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Re: [bolger] Re: 30-odd boats

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  • Harry James
    Bruce I wrote it all down and then lost the paper when I got home in my typical CRS mode. I think that Stew on this list has a copy and might be able to
    Message 1 of 29 , Nov 29, 2004
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      Bruce

      I wrote it all down and then lost the paper when I got home in my
      typical CRS mode. I think that Stew on this list has a copy and might be
      able to provide it.

      HJ

      Bruce Hallman wrote:

      >>and there on the list was a TITLE I
      >>HAD NEVER SEEN before "Very Small Boats".
      >>
      >>
      >
      >New to me! Does that book have a ISBN number?
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Stew Miller
      Bruce, I didn t think ANYTHING had a ISBN in 1970. ;) I ll get some scans shared for you all, Stew
      Message 2 of 29 , Nov 29, 2004
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        Bruce,
        I didn't think ANYTHING had a ISBN in 1970. ;)

        I'll get some scans shared for you all,
        Stew

        Harry James wrote:

        > Bruce
        >
        > I wrote it all down and then lost the paper when I got home in my
        > typical CRS mode. I think that Stew on this list has a copy and might be
        > able to provide it.
        >
        > HJ
        >
        > Bruce Hallman wrote:
        >
        >
        >>>and there on the list was a TITLE I
        >>>HAD NEVER SEEN before "Very Small Boats".
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>New to me! Does that book have a ISBN number?
      • graeme19121984
        Lucky Seattle. I recently asked Brisbane City Library to obtain any/all of Mr Bolger s books. No luck despite the large readership Mr Bolger would have. They
        Message 3 of 29 , Nov 29, 2004
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          Lucky Seattle.

          I recently asked Brisbane City Library to obtain any/all of Mr
          Bolger's books. No luck despite the large readership Mr Bolger would
          have. They wrote:"Thank you for your interest in boatbuilding
          titles...All of the books that you suggested are outside of the
          publishing date for purchase (we do not purchase nonfiction books
          with a publishing date more than 5 years ago)..."

          When I decided to encourage my sons to take up sailing, and joined a
          club etc. about 8 years ago, I found a copy of 'Folding Schooner'
          while browsing the shelves of a branch library. They have since lost
          it. However not before I was able to borrow it about twice a year
          for a couple of years (always had to reserve it). I remain
          thouroughly as amazed by Mr bolger's works now as I was then.
          Couldn't be more gobsmacked. But appreciation,awe,respect,pleasure,
          all increase.graeme

          A last thought, it is a tribute to Mr
          > Bolger's literary skills that I could get so excited about reading
          a
          > book on designs. I wish that all his books were more readily
          available.
          > His clear writing and sense of humor coupled with his amazing
          artistic
          > abilities should have a wider audience.
          >
          > Congratulations to the people of Seattle on a really fine library.
          >
          > HJ



          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
          > You have it Stew.
        • Howard Stephenson
          Sad, isn t it? Brisbane, with three times the population of Seattle, is the third-largest city in an English-speaking so-called first- world country of 20
          Message 4 of 29 , Nov 29, 2004
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            Sad, isn't it? Brisbane, with three times the population of Seattle,
            is the third-largest city in an English-speaking so-called first-
            world country of 20 million people. (I was there for a few hours
            today).

            Howard

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Lucky Seattle.
            >
            > I recently asked Brisbane City Library to obtain any/all of Mr
            > Bolger's books. No luck despite the large readership Mr Bolger
            would
            > have. They wrote:"Thank you for your interest in boatbuilding
            > titles...All of the books that you suggested are outside of the
            > publishing date for purchase (we do not purchase nonfiction books
            > with a publishing date more than 5 years ago)..."
            have it Stew.
          • John van V.
            This is so stupid, some weird kinda librarian bias, what s up w/ it ?? I am acutally studying bias, which is different from xenophobia. My experience was with
            Message 5 of 29 , Nov 30, 2004
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              This is so stupid, some weird kinda librarian bias, what's up w/ it ??

              I am acutally studying bias, which is different from xenophobia.

              My experience was with the book "technics and civilization" by Lewis Mumford.

              Written in 1934, it predicted the Tech boom ~exactly~ as it happened.
              Unfortunately I read it in 2003. Had I done so in 1999 I could have saved
              myself about 50K in tech investments.

