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Re: [bolger] Light Dory MK V?

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  • Will Samson
    As far as I know the current Light Dory (plans available from Bolger OR Payson) is the type VI - so it post-dates the type V in Small Boats. Interestingly
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 1 12:24 AM
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      As far as I know the current Light Dory (plans available from Bolger OR Payson) is the 'type VI' - so it post-dates the type V in Small Boats.

      Interestingly the type VI has a tombstone transom. Maybe the double-ended type V was a step too far for traditionalists? Pretty boat, though.

      Bill

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • kaiguri
      ... Type V, #265, 4.74m x 1.22m are available for $50 from PB & F. Mahalo, Randy
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 1 12:57 AM
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        ---Aloha! I looked in the database and the plans for the Light Dory
        Type V, #265, 4.74m x 1.22m are available for $50 from PB & F.
        Mahalo, Randy

        In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
        > > an improved G.Gull called the Light Dory Mk V.
        >
        > Phil Bolger has made five attempts at designing
        > a light dory, Mk. V is the fifth attempt,
        >
        > It differs from the Gloucester Gull in that it
        > is pointy on both ends, and doesn't has
        > a tombstone transom. Also, the plans are
        > dimensioned in metric. [I recall.]
        >
        > 'Improved' is a subjective thing, and in part
        > at least, Bolger did five versions because of
        > complexity of who owns the rights to sell
        > each of these versions. Bolger, I am sure
        > still sells the Type V dory plans, and a
        > quick fax to him would get a response as
        > to the price. I you learn this, please share
        > the info with us.
      • Bruce Hallman
        http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6949133508 At auction on EBay, someones collection of Small Boat Journal magazines.
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 1 6:16 AM
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          http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6949133508

          At auction on EBay, someones collection of
          Small Boat Journal magazines.
        • Nels
          ... Free plans and panel layouts, for a Dory that can be built Stitch and Glue at the link below. If a person used one roof rack bracket on the cab, it could
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 1 6:34 AM
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "kaiguri" <kaiguri@y...> wrote:
            >
            > ---Aloha! I looked in the database and the plans for the Light Dory
            > Type V, #265, 4.74m x 1.22m are available for $50 from PB & F.
            > Mahalo, Randy
            >
            Free plans and panel layouts, for a Dory that can be built Stitch and
            Glue at the link below. If a person used one roof rack bracket on the
            cab, it could be carried in a pick-up truck.

            http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm

            JB is member of this group.

            Cheers, Nels
          • Bruce Hallman
            ... Here is the text from the 1980 Small Boat Journal where Phil Bolger explains the lineage of his dory designs: ==================== Phil Bolger Comments:
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 1 7:26 AM
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              Will Samson wrote:
              >
              > As far as I know the current Light Dory (plans available from Bolger OR Payson) > is the 'type VI' - so it post-dates the type V in Small Boats.

              Here is the text from the 1980 Small Boat Journal
              where Phil Bolger explains the lineage of his dory designs:

              ====================

              Phil Bolger Comments: From Small Boat Journal V.1#7 March 1980

              A 15'6" Light Dory

              My leeboard sharpie, Pointer, was launched in the summer of 1960. She
              had no place on deck for a dinghy, and I set out to design and build a
              good rowing tender. I wanted one that would live in rough water and
              row well enough so I could feel free to anchor far out from landings.
              Besides, I'd been one of those "pretty thin on the ground at the time"
              who had a mission to see that a generation didn't grow up in total
              ignorance of what could be accomplished with reasonable practical
              rowing boats. I pulled out a design I'd made back in 1952 called
              Golden River, a planked dory that had rounded sides and was a good
              deal slimmer and lower than the usual fisherman's dory. (Fig.1) These
              were nice boats to row, but the construction was so finicky and
              laborious that only a few were built. I revamped it for sheet plywood
              construction and in a moment of inspiration very much improved the
              looks of the sheer line. (Fig. 2) This drawing wasn't supposed to be
              seen by anybody but me, by the way; my brother said something about
              the shoemaker's children going barefoot when he saw one of the
              drawings I'd made for my own use.

              I built her that winter, very roughly, having no pretensions to being
              a competent carpenter. If you stand back fifty feet that boat looks
              real good, said a kind friend. In fact, it did (Fig. 3), and still
              does; Damian McLaughlin owns it now, along with the sharpie, and he's
              refinished it elaborately.

              I gave it a quick trial, hurriedly added a skeg to make it tow
              straight, and took off for a month's cruise around Cape Cod and the
              Islands. The cruise was meant to showoff the sharpie, but wherever I
              went,nobody looked at her. They were all looking past the stern, at
              the dory on the end of her sea painter. There were so many compliments
              that I thought I must have a commercial product, and when I got home I
              redesigned it again for production. I'd like to note that the dory
              shape was originally adapted to series production out of sheet
              material, namely wide planks, and these boats have the sharp flare so
              they can be stored and transported in compact nests. This third
              version had the stem rounded back where I'd had a miserable time
              trying to twist the plywood onto the fore foot. The fore-and-aft
              straddle thwart had made her seem even more tender than she was by
              nature because it prevented stepping dead center of the bottom; I
              changed that for three conventional thwarts. I put the gunwale
              stringer on the outside so water and mud would run cleanly out when
              she was on her side; the proportions of breadth and flare made it
              possible to step on the gunwale as she lay on a beach, bringing the
              far gunwale nearly up to an out stretched hand with which she could be
              pulled up on her beam ends. I corrected the angle of the rowlock
              sockets, though to this day I don't understand why it is that a
              rowlock that cants out with the flare makes a boat seem hard to row.

