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Re: [bolger] Re: Micro Upgrade

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... The best thing about the new gangway through the forward bulkhead to the forward well, is that it would accept the porta-potty, effectively giving the 16
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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      > The forward well has more space
      > with the mast/tabernacle further forward. Room for a deck chair now!

      The best thing about the new gangway through the forward bulkhead to
      the forward well, is that it would accept the porta-potty, effectively
      giving the 16' long micro a private area for the 'head'. [w/curtain across
      the opening in the newly added bulkhead at station 10]

      Can you name another cruiser, 16 feet long, with a private place
      for a toilet?

      [my mind now gearing up in free wheeling mode]

      The Coast Guard regulations prohibit 'discharge' of human waste.
      This amounts to: you cannot pee or poop in in a bucket, and then
      legally dump the bucket into water. But, you can legally pee or
      poop directly into the water, as long as no bucket involved.
      Therefore perhaps a hole in the hull bottom of the free flooding forward
      well of the Micro would not be considered a 'discharge' per the US
      regulations.

      [As I understand the law, check for yourself,
      I am not giving legal advice.]
    • dbaldnz
      Yes Nels, the rig has got more complicated than ever. All those extra battens, jaws and lines for the mizzen....a nightmare. DonB
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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        Yes Nels, the rig has got more complicated than ever. All those extra
        battens, jaws and lines for the mizzen....a nightmare.
        DonB
        > A lot of work and complication in my view, but the results would be
        > improved performance in every facet of which some people have
        > considered compromises in the original. The original is still the
        > best choice in the KISS traditions!
        >
        > These modifications on a Long Micro would result in a fully capable
        > ocean-going maxi-micro motorsailor:-)
        >
        > Cheers, Nels
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... Plus a couple halyards, and some pulleys for 35 SF of sail, to gain 8 SF in area (30%) over the previous sprit sail. Not quite a nightmare but no doubt
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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          > Yes Nels, the rig has got more complicated than ever. All those extra
          > battens, jaws and lines for the mizzen....a nightmare.
          > DonB

          Plus a couple halyards, and some pulleys for 35 SF of sail,
          to gain 8 SF in area (30%) over the previous sprit sail.
          Not quite "a nightmare" but no doubt more complex.

          Also, worth noting, the new Micro plan relocates the main
          sheet of the mainsail from the stern quarter posts, to a
          horse on the top deck (roof) of the cabin. Plus, the
          intermediate pully for the main sail sheetlet is relocated
          down, to clear the sliding mizzen batten jaws.
        • mannthree
          ... Thanks for the info. The fillets along the keel would hopefully reduce the noise at anchor, Cheers, John ... the ... chinese ... the ... at
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
            wrote:
            > Jason,

            Thanks for the info. The fillets along the keel would hopefully
            reduce the noise at anchor,

            Cheers,

            John
            > John,
            > It's called the enclosed cruiser upgrade 426B or something like
            > that.
            > It's got the house with dimensions for that bulkhead that forms
            the
            > divider between front stowage and bumks, Tabernacle, larger
            chinese
            > gaff mizzen, a drifter, rounded over bow with two fillets along
            the
            > keel at water line to give a v entry. Drop board companion way up
            at
            > the forward bulkhead a new vang, some changes to the boomkin and
            > some other minor things.
            > That's what i recall.
            > Jason
          • mannthree
            ... of the build (Excluding the keel), the simple sailing rig, and the ability to sail high and dry in an elegant manner in a compact 15 4 boat on the choppy
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
              > > The things that attracted me to the Micro were the simplicity
              of the build (Excluding the keel), the simple sailing rig, and the
              ability to sail high and dry in an elegant manner in a compact 15'
              4" boat on the choppy waters of Sydney harbour. However I'd love to
              have that enclosed cabin and a bit more sail area or better control
              of the sail (reefing and adjustment). I bought some plans for the
              Great Pelican a while back (when I wasn't feeling well!) and its
              sail is a balance lug/chinese lug?? or something which I think could
              be fitted into the areas vacated by the standard Micro sail. It
              doesn't look as complicated as the chinese gaff main on the Micro
              Modifications. I'm going to investigate this (See link below)


