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Micro Sunny Sailing and Free Flooding Wisdom

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  • mannthree
    Just had the best day s sailing on the Harbour. Easterly winds 10 - 15 knots means a beat up the harbour from Lane Cove river. Clear blue sky, 27 Centigrade
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 29, 2005
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      Just had the best day's sailing on the Harbour. Easterly winds 10 -
      15 knots means a beat up the harbour from Lane Cove river. Clear blue
      sky, 27 Centigrade (85 F) tacking lazily and with a cautious eye
      through the fleets of racing boats towards the Bridge and Opera House,
      leaning up against the cuddy cabin of the Micro with one foot on the
      tiller, seated on the leeward side to help dig the chine in. She
      sails herself, and I am amazed at how all of the deceptively simple
      concepts in this design all come together. The cat yawl rig, no
      expensive fittings, wide expanse of cockpit, double berth in cuddy
      cabin, heaps of storage etc etc. The Micro fleet on Sydney Harbour
      will soon be increased by 100% as another is being built by Paul
      Connor who built a Clam Skiff a picture of which is in one of the
      Bolger group files.

      Anyway, my real purpose for posting is that after reading all the
      info on encapsulation and wood rot I began to wonder about the free
      flooding areas in my Micro which is permanently moored for quick
      sailing. My hull is sheathed in glass epoxy but the inside is just
      painted. I did glass the floor of the free flooding areas as well as
      give the sides a coat of epoxy. I also made sure that the drain holes
      were rimmed with thickened epoxy. I take my boat out of the water
      once a year on the trailer and repaint all fading or worn areas as
      well as inspecting closely the free flooding areas. I did cover the
      free flooding areas with a proprietory copper epoxy antifouling mix to
      stop growth ( I found a few shellfish type organisms growing once).
      The other thing that worryies is that a lot of dirt and sediment lies
      in the forward free flooding area. Can I have the collective wisdom
      of this group on the longevity of the Micro under these conditions and
      what others have found to alleviate any potential prblems. I have
      purchased the Micro II modifications and note that Bolger has
      essentiall eliminated the free flooding forward well by creating a
      self draining well with space for floatation under

      Regards to all frozen Northern Hemispherers from Sydney the Sunny
      Harbour City

      John Mann
    • Nels
      ... Yeah right - we know your real purpose was to gloat! Sounds like the perfect day for sailing a Micro. Seems almost sinful to have that much convenience in
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 29, 2005
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@i...> wrote:
        > Anyway, my real purpose for posting is that after reading all the
        > info on encapsulation and wood rot I began to wonder about the free
        > flooding areas in my Micro which is permanently moored for quick
        > sailing.
        -----------------------------------

        Yeah right - we know your real purpose was to gloat! Sounds like the
        perfect day for sailing a Micro. Seems almost sinful to have that
        much convenience in such an efficient package!
        --------------------------------------

        > The other thing that worryies is that a lot of dirt and sediment
        lies
        > in the forward free flooding area.
        -----------------------------------------

        Where is that stuff coming from John? Probably the anchor rode? Can't
        you just flush/mop it out? Or maybe arrange a plastic bucket for the
        dirty stuff?

        Perhaps one of those portable air pressure sprayers that gardeners
        use and put a bit of bio cleaner in it? Those sprayers can also
        double as a portable shower I have been told:-)

        Dirt and debris is not a problem when the ground is covered in two
        feet of snow

        Cheers, Nels
        (Dreaming of doing the same in a few short months from along the
        icebound Moose Jaw Creek.)
      • Roger Derby
        Do the areas in question have drain holes at the bottom? I ve been thinking a 1 hole at the bottom of the Chebacco s anchor stowage area (above the water
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 30, 2005
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          Do the areas in question have drain holes at the bottom? I've been thinking
          a 1" hole at the bottom of the Chebacco's anchor stowage area (above the
          water line) would be proper. A plastic flapper stapled on the outside might
          reduce the flooding while underway. The inside "bilge" for this area will
          be above the nominal WL.

