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carbon fibre option for small masts and sprits

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  • dnjost
    Here is an interesting idea for small boats that many builders may have shyed away from. http://www.lmorocz.com/BoatBuilding/krakenbait.htm According to the
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 31, 2004
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      Here is an interesting idea for small boats that many builders may
      have shyed away from.
      http://www.lmorocz.com/BoatBuilding/krakenbait.htm

      According to the supplier, you can build up to a 17' mast using
      this, pricey, yet viable method.

      Happy Building
      David Jost
    • Will Samson
      Sounds like an eminently sensible way to spend a few hundred dollars, especially if you ve tried routinely raising and lowering a large, unstayed mast.
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 31, 2004
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        Sounds like an eminently sensible way to spend a few hundred dollars, especially if you've tried routinely raising and lowering a large, unstayed mast.

        Incendentally, Nigel Irens's Roxanne and Romilly both have unstayed carbon fibre masts and spars for their high aspect ratio lugsails - so it works!

        If I had my time again . . . witter, mumble . . .

        Bill
        From: dnjost
        Here is an interesting idea for small boats that many builders may
        have shyed away from.
        http://www.lmorocz.com/BoatBuilding/krakenbait.htm

        According to the supplier, you can build up to a 17' mast using
        this, pricey, yet viable method.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Harry James
        I found this a very interesting kit. I am surprised my google searches hadn t turned this kit up before. Are the Roxanne and Romilly masts home made or
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 31, 2004
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          I found this a very interesting kit. I am surprised my google searches
          hadn't turned this kit up before. Are the Roxanne and Romilly masts
          home made or production spars? There is very little on the web on
          building your own carbon fiber spars. I think it would be neat addition
          to a Black Skimmer.

          HJ

          Will Samson wrote:

          >Sounds like an eminently sensible way to spend a few hundred dollars, especially if you've tried routinely raising and lowering a large, unstayed mast.
          >
          >Incendentally, Nigel Irens's Roxanne and Romilly both have unstayed carbon fibre masts and spars for their high aspect ratio lugsails - so it works!
          >
          >If I had my time again . . . witter, mumble . . .
          >
          >Bill
          > From: dnjost
          > Here is an interesting idea for small boats that many builders may
          > have shyed away from.
          > http://www.lmorocz.com/BoatBuilding/krakenbait.htm
          >
          > According to the supplier, you can build up to a 17' mast using
          > this, pricey, yet viable method.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • dnjost
          My thoughts exactly...after spending a season raising and lowering Micro s mast, I thought that this may be a viable solution to the problem of hefting that
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 31, 2004
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            My thoughts exactly...after spending a season raising and lowering
            Micro's mast, I thought that this may be a viable solution to the
            problem of hefting that 23' pile of laminated spruce. May be good
            for Chebacco owners as well!

            David Jost

            > >
            > >
            > >
          • Will Samson
            The Roxanne and Romilly spars are production models. Still, what do they know? All together now: We are the bolgeristas, Happy boys and gals! . . . ;-)
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 31, 2004
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              The Roxanne and Romilly spars are production models. Still, what do they know? All together now:

              "We are the bolgeristas,
              Happy boys and gals! . . ."

              ;-)

              Bill

              PS Just turned Midnight here, so Happy New Year frae Bonnie Scotland!!

              PPS And good riddance to 2004, one of the most Annus Horribilises ever! ( - for me at least!)
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Harry James
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 10:45 PM
              Subject: Re: [bolger] carbon fibre option for small masts and sprits


              I found this a very interesting kit. I am surprised my google searches
              hadn't turned this kit up before. Are the Roxanne and Romilly masts
              home made or production spars? There is very little on the web on
              building your own carbon fiber spars. I think it would be neat addition
              to a Black Skimmer.

              HJ

              Will Samson wrote:

              >Sounds like an eminently sensible way to spend a few hundred dollars, especially if you've tried routinely raising and lowering a large, unstayed mast.
              >
              >Incendentally, Nigel Irens's Roxanne and Romilly both have unstayed carbon fibre masts and spars for their high aspect ratio lugsails - so it works!
              >
              >If I had my time again . . . witter, mumble . . .
              >
              >Bill
              > From: dnjost
              > Here is an interesting idea for small boats that many builders may
              > have shyed away from.
              > http://www.lmorocz.com/BoatBuilding/krakenbait.htm
              >
              > According to the supplier, you can build up to a 17' mast using
              > this, pricey, yet viable method.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              Bolger rules!!!
              - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
              - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
              - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dbaldnz
              ... Great post David. This is the answer for a new Micro Navigator mast, a far better prospect in every way (except previously, cost) than timber or
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 31, 2004
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                >
                > Here is an interesting idea for small boats that many builders may
                > have shyed away from.
                > http://www.lmorocz.com/BoatBuilding/krakenbait.htm
                >
                > According to the supplier, you can build up to a 17' mast using
                > this, pricey, yet viable method.
                >
                > Happy Building
                > David Jost

