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Re: [bolger] Re: More dipping lugger (probably too much...)

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  • Harry James
    CC me also please welshman@ptialaska.net HJ
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
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      CC me also please

      welshman@...

      HJ

      gbship wrote:

      >Reed & Bruce:
      >The boat is a custom design from Bolger. It's basically a doubled
      >Gypsy, about twice as long and not quite twice as wide. Originally it
      >had a deep fixed fin keel; it now has a shorter keel with wings.
      >
      >On reefing, lines are rigged at the luff and leech like conventional
      >jiffy reefing lines, only they are led through turning blocks at the
      >mast, and then back to the cockpit. There's a couple cleats at the
      >mast where the boom downhaul the block (I use three sets of double
      >blocks) have a rope tail and are fastened to those cleats. It might
      >be better to fastened them to the boom at the pivot point, but that's
      >a lot of blocks on a not very wide boom. BTW, the reefing lines led
      >this way become the boom downhaul when the sail is reefed. The third
      >reef is my substitute for a security blanket. It seems to add about
      >triple the tendency to foul things up over just having two reefs, but
      >if the lines are led carefully, it works. There are line stoppers and
      >a #20 Barlow winch at the aft end of the cabin top to help handle the
      >lines.
      >
      >If you like, I can e-mail some pictures of the reefing setup.
      >
      >Gary Blankenship
      >Tallahassee, FL
      >
      >
      >--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed48" <captreed@s...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >> The boat is still rigged as a
      >>
      >>
      >>>balanced lugger, and the sail can be raised, lowered and up to
      >>>
      >>>
      >>triple
      >>
      >>
      >>>reefed from the cockpit.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>Hi Gary,
      >>
      >>Not too much at all. Fascinating, actually.
      >>
      >>I was curious how you managed to reef the balanced lug from the
      >>cockpit.
      >>
      >>Reed
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Bolger rules!!!
      >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
      >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
      >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
      >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >.
      >
      >
      >
    • captreed48
      Hi Gary, Thank you for the explanation. I had 3 jiffy reefs on a balanced lug and the boom was crowded. One thing I did was put the forward attachment point
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
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        Hi Gary,

        Thank you for the explanation. I had 3 jiffy reefs on a balanced lug
        and the boom was crowded. One thing I did was put the forward
        attachment point for the third reef aft along the boom so the COE
        didn't move forward with that reef.

        I've changed the rig to a standing lug that allows roller reefing.
        Since the luff moves aft when reefing no lee helm developes.

        Your lug nut, Reed
      • gbship
        Nels: I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel Travails
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 3, 2005
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          Nels:
          I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel
          Travails< for Duckworks Magazine (www.duckworksmagazine.com, and you
          can find it in the December 2004 archives, although I think you have
          to be a member to read it. If you not, I'll copy it and send it to
          you.
          In a nutshell, it worked, but was complicated to install and get the
          angle of the wings set properly. It was neat. the keel pivoted up
          like a centerboard, while the wings rotated to remain parallel to the
          bottom. Unfortunately a key part failed, and the wings are now fixed
          in place. The keel still swing up, but the wings obviiously create
          more drag the more the keel is lifted. I joke that I've got the only
          sailboat with brakes. As originally installed, you could sail with
          the keel lifted and you could use it to adjust helm balanced. Now its
          only raised to get in and out of shallow channels, and under power.

          Bolger told me this was a prototype effort, and he intended to use my
          experience to include a swing wing, with the swiveling wings, on the
          Insolent 60, but I've never seen drawings of any information on that
          design, so I don't know if that was done. If anyone has seen plans
          for the Insolent 60, let me know!

          Gary Blankenship

          > We also be interested in you experience with the swing wing keel
          and
          > how complicated it was to build and use and anything else you would
          > like to share about the boat and it's capabilites, and how
          seaworthy
          > and effecient it is.
          >
          > I have always been fascinated by the idea of such a simple design
          > having such potential.
          >
          > Thanks, Nels
        • Harry James
          I know two on this list that really want to see them:) HJ
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 3, 2005
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            I know two on this list that really want to see them:)

            HJ

            gbship wrote:

            >Nels:
            >I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel
            >Travails< for Duckworks Magazine (www.duckworksmagazine.com, and you
            >can find it in the December 2004 archives, although I think you have
            >to be a member to read it. If you not, I'll copy it and send it to
            >you.
            >In a nutshell, it worked, but was complicated to install and get the
            >angle of the wings set properly. It was neat. the keel pivoted up
            >like a centerboard, while the wings rotated to remain parallel to the
            >bottom. Unfortunately a key part failed, and the wings are now fixed
            >in place. The keel still swing up, but the wings obviiously create
            >more drag the more the keel is lifted. I joke that I've got the only
            >sailboat with brakes. As originally installed, you could sail with
            >the keel lifted and you could use it to adjust helm balanced. Now its
            >only raised to get in and out of shallow channels, and under power.
            >
            >Bolger told me this was a prototype effort, and he intended to use my
            >experience to include a swing wing, with the swiveling wings, on the
            >Insolent 60, but I've never seen drawings of any information on that
            >design, so I don't know if that was done. If anyone has seen plans
            >for the Insolent 60, let me know!
            >
            >Gary Blankenship
            >
            >
            >
            >>We also be interested in you experience with the swing wing keel
            >>
            >>
            >and
            >
            >
            >>how complicated it was to build and use and anything else you would
            >>like to share about the boat and it's capabilites, and how
            >>
            >>
            >seaworthy
            >
            >
            >>and effecient it is.
            >>
            >>I have always been fascinated by the idea of such a simple design
            >>having such potential.
            >>
            >>Thanks, Nels
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Bolger rules!!!
            >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
            >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
            >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
            >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >.
            >
            >
            >
          • Nels
            ... you ... have ... Hi Gary, For some reason I missed reading the entire December issue! Thanks for the great article and also the updates. I enquired quite
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 3, 2005
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbship" <gbship@c...> wrote:
              >
              > Nels:
              > I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel
              > Travails< for Duckworks Magazine (www.duckworksmagazine.com, and
              you
              > can find it in the December 2004 archives, although I think you
              have
              > to be a member to read it. If you not, I'll copy it and send it to
              > you.

              Hi Gary,

              For some reason I missed reading the entire December issue! Thanks
              for the great article and also the updates.

              I enquired quite awhile back about installing a small swing wing keel
              in a Long Micro salient keel to give it some added offhsore
              capability while not intruding on the cabin space. I was informed
              that that it was most likly to add nothing to a hull of that shape
              and hull speed. It is a keel designed for a fast narrow hull like
              yours.

              Great name for a boat!

              Cheers, Nels
            • Susan Davis
              ... I have a preliminary draft of the plans; scans of the plan view and interior layout are in the Photos section on Bolger4. -- Sue -- (I read your article
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 5, 2005
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                > If anyone has seen plans for the Insolent 60, let me know!

                I have a preliminary draft of the plans; scans of the plan view and
                interior layout are in the Photos section on Bolger4.

                -- Sue --
                (I read your article and enjoyed it very much, btw.)

                --
                Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
              • Gary Blankenship
                Susan: I signed up for Bolger4, but can t find the Insolent scans either in the photos or the files. Am I missing something or are they in a folder titled
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 5, 2005
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                  Susan:
                  I signed up for Bolger4, but can't find the Insolent scans either in the photos or the files. Am I missing something or are they in a folder titled something elese?

                  Gary

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Susan Davis
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 3:27 AM
                  Subject: [bolger] Swing Wing, was Re: More dipping lugger (probably too much...)



                  > If anyone has seen plans for the Insolent 60, let me know!

                  I have a preliminary draft of the plans; scans of the plan view and
                  interior layout are in the Photos section on Bolger4.

                  -- Sue --
                  (I read your article and enjoyed it very much, btw.)

                  --
                  Susan Davis <futabachan@...>





                  Bolger rules!!!
                  - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                  - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


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                • Susan Davis
                  ... Eep! Sorry... they re on Bolger3. -- Susan Davis
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 5, 2005
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                    Gary:
                    > I signed up for Bolger4, but can't find the Insolent scans either
                    > in the photos or the files. Am I missing something or are they in
                    > a folder titled something else?

                    Eep! Sorry... they're on Bolger3.

                    --
                    Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
                  • Bruce Hallman
                    http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0 Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator, our first overnight trip. Lots of fun, some calm
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 6, 2005
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                      http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0

                      Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
                      our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
                      and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
                      reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.

                      I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
                      of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
                      to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
                      just wasted effort on such small hull.

                      Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
                      the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
                      Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
                      last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
                      to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
                      'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
                      Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
                      de-facto Bolger emissary.

                      Susan, David prepare yourself.

                      The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
                      simply huge inside, and when you get out and
                      compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
                      much tiny, 'Micro'.

                      I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
                      having anything to measure against, it is hard
                      to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
                      under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
                      a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
                      Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
                      at all.
                    • dbaldnz
                      Great Stuff Bruce! I like that salty shot looking aft with some nice heel. Windscreen wipers for the front next? She looks fine sitting in the berth next to
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 7, 2005
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                        Great Stuff Bruce!
                        I like that salty shot looking aft with some nice heel.
                        Windscreen wipers for the front next?
                        She looks fine sitting in the berth next to the other yachts.
                        I got everything set last saturday, wife organised to take sailing
                        photos, loaded the gear in the car, got there and guess
                        what?....painted ships on a painted sea. No wind at all for the rest
                        of the day, so we went home again.
                        DonB
                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                        > http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0
                        >
                        > Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
                        > our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
                        > and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
                        > reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
                        >
                        > I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
                        > of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
                        > to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
                        > just wasted effort on such small hull.
                        >
                        > Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
                        > the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
                        > Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
                        > last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
                        > to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
                        > 'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
                        > Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
                        > de-facto Bolger emissary.
                        >
                        > Susan, David prepare yourself.
                        >
                        > The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
                        > simply huge inside, and when you get out and
                        > compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
                        > much tiny, 'Micro'.
                        >
                        > I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
                        > having anything to measure against, it is hard
                        > to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
                        > under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
                        > a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
                        > Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
                        > at all.
                      • woofers94401
                        Bruce, Looks like saturday was a nice day on the bay. Can you shed a little more light on some of the comments you got about your boat and you think the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 7, 2005
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                          Bruce,
                          Looks like saturday was a nice day on the bay. Can you shed a little
                          more light on some of the comments you got about your boat and you
                          think the impression people had of it?