          Roger (hibernating while it's 1 degree C outside with drizzle)
          derbyrm@...
          http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "mannthree" <johnmann@...>
          >
          <snip hateful gloat>
          >
          > Anyway, my real purpose for posting is that after reading all the
          > info on encapsulation and wood rot I began to wonder about the free
          > flooding areas in my Micro which is permanently moored for quick
          > sailing. My hull is sheathed in glass epoxy but the inside is just
          > painted. I did glass the floor of the free flooding areas as well as
          > give the sides a coat of epoxy. I also made sure that the drain holes
          > were rimmed with thickened epoxy. I take my boat out of the water
          > once a year on the trailer and repaint all fading or worn areas as
          > well as inspecting closely the free flooding areas. I did cover the
          > free flooding areas with a proprietory copper epoxy antifouling mix to
          > stop growth ( I found a few shellfish type organisms growing once).
          > The other thing that worryies is that a lot of dirt and sediment lies
          > in the forward free flooding area.
        • Nels
          ... thinking ... (above the ... outside might ... area will ... That s exactly how the well is finished in Lestat. The drains were drilled overisize and
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 30, 2005
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
            > Do the areas in question have drain holes at the bottom? I've been
            thinking
            > a 1" hole at the bottom of the Chebacco's anchor stowage area
            (above the
            > water line) would be proper. A plastic flapper stapled on the
            outside might
            > reduce the flooding while underway. The inside "bilge" for this
            area will
            > be above the nominal WL.
            >
            > Roger (hibernating while it's 1 degree C outside with drizzle)
            > derbyrm@s...

            That's exactly how the well is finished in Lestat. The drains were
            drilled overisize and completely epoxied over and then the 1" D hole
            was drilled in the center, leaving an epoxy protective "sleeve"
            around the hole. Then there are removable floorboards to form a level
            area for the potti and the rode is stored underneath the floorboards,
            and the chain and anchor in a plastic bucket.

            There is no foam floatation as Bolger specifies, at either end of the
            boat, so it is easy to visually inspect these areas and keep them
            clean. And they are "self-rinsing" in use:-)

            If I feel the need for additional floatation, I will line the cabin
            roof, (which also prevents condensation.) and carry an inflatable
            mattress in the hold.

            The latest upgrades to Micro show the bottom floor of the well
            completely sealed and a drain for the well on each side right up in
            the bow.

            Will be interesting to see what PCB does with the upgraded Chebacco.

            1 C eh? Almost time to get the paint pots out:-)

            Cheers, Nels
          • mannthree
            ... bottom of each free flooding area at the intersection of the bulkhead and side. As the boat moves through the water or rocks on its mooring water moves in
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 30, 2005
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
              > The Micro's drain holes are about 0.75"-1" diam and are in the
              bottom of each free flooding area at the intersection of the bulkhead
              and side. As the boat moves through the water or rocks on its mooring
              water moves in and out of these holes. Dirt comes from many sources,
              dust from the air, seabird s**t, water sediment etc etc. I'm not
              entirely convinced of the benefits of the free flooding compartments
              for a boat permanently moored, but only time will tell. I think that
              if the floor of the compartment is above the waterline and the
              compartment is sealed with epoxy glass with sufficient drainholes,
              this would minimise any problems.


              Do the areas in question have drain holes at the bottom? I've been
              thinking
              > a 1" hole at the bottom of the Chebacco's anchor stowage area (above
              the
              > water line) would be proper. A plastic flapper stapled on the
              outside might
              > reduce the flooding while underway. The inside "bilge" for this
              area will
              > be above the nominal WL.
              >
              > Roger (hibernating while it's 1 degree C outside with drizzle)
              > derbyrm@s...
              > http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "mannthree" <johnmann@i...>
              > >
              > <snip hateful gloat>
              > >
              > > Anyway, my real purpose for posting is that after reading all the
              > > info on encapsulation and wood rot I began to wonder about the free
              > > flooding areas in my Micro which is permanently moored for quick
              > > sailing. My hull is sheathed in glass epoxy but the inside is just
              > > painted. I did glass the floor of the free flooding areas as well as
              > > give the sides a coat of epoxy. I also made sure that the drain holes
              > > were rimmed with thickened epoxy. I take my boat out of the water
              > > once a year on the trailer and repaint all fading or worn areas as
              > > well as inspecting closely the free flooding areas. I did cover the
              > > free flooding areas with a proprietory copper epoxy antifouling mix to
              > > stop growth ( I found a few shellfish type organisms growing once).
              > > The other thing that worryies is that a lot of dirt and sediment lies
              > > in the forward free flooding area.
            • Peter Lenihan
              ... I began to wonder about the free ... Sydney the Sunny ... Hi John, What a delightful read! It certainly brought me back to many fine,fine memories with my
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 31, 2005
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@i...> wrote:
                >
                I began to wonder about the free
                > flooding areas in my Micro which is permanently moored for quick
                > sailing. > Regards to all frozen Northern Hemispherers from
                Sydney the Sunny
                > Harbour City
                >
                > John Mann

