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Balanced lug Q

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  • craig o'donnell
    ... I m trying to picture this and I m not succeeding. You mean simply pivoting the boom further forward, or physically sliding the whole sail forward? Or
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
      >If you compare
      >the drawings for dipping and balanced lugs, you'll see that a lot
      >more of the foot of the dipping lug is forward of the mast than the
      >balanced lug. The boom downhaul on the balanced rig was slid forward
      >a couple feet and the windward performance improved dramatically. The
      >dipping lug, though, was faster on the wind and my impression was it
      >was closer-winded as well.

      I'm trying to picture this and I'm not succeeding. You mean simply
      "pivoting" the boom further forward, or physically sliding the whole sail
      forward? Or ... ?
      --
      Craig O'Donnell
      Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
      <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
      The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
      The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
      Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
      American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
      Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
      _________________________________

      -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
      -- Macintosh kinda guy
      Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
      _________________________________
    • gbship
      Reed & Bruce: The boat is a custom design from Bolger. It s basically a doubled Gypsy, about twice as long and not quite twice as wide. Originally it had a
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
        Reed & Bruce:
        The boat is a custom design from Bolger. It's basically a doubled
        Gypsy, about twice as long and not quite twice as wide. Originally it
        had a deep fixed fin keel; it now has a shorter keel with wings.

        On reefing, lines are rigged at the luff and leech like conventional
        jiffy reefing lines, only they are led through turning blocks at the
        mast, and then back to the cockpit. There's a couple cleats at the
        mast where the boom downhaul the block (I use three sets of double
        blocks) have a rope tail and are fastened to those cleats. It might
        be better to fastened them to the boom at the pivot point, but that's
        a lot of blocks on a not very wide boom. BTW, the reefing lines led
        this way become the boom downhaul when the sail is reefed. The third
        reef is my substitute for a security blanket. It seems to add about
        triple the tendency to foul things up over just having two reefs, but
        if the lines are led carefully, it works. There are line stoppers and
        a #20 Barlow winch at the aft end of the cabin top to help handle the
        lines.

        If you like, I can e-mail some pictures of the reefing setup.

        Gary Blankenship
        Tallahassee, FL


        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed48" <captreed@s...> wrote:
        >
        > The boat is still rigged as a
        > > balanced lugger, and the sail can be raised, lowered and up to
        > triple
        > > reefed from the cockpit.
        >
        > Hi Gary,
        >
        > Not too much at all. Fascinating, actually.
        >
        > I was curious how you managed to reef the balanced lug from the
        > cockpit.
        >
        > Reed
      • Nels
        ... Hi Gary, Would be great if you could post them to Bolger4photos or if you email them to Bruce maybe he would if you are not a member of all the groups. We
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbship" <gbship@c...> wrote:
          >
          > Reed & Bruce:
          > If you like, I can e-mail some pictures of the reefing setup.
          >
          > Gary Blankenship
          > Tallahassee, FL
          >
          >
          Hi Gary,

          Would be great if you could post them to Bolger4photos or if you
          email them to Bruce maybe he would if you are not a member of all the
          groups.

          We also be interested in you experience with the swing wing keel and
          how complicated it was to build and use and anything else you would
          like to share about the boat and it's capabilites, and how seaworthy
          and effecient it is.

          I have always been fascinated by the idea of such a simple design
          having such potential.

          Thanks, Nels
        • Harry James
          CC me also please welshman@ptialaska.net HJ
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
            CC me also please

            welshman@...

