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Light Dory MK V?

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  • kaiguri
    Aloha! I read a few of the posts about the Gloucester Gull and I think someone mentioned an improved G.Gull called the Light Dory Mk V. Where would I find a
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 27, 2005
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      Aloha! I read a few of the posts about the Gloucester Gull and I
      think someone mentioned an improved G.Gull called the Light Dory Mk
      V. Where would I find a description of it and are the plans still
      available? Mahalo for any info, Randy
    • Philip Smith
      Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349 ... http://us.click.yahoo.com/6iY7fA/5WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/_0TolB/TM
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 27, 2005
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        Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
        Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349


        > Aloha! I read a few of the posts about the
        > Gloucester Gull and I
        > think someone mentioned an improved G.Gull called
        > the Light Dory Mk
        > V. Where would I find a description of it and are
        > the plans still
        > available? Mahalo for any info, Randy
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > --------------------~-->
        > Help save the life of a child. Support St. Jude
        > Children's Research Hospital's
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        >
        --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
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        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
        > flogging dead horses
        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
        > thanks, Fred' posts
        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
        > and snip away
        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
        > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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      • Will Samson
        I believe the Type V is described in Bolger s Small Boats . Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 27, 2005
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          I believe the Type V is described in Bolger's "Small Boats".

          Bill

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bruce Hallman
          ... Phil Bolger has made five attempts at designing a light dory, Mk. V is the fifth attempt, It differs from the Gloucester Gull in that it is pointy on both
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 27, 2005
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            > an improved G.Gull called the Light Dory Mk V.

            Phil Bolger has made five attempts at designing
            a light dory, Mk. V is the fifth attempt,

            It differs from the Gloucester Gull in that it
            is pointy on both ends, and doesn't has
            a tombstone transom. Also, the plans are
            dimensioned in metric. [I recall.]

            'Improved' is a subjective thing, and in part
            at least, Bolger did five versions because of
            complexity of who owns the rights to sell
            each of these versions. Bolger, I am sure
            still sells the Type V dory plans, and a
            quick fax to him would get a response as
            to the price. I you learn this, please share
            the info with us.
          • jhkohnen@boat-links.com
            The Light Dory Mk. V is in the book Small Boats (reprinted with The Folding Schooner in Bolger Boats). Here are some photos of one:
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 27, 2005
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              The Light Dory Mk. V is in the book Small Boats (reprinted with The Folding
              Schooner in Bolger Boats). Here are some photos of one:

              http://www.boat-links.com/messabout/02/Messabout-2.html

              On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:23:35 -0000, you wrote:
              >
              >
              > Aloha! I read a few of the posts about the Gloucester Gull and I
              > think someone mentioned an improved G.Gull called the Light Dory Mk
              > V. Where would I find a description of it and are the plans still
              > available? Mahalo for any info, Randy

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              http://www.boat-links.com/
              One boat just leads to another.
              <John Kohnen>
            • Will Samson
              As far as I know the current Light Dory (plans available from Bolger OR Payson) is the type VI - so it post-dates the type V in Small Boats. Interestingly
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                As far as I know the current Light Dory (plans available from Bolger OR Payson) is the 'type VI' - so it post-dates the type V in Small Boats.

                Interestingly the type VI has a tombstone transom. Maybe the double-ended type V was a step too far for traditionalists? Pretty boat, though.

                Bill

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • kaiguri
                ... Type V, #265, 4.74m x 1.22m are available for $50 from PB & F. Mahalo, Randy
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                  ---Aloha! I looked in the database and the plans for the Light Dory
                  Type V, #265, 4.74m x 1.22m are available for $50 from PB & F.
                  Mahalo, Randy

                  In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                  > > an improved G.Gull called the Light Dory Mk V.
                  >
                  > Phil Bolger has made five attempts at designing
                  > a light dory, Mk. V is the fifth attempt,
                  >
                  > It differs from the Gloucester Gull in that it
                  > is pointy on both ends, and doesn't has
                  > a tombstone transom. Also, the plans are
                  > dimensioned in metric. [I recall.]
                  >
                  > 'Improved' is a subjective thing, and in part
                  > at least, Bolger did five versions because of
                  > complexity of who owns the rights to sell
                  > each of these versions. Bolger, I am sure
                  > still sells the Type V dory plans, and a
                  > quick fax to him would get a response as
                  > to the price. I you learn this, please share
                  > the info with us.
                • Bruce Hallman
                  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6949133508 At auction on EBay, someones collection of Small Boat Journal magazines.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6949133508

                    At auction on EBay, someones collection of
                    Small Boat Journal magazines.
                  • Nels
                    ... Free plans and panel layouts, for a Dory that can be built Stitch and Glue at the link below. If a person used one roof rack bracket on the cab, it could
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "kaiguri" <kaiguri@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > ---Aloha! I looked in the database and the plans for the Light Dory
                      > Type V, #265, 4.74m x 1.22m are available for $50 from PB & F.
                      > Mahalo, Randy
                      >
                      Free plans and panel layouts, for a Dory that can be built Stitch and
                      Glue at the link below. If a person used one roof rack bracket on the
                      cab, it could be carried in a pick-up truck.

                      http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm

                      JB is member of this group.

