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Micro Upgrade

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  • mannthree
    Greetings, Does anyone have a list of the upgrade items included in Mr Bolger s Micro upgrade. Does it include the Navigator design items as well as rounded
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 1, 2004
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      Greetings,

      Does anyone have a list of the upgrade items included in Mr Bolger's
      Micro upgrade. Does it include the Navigator design items as well
      as "rounded bow" (I'm not sure what this is) etc etc,

      Regards,

      John Mann
    • Jason Stancil
      John, It s called the enclosed cruiser upgrade 426B or something like that. It s got the house with dimensions for that bulkhead that forms the divider between
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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        John,
        It's called the enclosed cruiser upgrade 426B or something like
        that.
        It's got the house with dimensions for that bulkhead that forms the
        divider between front stowage and bumks, Tabernacle, larger chinese
        gaff mizzen, a drifter, rounded over bow with two fillets along the
        keel at water line to give a v entry. Drop board companion way up at
        the forward bulkhead a new vang, some changes to the boomkin and
        some other minor things.
        That's what i recall.
        Jason
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... J. you described it well, and the minor things include a new end plate on the rudder, and a revised scheme for the routing of the forward lines.
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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          > some other minor things.
          > Jason
          J. you described it well, and
          the minor things include
          a new end plate on the rudder,
          and a revised scheme for the
          routing of the forward lines.
        • Nels
          ... Bolger s ... I posted a few scanned highlights here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/MICRO%20NAVIGATOR/ The actual blueprints are scaled and
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@i...> wrote:
            >
            > Greetings,
            >
            > Does anyone have a list of the upgrade items included in Mr
            Bolger's
            > Micro upgrade. Does it include the Navigator design items as well
            > as "rounded bow" (I'm not sure what this is) etc etc,
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > John Mann

            I posted a few scanned highlights here:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/MICRO%20NAVIGATOR/

            The actual blueprints are scaled and have more detail but it is
            pretty much as Jason said. The end plate for the rudder is also an
            addition not on the original plans. The forward well has more space
            with the mast/tabernacle further forward. Room for a deck chair now!
            Narrow decking added to the well along both gunwales for the blocks
            for all the strings. Also a fully battened mizzen with more area.

            There is no building guide like PCB usually has nowadays. No written
            explanations other than that on the plans themselves.

            A lot of work and complication in my view, but the results would be
            improved performance in every facet of which some people have
            considered compromises in the original. The original is still the
            best choice in the KISS traditions!

            These modifications on a Long Micro would result in a fully capable
            ocean-going maxi-micro motorsailor:-)

            Cheers, Nels
          • Bruce Hallman
            ... The best thing about the new gangway through the forward bulkhead to the forward well, is that it would accept the porta-potty, effectively giving the 16
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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              > The forward well has more space
              > with the mast/tabernacle further forward. Room for a deck chair now!

              The best thing about the new gangway through the forward bulkhead to
              the forward well, is that it would accept the porta-potty, effectively
              giving the 16' long micro a private area for the 'head'. [w/curtain across
              the opening in the newly added bulkhead at station 10]

              Can you name another cruiser, 16 feet long, with a private place
              for a toilet?

              [my mind now gearing up in free wheeling mode]

              The Coast Guard regulations prohibit 'discharge' of human waste.
              This amounts to: you cannot pee or poop in in a bucket, and then
              legally dump the bucket into water. But, you can legally pee or
              poop directly into the water, as long as no bucket involved.
              Therefore perhaps a hole in the hull bottom of the free flooding forward
              well of the Micro would not be considered a 'discharge' per the US
              regulations.

              [As I understand the law, check for yourself,
              I am not giving legal advice.]
            • dbaldnz
              Yes Nels, the rig has got more complicated than ever. All those extra battens, jaws and lines for the mizzen....a nightmare. DonB
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                Yes Nels, the rig has got more complicated than ever. All those extra
                battens, jaws and lines for the mizzen....a nightmare.
                DonB
                > A lot of work and complication in my view, but the results would be
                > improved performance in every facet of which some people have
                > considered compromises in the original. The original is still the
                > best choice in the KISS traditions!
                >
                > These modifications on a Long Micro would result in a fully capable
                > ocean-going maxi-micro motorsailor:-)
                >
                > Cheers, Nels
              • Bruce Hallman
                ... Plus a couple halyards, and some pulleys for 35 SF of sail, to gain 8 SF in area (30%) over the previous sprit sail. Not quite a nightmare but no doubt
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                  > Yes Nels, the rig has got more complicated than ever. All those extra
                  > battens, jaws and lines for the mizzen....a nightmare.
                  > DonB

                  Plus a couple halyards, and some pulleys for 35 SF of sail,
                  to gain 8 SF in area (30%) over the previous sprit sail.
                  Not quite "a nightmare" but no doubt more complex.

