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Re: [bolger] Re: Birdwatcher Info

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  • Rick Bedard
    Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they can pinch and when opened are in the way... I built and
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
      Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to
      seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they
      can pinch and when opened are in the way...

      I built and sail a Michalak "Birdwatcher" type with a
      24" x 8' slot and have a homemade cover made out of
      white plactic tarp that has held up well for two
      years. It's easy to fit or remove and even works under
      sail in moderate rain if you stuff an old towel around
      the mast where the cover has to be bunched up when the
      mast is up. A more talented person could cut and fit
      the tarp around the mast with a flap to cover the hole
      when the mast is down...

      Out of 1/2" pvc pipe, T's with the tops cut off, and
      45 degree elbows I made four bows that pinch fit the
      slot span and hold the tarp a few inches above the
      slot rails. Light line runs from the tarp edges out to
      the outer edge of the cabintop and back under the tarp
      and inside the rails (so they can be pulled snug and
      secured while inside the cabin). Has never leaked at
      anchor or in my backyard, yet air move in and out in
      the gap between the cabintop and tarp.

      Someone else suggested a pole or rod running fore and
      aft on the outside of one slot rail with canvas
      attached by one edge. Roll it up or unroll it like a
      windowshade and come up with some method to secure to
      the other slot rail. Would still need bows to keep it
      from sagging.

      Rick.


      > Paul
      >
      > > The long canvas of BW or the hatches of BW II do
      > not seem
      > convenient, and I'm trying to sketch alternatives
      > that could be used
      > either under way, or at anchor
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Paul
      Thanks for the link. He says: I m going to draw a narrower slot in future designs and go back to showing the plywood slot covers. Agreed. I have a Dovekie
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 2, 2004
        Thanks for the link. He says:

        "I'm going to draw a narrower slot in future designs and go back to
        showing the plywood slot covers."

        Agreed. I have a Dovekie and am still wanting to get around to making
        hard hatches. I am considering a BW1 and would like to add some kind
        of flip over hatches as well. In rough weather, or winter storage
        they would be much preferred over canvas. I'm also wondering what
        would happen if it did indeed get knocked completely over. Doesn't
        look pretty turned upside down.

        Paul

        > There is more in Michalak's latest newsletter, at:
        >
        > http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/#Contents
        >
        > Howard
      • Roger Derby
        That sounds like a good solution. Any chance of some pictures? Roger (It s early in the morning and I m having trouble picturing T s with the tops cut off. )
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 2, 2004
          That sounds like a good solution. Any chance of some pictures?

          Roger (It's early in the morning and I'm having trouble picturing "T's with
          the tops cut off.")
          derbyrm@...
          http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Rick Bedard" <sctree@...>

          > Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to
          > seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they
          > can pinch and when opened are in the way...
          >
          > I built and sail a Michalak "Birdwatcher" type with a
          > 24" x 8' slot and have a homemade cover made out of
          > white plactic tarp that has held up well for two
          > years. It's easy to fit or remove and even works under
          > sail in moderate rain if you stuff an old towel around
          > the mast where the cover has to be bunched up when the
          > mast is up. A more talented person could cut and fit
          > the tarp around the mast with a flap to cover the hole
          > when the mast is down...
          >
          > Out of 1/2" pvc pipe, T's with the tops cut off, and
          > 45 degree elbows I made four bows that pinch fit the
          > slot span and hold the tarp a few inches above the
          > slot rails. Light line runs from the tarp edges out to
          > the outer edge of the cabintop and back under the tarp
          > and inside the rails (so they can be pulled snug and
          > secured while inside the cabin). Has never leaked at
          > anchor or in my backyard, yet air move in and out in
          > the gap between the cabintop and tarp.
          >
          > Someone else suggested a pole or rod running fore and
          > aft on the outside of one slot rail with canvas
          > attached by one edge. Roll it up or unroll it like a
          > windowshade and come up with some method to secure to
          > the other slot rail. Would still need bows to keep it
          > from sagging.
          >
          > Rick.
        • Bob Larkin
          Thanks to Paul, Howard and Rick for the helpful comments on covering the Birdwatcher slot. I had not seen the Michalak articles, and these have now also been
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
            Thanks to Paul, Howard and Rick for the helpful comments on covering the
            Birdwatcher slot. I had not seen the Michalak articles, and these have now
            also been contemplated!