              With my heart in my mouth I ordered a batch of ten of these boats from
              Art Rand's boat shop, on speculation, and bought some small ads. (Fig.
              4) The ten sold out, and another ten, and another and another, and
              another. The demand was scattered, but it was there. There were more
              compliments, including one I'll treasure forever from Buckminster
              Fuller. Palawan was seen to sail through Buzzards Bay with a brace of
              them nested on deck. Ralph Wiley ordered one for the deck of a cruiser
              he was building.

              The modest success was nice, but I soon had enough of handling sales.
              I tossed the business in Art Rand's lap and went off for a year to
              work in Stanley Woodward's yacht yard in Mallorca. When I got back,
              Art had got himself into a financial bind and gone out of business.
              For vanity's sake, I wanted the design to stay in circulation, so I
              drew the plans again and made a present of that version to Capt. Jim
              Orrell, the Texas Dory man. He called it the Gloucester Gull and
              circulated it nobly; I'd guess he must have sent out thousands of
              plans. But we quarrelled over it: he got angry because I wouldn't draw
              up a sailing rig and a motor well for it, and I lost my temper because
              he went ahead and had somebody else do both over my objections. These
              I thought, should have been respected, especially as my reasons were
              that the modified version was somewhat dangerous as well as
              inefficient.

              When I was working up my book, "Small Boats, "I designed (for the
              book)what was supposed to be an improved version, with longer entrance
              lines, drew weight more concentrated to go better against a head sea,
              and the construction supposedly cleaned up a little. (Fig. 5) This
              version really is better, but not by much, and most people don't think
              it's as good looking as the 1961 design, which just keeps on selling.

              The absolute final version, as far as I'm concerned, is Type VI. (Fig.
              6) This one was drawn up to Harold Payson's order. He both builds them
              and sells the plans, which is the way it should be, ideally. I think
              it must have been one of his boats in which the hero of "Swashbuckler"
              pursued the heroine of that rather disappointing movie

              I've spent a good deal of time in the past 10 or 15 years trying to
              warn people that dories aren't the best solution for all nautical
              problems. They need lofting and jigging preparation that make them
              expensive to build one-off, and they're full of sharp bevels that make
              them tricky for novice carpenters. All of them, and this one
              especially, feel terribly tender, and they're hard to get into and out
              of in consequence. They have a wild, bouncy motion in a seaway, which
              keeps them dry but can do horrid things to your stomach. I've watched
              one that was being towed behind a close-hauled sailboat in a strong
              chop and a heavy rain, and her cork-screwing among the waves was
              throwing the rainwater up and out of her bilge 6' in the air. Over in
              England they've solved the stability problems of dories by bestowing
              the name dory on copies of the Boston Whaler. S'truth!

              Be that as it may, these light dories are not bad boats. I've several
              times rowed 15 nautical miles in five hours, and more athletic types
              have done much better than that in them. If a single oarsman has sense
              enough to stay solidly planted on his or her butt, low in the boat,
              these boats will go through a wicked-looking sea. And though it's not
              hard to design a boat that will perform and behave better for most
              purposes -- even in sheet plywood, let alone molded -- it's not at all
              easy to make it as graceful to the eye.

              This design seems likely to be the permanent monument to my erratic
              career as a designer, and if so it will be mostly because one day in
              November of 1961 I happened to bend a batten around a very pretty
              sheerline indeed.
            • Bruce Hallman
              Also, the Letter to the Editor, and the SBJ retraction sheds light on the controversy of who owns the rights to the name Gloucester Gull .
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 1 7:44 AM
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                Also, the Letter to the Editor,
                and the SBJ 'retraction' sheds
                light on the controversy of who
                owns the rights to the name
                "Gloucester Gull".

                http://hallman.org/JimOrrell.gif
              • Philip Smith
                Why cheat Phil Bolger out of $50? Why not buy the plans from PB&F? Shouldn t genius have some reward? Phil Smith ...
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 1 7:53 AM
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                  Why cheat Phil Bolger out of $50? Why not buy the
                  plans from PB&F? Shouldn't genius have some reward?

