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Re: [bolger] Micro Progress

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  • Stan Muller
    Hi Rennie, Let me give you a, well done, on your progress, and also invite you to join the, Micro Owners Association. If you will, please drop me a note with
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 24, 2000
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      Hi Rennie,
      Let me give you a, well done, on your progress, and also invite you
      to join the, Micro Owners Association. If you will, please drop me a
      note with your name, boats name and type and I'll add you to the list.
      > This boat is voluminous!!!
      Now you are getting to the point that you will be able to understand,
      when I say the Micro is the only boat that I know of that is bigger on
      the inside than it is on the outside. ;-) With the navigator version, it
      will be even more so.
      Continued good luck on your building, Stan, Micro Tugger, Snow Goose.
    • David Jost
      Ronnie, I am in the same place (almost). The sides are assembled and the bulkheads are under construction. This is one big little boat! I have found a
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 24, 2000
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        Ronnie,
        I am in the same place (almost). The sides are assembled and the
        bulkheads are under construction. This is one big little boat! I
        have
        found a source of lead that is free! Dental offices or any office
        that
        does x-rays uses lead plate as a backing for the imaging. They throw
        out about 5 - 10 pounds a week. I have almost 100 lbs in just one
        week.
        Taylor Rental has the burners at $16 per day.
        I have decided to do the keel vertically like Peter L did. That
        will save having to lift it. I think I have a plan to roll the mold
        around on skids and leave the keel in its little cradle until
        assembly.
        No keel bolts though, I think that is overkill. If the keel falls
        off, I will dump the masts and motor home.

        David Jost
        "With all this rain in Boston, my neighbors think I am building an
        Ark."
      • Sakari Aaltonen
        David Jost wrote ... My builder s key says, about the keel, Use scrap lead with high antimony and other impurities for stiffness. Do you know whether the
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 24, 2000
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          David Jost wrote

          > I have
          > found a source of lead that is free! Dental offices or any office
          > that
          > does x-rays uses lead plate as a backing for the imaging. They throw
          > out about 5 - 10 pounds a week. I have almost 100 lbs in just one
          > week.

          My builder's key says, about the keel,

          "Use scrap lead with high antimony and other impurities
          for stiffness."

          Do you know whether the X-ray-protection lead contains these impurities?


          Thank you,
          Sakari Aaltonen
        • Stan Muller
          ... Hi Sakari, It is my understanding that it does not. Any lead used in or for x-ray shielding is pure lead. A simple test of purity of lead it to try to
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 24, 2000
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            > My builder's key says, about the keel,
            >
            > "Use scrap lead with high antimony and other impurities
            > for stiffness."
            >
            > Do you know whether the X-ray-protection lead contains these impurities?
            >
            >
            Hi Sakari,
            It is my understanding that it does not. Any lead used in or for
            x-ray shielding is pure lead. A simple test of purity of lead it to try
            to scratch it with a fingernail. if you can make a mark, you can be
            pretty sure it is near being pure lead. The cheapest way to stiffen it
            would be to add wheel weights.
            I hope this helps, Stan, Micro Tugger, Snow Goose.
          • Rennie Archibald
            Great idea on the dental source. Do you have to melt them? Rennie ... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 24, 2000
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              Great idea on the dental source. Do you have to melt them?

              Rennie


              >From: "David Jost" <djost@...>
              >Reply-To: bolger@egroups.com
              >To: bolger@egroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Progress
              >Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:03:04 -0000
              >
              >Ronnie,
              > I am in the same place (almost). The sides are assembled and the
              >bulkheads are under construction. This is one big little boat! I
              >have
              >found a source of lead that is free! Dental offices or any office
              >that
              >does x-rays uses lead plate as a backing for the imaging. They throw
              >out about 5 - 10 pounds a week. I have almost 100 lbs in just one
              >week.
              >Taylor Rental has the burners at $16 per day.
              > I have decided to do the keel vertically like Peter L did. That
              >will save having to lift it. I think I have a plan to roll the mold
              >around on skids and leave the keel in its little cradle until
              >assembly.
              >No keel bolts though, I think that is overkill. If the keel falls
              >off, I will dump the masts and motor home.
              >
              >David Jost
              > "With all this rain in Boston, my neighbors think I am building an
              >Ark."
              >
              >