                          Greg


                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                          > http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0
                          >
                          > Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
                          > our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
                          > and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
                          > reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
                          >
                          > I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
                          > of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
                          > to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
                          > just wasted effort on such small hull.
                          >
                          > Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
                          > the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
                          > Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
                          > last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
                          > to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
                          > 'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
                          > Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
                          > de-facto Bolger emissary.
                          >
                          > Susan, David prepare yourself.
                          >
                          > The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
                          > simply huge inside, and when you get out and
                          > compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
                          > much tiny, 'Micro'.
                          >
                          > I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
                          > having anything to measure against, it is hard
                          > to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
                          > under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
                          > a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
                          > Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
                          > at all.
                        • Bruce Hallman
                          ... Best weekend of the year, so far! Calm in the morning and 10-15 kt westerlies in the afternoons 65 deg F. ... Curiosity more than anything else.
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 8, 2005
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                            > Bruce,
                            > Looks like saturday was a nice day on the bay.

                            Best weekend of the year, so far! Calm in the morning
                            and 10-15 kt westerlies in the afternoons 65 deg F.

                            > Can you shed a little more light on some of the
                            > comments you got about your boat and you
                            > think the impression people had of it?
                            > Greg

                            Curiosity more than anything else. Basically
                            everybody starts out with the question: "Did
                            you build it?" Followed by a long series of
                            other questions, that after a dozen people
                            become repetitive.

                            Some people want to know 'how old' it is.
                            A certain subset of the group wants to know
                            how the odd looking sail rig works. Lots of
                            others are amazed at the glasshouse comfy
                            cabin on a sailboat. Many others guess that it
                            must have a centerboard, and are skeptical
                            that it can function without one.

                            Considering the fact that 99% of the boats I
                            see tend to be very much similar to each
                            other, I suspect mostly their owners are
                            'conformists' and my boat is definately not
                            that! So, I am guessing that many who do
                            not approach me probably view me and my
                            boat as a "bit odd".

                            Generally, the people that did have the initiative
                            to approach me seemed to have a favorable
                            impression of the boat, and all these people
                            were friendly! That is a welcome thing! (most the
                            time), except at times when you are in a hurry
                            trying to get work done to beat the tide, etc.,
                            while a small crowd gathers wanting to talk.
                          • Peter Lenihan
                            ... Don t worry Bruce,you ll get used to it...trust me :-) Sincerely, Peter Lenihan,ex-Micro owner/builder who finally sold his Micro because he couldn t take
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 8, 2005
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                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                              > > Curiosity more than anything else.

                              Don't worry Bruce,you'll get used to it...trust me :-)

                              Sincerely,

                              Peter Lenihan,ex-Micro owner/builder who finally sold his Micro
                              because he couldn't take the questions anymore..........:-D
                            • m_doles
                              You ve probably mentioned it before,but what is the head room on your navigator?
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 9, 2005
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                                You've probably mentioned it before,but what is the head room on
                                your navigator?


                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                                > http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0
                                >
                                > Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
                                > our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
                                > and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
                                > reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
                                >
                                > I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
                                > of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
                                > to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
                                > just wasted effort on such small hull.
                                >
                                > Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
                                > the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
                                > Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
                                > last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
                                > to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
                                > 'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
                                > Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
                                > de-facto Bolger emissary.
                                >
                                > Susan, David prepare yourself.
                                >
                                > The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
                                > simply huge inside, and when you get out and
                                > compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
                                > much tiny, 'Micro'.
                                >
                                > I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
                                > having anything to measure against, it is hard
                                > to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
                                > under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
                                > a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
                                > Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
                                > at all.
                              • Bruce Hallman
                                ... There is about 3 square feet of floor that has 5 feet 8 1/2 inches of head room. I am six feet tall, and find that plenty adaquate for standing and
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 9, 2005
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                                  > You've probably mentioned it before,but what is the head room on
                                  > your navigator?


                                  There is about 3 square feet of floor that has
                                  5 feet 8 1/2 inches of head room. I am six feet tall,
                                  and find that plenty adaquate for standing and pulling
                                  up my pants, etc..

                                  Also, the roof hatch slides wide open, and
                                  gives unlimited headroom, when open.

                                  The headroom above the berths is very generous
                                  and non-claustrophobic. I don't think I can touch
                                  the ceiling with my hand while seated, 3' 7" from
                                  top of cushion to ceiling.
                                  .
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