              http://community-2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/

              Cheers,

              John

              some other minor things.
              > > Jason
              > J. you described it well, and
              > the minor things include
              > a new end plate on the rudder,
              > and a revised scheme for the
              > routing of the forward lines.
            • mannthree
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                > > some other minor things.
                > > Jason
                > J. you described it well, and
                > the minor things include
                > a new end plate on the rudder,
                > and a revised scheme for the
                > routing of the forward lines.
              • mannthree
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                  > > some other minor things.
                  > > Jason
                  > J. you described it well, and
                  > the minor things include
                  > a new end plate on the rudder,
                  > and a revised scheme for the
                  > routing of the forward lines.
                • mannthree
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                    > > some other minor things.
                    > > Jason
                    > J. you described it well, and
                    > the minor things include
                    > a new end plate on the rudder,
                    > and a revised scheme for the
                    > routing of the forward lines.
                  • dbaldnz
                    Hi Bruce, Yes, I noticed the new horse position, right above where you would be standing to change sides and generally walk about. I don t at all like the
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                      Hi Bruce,
                      Yes, I noticed the new horse position, right above where you would be
                      standing to change sides and generally walk about. I don't at all like
                      the thought of straining ropes and thrashing blocks right at
                      scalp/forehead height, especially as the boat will be mostly sailed
                      with the sliding hatch open.
                      DonB

                      > Also, worth noting, the new Micro plan relocates the main
                      > sheet of the mainsail from the stern quarter posts, to a
                      > horse on the top deck (roof) of the cabin. Plus, the
                      > intermediate pully for the main sail sheetlet is relocated
                      > down, to clear the sliding mizzen batten jaws.
                    • Harry James
                      I had a 32 ft Aluminum Bowpicker in Norton Sound that I used for the herring fishery. It had an out house welded on the back with a straight pipe to the water.
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                        I had a 32 ft Aluminum Bowpicker in Norton Sound that I used for the
                        herring fishery. It had an out house welded on the back with a straight
                        pipe to the water.

                        HJ

                        Bruce Hallman wrote:

                        >>The forward well has more space
                        >>with the mast/tabernacle further forward. Room for a deck chair now!
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >The best thing about the new gangway through the forward bulkhead to
                        >the forward well, is that it would accept the porta-potty, effectively
                        >giving the 16' long micro a private area for the 'head'. [w/curtain across
                        >the opening in the newly added bulkhead at station 10]
                        >
                        >Can you name another cruiser, 16 feet long, with a private place
                        >for a toilet?
                        >
                        >[my mind now gearing up in free wheeling mode]
                        >
                        >The Coast Guard regulations prohibit 'discharge' of human waste.
                        >This amounts to: you cannot pee or poop in in a bucket, and then
                        >legally dump the bucket into water. But, you can legally pee or
                        >poop directly into the water, as long as no bucket involved.
                        >Therefore perhaps a hole in the hull bottom of the free flooding forward
                        >well of the Micro would not be considered a 'discharge' per the US
                        >regulations.
                        >
                        >[As I understand the law, check for yourself,
                        >I am not giving legal advice.]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Bruce Hallman
                        ... On my Navigator cabin, I lengthened the slot about a foot, and discovered that an unintended consequence was that I then needed a horse for the boom to
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                          > Yes, I noticed the new horse position, right above where you would be
                          > standing to change sides and generally walk about. I don't at all like
                          > the thought of straining ropes and thrashing blocks right at
                          > scalp/forehead height, especially as the boat will be mostly sailed
                          > with the sliding hatch open.
                          > DonB

                          On my Navigator cabin, I lengthened the slot about a foot,
                          and discovered that an unintended consequence was that
                          I then needed a 'horse' for the boom to rest upon when not
                          hoisted. My horse is in about the same position as the
                          one on the Micro II plans. Being 6 feet tall, my eyes fall below
                          the horse when I am standing in the slot, and I don't feel there is
                          a problem with vision or standing height.