                  Also, worth noting, the new Micro plan relocates the main
                  sheet of the mainsail from the stern quarter posts, to a
                  horse on the top deck (roof) of the cabin. Plus, the
                  intermediate pully for the main sail sheetlet is relocated
                  down, to clear the sliding mizzen batten jaws.
                • mannthree
                  ... Thanks for the info. The fillets along the keel would hopefully reduce the noise at anchor, Cheers, John ... the ... chinese ... the ... at
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Stancil" <jasonstancil@h...>
                    wrote:
                    > Jason,

                    Thanks for the info. The fillets along the keel would hopefully
                    reduce the noise at anchor,

                    Cheers,

                    John
                    > John,
                    > It's called the enclosed cruiser upgrade 426B or something like
                    > that.
                    > It's got the house with dimensions for that bulkhead that forms
                    the
                    > divider between front stowage and bumks, Tabernacle, larger
                    chinese
                    > gaff mizzen, a drifter, rounded over bow with two fillets along
                    the
                    > keel at water line to give a v entry. Drop board companion way up
                    at
                    > the forward bulkhead a new vang, some changes to the boomkin and
                    > some other minor things.
                    > That's what i recall.
                    > Jason
                  • mannthree
                    ... of the build (Excluding the keel), the simple sailing rig, and the ability to sail high and dry in an elegant manner in a compact 15 4 boat on the choppy
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                      > > The things that attracted me to the Micro were the simplicity
                      of the build (Excluding the keel), the simple sailing rig, and the
                      ability to sail high and dry in an elegant manner in a compact 15'
                      4" boat on the choppy waters of Sydney harbour. However I'd love to
                      have that enclosed cabin and a bit more sail area or better control
                      of the sail (reefing and adjustment). I bought some plans for the
                      Great Pelican a while back (when I wasn't feeling well!) and its
                      sail is a balance lug/chinese lug?? or something which I think could
                      be fitted into the areas vacated by the standard Micro sail. It
                      doesn't look as complicated as the chinese gaff main on the Micro
                      Modifications. I'm going to investigate this (See link below)


                      http://community-2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/

                      Cheers,

                      John

                      some other minor things.
                      > > Jason
                      > J. you described it well, and
                      > the minor things include
                      > a new end plate on the rudder,
                      > and a revised scheme for the
                      > routing of the forward lines.
                    • mannthree
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                        > > some other minor things.
                        > > Jason
                        > J. you described it well, and
                        > the minor things include
                        > a new end plate on the rudder,
                        > and a revised scheme for the
                        > routing of the forward lines.
                      • mannthree
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                          > > some other minor things.
                          > > Jason
                          > J. you described it well, and
                          > the minor things include
                          > a new end plate on the rudder,
                          > and a revised scheme for the
                          > routing of the forward lines.
                        • mannthree
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                            > > some other minor things.
                            > > Jason
                            > J. you described it well, and
                            > the minor things include
                            > a new end plate on the rudder,
                            > and a revised scheme for the
                            > routing of the forward lines.
                          • dbaldnz
                            Hi Bruce, Yes, I noticed the new horse position, right above where you would be standing to change sides and generally walk about. I don t at all like the
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                              Hi Bruce,
                              Yes, I noticed the new horse position, right above where you would be
                              standing to change sides and generally walk about. I don't at all like
                              the thought of straining ropes and thrashing blocks right at
                              scalp/forehead height, especially as the boat will be mostly sailed
                              with the sliding hatch open.
                              DonB

                              > Also, worth noting, the new Micro plan relocates the main
                              > sheet of the mainsail from the stern quarter posts, to a
                              > horse on the top deck (roof) of the cabin. Plus, the
                              > intermediate pully for the main sail sheetlet is relocated
                              > down, to clear the sliding mizzen batten jaws.
                            • Harry James
                              I had a 32 ft Aluminum Bowpicker in Norton Sound that I used for the herring fishery. It had an out house welded on the back with a straight pipe to the water.
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 2, 2004
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                                I had a 32 ft Aluminum Bowpicker in Norton Sound that I used for the
                                herring fishery. It had an out house welded on the back with a straight
                                pipe to the water.