                      Cheers, Nels
                    • Bruce Hallman
                      ... Here is the text from the 1980 Small Boat Journal where Phil Bolger explains the lineage of his dory designs: ==================== Phil Bolger Comments:
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                        Will Samson wrote:
                        >
                        > As far as I know the current Light Dory (plans available from Bolger OR Payson) > is the 'type VI' - so it post-dates the type V in Small Boats.

                        Here is the text from the 1980 Small Boat Journal
                        where Phil Bolger explains the lineage of his dory designs:

                        ====================

                        Phil Bolger Comments: From Small Boat Journal V.1#7 March 1980

                        A 15'6" Light Dory

                        My leeboard sharpie, Pointer, was launched in the summer of 1960. She
                        had no place on deck for a dinghy, and I set out to design and build a
                        good rowing tender. I wanted one that would live in rough water and
                        row well enough so I could feel free to anchor far out from landings.
                        Besides, I'd been one of those "pretty thin on the ground at the time"
                        who had a mission to see that a generation didn't grow up in total
                        ignorance of what could be accomplished with reasonable practical
                        rowing boats. I pulled out a design I'd made back in 1952 called
                        Golden River, a planked dory that had rounded sides and was a good
                        deal slimmer and lower than the usual fisherman's dory. (Fig.1) These
                        were nice boats to row, but the construction was so finicky and
                        laborious that only a few were built. I revamped it for sheet plywood
                        construction and in a moment of inspiration very much improved the
                        looks of the sheer line. (Fig. 2) This drawing wasn't supposed to be
                        seen by anybody but me, by the way; my brother said something about
                        the shoemaker's children going barefoot when he saw one of the
                        drawings I'd made for my own use.

                        I built her that winter, very roughly, having no pretensions to being
                        a competent carpenter. If you stand back fifty feet that boat looks
                        real good, said a kind friend. In fact, it did (Fig. 3), and still
                        does; Damian McLaughlin owns it now, along with the sharpie, and he's
                        refinished it elaborately.

                        I gave it a quick trial, hurriedly added a skeg to make it tow
                        straight, and took off for a month's cruise around Cape Cod and the
                        Islands. The cruise was meant to showoff the sharpie, but wherever I
                        went,nobody looked at her. They were all looking past the stern, at
                        the dory on the end of her sea painter. There were so many compliments
                        that I thought I must have a commercial product, and when I got home I
                        redesigned it again for production. I'd like to note that the dory
                        shape was originally adapted to series production out of sheet
                        material, namely wide planks, and these boats have the sharp flare so
                        they can be stored and transported in compact nests. This third
                        version had the stem rounded back where I'd had a miserable time
                        trying to twist the plywood onto the fore foot. The fore-and-aft
                        straddle thwart had made her seem even more tender than she was by
                        nature because it prevented stepping dead center of the bottom; I
                        changed that for three conventional thwarts. I put the gunwale
                        stringer on the outside so water and mud would run cleanly out when
                        she was on her side; the proportions of breadth and flare made it
                        possible to step on the gunwale as she lay on a beach, bringing the
                        far gunwale nearly up to an out stretched hand with which she could be
                        pulled up on her beam ends. I corrected the angle of the rowlock
                        sockets, though to this day I don't understand why it is that a
                        rowlock that cants out with the flare makes a boat seem hard to row.

                        With my heart in my mouth I ordered a batch of ten of these boats from
                        Art Rand's boat shop, on speculation, and bought some small ads. (Fig.
                        4) The ten sold out, and another ten, and another and another, and
                        another. The demand was scattered, but it was there. There were more
                        compliments, including one I'll treasure forever from Buckminster
                        Fuller. Palawan was seen to sail through Buzzards Bay with a brace of
                        them nested on deck. Ralph Wiley ordered one for the deck of a cruiser
                        he was building.