            HJ

            gbship wrote:

            >Reed & Bruce:
            >The boat is a custom design from Bolger. It's basically a doubled
            >Gypsy, about twice as long and not quite twice as wide. Originally it
            >had a deep fixed fin keel; it now has a shorter keel with wings.
            >
            >On reefing, lines are rigged at the luff and leech like conventional
            >jiffy reefing lines, only they are led through turning blocks at the
            >mast, and then back to the cockpit. There's a couple cleats at the
            >mast where the boom downhaul the block (I use three sets of double
            >blocks) have a rope tail and are fastened to those cleats. It might
            >be better to fastened them to the boom at the pivot point, but that's
            >a lot of blocks on a not very wide boom. BTW, the reefing lines led
            >this way become the boom downhaul when the sail is reefed. The third
            >reef is my substitute for a security blanket. It seems to add about
            >triple the tendency to foul things up over just having two reefs, but
            >if the lines are led carefully, it works. There are line stoppers and
            >a #20 Barlow winch at the aft end of the cabin top to help handle the
            >lines.
            >
            >If you like, I can e-mail some pictures of the reefing setup.
            >
            >Gary Blankenship
            >Tallahassee, FL
            >
            >
            >--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed48" <captreed@s...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >> The boat is still rigged as a
            >>
            >>
            >>>balanced lugger, and the sail can be raised, lowered and up to
            >>>
            >>>
            >>triple
            >>
            >>
            >>>reefed from the cockpit.
            >>>
            >>>
            >>Hi Gary,
            >>
            >>Not too much at all. Fascinating, actually.
            >>
            >>I was curious how you managed to reef the balanced lug from the
            >>cockpit.
            >>
            >>Reed
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Bolger rules!!!
            >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
            >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
            >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
            >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >.
            >
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            >
          • captreed48
            Hi Gary, Thank you for the explanation. I had 3 jiffy reefs on a balanced lug and the boom was crowded. One thing I did was put the forward attachment point
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
              Hi Gary,

              Thank you for the explanation. I had 3 jiffy reefs on a balanced lug
              and the boom was crowded. One thing I did was put the forward
              attachment point for the third reef aft along the boom so the COE
              didn't move forward with that reef.

              I've changed the rig to a standing lug that allows roller reefing.
              Since the luff moves aft when reefing no lee helm developes.

              Your lug nut, Reed
            • gbship
              Nels: I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel Travails
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 3, 2005
                Nels:
                I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel
                Travails< for Duckworks Magazine (www.duckworksmagazine.com, and you
                can find it in the December 2004 archives, although I think you have
                to be a member to read it. If you not, I'll copy it and send it to
                you.
                In a nutshell, it worked, but was complicated to install and get the
                angle of the wings set properly. It was neat. the keel pivoted up
                like a centerboard, while the wings rotated to remain parallel to the
                bottom. Unfortunately a key part failed, and the wings are now fixed
                in place. The keel still swing up, but the wings obviiously create
                more drag the more the keel is lifted. I joke that I've got the only
                sailboat with brakes. As originally installed, you could sail with
                the keel lifted and you could use it to adjust helm balanced. Now its
                only raised to get in and out of shallow channels, and under power.

                Bolger told me this was a prototype effort, and he intended to use my
                experience to include a swing wing, with the swiveling wings, on the
                Insolent 60, but I've never seen drawings of any information on that
                design, so I don't know if that was done. If anyone has seen plans
                for the Insolent 60, let me know!

                Gary Blankenship

                > We also be interested in you experience with the swing wing keel
                and
                > how complicated it was to build and use and anything else you would
                > like to share about the boat and it's capabilites, and how
                seaworthy
                > and effecient it is.
                >
                > I have always been fascinated by the idea of such a simple design
                > having such potential.
                >
                > Thanks, Nels
              • Harry James
                I know two on this list that really want to see them:) HJ
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 3, 2005
                  I know two on this list that really want to see them:)

                  HJ

                  gbship wrote:

                  >Nels:
                  >I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel
                  >Travails< for Duckworks Magazine (www.duckworksmagazine.com, and you
                  >can find it in the December 2004 archives, although I think you have
                  >to be a member to read it. If you not, I'll copy it and send it to
                  >you.
                  >In a nutshell, it worked, but was complicated to install and get the
                  >angle of the wings set properly. It was neat. the keel pivoted up
                  >like a centerboard, while the wings rotated to remain parallel to the
                  >bottom. Unfortunately a key part failed, and the wings are now fixed
                  >in place. The keel still swing up, but the wings obviiously create
                  >more drag the more the keel is lifted. I joke that I've got the only
                  >sailboat with brakes. As originally installed, you could sail with
                  >the keel lifted and you could use it to adjust helm balanced. Now its
                  >only raised to get in and out of shallow channels, and under power.
                  >
                  >Bolger told me this was a prototype effort, and he intended to use my
                  >experience to include a swing wing, with the swiveling wings, on the
                  >Insolent 60, but I've never seen drawings of any information on that
                  >design, so I don't know if that was done. If anyone has seen plans
                  >for the Insolent 60, let me know!
                  >
                  >Gary Blankenship
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >>We also be interested in you experience with the swing wing keel
                  >>
                  >>
                  >and
                  >
                  >
                  >>how complicated it was to build and use and anything else you would
                  >>like to share about the boat and it's capabilites, and how
                  >>
                  >>
                  >seaworthy
                  >
                  >
                  >>and effecient it is.
                  >>
                  >>I have always been fascinated by the idea of such a simple design
                  >>having such potential.
                  >>
                  >>Thanks, Nels
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Bolger rules!!!
                  >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                  >- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  >- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  >- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Nels
                  ... you ... have ... Hi Gary, For some reason I missed reading the entire December issue! Thanks for the great article and also the updates. I enquired quite
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 3, 2005
                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "gbship" <gbship@c...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Nels:
                    > I wrote a long article about the wing keel, titled Wing Keel
                    > Travails< for Duckworks Magazine (www.duckworksmagazine.com, and
                    you
                    > can find it in the December 2004 archives, although I think you
                    have
                    > to be a member to read it. If you not, I'll copy it and send it to
                    > you.

                    Hi Gary,

                    For some reason I missed reading the entire December issue! Thanks
                    for the great article and also the updates.

                    I enquired quite awhile back about installing a small swing wing keel
                    in a Long Micro salient keel to give it some added offhsore
                    capability while not intruding on the cabin space. I was informed
                    that that it was most likly to add nothing to a hull of that shape
                    and hull speed. It is a keel designed for a fast narrow hull like
                    yours.

                    Great name for a boat!

                    Cheers, Nels
                  • Susan Davis
                    ... I have a preliminary draft of the plans; scans of the plan view and interior layout are in the Photos section on Bolger4. -- Sue -- (I read your article
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 5, 2005
                      > If anyone has seen plans for the Insolent 60, let me know!

                      I have a preliminary draft of the plans; scans of the plan view and
                      interior layout are in the Photos section on Bolger4.

                      -- Sue --
                      (I read your article and enjoyed it very much, btw.)

                      --
                      Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
                    • Gary Blankenship
                      Susan: I signed up for Bolger4, but can t find the Insolent scans either in the photos or the files. Am I missing something or are they in a folder titled
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 5, 2005
                        Susan:
                        I signed up for Bolger4, but can't find the Insolent scans either in the photos or the files. Am I missing something or are they in a folder titled something elese?

                        Gary

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Susan Davis
                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 3:27 AM
                        Subject: [bolger] Swing Wing, was Re: More dipping lugger (probably too much...)



                        > If anyone has seen plans for the Insolent 60, let me know!

                        I have a preliminary draft of the plans; scans of the plan view and
                        interior layout are in the Photos section on Bolger4.

                        -- Sue --
                        (I read your article and enjoyed it very much, btw.)

                        --
                        Susan Davis <futabachan@...>





                        Bolger rules!!!
                        - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                        - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                        - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                        - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                        - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


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                      • Susan Davis
                        ... Eep! Sorry... they re on Bolger3. -- Susan Davis
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 5, 2005
                          Gary:
                          > I signed up for Bolger4, but can't find the Insolent scans either
                          > in the photos or the files. Am I missing something or are they in
                          > a folder titled something else?