                Great post David.
                This is the answer for a new Micro Navigator mast, a far better
                prospect in every way (except previously, cost) than timber or
                aluminium.. I got quotes for prof . made straight tubes, but it was
                prohibitive at the time. Looks like your home construction is the answer.
                DonB
              • Peter Lenihan
                ... dollars, especially if you ve tried routinely raising and lowering a large, unstayed mast. Aye,t s a very sensible thing indeed but very sad too! For where
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 2, 2005
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
                  > Sounds like an eminently sensible way to spend a few hundred
                  dollars, especially if you've tried routinely raising and lowering a
                  large, unstayed mast.

                  Aye,t's a very sensible thing indeed but very sad too! For where
                  now will the manly art of heaving timber spars around go to,I ask?
                  Surely no one can deny the awesome beauty witnessed in the tossing
                  of ye olde caber nor the impressive display of brute,manly muscle,
                  enjoyed by most audiences to local(North American) lumber jack
                  competitions!?
                  No more will we men be able to impress some wee lassy with heart
                  stopping feats of physical finesse as we casually mention to her
                  that we'll be ready to go for a sail as soon as you"raise the
                  stick". Ah yes matey,there are few things more primeval then when a
                  man can put hand to wood and successfully wrestle it upright!
                  Perhaps more impressive still is not only the eye-brow raising
                  display of male strength but also the extreme tenderness diplayed as
                  one lowers and lays the monster(spar) to bed.This always gets the
                  gals worked up with fevered fantasies of experiencing some of that
                  force applied to themselves :-)
                  Now don't go reading this all wrong! I have nothing against
                  technology,especially if it applies to boats. But after seeing the
                  pictures of the high-tech home built tube(spar is way too noble a
                  term for this thing), I immediately noticed that I had no desire
                  to "reach out and touch it".Its black,stealthy appearance left me
                  feeling cold and a wee bit afeared of it too.The fact it almost
                  ressembles a giant probe didn't help much either! Just imagine this
                  light weight wonder of technology,capable of being handled by anyone
                  of the fairer sex, falling into the hands of an aggrieved crew
                  member?!About the best a man could do in such straits would be to
                  never turn his back to her!
                  I fear we risk becoming nothing more then a heap of puddin' if
                  we let pass the age old tradition of shaping our own spars out of
                  this earths own wood.Few things can match the aroma of freshly
                  shaved spruce as our plane sings another sliver off our future
                  spar.Few things,that is, other then the magical spectacle of fine
                  saw dust caught floating around in a golden beam of sunlight as we
                  gently sand out the last of the roughness in our spar. And then
                  comes the spar varnish! What a treat for the nostrils that is and
                  what a treat for the eyes as we watch it penetrate the spruce adding
                  depth and richness where only paleness lay before. When all our
                  labour is done, we are rewarded yet again by our spars alluring
                  presence which calls out to us and says,"touch me"......
                  Aye, I challenge anyone to find even an ounce of beauty in that
                  evil high-tech cousin of a spar! I doubt the critter even knows how
                  to speak our own language,cold evil thing that it is!


                  Sincerely,

                  Peter Lenihan, longing for the feeling of real wood,any wood,in his
                  hands.........
                • dnjost
                  Ah Peter, it must be the winter doldrums speaking out loud from the hoary frost on the banks of the St. Lawrence. Only 60 more days of winter madness to
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 2, 2005
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                    Ah Peter, it must be the winter doldrums speaking out loud from the
                    hoary frost on the banks of the St. Lawrence. Only 60 more days of
                    winter madness to endure. The banks of the Charles are also too
                    frozen to encourage any sane use of watercraft by sensible people.

                    Down here in Beantown, the only disadvantage us yankees would
                    immediately focus on is the price difference. $100 for a custom set
                    of construction grade wood spars vs. close to $600 US for both the
                    Main and Mizzen and that is for materials only.

                    I too prefer working with planes and wood shavings rather than
                    playing with glass and goop, but the weight to strength ratio would
                    be significant! I wouldn't mind asking my crew to to erect the mast
                    every now and then if it weren't such a brutish job to do. This was
                    much easier when I was younger. However, once it's up...I feel
                    obliged to make the best of each effort and savor each moment to
                    make lasting memories.