                        The modest success was nice, but I soon had enough of handling sales.
                        I tossed the business in Art Rand's lap and went off for a year to
                        work in Stanley Woodward's yacht yard in Mallorca. When I got back,
                        Art had got himself into a financial bind and gone out of business.
                        For vanity's sake, I wanted the design to stay in circulation, so I
                        drew the plans again and made a present of that version to Capt. Jim
                        Orrell, the Texas Dory man. He called it the Gloucester Gull and
                        circulated it nobly; I'd guess he must have sent out thousands of
                        plans. But we quarrelled over it: he got angry because I wouldn't draw
                        up a sailing rig and a motor well for it, and I lost my temper because
                        he went ahead and had somebody else do both over my objections. These
                        I thought, should have been respected, especially as my reasons were
                        that the modified version was somewhat dangerous as well as
                        inefficient.

                        When I was working up my book, "Small Boats, "I designed (for the
                        book)what was supposed to be an improved version, with longer entrance
                        lines, drew weight more concentrated to go better against a head sea,
                        and the construction supposedly cleaned up a little. (Fig. 5) This
                        version really is better, but not by much, and most people don't think
                        it's as good looking as the 1961 design, which just keeps on selling.

                        The absolute final version, as far as I'm concerned, is Type VI. (Fig.
                        6) This one was drawn up to Harold Payson's order. He both builds them
                        and sells the plans, which is the way it should be, ideally. I think
                        it must have been one of his boats in which the hero of "Swashbuckler"
                        pursued the heroine of that rather disappointing movie

                        I've spent a good deal of time in the past 10 or 15 years trying to
                        warn people that dories aren't the best solution for all nautical
                        problems. They need lofting and jigging preparation that make them
                        expensive to build one-off, and they're full of sharp bevels that make
                        them tricky for novice carpenters. All of them, and this one
                        especially, feel terribly tender, and they're hard to get into and out
                        of in consequence. They have a wild, bouncy motion in a seaway, which
                        keeps them dry but can do horrid things to your stomach. I've watched
                        one that was being towed behind a close-hauled sailboat in a strong
                        chop and a heavy rain, and her cork-screwing among the waves was
                        throwing the rainwater up and out of her bilge 6' in the air. Over in
                        England they've solved the stability problems of dories by bestowing
                        the name dory on copies of the Boston Whaler. S'truth!

                        Be that as it may, these light dories are not bad boats. I've several
                        times rowed 15 nautical miles in five hours, and more athletic types
                        have done much better than that in them. If a single oarsman has sense
                        enough to stay solidly planted on his or her butt, low in the boat,
                        these boats will go through a wicked-looking sea. And though it's not
                        hard to design a boat that will perform and behave better for most
                        purposes -- even in sheet plywood, let alone molded -- it's not at all
                        easy to make it as graceful to the eye.

                        This design seems likely to be the permanent monument to my erratic
                        career as a designer, and if so it will be mostly because one day in
                        November of 1961 I happened to bend a batten around a very pretty
                        sheerline indeed.
                      • Bruce Hallman
                        Also, the Letter to the Editor, and the SBJ retraction sheds light on the controversy of who owns the rights to the name Gloucester Gull .
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                          Also, the Letter to the Editor,
                          and the SBJ 'retraction' sheds
                          light on the controversy of who
                          owns the rights to the name
                          "Gloucester Gull".

                          http://hallman.org/JimOrrell.gif
                        • Philip Smith
                          Why cheat Phil Bolger out of $50? Why not buy the plans from PB&F? Shouldn t genius have some reward? Phil Smith ...
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                            Why cheat Phil Bolger out of $50? Why not buy the
                            plans from PB&F? Shouldn't genius have some reward?

                            Phil Smith

                            --- Nels <arvent@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "kaiguri"
                            > <kaiguri@y...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > ---Aloha! I looked in the database and the plans
                            > for the Light Dory
                            > > Type V, #265, 4.74m x 1.22m are available for $50
                            > from PB & F.
                            > > Mahalo, Randy
                            > >
                            > Free plans and panel layouts, for a Dory that can be
                            > built Stitch and
                            > Glue at the link below. If a person used one roof
                            > rack bracket on the
                            > cab, it could be carried in a pick-up truck.
                            >
                            > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm
                            >
                            > JB is member of this group.
                            >
                            > Cheers, Nels
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > --------------------~-->
                            > Give the gift of life to a sick child.
                            > Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's
                            > 'Thanks & Giving.'
                            >
                            http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/_0TolB/TM
                            >
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                            >
                            >
                            > Bolger rules!!!
                            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or
                            > flogging dead horses
                            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
                            > thanks, Fred' posts
                            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
                            > and snip away
                            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
                            > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > - Open discussion:
                            > bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            > bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Bruce Hallman
                            ... I ll try to say this delicately, with no offense intended to jmbell. But from a subjective aesthetic measure, comparing the voluptuous sweeping curves of
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                              > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm

                              I'll try to say this delicately, with no offense intended
                              to jmbell. But from a subjective aesthetic measure,
                              comparing the voluptuous sweeping curves of a Bolger
                              Light Dory to the Blackberry 14 is perhaps like comparing
                              Scarlett Johannson to Sheryl Crow?
                            • Stefan Gutermuth
                              You re analogy is completely subjective. I personally appreciate Sheryl s beauty, and find her artistic talent to be far superior to that other person,
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                                You're analogy is completely subjective. I personally appreciate Sheryl's
                                beauty, and find her artistic talent to be far superior to that other
                                person, (Scarlett Johannson).

                                Stefan Gutermuth, V.P.
                                John O'Hara Company
                                Ph: 973-673-4676
                                Fx: 973-673-7141
                                Cl: 201-970-8007
                                stefan@...


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
                                Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:21 PM
                                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Dory MK V?



                                > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm

                                I'll try to say this delicately, with no offense intended
                                to jmbell. But from a subjective aesthetic measure,
                                comparing the voluptuous sweeping curves of a Bolger
                                Light Dory to the Blackberry 14 is perhaps like comparing Scarlett Johannson
                                to Sheryl Crow?



                                Bolger rules!!!
                                - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                                - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
                                (978) 282-1349
                                - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • Bruce Hallman
                                ... Clearly subjective, as I wrote. I appreciate both those boats and both those people, each for different reasons! I m sorry if I implied otherwise.
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                                  > You're analogy is completely subjective.

                                  Clearly subjective, as I wrote.
                                  I appreciate both those boats
                                  and both those people,
                                  each for different reasons!
                                  I'm sorry if I implied otherwise.
                                • John Bell
                                  My Blackberry is supposed to be different from Bolger s dory. Both of the Blackberries were designed to be a little chunkier, with a little more initial
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                                    My Blackberry is supposed to be different from Bolger's dory. Both of the
                                    Blackberries were designed to be a little chunkier, with a little more
                                    initial stability to make the boat better for more relaxed pursuits like
                                    fishing.

                                    I'm not offended at all with the comparison. If you build my boat, great! If
                                    you build some one else's boat, great! No skin off my nose.

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
                                    To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:21 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Light Dory MK V?


                                    >
                                    > > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm
                                    >
                                    > I'll try to say this delicately, with no offense intended
                                    > to jmbell. But from a subjective aesthetic measure,
                                    > comparing the voluptuous sweeping curves of a Bolger
                                    > Light Dory to the Blackberry 14 is perhaps like comparing
                                    > Scarlett Johannson to Sheryl Crow?
                                    >
                                  • Peter Lenihan
                                    ... come on Bruce...quit being such a tease and tell us which one you have a crush on anyways? :-) Peter Lenihan
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                                      > > http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com/blackberry_14.htm
                                      >
                                      >comparing
                                      > Scarlett Johannson to Sheryl Crow?

                                      come on Bruce...quit being such a tease and tell us which one you
                                      have a crush on anyways? :-)

                                      Peter Lenihan
                                    • Nels
                                      ... My apologies, I did not realize my post would have such a deleterious effect on the group. I must have been delirious at the time:-) I thought I was only
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Philip Smith <pbs@w...> wrote:
                                        > Why cheat Phil Bolger out of $50? Why not buy the
                                        > plans from PB&F? Shouldn't genius have some reward?
                                        >
                                        > Phil Smith
                                        >
                                        My apologies, I did not realize my post would have such a deleterious
                                        effect on the group. I must have been delirious at the time:-)

                                        I thought I was only providing information to one who was interested
                                        in the stitch and glue option. Thank God I never mentioned Down East
                                        Dories!

                                        But it gave me a chance to use two words I don't normally get to use.

                                        Now I have to research the connection between all this and those two
                                        women Bruce is involved with:-)

                                        Cheers,

                                        Nels (Who's research seems to be unending.)
                                      • Nels
                                        ... Finished with my research. Because of the way Lestat has been constructed with no added floatation, for my deck crew I would have to choose the one who
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Mar 1, 2005
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                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > come on Bruce...quit being such a tease and tell us which one you
                                          > have a crush on anyways? :-)
                                          >
                                          > Peter Lenihan

                                          Finished with my research. Because of the way Lestat has been
                                          constructed with no added floatation, for my deck crew I would have
                                          to choose the one who seems to have the most. That would be Scarlett
                                          in my estimation.

                                          Now I wonder if I still need a winch as well?

                                          Cheers,

                                          Nels,
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