                                HJ

                                Bruce Hallman wrote:

                                >>The forward well has more space
                                >>with the mast/tabernacle further forward. Room for a deck chair now!
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >The best thing about the new gangway through the forward bulkhead to
                                >the forward well, is that it would accept the porta-potty, effectively
                                >giving the 16' long micro a private area for the 'head'. [w/curtain across
                                >the opening in the newly added bulkhead at station 10]
                                >
                                >Can you name another cruiser, 16 feet long, with a private place
                                >for a toilet?
                                >
                                >[my mind now gearing up in free wheeling mode]
                                >
                                >The Coast Guard regulations prohibit 'discharge' of human waste.
                                >This amounts to: you cannot pee or poop in in a bucket, and then
                                >legally dump the bucket into water. But, you can legally pee or
                                >poop directly into the water, as long as no bucket involved.
                                >Therefore perhaps a hole in the hull bottom of the free flooding forward
                                >well of the Micro would not be considered a 'discharge' per the US
                                >regulations.
                                >
                                >[As I understand the law, check for yourself,
                                >I am not giving legal advice.]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Bruce Hallman
                                ... On my Navigator cabin, I lengthened the slot about a foot, and discovered that an unintended consequence was that I then needed a horse for the boom to
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                  > Yes, I noticed the new horse position, right above where you would be
                                  > standing to change sides and generally walk about. I don't at all like
                                  > the thought of straining ropes and thrashing blocks right at
                                  > scalp/forehead height, especially as the boat will be mostly sailed
                                  > with the sliding hatch open.
                                  > DonB

                                  On my Navigator cabin, I lengthened the slot about a foot,
                                  and discovered that an unintended consequence was that
                                  I then needed a 'horse' for the boom to rest upon when not
                                  hoisted. My horse is in about the same position as the
                                  one on the Micro II plans. Being 6 feet tall, my eyes fall below
                                  the horse when I am standing in the slot, and I don't feel there is
                                  a problem with vision or standing height.

                                  As is painfully obvious, I haven't launched yet, but I have
                                  spent some time 'dry run' sailing in my driveway, and find
                                  that there is an excellent comfortable position to stand
                                  or sit with your butt in the cabin gangway hatch while sailing,
                                  [head well clear of the horse].

                                  Also, at times, the horse is also a comfortable place
                                  to rest your hands, bracing your balance, while you stand in the
                                  slot.

                                  I can't say I *truly* understand the mechanics of sheeting a
                                  gaff sail, but I am guessing that Bolger welcomes the downward
                                  pull of the new sheet location for its 'vang' effect on the boom, which
                                  would be greater in the new configuration than the old.

                                  Have you noticed how the new mainsheet runs forward before it
                                  enters the cabin? I see that the fairlead to enter the cabin might
                                  be a source of a rainwater leak.

                                  Just an update on my progress: I am currently fiberglassing and
                                  refinishing the perimeter of my cabin roof, hairline joints in which
                                  I have diagnosed as the source of rainwater leaks into the cabin.

                                  Also, I have come down with a case of 'cold feet' about my
                                  jerry rigged wheel bearing job done while rebuilding my trailer.
                                  So, I bit the bullet and ordered new a axle, hubs, wheels
                                  and tires, yet to be installed. The last thing I want would be
                                  a bearing or tire failure on the trailer. [New tires, because the $56
                                  Costco tires I bought were wrong, being 'passenger car' load rating,
                                  not the higher trailer load rating 'C'.] The trailer is a safety issue
                                  that I must get right.
                                • Bruce Hallman
                                  ... I don t recall ever actually hearing complaints of noise at anchor with the Micro. Is the noise a real or imaginary problem?
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                    > The fillets along the keel would hopefully
                                    > reduce the noise at anchor,
                                    > John

                                    I don't recall ever actually hearing complaints of noise at
                                    anchor with the Micro. Is the noise a real or imaginary
                                    problem?
                                  • Jason Stancil
                                    ... Yeesh, I feel your pain. Doesn t look as though i ll make it till spring. I can t get the weather to cooperate and since i keep finding a spot to fair i
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                      > As is painfully obvious, I haven't launched yet,

                                      Yeesh, I feel your pain. Doesn't look as though i'll make it till
                                      spring. I can't get the weather to cooperate and since i keep
                                      finding a spot to fair i have to wait at least another week each
                                      time for it to cure before painting. First projected snow of the
                                      season is this weekend. I've got the windows installed and all the
                                      bits cetoled. The plan is to pop the windows out put about 4 coats
                                      of primer on her bed down the windows batten down the hatches and
                                      store her for the winter. I'll get all the spars and bits finished
                                      up and rigged by the warmth of the woodburning stove in the cabin
                                      this winter. I'm moving farther out into the woods this week and i
                                      donb't have a trailer yet so my little beast will be left unattended
                                      at the old building site 20 miles from my new cabin. Oh well the
                                      water will start icing in 30 days anyhow.