                Hi John,
                What a delightful read! It certainly brought me back to many
                fine,fine memories with my old Micro LESTAT.The conditions you
                describe,windwise, are the charm numbers for the Micro.Your whole
                attitude,while sailing,is to be lauded,
                for it is indeed this relaxed posture which the Micro can so easily
                induce in mere mortals.
                My only real concern addresses your health...hydralically
                speaking.Nowhere do you mention the location of your cooler nor the
                frequency of its' use.Modern medicine has long since concluded the
                need to remain well hydrated to avoid serious health issues.The best
                way to do so,according to them pro's,is to use a pro-active
                approach.That is;do not wait until you feel thirsty,begin hydrating
                early in the day,maintain a steady rate of flow until well after
                sunset or sedation....This has always worked extremely well for
                myself,especially on those days with a slight overcast,where one can
                be lulled into a false sense of security since the suns true effects
                appear diminished.Be wary! Hydrate early:-)

                As to the drain holes in the free-flooding wells of the
                Micro:Your description of them is similar to the ones installed on
                LESTAT.However,I did not fiberglass the inside,only sealing with
                epoxy sealer(Industrial Formulators S-1 sealer). I also did not
                install the foam insulation,per plan,instead opting for max.internal
                volumes. At the height of the foam indicated on the plans,I
                installed a mahogany plywood sole with lift out sections to give
                access to the anchor and rhode,stored under this sole.( I suspect
                the bucket Nels refers to is the "head"..5 gallon bucket with snap-
                on toilet seat cover..not for anchor and rhode storage Nels ;-0)

                My boat was kept in the water six months per year and stored on
                frozen land for the other six months.Mind you,this is not salt
                water,with that rich ragu of flora and fauna but so called fresh
                water.Here it is a rich toxic blend of chemicals and about the only
                critter that became notorious for grief was/is the itsy-bitsy Zebra
                mussel.Famed for cloggin' up city water intakes,marine engine
                cooling intakes and clearing up the water of all suspended
                particules, these little bastards are too small to make a proper
                meal,unlike their delicious and much bigger relatives....

                Dust,dirt,weeds and mud are all perfect things to be found in
                the free flooding wells and this is why them little holes you
                installed are there.Unless something is"not quite right",these drain
                holes should be an inch or two ABOVE the static waterline when left
                at either a mooring or quay.Thus,a nice rain shower assists greatly
                in keeping the wells clean,sweet and clear.This is also great for
                taking a shower up forward as all soap and body crud get washed down
                the drains once one returns to the cockpit.

                Complete and total lack of any floatation is also a great and
                strong motivator toward practicing good seamanship as the
                consequences of recklessness may result in the total lose of the
                boat,at worse, or a cold wet dunking in shallow water with onlookers
                pissing themselves with laughter on the beach....:-(

                To the best of my knowledge, that travellin' praire pirate Nels
                has not encountered any grief with his micro bottom....ex LESTAT!

                And so I ask, is your Micro floating to her lines?

                Sincerely,
                Peter Lenihan
              • mannthree
                ... Peter, You are absolutely correct that a cool beer sipped leasurely whilst leaning back in the cockpit of the Micro is definitely my definition of Heaven
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 31, 2005
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...> wrote:
                  >


                  Peter,

                  You are absolutely correct that a cool beer sipped leasurely whilst
                  leaning back in the cockpit of the Micro is definitely my definition
                  of Heaven on Earth. The Micro is such good sailor that one rarely
                  spills any of the liquid amber due to having to perform frantic
                  tacking antics that seem to be happening amongst the racing fleets. I
                  am continuously amazed that they all seem to be in a bloody great
                  hurry to get to that next buoy and to "starboard" out any opposition
                  who happen to be in their way. Sydney harbour can be a Microcosm of
                  life in any big city with people full of testosterone, attitude and in
                  a hurry to get nowhere, but I still love the place.

                  The drain holes in Time Out are above the water line at rest. Having
                  said that, I think that I could do with a little more ballast as when
                  a get an extra 100 kilos (220lbs) in the boat she does stand up better
                  in a blow, plus she seems to "bounce" around less in a harbour chop.
                  Also when I tie up at the mooring, I notice that she's a bit stem
                  bown, stern up due to the weight of the mooring chain and rope. This
                  may cause the forward free flooding area to be flooded more than usual,