                    Windemere is looking great! How many gallons of glop and goo have
                    you used so far? It looks as if you have cornered the market.

                    Happy Building.
                    David Jost
                  • Will Samson
                    This always gets the gals worked up with fevered fantasies of experiencing some of that force applied to themselves :-) Och, hoot toot mon, maister Lenihan!
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 2, 2005
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                      This always gets the
                      gals worked up with fevered fantasies of experiencing some of that
                      force applied to themselves :-)
                      Och, hoot toot mon, maister Lenihan! Wi' a mannie my age it would be an awfu' waste of fevered fantasies. As ma auld faither used to say, "It's a peety that when the Lord taks awa' the ability, he disnae tak awa the notion o't at the same time . . ."

                      Na-na! I'd be better aff having nae hernias, despite the attractions of the heft of a fine thick spruce mast standing up there, magnificent and wi' nae veesible means of support (or so the lassies tell me).

                      Onywey, it remains but tae wish a' the loons and quines in the group a braw New Year!

                      Yous in seemly sobriety,

                      Bill (a.k.a. 'Wullie' in the hills and glens)

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jamie Orr
                      Weel pit, oor Wullie. A Happy New Year to all indeed. Jamie ... that ... would be an awfu waste of fevered fantasies. As ma auld faither used to say, It s a
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 2, 2005
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                        Weel pit, oor Wullie.

                        A Happy New Year to all indeed.

                        Jamie

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
                        > This always gets the
                        > gals worked up with fevered fantasies of experiencing some of
                        that
                        > force applied to themselves :-)
                        > Och, hoot toot mon, maister Lenihan! Wi' a mannie my age it
                        would be an awfu' waste of fevered fantasies. As ma auld faither
                        used to say, "It's a peety that when the Lord taks awa' the ability,
                        he disnae tak awa the notion o't at the same time . . ."
                        >
                        > Na-na! I'd be better aff having nae hernias, despite the
                        attractions of the heft of a fine thick spruce mast standing up
                        there, magnificent and wi' nae veesible means of support (or so the
                        lassies tell me).
                        >
                        > Onywey, it remains but tae wish a' the loons and quines in the
                        group a braw New Year!
                        >
                        > Yous in seemly sobriety,
                        >
                        > Bill (a.k.a. 'Wullie' in the hills and glens)
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Will Samson
                        Ye ken aboot Oor Wullie! I m greatly impressed! Wull ... From: Jamie Orr To: bolger@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 6:07 PM Subject: [bolger]
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 2, 2005
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                          Ye ken aboot Oor Wullie!

                          I'm greatly impressed!

                          Wull
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Jamie Orr
                          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 6:07 PM
                          Subject: [bolger] Re: carbon fibre option for small masts and sprits



                          Weel pit, oor Wullie.

                          A Happy New Year to all indeed.

                          Jamie

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
                          > This always gets the
                          > gals worked up with fevered fantasies of experiencing some of
                          that
                          > force applied to themselves :-)
                          > Och, hoot toot mon, maister Lenihan! Wi' a mannie my age it
                          would be an awfu' waste of fevered fantasies. As ma auld faither
                          used to say, "It's a peety that when the Lord taks awa' the ability,
                          he disnae tak awa the notion o't at the same time . . ."
                          >
                          > Na-na! I'd be better aff having nae hernias, despite the
                          attractions of the heft of a fine thick spruce mast standing up
                          there, magnificent and wi' nae veesible means of support (or so the
                          lassies tell me).
                          >
                          > Onywey, it remains but tae wish a' the loons and quines in the
                          group a braw New Year!
                          >
                          > Yous in seemly sobriety,
                          >
                          > Bill (a.k.a. 'Wullie' in the hills and glens)
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          Bolger rules!!!
                          - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                          - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                          - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                          - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                          - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jamie Orr
                          Hi Gang, Just in from my first sail of the year. Wayward Lass is still waiting for her new mast so I borrowed the boy s elegant punt Creamsicle . Hard to
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 2, 2005
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                            Hi Gang,

                            Just in from my first sail of the year. Wayward Lass is still
                            waiting for her new mast so I borrowed the boy's elegant
                            punt "Creamsicle".

                            Hard to find enough room to get comfortable with 240 pounds and bad
                            knees, but managed to find the groove a few times on both the good
                            and bad tacks. Having the leeboard on the opposite side to the sprit
                            boom seemed to work best and evened out the performance.