              Mumford could have not known about the internet, but his genius was
              understanding what is now called the "information society." He was a city
              planner, probably the best too. He showed in his book how James Watt, inventor
              of the steam engine, could not collect a dime.

              On Amazon, you can read it online:
              ** http://tinyurl.com/6sgx4


              --- graeme19121984 <graeme19121984@...> wrote:

              > (we do not purchase nonfiction books
              > with a publishing date more than 5 years ago)..."
              **

              =====




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            • graeme19121984
              Librarian bias? I don t know about that. Bias implies some kind of consistent direction, well founded or not. Weird? In the sense of odd? Perhaps. Stupid?
              Message 6 of 29 , Nov 30, 2004
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                Librarian bias? I don't know about that. 'Bias' implies some kind of
                consistent direction, well founded or not.
                Weird? In the sense of odd? Perhaps. Stupid? Yes, get this:

                A month or five ago I borrowed Hartley's guide to boatbuilding, a
                brand spanking new book. A 2003 (I think) unaltered re-edition of a
                book FIFTY or more years old. A dated book just re-published.This
                book advises amateurs of the joys and versatility of ASBESTOS in
                boatbuilding.

                For instance, how sensible yet easy it is to use asbestos for
                lagging exhaust systems. Just get in there with bare hands, no safe
                handling measures at all! Wrap those pipes with it wetted, and leave
                to set hard. When its hard thats it, no need to seal it! Easy! In
                the past I've seen some of this type of time-bomb lagging; hope I've
                never been too close.

                The policy (?) of the library to purchase only contemporary non-
                fiction titles is seriously flawed. ..Now,in a perfect world....
                PCB:The Collected Works..... ah...
                Graeme


                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John van V." <john_van_v@y...>
                wrote:
                > This is so stupid, some weird kinda librarian bias, what's up w/
                it ??
                > I am acutally studying bias, which is different from xenophobia.
                > My experience was with the book "technics and civilization" by
                Lewis Mumford.
                > Written in 1934, it predicted the Tech boom ~exactly~ as it
                happened.
                > Unfortunately I read it in 2003.

                --- graeme19121984 <graeme19121984@y...>
                wrote:
                > (we do not purchase nonfiction books
                > with a publishing date more than 5 years ago)..."
                >
              • graeme19121984
                OK, ok, so I just happen to have a book on loan from a certain library. Thomas Firth Jones writing an appreciation of Phil Bolger, in New Plywood Boats
                Message 7 of 29 , Nov 30, 2004
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                  OK, ok, so I just happen to have a book on loan from a certain
                  library.

                  Thomas Firth Jones writing an appreciation of Phil Bolger, in 'New
                  Plywood Boats' p189, mentions PCB's five books describing his
                  designs and "one" about sailing rigs; innumerable magazine articles
                  commencing from his early career ('Blacksnake' in '55); a THOUSAND
                  letters a year, as likely handwritten and all nearly as succinct and
                  felicitously phrased as his books and articles; and a NUMBER of
                  novels none of which has found a commercial publisher. TFJ
                  says, 'Schorpioen', the one he has read was published by the
                  boatbuilders Duff and Duff.

                  TFJ judges the trouble with PCB's novels is that they are about
                  political and economic IDEAS, not about people. TFJ writes that PCB
                  reminds him of Ezra Pound whom he also met, in that he has to work
                  hard to keep the conversation on boats or people or nature, but with
                  the qualification that PCB is not nuts. He writes that foolishly he
                  said to PCB that Captain James Cook was the greatest man who ever
                  lived whereon Mr Bolger said, Cook would have to come second to Adam
                  Smith.

                  TFJ says in passing while commenting on PCB's voluminous
                  correspondence it is hard to envision how Mr Bolger "could have
                  accomplished all that he has had he not waited to marry until
                  relatively late in life". (Recently, I think , Jim Michalak, whilst
                  writing on PCB's UNPUBLISHED seas-of-peas theory commented on his
                  relationship with PCB, and alluded to a similar sentiment, offering
                  that they both were married about the same time.)
                  regards
                  Graeme