                          As is painfully obvious, I haven't launched yet, but I have
                          spent some time 'dry run' sailing in my driveway, and find
                          that there is an excellent comfortable position to stand
                          or sit with your butt in the cabin gangway hatch while sailing,
                          [head well clear of the horse].

                          Also, at times, the horse is also a comfortable place
                          to rest your hands, bracing your balance, while you stand in the
                          slot.

                          I can't say I *truly* understand the mechanics of sheeting a
                          gaff sail, but I am guessing that Bolger welcomes the downward
                          pull of the new sheet location for its 'vang' effect on the boom, which
                          would be greater in the new configuration than the old.

                          Have you noticed how the new mainsheet runs forward before it
                          enters the cabin? I see that the fairlead to enter the cabin might
                          be a source of a rainwater leak.

                          Just an update on my progress: I am currently fiberglassing and
                          refinishing the perimeter of my cabin roof, hairline joints in which
                          I have diagnosed as the source of rainwater leaks into the cabin.

                          Also, I have come down with a case of 'cold feet' about my
                          jerry rigged wheel bearing job done while rebuilding my trailer.
                          So, I bit the bullet and ordered new a axle, hubs, wheels
                          and tires, yet to be installed. The last thing I want would be
                          a bearing or tire failure on the trailer. [New tires, because the $56
                          Costco tires I bought were wrong, being 'passenger car' load rating,
                          not the higher trailer load rating 'C'.] The trailer is a safety issue
                          that I must get right.
                        • Bruce Hallman
                          ... I don t recall ever actually hearing complaints of noise at anchor with the Micro. Is the noise a real or imaginary problem?
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                            > The fillets along the keel would hopefully
                            > reduce the noise at anchor,
                            > John

                            I don't recall ever actually hearing complaints of noise at
                            anchor with the Micro. Is the noise a real or imaginary
                            problem?
                          • Jason Stancil
                            ... Yeesh, I feel your pain. Doesn t look as though i ll make it till spring. I can t get the weather to cooperate and since i keep finding a spot to fair i
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                              > As is painfully obvious, I haven't launched yet,

                              Yeesh, I feel your pain. Doesn't look as though i'll make it till
                              spring. I can't get the weather to cooperate and since i keep
                              finding a spot to fair i have to wait at least another week each
                              time for it to cure before painting. First projected snow of the
                              season is this weekend. I've got the windows installed and all the
                              bits cetoled. The plan is to pop the windows out put about 4 coats
                              of primer on her bed down the windows batten down the hatches and
                              store her for the winter. I'll get all the spars and bits finished
                              up and rigged by the warmth of the woodburning stove in the cabin
                              this winter. I'm moving farther out into the woods this week and i
                              donb't have a trailer yet so my little beast will be left unattended
                              at the old building site 20 miles from my new cabin. Oh well the
                              water will start icing in 30 days anyhow.

                              Jason conceiting defeat to old man winter and praying for an early
                              thaw!
                            • mannthree
                              ... through the hull. I suspect it would drive you crazy after a while. John The fillets along the keel would hopefully
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                                > > The slap, slap, slap, of the waves and or ripples resonates
                                through the hull. I suspect it would drive you crazy after a
                                while.