                          Eep! Sorry... they're on Bolger3.

                          --
                          Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
                        • Bruce Hallman
                          http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0 Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator, our first overnight trip. Lots of fun, some calm
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 6, 2005
                            http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0

                            Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
                            our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
                            and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
                            reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.

                            I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
                            of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
                            to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
                            just wasted effort on such small hull.

                            Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
                            the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
                            Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
                            last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
                            to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
                            'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
                            Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
                            de-facto Bolger emissary.

                            Susan, David prepare yourself.

                            The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
                            simply huge inside, and when you get out and
                            compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
                            much tiny, 'Micro'.

                            I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
                            having anything to measure against, it is hard
                            to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
                            under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
                            a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
                            Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
                            at all.
                          • dbaldnz
                            Great Stuff Bruce! I like that salty shot looking aft with some nice heel. Windscreen wipers for the front next? She looks fine sitting in the berth next to
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 7, 2005
                              Great Stuff Bruce!
                              I like that salty shot looking aft with some nice heel.
                              Windscreen wipers for the front next?
                              She looks fine sitting in the berth next to the other yachts.
                              I got everything set last saturday, wife organised to take sailing
                              photos, loaded the gear in the car, got there and guess
                              what?....painted ships on a painted sea. No wind at all for the rest
                              of the day, so we went home again.
                              DonB
                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                              > http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0
                              >
                              > Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
                              > our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
                              > and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
                              > reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
                              >
                              > I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
                              > of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
                              > to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
                              > just wasted effort on such small hull.
                              >
                              > Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
                              > the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
                              > Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
                              > last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
                              > to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
                              > 'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
                              > Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
                              > de-facto Bolger emissary.
                              >
                              > Susan, David prepare yourself.
                              >
                              > The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
                              > simply huge inside, and when you get out and
                              > compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
                              > much tiny, 'Micro'.
                              >
                              > I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
                              > having anything to measure against, it is hard
                              > to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
                              > under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
                              > a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
                              > Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
                              > at all.
                            • woofers94401
                              Bruce, Looks like saturday was a nice day on the bay. Can you shed a little more light on some of the comments you got about your boat and you think the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 7, 2005
                                Bruce,
                                Looks like saturday was a nice day on the bay. Can you shed a little
                                more light on some of the comments you got about your boat and you
                                think the impression people had of it?

                                Greg


                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                                > http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0
                                >
                                > Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
                                > our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
                                > and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
                                > reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
                                >
                                > I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
                                > of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
                                > to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
                                > just wasted effort on such small hull.
                                >
                                > Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
                                > the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
                                > Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
                                > last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
                                > to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
                                > 'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
                                > Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
                                > de-facto Bolger emissary.
                                >
                                > Susan, David prepare yourself.
                                >
                                > The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
                                > simply huge inside, and when you get out and
                                > compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
                                > much tiny, 'Micro'.
                                >
                                > I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
                                > having anything to measure against, it is hard
                                > to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
                                > under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
                                > a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
                                > Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
                                > at all.
                              • Bruce Hallman
                                ... Best weekend of the year, so far! Calm in the morning and 10-15 kt westerlies in the afternoons 65 deg F. ... Curiosity more than anything else.
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 8, 2005
                                  > Bruce,
                                  > Looks like saturday was a nice day on the bay.

                                  Best weekend of the year, so far! Calm in the morning
                                  and 10-15 kt westerlies in the afternoons 65 deg F.

                                  > Can you shed a little more light on some of the
                                  > comments you got about your boat and you
                                  > think the impression people had of it?
                                  > Greg

                                  Curiosity more than anything else. Basically
                                  everybody starts out with the question: "Did
                                  you build it?" Followed by a long series of
                                  other questions, that after a dozen people
                                  become repetitive.

                                  Some people want to know 'how old' it is.
                                  A certain subset of the group wants to know
                                  how the odd looking sail rig works. Lots of
                                  others are amazed at the glasshouse comfy
                                  cabin on a sailboat. Many others guess that it
                                  must have a centerboard, and are skeptical
                                  that it can function without one.