                  Cheers,

                  John
                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@i...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > I began to wonder about the free
                  > > flooding areas in my Micro which is permanently moored for quick
                  > > sailing. > Regards to all frozen Northern Hemispherers from
                  > Sydney the Sunny
                  > > Harbour City
                  > >
                  > > John Mann
                  >
                  > Hi John,
                  > What a delightful read! It certainly brought me back to many
                  > fine,fine memories with my old Micro LESTAT.The conditions you
                  > describe,windwise, are the charm numbers for the Micro.Your whole
                  > attitude,while sailing,is to be lauded,
                  > for it is indeed this relaxed posture which the Micro can so easily
                  > induce in mere mortals.
                  > My only real concern addresses your health...hydralically
                  > speaking.Nowhere do you mention the location of your cooler nor the
                  > frequency of its' use.Modern medicine has long since concluded the
                  > need to remain well hydrated to avoid serious health issues.The best
                  > way to do so,according to them pro's,is to use a pro-active
                  > approach.That is;do not wait until you feel thirsty,begin hydrating
                  > early in the day,maintain a steady rate of flow until well after
                  > sunset or sedation....This has always worked extremely well for
                  > myself,especially on those days with a slight overcast,where one can
                  > be lulled into a false sense of security since the suns true effects
                  > appear diminished.Be wary! Hydrate early:-)
                  >
                  > As to the drain holes in the free-flooding wells of the
                  > Micro:Your description of them is similar to the ones installed on
                  > LESTAT.However,I did not fiberglass the inside,only sealing with
                  > epoxy sealer(Industrial Formulators S-1 sealer). I also did not
                  > install the foam insulation,per plan,instead opting for max.internal
                  > volumes. At the height of the foam indicated on the plans,I
                  > installed a mahogany plywood sole with lift out sections to give
                  > access to the anchor and rhode,stored under this sole.( I suspect
                  > the bucket Nels refers to is the "head"..5 gallon bucket with snap-
                  > on toilet seat cover..not for anchor and rhode storage Nels ;-0)
                  >
                  > My boat was kept in the water six months per year and stored on
                  > frozen land for the other six months.Mind you,this is not salt
                  > water,with that rich ragu of flora and fauna but so called fresh
                  > water.Here it is a rich toxic blend of chemicals and about the only
                  > critter that became notorious for grief was/is the itsy-bitsy Zebra
                  > mussel.Famed for cloggin' up city water intakes,marine engine
                  > cooling intakes and clearing up the water of all suspended
                  > particules, these little bastards are too small to make a proper
                  > meal,unlike their delicious and much bigger relatives....
                  >
                  > Dust,dirt,weeds and mud are all perfect things to be found in
                  > the free flooding wells and this is why them little holes you
                  > installed are there.Unless something is"not quite right",these drain
                  > holes should be an inch or two ABOVE the static waterline when left
                  > at either a mooring or quay.Thus,a nice rain shower assists greatly
                  > in keeping the wells clean,sweet and clear.This is also great for
                  > taking a shower up forward as all soap and body crud get washed down
                  > the drains once one returns to the cockpit.
                  >
                  > Complete and total lack of any floatation is also a great and
                  > strong motivator toward practicing good seamanship as the
                  > consequences of recklessness may result in the total lose of the
                  > boat,at worse, or a cold wet dunking in shallow water with onlookers
                  > pissing themselves with laughter on the beach....:-(
                  >
                  > To the best of my knowledge, that travellin' praire pirate Nels
                  > has not encountered any grief with his micro bottom....ex LESTAT!
                  >
                  > And so I ask, is your Micro floating to her lines?
                  >
                  > Sincerely,
                  > Peter Lenihan
                • Peter Lenihan
                  ... This ... usual, ... John, I see the problem now,says the blind man :-D Perhaps you just need to put a mooring float at the upper end of your mooring chain
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 1 3:14 AM
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@i...> wrote:
                    > Also when I tie up at the mooring, I notice that she's a bit stem
                    > bown, stern up due to the weight of the mooring chain and rope.
                    This
                    > may cause the forward free flooding area to be flooded more than
                    usual,
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    >
                    > John

                    John,

                    I see the problem now,says the blind man :-D
                    Perhaps you just need to put a mooring float at the upper end of
                    your mooring chain thus relieving the stem of having to float that
                    weight of the chain thus it has only to support the weight of the
                    line or rope used to secure yourself to the float.
                    Of course,it may not be so straight forward as there may well be
                    other reasons why your mooring is set up as it is.
                    A good sized cooler,loaded with glass bottles filled with juice
                    sure adds some good weight and multiple coolers add up to moveable
                    ballast to always keep your Micro in "perfect" sailing trim :-)
                    Glad to here that you are/have discovered the simple,easy method of
                    taking your leisure on the water.
                    It was -3 C. here yesterday,almost t-shirt weather,by golly!Can
                    summer be that close? And if it is that close,that can only mean you
                    had better get in the maximum number of days on board 'cause winter
                    is slowly headed your way......my sympathies.....:-D

                    Sincerely,

                    Peter Lenihan,one bottle short for a case,from along the its'-almost-
                    too-good-to-be-true-thawing shores of the St.Lawrence...........
                  • Will Samson
                    Not sure I ve fully grasped this, but if It s what I think then I had a similar situation with my Chebacco, which was also a tad nose-down at the mooring. As
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 1 3:36 AM
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                      Not sure I've fully grasped this, but if It's what I think then I had a similar situation with my Chebacco, which was also a tad nose-down at the mooring. As Peter suggests, I had my mooring chain terminate at a big inflatable float, and a couple of stout mooring strops (Nylon) from the top of the chain to the stem of the boat. Why two strops? Well, if one happened to chafe through in a storm, the other would still be there to keep things together until I had a chance to get out and do some replacement.