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            • Jeff Gilbert
              I think you are well covered, but like concrete, you cant put too much reinforcing in. Bronze nails? I d better look back at the old postings. The only keel
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 24, 2000
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                I think you are well covered, but like concrete,
                you cant put too much reinforcing in.
                Bronze nails? I'd better look back at the old postings.
                The only keel Ive ever been involved in simply had long SS bolts
                (specially made and very expensive back then, 1978) set
                in steel plates set in the melt. It was for a 40 footer and poured
                in a clay lined hole in the ground!
                We also threw handfulls of 6 inch nails into
                the melt. Some lift weights and metal punchings went in too.
                Its still fine, 22 years on.
                Wooden Boat recently had an article on a keel pour.
                Hope the job goes well,
                Jeff Gilbert
                ps The Dutch builder (remains nameless) above decided
                the keel was too heavy and applied his own bush
                mathematics to the situation. The resultant keel was
                a ton or so under spec. I felt too young to comment.
                Of course the boat floated dangerously, sticking out of the
                water like the proverbial appendages of dogs. We finished
                up filling the (ferro yacht's) bilge with concrete made from
                metal punchings. We carted the materials out in a 7ft pram
                and mixed in buckets on the dangerously canting deck.
                If you ever feel like trying this as a weekend activity,
                lie down and wait for the urge to go away!
                (Or have a bit of faith in your designer, his/her reputationin
                rides on that keel & in my (painful!) experience its not
                to be fiddled with by amateurs who "think it looks a bit hefty".



                >David Jost <djost@...>
                >writes wrt lead hardness/keel construction...
                >.....snipped .......
                >I will add a large amount of scrap lead from old diver's belts
                >(150lbs), and a couple of small boat anchors and fishing weights
                >(60lbs) and the rest will be from the dental offices. I hope this
                >is stiff enough. It is going to be encapsulated in glassed plywood, so
                > I do not see what the difference is going to be, unless I whack into
                > something going sideways! I could always throw a couple of
                >handfuls of wheel weights into the mix as well.
                >Any opinions on this?





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              • David Jost
                Yes, you have to melt it. It is not that difficult, see Peter Lenihan s web site. I must have an older set of plans. There is no mention of lead hardness
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 25, 2000
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                  Yes, you have to melt it. It is not that difficult, see Peter
                  Lenihan's web site.
                  I must have an older set of plans. There is no mention of lead
                  hardness and amount of antimony in it. I have heard some builders
                  complain that the lead is too hard to get the bronze nails through,
                  wouldn't this be a problem with too much antimony?
                  I will add a large amount of scrap lead from old diver's belts
                  (150lbs), and a couple of small boat anchors and fishing weights
                  (60lbs) and the rest will be from the dental offices. I hope this
                  is
                  stiff enough. It is going to be encapsulated in glassed plywood, so
                  I
                  do not see what the difference is going to be, unless I whack into
                  something going sideways! I could always through in a couple of
                  handfuls of wheel weights into the mix as well.
                  Any opinions on this?
                • Clyde S. Wisner
                  Antimony was added to type metal alloy to make it harder while keeping the melting point low enough for casting machines (monotype and linotype) and copper was
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 26, 2000
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                    Antimony was added to type metal alloy to make it harder while keeping the
                    melting point low enough for casting machines (monotype and linotype) and
                    copper was added to foundry made type where temperature was not as much
                    concern. The point was to make the type last longer. If tin and antimony are
                    in wheel weights, then my guess is that they were made from type metal. Tin
                    and antimony content in type metal is very small. I don't think it should be
                    a concern in casting a keel. Clyde

                    David Jost wrote:

                    > Yes, you have to melt it. It is not that difficult, see Peter
                    > Lenihan's web site.
                    > I must have an older set of plans. There is no mention of lead
                    > hardness and amount of antimony in it. I have heard some builders
                    > complain that the lead is too hard to get the bronze nails through,
                    > wouldn't this be a problem with too much antimony?
                    > I will add a large amount of scrap lead from old diver's belts
                    > (150lbs), and a couple of small boat anchors and fishing weights
                    > (60lbs) and the rest will be from the dental offices. I hope this
                    > is
                    > stiff enough. It is going to be encapsulated in glassed plywood, so
                    > I
                    > do not see what the difference is going to be, unless I whack into
                    > something going sideways! I could always through in a couple of
                    > handfuls of wheel weights into the mix as well.
                    > Any opinions on this?
                    >
                    >
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                  • peter lenihan
                    Hello David Jost, I would like to bring to your attention that I do not have a web site.However,if one goes to the wonderful DUCKWORKS MAGAZINE site,you will
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 26, 2000
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                      Hello David Jost,
                      I would like to bring to your attention that I do not have a web
                      site.However,if one goes to the wonderful DUCKWORKS MAGAZINE site,you
                      will find amongst the "articles" section my pictoral essay on how I
                      poured my MICRO keel.Chuck Leinweber did a wonderful job of
                      deciphering my scribbled notes and scanning my pictures!!
                      Regarding your keel,I would be most concerned simply about
                      achieving the correct weight as presecribed by the designer and
                      ensuring that the finished keel remains in one cohesive mass as
                      apposed to a loose mix of assorted of weights/metals(lead
                      anchor?).But this is just my two Canadian cents worth of opinion!:-)
                      Best of luck!
                      Peter Lenihan
                      Montréal,Québec





                      --- In bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                      > Yes, you have to melt it. It is not that difficult, see
                      Peter
                      > Lenihan's web site.
                      > I must have an older set of plans. There is no mention of lead
                      > hardness and amount of antimony in it. I have heard some builders
                      > complain that the lead is too hard to get the bronze nails
                      through,
                      > wouldn't this be a problem with too much antimony?
                      > I will add a large amount of scrap lead from old diver's
                      belts
                      > (150lbs), and a couple of small boat anchors and fishing weights
                      > (60lbs) and the rest will be from the dental offices. I hope this
                      > is
                      > stiff enough. It is going to be encapsulated in glassed plywood, so
                      > I
                      > do not see what the difference is going to be, unless I whack into
                      > something going sideways! I could always through in a couple of
                      > handfuls of wheel weights into the mix as well.
                      > Any opinions on this?
                    • David Jost
                      Thanks Peter, I will bookmark the Duckworks Site. I never pay attention to where the information is coming from, I just knew the information was there
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 27, 2000
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                        Thanks Peter,
                        I will bookmark the Duckworks Site. I never pay attention to
                        where the information is coming from, I just knew the information was
                        there someplace.
                        To be more specific about the process. I have a small foundry
                        that I plan to melt everything then pour into the mold in a similar
                        fashion to how you did it. I am tempted to put keel bolts in
                        although
                        the plans do not call for it. I am just a little leary about hitting
                        a
                        rock and losing the keel in the process. Although, the floor would
                        probably break as well, making the whole thing a moot point.

                        David Jost
                      • peter lenihan
                        Hello David, I too was somewhat pre-occupied with the ultimate strenght of the MICRO keel assembly in a grounding.This was one of the prime reasons why I chose
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 28, 2000
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                          Hello David,
                          I too was somewhat pre-occupied with the ultimate strenght of
                          the MICRO keel assembly in a grounding.This was one of the prime
                          reasons why I chose to go with a 1/2" bottom,internal keelson and
                          bolts up through the whole lot.It also allowed me to dabble just
                          briefly with some"traditional"building methods.Not exactly as per the
                          plans and I am sure that many could probably produce reams of numbers
                          to demonstrate that as per plan,the keel assembly is plenty strong.I
                          am no expert in boat designing or engineering by anyones
                          definition,but the peace-of-mind factor that I achieved has been
                          priceless as I routinely run my MICRO up various beaches and these
                          not always of the soft and sandy variety!Furthermore,where I sail
                          (St.Lawrence River) I knew that contending constantly with a current
                          would eventually produce a situation whereby with a falling wind,I
                          could very well be carried along sideways and perhaps experience a
                          side impact to the keel........So I beefed up the whole affair,paying
                          careful attention to respect Mr.Bolger's keel profile and ballast
                          location and weight.Six seasons later,I have experienced no grief
                          from my keel and remain a very happy camper!
                          Best Regards,
                          Sincerely,
                          Peter Lenihan
                          Montréal,Québec