                            Almost swamped once when I lost the wind suddenly. Had my weight
                            well to windward, and when the wind stopped pushing, water started
                            pouring in over that gunwale -- thought she was going to fill before
                            I could get centred, but managed to make it. Swimming ashore is not
                            a safe option in our cold waters! A few minutes work with the bailer
                            put the ocean back in its place.

                            Also found things unstable when running. Might have been because I
                            had more wind than I really wanted, 10 knots felt like a gale. Much
                            happier with about 5.

                            Stopped for lunch on a sheltered beach, drank a short hot rum to the
                            coming year. Things are looking good so far!

                            Coming back I unshipped both rudder and leeboard and steered with an
                            oar (in its regular place but trailing back). I'd started upwind, so
                            coming home I had the wind over my shoulder -- and it had dropped a
                            bit. Anyway, that was really nice because I could sail right in to
                            the beach. Going to have to change the rudder to a kick up version
                            for the future. And it's awkward getting the pin in while bobbing
                            around the ocean in any case.

                            Made two resolutions while I was out there -- get the new mast
                            finished soon and drop 40 pounds!

                            Cheers,

                            Jamie

                            (Aye Bill, and I ken aboot the Broons tae. Grannie used to send The
                            Sunday Post up to Orkney every week. Jings!)

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
                            > Ye ken aboot Oor Wullie!
                            >
                            > I'm greatly impressed!
                            >
                            > Wull
                          • Peter Lenihan
                            ... Truer words have not been spoken! ;-) ... Hi David,Thanks! I haven t an accurate tally but it must be several gallons certainly to date. I ll have to get
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 3, 2005
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                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                              >However, once it's up...I feel
                              > obliged to make the best of each effort and savor each moment to
                              > make lasting memories.

                              Truer words have not been spoken! ;-)





                              > Windemere is looking great! How many gallons of glop and goo have
                              > you used so far? It looks as if you have cornered the market.


                              Hi David,Thanks! I haven't an accurate tally but it must be several
                              gallons certainly to date. I'll have to get back to you on that
                              one,once I've got all my bills in order.The bulk of the epoxy use
                              however,is yet to come since neither the outside nor inside have
                              been treated with it so far nor has the rood been installed.
                              Have you built a model of your next boat? Are you still considering
                              one of the bigger Bolger Boxes? I sure hope so :-)

                              Have a nice winter and lets hope for an early Spring.....we're all
                              getting to old to put up with the white stuff and all its' delays to
                              proper boating fun!

                              Sincerely,

                              Peter Lenihan,who can now swear that he feels the days growing
                              long......yippee!
                            • Peter Lenihan
                              ... would be an awfu waste of fevered fantasies. As ma auld faither used to say, It s a peety that when the Lord taks awa the ability, he disnae tak awa
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 3, 2005
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                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Will Samson" <willsamson@y...> wrote:
                                > Och, hoot toot mon, maister Lenihan! Wi' a mannie my age it
                                would be an awfu' waste of fevered fantasies. As ma auld faither
                                used to say, "It's a peety that when the Lord taks awa' the ability,
                                he disnae tak awa the notion o't at the same time . . ."
                                >
                                > Na-na! I'd be better aff having nae hernias, despite the
                                attractions of the heft of a fine thick spruce mast standing up
                                there, magnificent and wi' nae veesible means of support (or so the
                                lassies tell me).
                                >
                                > Onywey, it remains but tae wish a' the loons and quines in the
                                group a braw New Year!
                                >
                                > Yous in seemly sobriety,
                                >
                                > Bill (a.k.a. 'Wullie' in the hills and glens)


                                Sir Wullie,
                                LOL!!!Awefully glad to read you took it all in good
                                spirits.Never know when one might be getting the wrong ideas at the
                                right times :-)

                                All the best to your and yours too in this New Year!!

                                Sincerely,

                                Peter"three sheets to the wind" Lenihan....
                              • Nels
                                ... The bulk of the epoxy use ... Hi Peter, Where are you planning to install the rood? Right next to the captains bed I suppose and alongside the invisible
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jan 3, 2005
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                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  The bulk of the epoxy use
                                  > however,is yet to come since neither the outside nor inside have
                                  > been treated with it so far nor has the rood been installed.

                                  Hi Peter,

                                  Where are you planning to install the rood? Right next to the
                                  captains bed I suppose and alongside the invisible rope chest?

                                  When I observe Windermer's beautiful bottom with box keel and that
                                  absolutely magnifique centerboard I can't help but wonder if it is
                                  still not too late to lower that deckhouse height, add a small
                                  pilothouse, maybe some extra batteries for ballest, and install two
                                  beautifully hand-carved eastern spruce masts! Just imagine how much
                                  glop you will save, let alone the cost of all that interior plumbing,
                                  cabinetry, glitz and glitter, hot tub and expensive motor.