                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
                  > Its quiz time folks.
                  >
                  > Any long time Bolger Fan can name the 6 books on design and rigs
                  and the
                  > 1 fiction. I recently stumbled across a possible 8th book Has
                  anybody
                  > else seen it?
                  >
                  > HJ
                  >
                  > Howard Stephenson wrote:
                  >
                  > >It must be satisfying to have written a book that increases in
                  value
                  > >over time. Yesterday I spent $1.00 on a second-hand copy of a 560-
                  > >page work of well-researched non-fiction written by a friend of
                  mine
                  > >a few years ago. I haven't the heart to tell him...
                  > >
                  > >It's also satisfying to the owner of a few out-of-print Bolger
                  books
                  > >including this one :-]
                  > >
                  > >Howard
                  > >
                  > >--
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                • Harry James
                  As a further brag Juneau, (population approx 30,000) has three Bolger titles in the stacks, it used to be four but somebody walked off with 30 Odd boats. Its
                  Message 8 of 29 , Nov 30, 2004
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                    As a further brag Juneau, (population approx 30,000) has three Bolger
                    titles in the stacks, it used to be four but somebody walked off with 30
                    Odd boats. Its all in where you are.

                    HJ

                    graeme19121984 wrote:

                    >
                    > The policy (?) of the library to purchase only contemporary non-
                    >fiction titles is seriously flawed. ..Now,in a perfect world....
                    >PCB:The Collected Works..... ah...
                    >Graeme
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • friendlygulltoo
                    ... Bolger ... with 30 ... world.... ... libraries share their collection in that way. As an aside, in the SF Bay area, the small library in Sausalito has a
                    Message 9 of 29 , Nov 30, 2004
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
                      > As a further brag Juneau, (population approx 30,000) has three
                      Bolger
                      > titles in the stacks, it used to be four but somebody walked off
                      with 30
                      > Odd boats. Its all in where you are.
                      >
                      > HJ
                      >
                      > graeme19121984 wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > The policy (?) of the library to purchase only contemporary non-
                      > >fiction titles is seriously flawed. ..Now,in a perfect
                      world....
                      > >PCB:The Collected Works..... ah...
                      > >Graeme
                      > >
                      > >It may be a reasonable idea to try for an interlibrary loan. Many
                      libraries share their collection in that way. As an aside, in the SF
                      Bay area, the small library in Sausalito has a great collection!
                      Everything from Bolger, Buehler, Colvin to Worchester (Junks and
                      Sampans of the Yangtze river delta!!! friendlygulltoo
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                    • Stew Miller
                      I have shared a couple of pictures of Very Small Boats (VSB) at http://themillers.us/VerySmallBoats.html : a photo of the cover and a scan of the preface.
                      Message 10 of 29 , Dec 5, 2004
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                        I have shared a couple of pictures of Very Small Boats (VSB) at
                        http://themillers.us/VerySmallBoats.html : a photo of the cover and a scan of the
                        preface. Harry is correct, VSB is a smaller, earlier version of Small Boats (SB). VSB
                        contains plans and descriptions for 11 boats (listed below), compared to SB's 31
                        designs. The VSB preface and boat descriptions are repeated in SB and expanded slightly.

                        My copy is not bound in any way; just 48 loose pages. Most pages are only printed on
                        one side, and none are numbered. It is still in the original mailing envelope
                        postmarked Gloucester, and bearing PCB's (no friends yet ;) return address.

                        Complete plans seem to be included for all except one boat, for which Mr. Bolger directs
                        the reader to another source. One interesting difference is that the plans in VSB are
                        1/2 size, and could actually be used for building. Compare that to the small plans in
                        SB which are only to illustrate the text.

                        VSB includes plans for:

                        Name Number
                        Archaeopteryx 202
                        Halloween 211
                        Victoria 218
                        Rose Pinnace 229
                        Otter 231
                        Seguin 232
                        Yarrow 233
                        Fieldmouse 234
                        Defender 236
                        Monhegan 237
                        Kotick 240

                        Gosh, those lines on Yarrow are sure sweet. If anyone would like to study some of these
                        plans, let me know and I'll send you a high-res scan.

                        Regards,
                        Stew


                        Group Master: feel free to copy these images to the Yahoo site, and shrink or OCR them.
                        I didn't want to take up space with such large files.



                        Stew Miller wrote:

                        > Bruce,
                        > I didn't think ANYTHING had a ISBN in 1970. ;)
                        >
                        > I'll get some scans shared for you all,
                        > Stew
                      • Howard Stephenson
                        Quite seriously, Stew, it s so rare and important that you should bequeath it to a museum or a reference library that will value and preserve it; Mystic
                        Message 11 of 29 , Dec 5, 2004
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                          Quite seriously, Stew, it's so rare and important that you should
                          bequeath it to a museum or a reference library that will value and
                          preserve it; Mystic Seaport, maybe.