                  Phil Smith

                  --- Nels <arvent@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "kaiguri"
                  > <kaiguri@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > ---Aloha! I looked in the database and the plans
                  > for the Light Dory
                  > > Type V, #265, 4.74m x 1.22m are available for $50
                  > from PB & F.
                  > > Mahalo, Randy
                  > >
                  > Free plans and panel layouts, for a Dory that can be
                  > built Stitch and
                  > Glue at the link below. If a person used one roof
                  > rack bracket on the
                  > cab, it could be carried in a pick-up truck.
                  >
                  > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm
                  >
                  > JB is member of this group.
                  >
                  > Cheers, Nels
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  > Bolger rules!!!
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                  > thanks, Fred' posts
                  > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
                  > and snip away
                  > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
                  > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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                • Bruce Hallman
                  ... I ll try to say this delicately, with no offense intended to jmbell. But from a subjective aesthetic measure, comparing the voluptuous sweeping curves of
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 1 9:21 AM
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                    > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm

                    I'll try to say this delicately, with no offense intended
                    to jmbell. But from a subjective aesthetic measure,
                    comparing the voluptuous sweeping curves of a Bolger
                    Light Dory to the Blackberry 14 is perhaps like comparing
                    Scarlett Johannson to Sheryl Crow?
                  • Stefan Gutermuth
                    You re analogy is completely subjective. I personally appreciate Sheryl s beauty, and find her artistic talent to be far superior to that other person,
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 1 10:16 AM
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                      You're analogy is completely subjective. I personally appreciate Sheryl's
                      beauty, and find her artistic talent to be far superior to that other
                      person, (Scarlett Johannson).

                      Stefan Gutermuth, V.P.
                      John O'Hara Company
                      Ph: 973-673-4676
                      Fx: 973-673-7141
                      Cl: 201-970-8007
                      stefan@...


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:21 PM
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Dory MK V?



                      > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm

                      I'll try to say this delicately, with no offense intended
                      to jmbell. But from a subjective aesthetic measure,
                      comparing the voluptuous sweeping curves of a Bolger
                      Light Dory to the Blackberry 14 is perhaps like comparing Scarlett Johannson
                      to Sheryl Crow?



                      Bolger rules!!!
                      - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                      - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                      - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                      - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
                      (978) 282-1349
                      - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Bruce Hallman
                      ... Clearly subjective, as I wrote. I appreciate both those boats and both those people, each for different reasons! I m sorry if I implied otherwise.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 1 10:36 AM
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                        > You're analogy is completely subjective.

                        Clearly subjective, as I wrote.
                        I appreciate both those boats
                        and both those people,
                        each for different reasons!
                        I'm sorry if I implied otherwise.
                      • John Bell
                        My Blackberry is supposed to be different from Bolger s dory. Both of the Blackberries were designed to be a little chunkier, with a little more initial
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 1 12:15 PM
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                          My Blackberry is supposed to be different from Bolger's dory. Both of the
                          Blackberries were designed to be a little chunkier, with a little more
                          initial stability to make the boat better for more relaxed pursuits like
                          fishing.

                          I'm not offended at all with the comparison. If you build my boat, great! If
                          you build some one else's boat, great! No skin off my nose.

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
                          To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:21 PM
                          Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Dory MK V?


                          >
                          > > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm
                          >
                          > I'll try to say this delicately, with no offense intended
                          > to jmbell. But from a subjective aesthetic measure,
                          > comparing the voluptuous sweeping curves of a Bolger
                          > Light Dory to the Blackberry 14 is perhaps like comparing
                          > Scarlett Johannson to Sheryl Crow?
                          >
                        • Peter Lenihan
                          ... come on Bruce...quit being such a tease and tell us which one you have a crush on anyways? :-) Peter Lenihan
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 1 12:35 PM
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                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                            > > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm
                            >
                            >comparing
                            > Scarlett Johannson to Sheryl Crow?

                            come on Bruce...quit being such a tease and tell us which one you
                            have a crush on anyways? :-)

                            Peter Lenihan
                          • Nels
                            ... My apologies, I did not realize my post would have such a deleterious effect on the group. I must have been delirious at the time:-) I thought I was only
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 1 12:58 PM
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                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
                              > Why cheat Phil Bolger out of $50? Why not buy the
                              > plans from PB&F? Shouldn't genius have some reward?
                              >
                              > Phil Smith
                              >
                              My apologies, I did not realize my post would have such a deleterious
                              effect on the group. I must have been delirious at the time:-)

                              I thought I was only providing information to one who was interested
                              in the stitch and glue option. Thank God I never mentioned Down East
                              Dories!

                              But it gave me a chance to use two words I don't normally get to use.

                              Now I have to research the connection between all this and those two
                              women Bruce is involved with:-)

                              Cheers,

                              Nels (Who's research seems to be unending.)
                            • Nels
                              ... Finished with my research. Because of the way Lestat has been constructed with no added floatation, for my deck crew I would have to choose the one who
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 1 1:13 PM
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                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
                                wrote:
                                > come on Bruce...quit being such a tease and tell us which one you
                                > have a crush on anyways? :-)
                                >
                                > Peter Lenihan

                                Finished with my research. Because of the way Lestat has been
                                constructed with no added floatation, for my deck crew I would have
                                to choose the one who seems to have the most. That would be Scarlett
                                in my estimation.

                                Now I wonder if I still need a winch as well?

                                Cheers,

                                Nels,
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