                      Having done all that, the Chebacco was still an inch or two down by the bows, but trimmed nicely when I heaved my vast bulk into the cockpit.

                      I wonder if there's some way of tying on an inflatable fender under the forefoot, at the mooring, to float it a little higher? I'm sure I've heard of people doing that with Micros and Jessies; I think Chuck Merrell called it a 'training bra'. It has the welcome side effect of reducing pounding at anchor.

                      Bill
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Peter Lenihan
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:14 AM
                      Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro Sunny Sailing and Free Flooding Wisdom



                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@i...> wrote:
                      > Also when I tie up at the mooring, I notice that she's a bit stem
                      > bown, stern up due to the weight of the mooring chain and rope.
                      This
                      > may cause the forward free flooding area to be flooded more than
                      usual,
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      >
                      > John

                      John,

                      I see the problem now,says the blind man :-D
                      Perhaps you just need to put a mooring float at the upper end of
                      your mooring chain thus relieving the stem of having to float that
                      weight of the chain thus it has only to support the weight of the
                      line or rope used to secure yourself to the float.
                      . . .

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • mannthree
                      ... Thanks for the advice on the mooring lines. I m going to wait until April (Autumn) when I slip the Micro to antifoul her and tart her up for WINTER
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 1 8:29 PM
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...> wrote:
                        > Peter and Will,

                        Thanks for the advice on the mooring lines. I'm going to wait until
                        April (Autumn) when I slip the Micro to antifoul her and tart her up
                        for WINTER sailing,

                        Cheers,

                        John
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@i...> wrote:
                        > > Also when I tie up at the mooring, I notice that she's a bit stem
                        > > bown, stern up due to the weight of the mooring chain and rope.
                        > This
                        > > may cause the forward free flooding area to be flooded more than
                        > usual,
                        > >
                        > > Cheers,
                        > >
                        > > John
                        >
                        > John,
                        >
                        > I see the problem now,says the blind man :-D
                        > Perhaps you just need to put a mooring float at the upper end of
                        > your mooring chain thus relieving the stem of having to float that
                        > weight of the chain thus it has only to support the weight of the
                        > line or rope used to secure yourself to the float.
                        > Of course,it may not be so straight forward as there may well be
                        > other reasons why your mooring is set up as it is.
                        > A good sized cooler,loaded with glass bottles filled with juice
                        > sure adds some good weight and multiple coolers add up to moveable
                        > ballast to always keep your Micro in "perfect" sailing trim :-)
                        > Glad to here that you are/have discovered the simple,easy method of
                        > taking your leisure on the water.
                        > It was -3 C. here yesterday,almost t-shirt weather,by golly!Can
                        > summer be that close? And if it is that close,that can only mean you
                        > had better get in the maximum number of days on board 'cause winter
                        > is slowly headed your way......my sympathies.....:-D
                        >
                        > Sincerely,
                        >
                        > Peter Lenihan,one bottle short for a case,from along the its'-almost-
                        > too-good-to-be-true-thawing shores of the St.Lawrence...........
                      • Will Samson
                        ... From: mannthree ... Remember to armour the forefoot with steel plates to break the ice ;-) Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 1 11:10 PM
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                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: mannthree

                          > I'm going to wait until
                          > April (Autumn) when I slip the Micro to antifoul her and tart her up
                          > for WINTER sailing,

                          Remember to armour the forefoot with steel plates to break the ice ;-)

                          Bill

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • mannthree
                          ... No ice on Sydney Harbour in winter, Cheers, John
                          Message 12 of 12 , Feb 2 6:09 PM
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                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
                            > Bill,

                            No ice on Sydney Harbour in winter,

                            Cheers,

                            John
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: mannthree
                            >
                            > > I'm going to wait until
                            > > April (Autumn) when I slip the Micro to antifoul her and tart her up
                            > > for WINTER sailing,
                            >
                            > Remember to armour the forefoot with steel plates to break the ice ;-)
                            >
                            > Bill
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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