                          To me, the preface to this and Small Boats show clearly that PCB was
                          quite happy for people to build boats from either of these
                          publications without feeling obliged to buy plans from him. It's true
                          the drawings in SB are reproduced to no particular scale, but all the
                          details can be read with a magnifying glass.

                          Howard

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Stew Miller <junkmail@t...> wrote:
                          > I have shared a couple of pictures of Very Small Boats (VSB) at
                          > http://themillers.us/VerySmallBoats.html : a photo of the cover and
                          a scan of the
                          > preface. Harry is correct, VSB is a smaller, earlier version of
                          Small Boats (SB).
                        • builtaboat
                          Gee, it would be fun if these could be posted somewhere where we could browse through them, sort of like the Svensons PopMech/MechIllus site...
                          Message 12 of 29 , Dec 5, 2004
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                            Gee, it would be fun if these could be posted somewhere where we could
                            browse through them, sort of like the Svensons PopMech/MechIllus site...
                          • builtaboat
                            What do the two sheet boats look like? Is there anything that would be fairly light once constructed? Thanks
                            Message 13 of 29 , Dec 5, 2004
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                              What do the "two sheet" boats look like? Is there anything that would
                              be fairly light once constructed?
                              Thanks
                            • Harry James
                              Stew It appears that there is more than one version of this. The copy in the Seattle Library was bound, soft cover about the size of the old Saturday Evening
                              Message 14 of 29 , Dec 8, 2004
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                                Stew

                                It appears that there is more than one version of this. The copy in the
                                Seattle Library was bound, soft cover about the size of the old Saturday
                                Evening Post. The pages were printed on both sides and there were about
                                90 pages if I remember correctly. I should have hauled out my digital
                                and taken a couple of pictures, I can't even remember which boat was on
                                the cover. It did have the date 1970 in it.

                                HJ


                                Stew Miller wrote:

                                >I have shared a couple of pictures of Very Small Boats (VSB) at
                                >http://themillers.us/VerySmallBoats.html : a photo of the cover and a scan of the
                                >preface. Harry is correct, VSB is a smaller, earlier version of Small Boats (SB). VSB
                                >contains plans and descriptions for 11 boats (listed below), compared to SB's 31
                                >designs. The VSB preface and boat descriptions are repeated in SB and expanded slightly.
                                >
                                >My copy is not bound in any way; just 48 loose pages. Most pages are only printed on
                                >one side, and none are numbered. It is still in the original mailing envelope
                                >postmarked Gloucester, and bearing PCB's (no friends yet ;) return address.
                                >
                                >Complete plans seem to be included for all except one boat, for which Mr. Bolger directs
                                >the reader to another source. One interesting difference is that the plans in VSB are
                                >1/2 size, and could actually be used for building. Compare that to the small plans in
                                >SB which are only to illustrate the text.
                                >
                                >VSB includes plans for:
                                >
                                >Name Number
                                >Archaeopteryx 202
                                >Halloween 211
                                >Victoria 218
                                >Rose Pinnace 229
                                >Otter 231
                                >Seguin 232
                                >Yarrow 233
                                >Fieldmouse 234
                                >Defender 236
                                >Monhegan 237
                                >Kotick 240
                                >
                                >Gosh, those lines on Yarrow are sure sweet. If anyone would like to study some of these
                                >plans, let me know and I'll send you a high-res scan.
                                >
                                >Regards,
                                >Stew
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Harry James
                                While searching for Black Skimmer photos I came across these pics of a Tennessee in Washington a few years ago. Now my understanding of the Tennessee is that
                                Message 15 of 29 , Dec 8, 2004
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                                  While searching for Black Skimmer photos I came across these pics of a
                                  Tennessee in Washington a few years ago. Now my understanding of the
                                  Tennessee is that it is a displacement hull and might exceed hull speed
                                  because of its length width, but not because it was on step. Sure looks
                                  like it is on a slow plane to me.

                                  http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/dicktenn.htm

                                  You Tennessee builders want to comment?