                                  Considering the fact that 99% of the boats I
                                  see tend to be very much similar to each
                                  other, I suspect mostly their owners are
                                  'conformists' and my boat is definately not
                                  that! So, I am guessing that many who do
                                  not approach me probably view me and my
                                  boat as a "bit odd".

                                  Generally, the people that did have the initiative
                                  to approach me seemed to have a favorable
                                  impression of the boat, and all these people
                                  were friendly! That is a welcome thing! (most the
                                  time), except at times when you are in a hurry
                                  trying to get work done to beat the tide, etc.,
                                  while a small crowd gathers wanting to talk.
                                • Peter Lenihan
                                  ... Don t worry Bruce,you ll get used to it...trust me :-) Sincerely, Peter Lenihan,ex-Micro owner/builder who finally sold his Micro because he couldn t take
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 8, 2005
                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                                    > > Curiosity more than anything else.

                                    Don't worry Bruce,you'll get used to it...trust me :-)

                                    Sincerely,

                                    Peter Lenihan,ex-Micro owner/builder who finally sold his Micro
                                    because he couldn't take the questions anymore..........:-D
                                  • m_doles
                                    You ve probably mentioned it before,but what is the head room on your navigator?
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Mar 9, 2005
                                      You've probably mentioned it before,but what is the head room on
                                      your navigator?


                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                                      > http://community.webshots.com/album/289729965jYUhbR/0
                                      >
                                      > Just got back from a fun trip on my Micro Navigator,
                                      > our first 'overnight' trip. Lots of fun, some calm weather,
                                      > and then good wind in the afternoons, including a great
                                      > reach home across the Golden Gate, with 3 or 4 foot seas.
                                      >
                                      > I had a couple realizations, first, with the hull speed
                                      > of a 15 1/2 boat, it doesn't really take much sail
                                      > to get the boat up to 'hull speed', beyond that is
                                      > just wasted effort on such small hull.
                                      >
                                      > Also, budget extra time, where ever you go, boat ramp,
                                      > the dock, etc.. for the conversations with the passer-by's
                                      > Really! I am not exaggerating that a dozen times in the
                                      > last two days I was engaged by total strangers wanting
                                      > to know more. If I was a drinker, I got offered enough
                                      > 'can I buy you a drink?'s" to get rather drunk if I had desired.
                                      > Like it or not, sail an odd looking boat, and you become a
                                      > de-facto Bolger emissary.
                                      >
                                      > Susan, David prepare yourself.
                                      >
                                      > The funny thing about the boat is that if feels
                                      > simply huge inside, and when you get out and
                                      > compare it to ther other boats, it seems very
                                      > much tiny, 'Micro'.
                                      >
                                      > I got to try it out for 'windward' ability, and not
                                      > having anything to measure against, it is hard
                                      > to explain. But we left downtown San Francisco,
                                      > under the typical 'westerly' and were able to do
                                      > a long tack to windward ending up at downtown
                                      > Sausalito. Not disappointing windward progress
                                      > at all.
                                    • Bruce Hallman
                                      ... There is about 3 square feet of floor that has 5 feet 8 1/2 inches of head room. I am six feet tall, and find that plenty adaquate for standing and
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Mar 9, 2005
                                        > You've probably mentioned it before,but what is the head room on
                                        > your navigator?


                                        There is about 3 square feet of floor that has
                                        5 feet 8 1/2 inches of head room. I am six feet tall,
                                        and find that plenty adaquate for standing and pulling
                                        up my pants, etc..

                                        Also, the roof hatch slides wide open, and
                                        gives unlimited headroom, when open.

                                        The headroom above the berths is very generous
                                        and non-claustrophobic. I don't think I can touch
                                        the ceiling with my hand while seated, 3' 7" from
                                        top of cushion to ceiling.
                                        .
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