- Hi Graeme,
Do you want me to scan the pages from the book and email to you?
I don't think Yahoo accept attachments, so send me your personal email
address if you want them-
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
> congratulations on launching Rose and happy sailing.
> Thanks yet again for posting wonderful info for the delectation and
> savouring by we hungry resource starved Bolgeristas.
> Like Gavin I sigh every time I see that photo of Otter sailing. The
> high resolution black and white shows details somewhat clearer than
> the small colour version I have seen previously.
> When I first saw that colour pic over a year ago I was really taken
> with Otter. BUT confused...
> Around the same time there were posts about David Carnell's Otter.
> He emailed me his brief comments on that boat (too heavy and
> difficult to rig to easily trail; no real problems though some
> reportedly swamped; cramped for two-up cruising; a good sailer). It
> was an Otter ll. Slowly it dawned on my dumb self that it was a very
> different boat to that of Jim Huxford's in the photo. Then someone
> thankfully posted a scan of the profile of Otter ll from the book
> and the gaff rigged Otter ll was obviously different to Otter.
> From the database:
> Otter #231 19'6" x4'10" Sail $100.00 PB&F Daysailer-cruiser -
> leeboard plywood sharpie - ref: SmallBoats Ch#22;
> Otter II #375 19'6'' x 5'10'' Sail PB&F Plywood Cat Yawl
> Cruiser - ref: Diff. Boats Ch#13.
> I'm still uncertain about some things concerning Otter (the one in
> the photo Bruce posted):
> 1. is it ketch or yawl rigged?
> 2. is the rudder beneath or mounted from the transom?
> 3. if aft of the mizzen, what method of tiller solution?
> 4. does it have a transom or is it double ended?
> 5. two leeboards, or one only changed to the lee side when tacking?
> 6. rope slung leeboards?
> 7. is the boat heavy?
> 8. any ballast?
> 9. how good a sailer?
> 10. does the jib enhance windward ability?
> 11. is the mast stayed ( are those shrouds I can just see in the
> 12. is the mast stepped through the cabin top?
> 13. if so, how is water entry prevented?
> 14. there seems to be no cabin top hatch (as distinct from Otter
> ll), so if (crawling) access is via the aft cabin bulkhead how is
> water entry prevented?
> 15. have many been built, any pics?
> 16. would the plans still be US$100?
> 17. how good a rower?
> 18. about when was it designed?
> I imagine it to be similar in shape, size and construction to
> Singlehand Schooner, though obviously not the same rig and not blue
> water capable, but a bit more cabin space and thin water
> gunkholeability. And a smaller project than Birdwatcher.(Are Mr
> Bolger and Friends going to come out with a smaller Birdwatcher
> design, or perhaps the self-righting physics won't work for a
> shorter, narrower boat? I've read here of people contemplating
> Zephyr modification, but don't know if it was carried out.)
> Otter sure looks sweet in that photo. I'd appreciate any info from
> the group that might complete and clarify the picture of Otter I
> have in my mind. A scan (profile?) would be wonderful, anyone? A
> model to wonder at, Bruce?
> fair winds
> --- In email@example.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > Here is a photo of an Otter,
> > at a Midwest mess-a-bout
> > circa 1990.
> > Also, that if Jim Michalak's
> > original Birdwatcher and a Micro.
> > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Otter.jpg
> Otter #231 19'6" x4'10" Sail $100.00 PB&F Daysailer-cruiser -Looking more closely at the photo
> leeboard plywood sharpie - ref: SmallBoats Ch#22;
I agree that their rig is not strictly 'per plans'
it appears that they have a simple stick for
the center mast, and that it is stayed with
three wires. Probably because they didn't
want the mast puncturing the cuddy roof
and occupying the center of the cuddy.
I would like to see a race between an Otter and a AS19.
- Thanks for your help Bruce.
>The center mast is double, like a gunterI think I understand what the as-designed rig is more or less like,
however I'm surprised to see this. I had gained an impression that
PCB did not have a good opinion of the gunter rig.
> Looks pretty lightweight, and I don't think it hasDoes it look like the under floor ballast below the cuddy robs too
> any hard ballast, but there is some water ballast,
> under a false bottom to the cuddy and cockpit.
much space? I ask this because the scan of Otter ll I've seen has a
higher cabin top than Otter and even higher cabin top sliding hatch.
> Seek out a copy of the book _Small Boats_Surely good advice and I've begun to get to grips with EBay in order
> [$40 +/- on EBay every month or so.]
> The full set of plans and building key are
> reproduced in the book.
to read any of those earlier works. Its looked to me that
international shipping charges price most prospective book purchases
beyond the acceptable. But if they are personally really worth it
and will never be available any other way... Perhaps a bulk purchase?
but surely the *Collected Works* will one day be available on CD or
> > 14. there seems to be no cabin top hatchWe can still crawl so don't mind that at all, but wonder if it has
> It has a 'crawl in' hatch, like the LF Herreshoff
a bulkhead extending upwards from the floor to exclude any cockpit
water from the cabin?