                          --- In bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                          > Thanks Peter,
                          > I will bookmark the Duckworks Site. I never pay attention to
                          > where the information is coming from, I just knew the information
                          was
                          > there someplace.
                          > To be more specific about the process. I have a small
                          foundry
                          > that I plan to melt everything then pour into the mold in a
                          similar
                          > fashion to how you did it. I am tempted to put keel bolts in
                          > although
                          > the plans do not call for it. I am just a little leary about
                          hitting
                          > a
                          > rock and losing the keel in the process. Although, the floor
                          would
                          > probably break as well, making the whole thing a moot point.
                          >
                          > David Jost
                        • David Jost
                          Peter, I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as being careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting the keel and building it
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 29, 2000
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                            Peter,
                            I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as being
                            careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting the
                            keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things happening
                            for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will install 3
                            bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
                            provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood dowels
                            were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the exterior
                            sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
                            How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did you
                            use for caulking around the bolt holes?

                            David Jost
                            " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2 frames,
                            and all spars and sails."
                          • peter lenihan
                            - Hello David, The nuts,on the inside,come up through the keelson and then through 3/4 by 4 inch square pads,followed by two washers.Thats it.As each keel
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 29, 2000
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                              -
                              Hello David,
                              The nuts,on the inside,come up through the keelson and then
                              through 3/4" by 4 inch square pads,followed by two washers.Thats
                              it.As each keel bolt was run up into the boat,I made sure that the
                              bolt was well lathered with SIKA-FLEX along it's whole lenght.Since I
                              had already made recesses in the lead for the bottom nuts,it was an
                              easy matter to snug up the lot from inside the boat without needing
                              anyone holding the nuts under the boat.
                              Continued success with your project!
                              Peter Lenihan
                              Montreal,Quebec



                              - In
                              bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                              > Peter,
                              > I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as
                              being
                              > careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting the
                              > keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things
                              happening
                              > for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will install
                              3
                              > bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
                              > provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood
                              dowels
                              > were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the exterior
                              > sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
                              > How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did
                              you
                              > use for caulking around the bolt holes?
                              >
                              > David Jost
                              > " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2
                              frames,
                              > and all spars and sails."
                            • David Jost
                              I just checked the chart of metals/galvanic corrosion index. I will stay with Stainless steel threaded rod instead of the bronze as planned. too bad, I have
                              Message 14 of 19 , Apr 30, 2000
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                                I just checked the chart of metals/galvanic corrosion index. I will
                                stay with Stainless steel threaded rod instead of the bronze as
                                planned. too bad, I have a garage full of old bronze rod from a
                                neighbor that used to make the stuff at a foundry in Connecticut.
                                These bronze rods are at least 50 years old and were used to hold up
                                garden fencing at an oceanside garden in Harwich. They are still as
                                good as new after 50 years of horrendous salt encrusted air. The
                                table says that lead and bronze are not as compatible as stainless
                                and
                                lead. I hope that I can find 316 type stainless available.
                                >

                                > >
                                - In
                                > bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                                > > Peter,
                                > > I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as
                                > being
                                > > careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting
                                the
                                > > keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things
                                > happening
                                > > for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will
                                install
                                > 3
                                > > bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
                                > > provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood
                                > dowels
                                > > were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the
                                exterior
                                > > sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
                                > > How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did
                                > you
                                > > use for caulking around the bolt holes?
                                > >
                                > > David Jost
                                > > " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2
                                > frames,
                                > > and all spars and sails."
                              • Sakari Aaltonen
                                ... Which chart did you check? I checked the ones in Steward s Boatbuilding Manual and Gerr s The Nature of Boats . Both show stainless steel in *two*
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 1, 2000
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                                  David Jost wrote:

                                  > I just checked the chart of metals/galvanic corrosion index. I will
                                  > stay with Stainless steel threaded rod instead of the bronze as
                                  > planned. too bad, I have a garage full of old bronze rod from a
                                  > neighbor that used to make the stuff at a foundry in Connecticut.
                                  > These bronze rods are at least 50 years old and were used to hold up
                                  > garden fencing at an oceanside garden in Harwich. They are still as
                                  > good as new after 50 years of horrendous salt encrusted air. The
                                  > table says that lead and bronze are not as compatible as stainless
                                  > and
                                  > lead. I hope that I can find 316 type stainless available.