                                      Jason conceiting defeat to old man winter and praying for an early
                                      thaw!
                                    • mannthree
                                      ... through the hull. I suspect it would drive you crazy after a while. John The fillets along the keel would hopefully
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                                        > > The slap, slap, slap, of the waves and or ripples resonates
                                        through the hull. I suspect it would drive you crazy after a
                                        while.

                                        John

                                        The fillets along the keel would hopefully
                                        > > reduce the noise at anchor,
                                        > > John
                                        >
                                        > I don't recall ever actually hearing complaints of noise at
                                        > anchor with the Micro. Is the noise a real or imaginary
                                        > problem?
                                      • dbaldnz
                                        Yes Bruce, it would be heartbreaking to damage your craft for a trailer fault. I considered the horse where shown on the new plan when building, but it just
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                          Yes Bruce, it would be heartbreaking to damage your craft for a
                                          trailer fault.
                                          I considered the horse where shown on the new plan when building, but
                                          it just did not feel right. A shame to spoil that nice open feeling
                                          with the big hatch wide open. My boom has 2 resting places, a bar in
                                          front of the hatch and another connecting the aft stanchions.
                                          Sitting as you say at the after end of the opening looks a really
                                          comfortable place for relaxed sailing, with the tiller between your
                                          legs and both hands free for taking the caps off bottles!
                                          As to leaks, I have been lucky to have none, though being paranoid
                                          about leaks in my work, a lot af attention was paid to that.
                                          Progress on Oink has been zero since our Home Show here a few months
                                          ago.....I just cannot get on top of the work generated, and have even
                                          spent my weekends following up new clients. However the weather is
                                          warming up now, and time will be made,
                                          DonB
                                          >
                                          > On my Navigator cabin, I lengthened the slot about a foot,
                                          > and discovered that an unintended consequence was that
                                          > I then needed a 'horse' for the boom to rest upon when not
                                          > hoisted. My horse is in about the same position as the
                                          > one on the Micro II plans. Being 6 feet tall, my eyes fall below
                                          > the horse when I am standing in the slot, and I don't feel there is
                                          > a problem with vision or standing height.
                                          >
                                          > As is painfully obvious, I haven't launched yet, but I have
                                          > spent some time 'dry run' sailing in my driveway, and find
                                          > that there is an excellent comfortable position to stand
                                          > or sit with your butt in the cabin gangway hatch while sailing,
                                          > [head well clear of the horse].
                                          >
                                          > Also, at times, the horse is also a comfortable place
                                          > to rest your hands, bracing your balance, while you stand in the
                                          > slot.
                                          >
                                          > I can't say I *truly* understand the mechanics of sheeting a
                                          > gaff sail, but I am guessing that Bolger welcomes the downward
                                          > pull of the new sheet location for its 'vang' effect on the boom, which
                                          > would be greater in the new configuration than the old.
                                          >
                                          > Have you noticed how the new mainsheet runs forward before it
                                          > enters the cabin? I see that the fairlead to enter the cabin might
                                          > be a source of a rainwater leak.
                                          >
                                          > Just an update on my progress: I am currently fiberglassing and
                                          > refinishing the perimeter of my cabin roof, hairline joints in which
                                          > I have diagnosed as the source of rainwater leaks into the cabin.
                                          >
                                          > Also, I have come down with a case of 'cold feet' about my
                                          > jerry rigged wheel bearing job done while rebuilding my trailer.
                                          > So, I bit the bullet and ordered new a axle, hubs, wheels
                                          > and tires, yet to be installed. The last thing I want would be
                                          > a bearing or tire failure on the trailer. [New tires, because the $56
                                          > Costco tires I bought were wrong, being 'passenger car' load rating,
                                          > not the higher trailer load rating 'C'.] The trailer is a safety issue
                                          > that I must get right.
                                        • Bruce Hallman
                                          ... Depends on the individual. Some people hate to hear the seagulls too . Personally, the clanking of halyards on the aluminum masts of plastic boats
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                            > > > The slap, slap, slap, of the waves and or ripples resonates
                                            > through the hull. I suspect it would drive you crazy after a while.
                                            > John

                                            Depends on the individual. Some people hate to hear the
                                            seagulls too <g>. Personally, the clanking of halyards on the
                                            aluminum masts of plastic boats gets on my nerves.