> Ten sheets of plywood.Very simple suits me.
> It looks like a very simple and fast build
- Hi Don,
I'd greatly appreciate your scanning and emailing pages from the
I should be able to get attachments via my yahoo email account. I'm
sure I have before. Hotmail seems to be problematical. Please let me
know if bounced. Thanks very much.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "dbaldnz" <oink@w...> wrote:
> Hi Graeme,
> Do you want me to scan the pages from the book and email to you?
> I don't think Yahoo accept attachments, so send me your personal
> address if you want them-
> --- In email@example.com, "graeme19121984"
> > > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Otter.jpg
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:>
> I agree that their rig is not strictly 'per plans'>Would you say from the photo that the masts are alloy and sails
footed to conventional booms? (Off the shelf or surplas standard
marconi rigs?) In the sailing photo it looks to me as though they
are, but in the beached photo I'm not so sure.
> I would like to see a race between an Otter and a AS19.>Sailing or rowing? :)
Have they approximately the same cabin space?
--- In email@example.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > Otter #231 19'6" x4'10" Sail $100.00 PB&F Daysailer-
> > leeboard plywood sharpie - ref: SmallBoats Ch#22;
> Looking more closely at the photo
> I agree that their rig is not strictly 'per plans'
> it appears that they have a simple stick for
> the center mast, and that it is stayed with
> three wires. Probably because they didn't
> want the mast puncturing the cuddy roof
> and occupying the center of the cuddy.
> I would like to see a race between an Otter and a AS19.>
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
>BIRDWATCHER II has a gunter rig and PCB says BW is his favorite
> Thanks for your help Bruce.
> >The center mast is double, like a gunter
> I think I understand what the as-designed rig is more or less like,
> however I'm surprised to see this. I had gained an impression that
> PCB did not have a good opinion of the gunter rig.
design. I think the version he uses is pretty foolproof in smaller
sized sails, but not sure if anyone actually has a BWI with that rig.
The original offers the Leg-o'-mutton with sprit boom.
> BIRDWATCHER II has a gunter rigI am coming to realize that the difference
between a gunter and a solent lug is only
how the foot of the top yard attaches to
the mast. With a track for a gunter, and
with a loose parrel for a solent lug. One
of the two original rigs for Birdwatcher
was a solent lug.
It is good because you get a taller mast
out of two shorter pieces of wood, bad
because it is sloppy and hard to get
a really nice shape to the sail.
...shows a picture I grabbed from the web
a while back, (I think that is Craig O'Donnell)
anybody recognize it?
- --- In email@example.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
> > BIRDWATCHER II has a gunter rigHi Bruce,
> ...shows a picture I grabbed from the web
> a while back, (I think that is Craig O'Donnell)
> anybody recognize it?
I have a copy of the original plan beside me for "Birdwatcher
enlarged sail plan mod:" drawn 11/1/90.
Doesn't say what kind of rig it is:-)
The boom is the standard one "shortened 3' 6" from top making it 20'.
Uses the original sprit boom. The yard is 15' long and attaches to
the top of the mast just with a stopper knot through a deadeye about
6 feet from the top. There is no other attachment of the yard to the
mast. No parrel or anything. The upper part of the sail is attached
to the yard through a dead eye at each end and a loop of line about
every two feet between. The only other attachment is a grommet at the
tack and around the mast.
The sail has some roach and three battens, one set of reef points
that decreases the area from 185 to 141 sq. feet. And there is a 41
sq. ft. jib option. This compares to the leg-o'-mutton area of 125
sq. ft. that has brail reefing.
So there is nothing to jam on the rig. To reef you ease off on
downhaul and the weight of the sail brings the yard down. It lowers
about 3 feet so you can tie in the reef. The problem as I see it is
the 3 ft. length of rope from the top of the mast to the dead eye in
the yard. It would no longer keep the yard against the mast and it
would look like the sail in your photo. The yard is free to flop
around to some degree.
Also once you reef the f'wd end of the sprit is so far forward that
it will be protruding beyond the luff of the jib! Also it is not
clear how one would tie in the reef as there seems to be no grommet
for what would become the new tack?
Not sure how this is all solved on the BWII rig.
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> The boom is the standard one "shortened 3' 6" from top making it20'.
Of course that should be The mast and not the boom!
> Also once you reef the f'wd end of the sprit is so far forward thatAlternately, you could retie the clew of the sail
> it will be protruding beyond the luff of the jib!
'choking up' on the sprit.
Woodenboat, I think, published this illustration of the
two types of BW1 rigs.