                                  Which chart did you check? I checked the ones in Steward's
                                  "Boatbuilding Manual" and Gerr's "The Nature of Boats".
                                  Both show stainless steel in *two* places. This comes about
                                  because stainless steel has two states, active and passive.
                                  If it is in (steady) contact with oxygen (air or water), its
                                  state is passive and it is more compatible with lead than
                                  bronze. However, if there is no oxygen, like inside a keel,
                                  then stainless steel becomes active, and is much less compatible
                                  than bronze. That is, it will corrode (the keel lead will
                                  eat it, so to speak). This applies to type 316, too.


                                  Sakari Aaltonen
                                • david
                                  David, Tradition and experience mediate against your choice. Bronze has been used successfully in keelbolts for centuries. Stainless steel has a checkered
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 1, 2000
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                                    David,
                                    Tradition and experience mediate against your choice. Bronze has
                                    been used successfully in keelbolts for centuries. Stainless steel has
                                    a checkered history in this application. As I understand it, bronze is
                                    more "noble" than lead, and the lead keel will slowly waste away,
                                    very slowly, over decades (it's a lot of lead), in the presence of the
                                    small amount of bronze. The bronze rod will (in theory) not be
                                    affected. With stainless steel, the rod, buried in the keel and with no
                                    access to oxygen to maintain a stainless surface, will corrode rapidly
                                    over a few seasons. In any case, make sure that whatever keelbolts
                                    you use are easily removable for inspection and replacement, as
                                    wierd things happen to them, and losing your ballast can ruin your day,
                                    david

                                    David Jost wrote:

                                    > I just checked the chart of metals/galvanic corrosion index. I will
                                    > stay with Stainless steel threaded rod instead of the bronze as
                                    > planned. too bad, I have a garage full of old bronze rod from a
                                    > neighbor that used to make the stuff at a foundry in Connecticut.
                                    > These bronze rods are at least 50 years old and were used to hold up
                                    > garden fencing at an oceanside garden in Harwich. They are still as
                                    > good as new after 50 years of horrendous salt encrusted air. The
                                    > table says that lead and bronze are not as compatible as stainless
                                    > and
                                    > lead. I hope that I can find 316 type stainless available.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > > >
                                    > - In
                                    > > bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                                    > > > Peter,
                                    > > > I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as
                                    > > being
                                    > > > careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting
                                    > the
                                    > > > keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things
                                    > > happening
                                    > > > for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will
                                    > install
                                    > > 3
                                    > > > bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
                                    > > > provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood
                                    > > dowels
                                    > > > were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the
                                    > exterior
                                    > > > sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
                                    > > > How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did
                                    > > you
                                    > > > use for caulking around the bolt holes?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > David Jost
                                    > > > " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2
                                    > > frames,
                                    > > > and all spars and sails."
                                    >
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                                  • David Jost
                                    That certainly explains a lot! I will stick with bronze rod (since I already have quite a bit of it). I certainly can see why stainless would corrode under
                                    Message 17 of 19 , May 2, 2000
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                                      That certainly explains a lot! I will stick with bronze rod (since I
                                      already have quite a bit of it). I certainly can see why stainless
                                      would corrode under such circumstances. I would rather have the
                                      ballast corrode than the fastenings. I had an old Herreshoff day
                                      sailor that had bronze fastenings throughout. They were still in
                                      excellent condition despite 30 years of immersion in salt water. The
                                      keel on that boat was starting to corrode a bit, mainly due to the
                                      interaction of the copper bottom paint with the lead. This was
                                      shortly
                                      after the ban on paints with TFB in them. (I think that's the
                                      correct
                                      name)

                                      I now understand how stainless cannot be effective in an anaerobic
                                      environment. It needs to be exposed to the air to form its
                                      protective
                                      coating.