                                            I just wonder if the fillet piece was a result of complaints received,
                                            or perhaps from Susanne Altenberger having fun with her CADD
                                            program.

                                            A third potential reason, not mentioned in the MAIB article is that
                                            the fillet has hydrodynamic or structural benefits.
                                          • Bruce Hallman
                                            ... Or kill someone. ... The new plans show the short hatch and the horse is a few inches forward of the forward edge of the hatch. Shouldn t hit your head,
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                              > DonB
                                              > Yes Bruce, it would be heartbreaking to damage
                                              > your craft for a trailer fault.

                                              Or kill someone.

                                              > I considered the horse where shown on
                                              > the new plan when building, but
                                              > it just did not feel right.

                                              The new plans show the 'short hatch' and the horse
                                              is a few inches forward of the forward edge of the
                                              hatch. Shouldn't hit your head, unless your hatch
                                              is enlarged.

                                              http://hallman.org/bolger/422/horse.gif
                                            • Jason Stancil
                                              Because of my dumb dumb modification to the sail plan i think my traveler will be strung accross the top of the two stanchions....the boom extends aft of the
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                                Because of my dumb dumb modification to the sail plan i think my
                                                traveler will be strung accross the top of the two stanchions....the
                                                boom extends aft of the stern ala' old school cat boat, we'll see
                                                how that goes.

                                                Since she has a tabernacle I put the gallows for the mast where
                                                bolger shows his traveler...it's not been bedded/bolted down yet as
                                                it's brightwork, but it makes a great grab rail to swing yourself
                                                down through the companionway slot(haven't built the step yet.

                                                When i talked to susanne about the tabernacle mod she warned me of
                                                some other mods they'd been wanting to do. The letter that came with
                                                the plan said the fillets were there to stop pounding at anchor, she
                                                wrote there had been a number of complaints about the noise.

                                                Jason
                                              • dbaldnz
                                                Oh, I hadn t noticed that the hatch is now short. Strange, because they have stressed the large open hatch as being part of making the glasshouse livable (like
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                                  Oh, I hadn't noticed that the hatch is now short. Strange, because
                                                  they have stressed the large open hatch as being part of making the
                                                  glasshouse livable (like Birdwatcher). I wouldn't like to lose the
                                                  lovely open rag-top feeling of the original hatch design.
                                                  DonB
                                                  > The new plans show the 'short hatch' and the horse
                                                  > is a few inches forward of the forward edge of the
                                                  > hatch. Shouldn't hit your head, unless your hatch
                                                  > is enlarged.
                                                  >
                                                  > http://hallman.org/bolger/422/horse.gif
                                                • dbaldnz
                                                  Do you have bears near that cabin Jason? You might have more than a bent keel to contend with come spring! Are you retreating into the hills for peace and
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Nov 3, 2004
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                                                    Do you have bears near that cabin Jason? You might have more than a
                                                    bent keel to contend with come spring!
                                                    Are you retreating into the hills for peace and quiet to knock out
                                                    your thesis?
                                                    DonB
                                                    I'll get all the spars and bits finished
                                                    > up and rigged by the warmth of the woodburning stove in the cabin
                                                    > this winter. I'm moving farther out into the woods this week and i
                                                    > donb't have a trailer yet so my little beast will be left unattended
                                                    > at the old building site 20 miles from my new cabin. Oh well the
                                                    > water will start icing in 30 days anyhow.
                                                    >
                                                    > Jason conceiting defeat to old man winter and praying for an early
                                                    > thaw!
                                                  • Bruce Hallman
                                                    ... Actually, (I had forgotten), the side view of the boat shows a hatch with a shorter length. The top view shows a longer length. (Also, the top view
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Nov 4, 2004
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                                                      > Oh, I hadn't noticed that the hatch is now short. Strange, because
                                                      > they have stressed the large open hatch as being part of making the
                                                      > glasshouse livable (like Birdwatcher). I wouldn't like to lose the
                                                      > lovely open rag-top feeling of the original hatch design.
                                                      > DonB

                                                      Actually, (I had forgotten), the side view of the boat shows a hatch
                                                      with a shorter length. The top view shows a longer length. (Also,
                                                      the top view doesn't show a horse). 'Omission' 'error', 'builders option',
                                                      take your choice.

                                                      A word of caution, I chose to make my hatch longer still. The difficulty
                                                      of building a hatch, (and the hatch rails) straight enough to slide fairly
                                                      without binding grows exponentially with length. IOW, a short hatch
                                                      is vastly easier to build than a long hatch.
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