                                  HJ
                                • Howard Stephenson
                                  Sorry, I m not a Tennessee builder, although at one stage I was on the point of ordering the material to build one. But here goes: it s definitely planing.
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Dec 8, 2004
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                                    Sorry, I'm not a Tennessee builder, although at one stage I was on
                                    the point of ordering the material to build one. But here goes: it's
                                    definitely planing.

                                    This is what PCB says in the preface to "Folding
                                    Schooner": "... 'planing', of which I say briefly and dogmatically
                                    that if a boat is light and powerful enough to plane well, she can't
                                    be prevented from planing; all the designer needs to worry about is
                                    her attitude and stability."

                                    A statement like that can never be wrong, of course, because if you
                                    come up with a hull that cannot be made to plane, PCB would just say
                                    that it's either not light enough or doesn't have enough power.

                                    It seems to me that to plane, a hull needs (apart from lightness and
                                    power) a relatively flat surface to plane on. Tennessee's bottom is
                                    only slightly rockered and is flatter aft than amidships. So, when it
                                    is light enough and has enough power, it planes on the aft half or
                                    third of its hull.


                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
                                    > While searching for Black Skimmer photos I came across these pics
                                    of a
                                    > Tennessee in Washington a few years ago. Now my understanding of
                                    the
                                    > Tennessee is that it is a displacement hull and might exceed hull
                                    speed
                                    > because of its length width, but not because it was on step. Sure
                                    looks
                                    > like it is on a slow plane to me.
                                    >
                                    > http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/dicktenn.htm
                                    >
                                    > You Tennessee builders want to comment?
                                  • John B. Trussell
                                    My version of Very Small Boats was a portfolio of plans with commentary printed on one side of 10x12 sheets of paper. Looks like PCB was experimenting with
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Dec 8, 2004
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                                      My version of "Very Small Boats" was a portfolio of plans with commentary printed on one side of 10x12 sheets of paper. Looks like PCB was experimenting with a variety of versions at the time. Inevitably after 30 years and a couple of moves, many of the sheets in the portfolio have disappeared, but I still have a few. I believe that Small Boats includes all the information in the portfolio plus another 7 or 8 designs.

                                      John T
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Harry James
                                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:37 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [bolger] Very Small Boats


                                      Stew

                                      It appears that there is more than one version of this. The copy in the
                                      Seattle Library was bound, soft cover about the size of the old Saturday
                                      Evening Post. The pages were printed on both sides and there were about
                                      90 pages if I remember correctly. I should have hauled out my digital
                                      and taken a couple of pictures, I can't even remember which boat was on
                                      the cover. It did have the date 1970 in it.

                                      HJ


                                      Stew Miller wrote:

                                      >I have shared a couple of pictures of Very Small Boats (VSB) at
                                      >http://themillers.us/VerySmallBoats.html : a photo of the cover and a scan of the
                                      >preface. Harry is correct, VSB is a smaller, earlier version of Small Boats (SB). VSB
                                      >contains plans and descriptions for 11 boats (listed below), compared to SB's 31
                                      >designs. The VSB preface and boat descriptions are repeated in SB and expanded slightly.
                                      >
                                      >My copy is not bound in any way; just 48 loose pages. Most pages are only printed on
                                      >one side, and none are numbered. It is still in the original mailing envelope
                                      >postmarked Gloucester, and bearing PCB's (no friends yet ;) return address.
                                      >
                                      >Complete plans seem to be included for all except one boat, for which Mr. Bolger directs
                                      >the reader to another source. One interesting difference is that the plans in VSB are
                                      >1/2 size, and could actually be used for building. Compare that to the small plans in
                                      >SB which are only to illustrate the text.
                                      >
                                      >VSB includes plans for:
                                      >
                                      >Name Number
                                      >Archaeopteryx 202
                                      >Halloween 211
                                      >Victoria 218
                                      >Rose Pinnace 229
                                      >Otter 231
                                      >Seguin 232
                                      >Yarrow 233
                                      >Fieldmouse 234
                                      >Defender 236
                                      >Monhegan 237
                                      >Kotick 240
                                      >
                                      >Gosh, those lines on Yarrow are sure sweet. If anyone would like to study some of these
                                      >plans, let me know and I'll send you a high-res scan.
                                      >
                                      >Regards,
                                      >Stew
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      Bolger rules!!!
                                      - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                                      - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                      - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                      - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                      - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                      - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


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