                                      Thanks for the input.
                                      David Jost
                                    • Bernie Wolfard
                                      I think the idea of dabbling in traditional boat building methods is the only valid reason for bolting a MICRO keel. There is a huge downside to this in that
                                      Message 18 of 19 , May 2, 2000
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                                        I think the idea of dabbling in "traditional" boat building
                                        methods
                                        is the only valid reason for bolting a MICRO keel. There is a huge
                                        downside to this in that it is generally considered a bad idea to
                                        drill holes in the bottom of a boat!
                                        As designed, a MICRO keel will pull the bottom off the boat before it
                                        lets go. This has been proved in personal experience as well in
                                        countless numbers of MICRO'S out there with keels attached as per
                                        plans. MICRO'S keel structure is a true composite, only different
                                        from high tech airplanes in that the composites interior foam is
                                        replaced with lead. It is as strong or stronger but with the mass
                                        make it a keel instead of a wing.
                                        That said, the idea of using ½" plywood on MICRO'S bottom is
                                        well
                                        founded. She will not be worst for the weight and be much strong,
                                        especially in taking the ground.

                                        --- In bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                                        > Peter,
                                        > I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as
                                        being
                                        > careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting the
                                        > keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things
                                        happening
                                        > for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will install
                                        3
                                        > bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
                                        > provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood
                                        dowels
                                        > were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the exterior
                                        > sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
                                        > How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did
                                        you
                                        > use for caulking around the bolt holes?
                                        >
                                        > David Jost
                                        > " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2
                                        frames,
                                        > and all spars and sails."
                                      • peter lenihan
                                        Hi Bernie, The huge downside which you refer to,is ONLY true if one forgets to plug/fill the holes one has drilled with something useful! :-D Warm Regards,
                                        Message 19 of 19 , May 2, 2000
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Bernie,
                                          The"huge downside"which you refer to,is ONLY true if one forgets
                                          to plug/fill the holes one has drilled with something useful! :-D
                                          Warm Regards,

                                          Peter Lenihan,itching to begin his seventh season with his MICRO
                                          which looks as beautiful and strong as the day she was launched,off
                                          the shores of the St.Lawrence......316 stainless keelbolts and
                                          all.....




                                          --- In bolger@egroups.com, "Bernie Wolfard" <berniew@n...> wrote:
                                          > I think the idea of dabbling in "traditional" boat building
                                          > methods
                                          > is the only valid reason for bolting a MICRO keel. There is a huge
                                          > downside to this in that it is generally considered a bad idea to
                                          > drill holes in the bottom of a boat!
                                          > As designed, a MICRO keel will pull the bottom off the boat before
                                          it
                                          > lets go. This has been proved in personal experience as well in
                                          > countless numbers of MICRO'S out there with keels attached as per
                                          > plans. MICRO'S keel structure is a true composite, only different
                                          > from high tech airplanes in that the composites interior foam is
                                          > replaced with lead. It is as strong or stronger but with the mass
                                          > make it a keel instead of a wing.
                                          > That said, the idea of using ½" plywood on MICRO'S bottom is
                                          > well
                                          > founded. She will not be worst for the weight and be much strong,
                                          > especially in taking the ground.
                                          >
                                          > --- In bolger@egroups.com, "David Jost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                                          > > Peter,
                                          > > I do not think that this is so much being pre-occupied, as
                                          > being
                                          > > careful. I think you have the correct idea in through bolting the
                                          > > keel and building it vertical. I can see only good things
                                          > happening
                                          > > for what amount to very little extra expense here. I will install
                                          > 3
                                          > > bronze keel bolts that will run the length of the mold, and will
                                          > > provied recesses for the external nuts. I think that the wood
                                          > dowels
                                          > > were a great idea! I think I will also continue to use the
                                          exterior
                                          > > sheething as well since I already have the material on hand.
                                          > > How did you back up the nuts on the interior? And, What did
                                          > you
                                          > > use for caulking around the bolt holes?
                                          > >
                                          > > David Jost
                                          > > " glorious in Boston today, "Firefly" now has two sides, 2
                                          > frames,
                                          > > and all spars and sails."
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