                                John

                                The fillets along the keel would hopefully
                                > > reduce the noise at anchor,
                                > > John
                                >
                                > I don't recall ever actually hearing complaints of noise at
                                > anchor with the Micro. Is the noise a real or imaginary
                                > problem?
                              • dbaldnz
                                Yes Bruce, it would be heartbreaking to damage your craft for a trailer fault. I considered the horse where shown on the new plan when building, but it just
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                  Yes Bruce, it would be heartbreaking to damage your craft for a
                                  trailer fault.
                                  I considered the horse where shown on the new plan when building, but
                                  it just did not feel right. A shame to spoil that nice open feeling
                                  with the big hatch wide open. My boom has 2 resting places, a bar in
                                  front of the hatch and another connecting the aft stanchions.
                                  Sitting as you say at the after end of the opening looks a really
                                  comfortable place for relaxed sailing, with the tiller between your
                                  legs and both hands free for taking the caps off bottles!
                                  As to leaks, I have been lucky to have none, though being paranoid
                                  about leaks in my work, a lot af attention was paid to that.
                                  Progress on Oink has been zero since our Home Show here a few months
                                  ago.....I just cannot get on top of the work generated, and have even
                                  spent my weekends following up new clients. However the weather is
                                  warming up now, and time will be made,
                                  DonB
                                  >
                                  > On my Navigator cabin, I lengthened the slot about a foot,
                                  > and discovered that an unintended consequence was that
                                  > I then needed a 'horse' for the boom to rest upon when not
                                  > hoisted. My horse is in about the same position as the
                                  > one on the Micro II plans. Being 6 feet tall, my eyes fall below
                                  > the horse when I am standing in the slot, and I don't feel there is
                                  > a problem with vision or standing height.
                                  >
                                  > As is painfully obvious, I haven't launched yet, but I have
                                  > spent some time 'dry run' sailing in my driveway, and find
                                  > that there is an excellent comfortable position to stand
                                  > or sit with your butt in the cabin gangway hatch while sailing,
                                  > [head well clear of the horse].
                                  >
                                  > Also, at times, the horse is also a comfortable place
                                  > to rest your hands, bracing your balance, while you stand in the
                                  > slot.
                                  >
                                  > I can't say I *truly* understand the mechanics of sheeting a
                                  > gaff sail, but I am guessing that Bolger welcomes the downward
                                  > pull of the new sheet location for its 'vang' effect on the boom, which
                                  > would be greater in the new configuration than the old.
                                  >
                                  > Have you noticed how the new mainsheet runs forward before it
                                  > enters the cabin? I see that the fairlead to enter the cabin might
                                  > be a source of a rainwater leak.
                                  >
                                  > Just an update on my progress: I am currently fiberglassing and
                                  > refinishing the perimeter of my cabin roof, hairline joints in which
                                  > I have diagnosed as the source of rainwater leaks into the cabin.
                                  >
                                  > Also, I have come down with a case of 'cold feet' about my
                                  > jerry rigged wheel bearing job done while rebuilding my trailer.
                                  > So, I bit the bullet and ordered new a axle, hubs, wheels
                                  > and tires, yet to be installed. The last thing I want would be
                                  > a bearing or tire failure on the trailer. [New tires, because the $56
                                  > Costco tires I bought were wrong, being 'passenger car' load rating,
                                  > not the higher trailer load rating 'C'.] The trailer is a safety issue
                                  > that I must get right.
                                • Bruce Hallman
                                  ... Depends on the individual. Some people hate to hear the seagulls too . Personally, the clanking of halyards on the aluminum masts of plastic boats
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                    > > > The slap, slap, slap, of the waves and or ripples resonates
                                    > through the hull. I suspect it would drive you crazy after a while.
                                    > John

                                    Depends on the individual. Some people hate to hear the
                                    seagulls too <g>. Personally, the clanking of halyards on the
                                    aluminum masts of plastic boats gets on my nerves.

                                    I just wonder if the fillet piece was a result of complaints received,
                                    or perhaps from Susanne Altenberger having fun with her CADD
                                    program.

                                    A third potential reason, not mentioned in the MAIB article is that
                                    the fillet has hydrodynamic or structural benefits.
                                  • Bruce Hallman
                                    ... Or kill someone. ... The new plans show the short hatch and the horse is a few inches forward of the forward edge of the hatch. Shouldn t hit your head,
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                      > DonB
                                      > Yes Bruce, it would be heartbreaking to damage
                                      > your craft for a trailer fault.