                                  All you need is a bucket, a hammock and a big cooler mate! You could
                                  be out sailing along the shores of the mighty St. Lawrence, in the
                                  schooner Windermere by the time most the ice is out. And all you will
                                  need is the T9.9 Yam and you wouldn't have to stop once you reached
                                  the ocean.

                                  Quite this "estuary cruiser" nonsence before it is too late!

                                  Best of the Year To Ya!,

                                  Nels
                                  From along the shores of Moose Jaw Creek, where the temperature has
                                  risen 10 degrees to a balmy -25.
                                • Peter Lenihan
                                  ... Hi Pirate Nels! Well,I should have checked my terrible spelling first,thus rood would have been corrected to read roof :-) I plan on keeping the
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jan 4, 2005
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                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
                                    > Where are you planning to install the rood? Right next to the
                                    > captains bed I suppose and alongside the invisible rope chest?



                                    Hi Pirate Nels!

                                    Well,I should have checked my terrible spelling first,thus
                                    rood would have been corrected to read "roof" :-) I plan on keeping
                                    the invisible rope chest on the bottom of one of the closets in the
                                    stateroom......that way "they" can be lured into the right setting
                                    for such antics :-D



                                    >
                                    > When I observe Windermer's beautiful bottom with box keel and that
                                    > absolutely magnifique centerboard I can't help but wonder if it is
                                    > still not too late to lower that deckhouse height, add a small
                                    > pilothouse, maybe some extra batteries for ballest, and install
                                    two
                                    > beautifully hand-carved eastern spruce masts! Just imagine how
                                    much
                                    > glop you will save, let alone the cost of all that interior
                                    plumbing,
                                    > cabinetry, glitz and glitter, hot tub and expensive motor.
                                    >
                                    > All you need is a bucket, a hammock and a big cooler mate! You
                                    could
                                    > be out sailing along the shores of the mighty St. Lawrence, in the
                                    > schooner Windermere by the time most the ice is out. And all you
                                    will
                                    > need is the T9.9 Yam and you wouldn't have to stop once you
                                    reached
                                    > the ocean.
                                    >
                                    > Quite this "estuary cruiser" nonsence before it is too late!
                                    >
                                    > Best of the Year To Ya!,
                                    >
                                    > Nels
                                    > From along the shores of Moose Jaw Creek, where the temperature
                                    has
                                    > risen 10 degrees to a balmy -25.



                                    You are not the first to suggest lowering the coach roof some,to at
                                    least get a proper pilot house with a porthole looking aft.However,
                                    you are the first to publicly call for abandoning the "estuary
                                    cruiser" mode and to make her into a schooner! Only one other pirate
                                    of reknown,Bruce Hector,would have been so bold(you're in good
                                    company there!) :-)
                                    As much as I would love to accomadate this sort of craziness, I must
                                    confess that I am rather smitten with Windermere,as is, and even
                                    more so with the prospect of multiple hijinks,blow high,blow
                                    low,with genial company.
                                    The cost,as you so correctly point out,would be reduced
                                    considerably,but so too would the palacial comforts afforded by
                                    Windermere. Moreover,it will be precisely these comforts which will
                                    serve as convincing inducements for prospective crew.T's one thing
                                    ta get'em on board,laddy,but a whole other animal ta keep them thar:-
                                    )

                                    As to the presence of spars; don't forget that there is that
                                    ingenious anchor davit,up forward,which I have been considering
                                    getting chromed,thus serving two functions...... then there is the
                                    roof top mast for flying all sorts of paraphenia including les sous-
                                    v├ętements,followed by the mighty flag staff aft,most likely out of
                                    mahogany .Of course,it is hoped that the interior too will see its'
                                    fair share of "wood",on occassion,in the stateroom,with velvet
                                    curtains drawn :-)
                                    But were I to build me some real masts,like for a schooner or other
                                    lovely vessel,I would get me hands on some Quebec black
                                    spruce....the next best thing to Sitka Spruce for tightness of its'
                                    annual rings although a bit heavier then Sitka.Eastern is better
                                    left to planking,me thinks.
                                    How I envy you your balmy weather of -25 as I labour away in a
                                    sweltering -9C. Enjoy it while it lasts for we will soon enough be
                                    cooking in + 5 weather :-)


                                    Sincerely,

                                    Peter Lenihan,tempted,teased and tortured with all sorts of crazy
                                    ideas but nevertheless focused on Windermere,from along the frozen
                                    banks of the St.Lawrence Seaway........
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