anybody out there knew more, and the subject came up. Regeneration they
                                        say
                                        > comes from a spinning prop as the boat sails. That sort of thing, along
                                        with
                                        > windvane and solar panels. My guess is it's a very efficient electric
                                        motor,
                                        > two, infact, with 8 moving parts and no grease or oil. Maintenance free
                                        > after 3 years in salt water. It says it relies on ten deepcycle batteries.
                                        A
                                        > bit more than 50lbs, I'd say. But then IC engines don't include the weight
                                        > of fuel tanks, do they? Anyhow, talk to Solomon Technologies in Benedict,
                                        > Maryland 301-274-4479.
                                        >

                                        As stated in the laws of thermodymaics there is no free lunch. If you use
                                        wind
                                        chargers and the spinning prop you pay for it in increased drag. If the wind
                                        is strong enough to make hull speed it comes at a pretty small penalty.

                                        The difference in effencies of electric motors is less than 10 precent for
                                        the
                                        regular to the best so you don't get much that way.

                                        The only way to get distance is for the boat to be moving slowly so it
                                        doesn't
                                        make much drag.

                                        There is nothing wrong with that.

                                        There is a magnisum battery that produces electricity from a reaction with
                                        salt
                                        water. It is not a very good battery it has high internal resistance so the
                                        voltage
                                        falls very rapidly as current draw increases but I might be a way to store
                                        fuel
                                        for emergencies.The battery is consumed in the process. But it might be
                                        worth looking into if you use an electric aux insted of a hyred system.

                                        I think electric only aux motors would only be approiate in limited
                                        conditions.
                                        I think it would work great in Corpus Christy Bay and lousy if you were
                                        crusing the inter coastal canal and totaly sensless for off shore crusing.

                                        Gordon W5RED

                                        G. C. Couger gcouger@... Stillwater, OK
                                        www.couger.com/gcouger
                                        "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky
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