                                      Or kill someone.

                                      > I considered the horse where shown on
                                      > the new plan when building, but
                                      > it just did not feel right.

                                      The new plans show the 'short hatch' and the horse
                                      is a few inches forward of the forward edge of the
                                      hatch. Shouldn't hit your head, unless your hatch
                                      is enlarged.

                                      http://hallman.org/bolger/422/horse.gif
                                    • Jason Stancil
                                      Because of my dumb dumb modification to the sail plan i think my traveler will be strung accross the top of the two stanchions....the boom extends aft of the
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                        Because of my dumb dumb modification to the sail plan i think my
                                        traveler will be strung accross the top of the two stanchions....the
                                        boom extends aft of the stern ala' old school cat boat, we'll see
                                        how that goes.

                                        Since she has a tabernacle I put the gallows for the mast where
                                        bolger shows his traveler...it's not been bedded/bolted down yet as
                                        it's brightwork, but it makes a great grab rail to swing yourself
                                        down through the companionway slot(haven't built the step yet.

                                        When i talked to susanne about the tabernacle mod she warned me of
                                        some other mods they'd been wanting to do. The letter that came with
                                        the plan said the fillets were there to stop pounding at anchor, she
                                        wrote there had been a number of complaints about the noise.

                                        Jason
                                      • dbaldnz
                                        Oh, I hadn t noticed that the hatch is now short. Strange, because they have stressed the large open hatch as being part of making the glasshouse livable (like
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                          Oh, I hadn't noticed that the hatch is now short. Strange, because
                                          they have stressed the large open hatch as being part of making the
                                          glasshouse livable (like Birdwatcher). I wouldn't like to lose the
                                          lovely open rag-top feeling of the original hatch design.
                                          DonB
                                          > The new plans show the 'short hatch' and the horse
                                          > is a few inches forward of the forward edge of the
                                          > hatch. Shouldn't hit your head, unless your hatch
                                          > is enlarged.
                                          >
                                          > http://hallman.org/bolger/422/horse.gif
                                        • dbaldnz
                                          Do you have bears near that cabin Jason? You might have more than a bent keel to contend with come spring! Are you retreating into the hills for peace and
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                            Do you have bears near that cabin Jason? You might have more than a
                                            bent keel to contend with come spring!
                                            Are you retreating into the hills for peace and quiet to knock out
                                            your thesis?
                                            DonB
                                            I'll get all the spars and bits finished
                                            > up and rigged by the warmth of the woodburning stove in the cabin
                                            > this winter. I'm moving farther out into the woods this week and i
                                            > donb't have a trailer yet so my little beast will be left unattended
                                            > at the old building site 20 miles from my new cabin. Oh well the
                                            > water will start icing in 30 days anyhow.
                                            >
                                            > Jason conceiting defeat to old man winter and praying for an early
                                            > thaw!
                                          • Bruce Hallman
                                            ... Actually, (I had forgotten), the side view of the boat shows a hatch with a shorter length. The top view shows a longer length. (Also, the top view
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 4, 2004
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                                              > Oh, I hadn't noticed that the hatch is now short. Strange, because
                                              > they have stressed the large open hatch as being part of making the
                                              > glasshouse livable (like Birdwatcher). I wouldn't like to lose the
                                              > lovely open rag-top feeling of the original hatch design.
                                              > DonB

                                              Actually, (I had forgotten), the side view of the boat shows a hatch
                                              with a shorter length. The top view shows a longer length. (Also,
                                              the top view doesn't show a horse). 'Omission' 'error', 'builders option',
                                              take your choice.

                                              A word of caution, I chose to make my hatch longer still. The difficulty
                                              of building a hatch, (and the hatch rails) straight enough to slide fairly
                                              without binding grows exponentially with length. IOW, a short hatch
                                              is vastly easier to build than a long hatch.
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