            I am inclined to consider this slot-cover question experimental and wait
            until I have a boat to work with. When anchored, the problem is simple,
            and a boom tent, covering at least the center compartment would provide
            standing height and dryness. But, under way it gets interesting. I'll
            start by having the ability to cover the forward compartment with a hard
            hatch. Maybe the aft area, also. Then get out the scrap plastic tarps
            and experiment. Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
            poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
            approaching. Hmmm....

            Thanks again,
            Bob
          • Rick Bedard
            You re missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so excellent and all
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
              You're missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so excellent and all around that there is no need to poke your head out.

              Rick

              Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
              Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
              poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
              approaching. Hmmm....

              Thanks again,
              Bob





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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bob Larkin
              Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding deadhead logs
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
                Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the
                original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding
                deadhead logs (missed a few, by feet, in the past), crab floats, kelp, gill
                nets and the like. My habit is to watch a lot for this stuff! If I can't
                do it easily, this becomes a concern.

                I bet the right arrangement of covers and hatches will allow
                this?? Without letting too much water inside.

                Bob

                At 12:50 PM 11/4/2004, you wrote:

                > From: Rick Bedard <sctree@...>
                >Subject: Re: Re: Birdwatcher Info
                >
                >You're missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my
                >Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so
                >excellent and all around that there is no need to poke your head out.
                >
                >Rick
                >
                >Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                > Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
                >poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
                >approaching. Hmmm....
                >
                >Thanks again,
                >Bob
              • Rick Bedard
                Bob, Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You re welcome to try mine out if you re within reach of central coast California.. The view is really
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
                  Bob,

                  Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You're welcome to try mine out if you're within reach of central coast California.. The view is really excellent. Not sure how much you would gain sticking your head out. Sorta like poking your head out of your car window in a rainstorm, what would you be gaining in visibility? OK, no windshield wipers on a boat like this... Hmmm? Well, Idunno....

                  Sounds like you venture out in weather that I would stay at anchor... The "rain" that I've sailed my JB Jr in most of you folks would laugh at.... you probably would use words like "drizzle" or "mist" or, or, "You mean those couple of raindrops?" ... I have sheltered inside, under my tarp slotcover, nice and dry, during a couple "several hour long rainy periods, and once, at anchor, during an all night downpour...

                  Back to your problem. If you must get your head out in a Michalak JB Jr on a rainy day, it's easy enough to take out the aft companionway dropboard (not really a board, it's a simple clear acrylic sheet) and sit very comfortably and securely, (in raingear), on the aft deck with your legs and feet inside the cabin. The tarp slotcover will still cover all the top, so the biggest leak would be what runs down your raingear. I guess a couple towels would be good for a while... A little puddle goes a long way in creating havoc in a flat bottomed boat....

                  Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher

                  Oh, and the logs and floats and stuff... Very light weight, flat bottomed, rockered, very shoal draft, kick-up leeboard and rudder, armored bottom (xynole-graphite)... I'd just run over that stuff... Or maybe stay at anchor.....

                  Rick

                  Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                  Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the
                  original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding
                  deadhead logs (missed a few, by feet, in the past), crab floats, kelp, gill
                  nets and the like. My habit is to watch a lot for this stuff! If I can't
                  do it easily, this becomes a concern.

                  I bet the right arrangement of covers and hatches will allow
                  this?? Without letting too much water inside.

                  Bob



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Bruce Hallman
                  ... bottomed boat.... ... The new Birdwatcher design has a raised floor, with a gutter along the edges to catch runoff, spilt beer, etc..
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 5, 2004
                    >... A little puddle goes a long way in creating havoc in a flat
                    bottomed boat....
                    >
                    > Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher
                    > Rick

                    The new Birdwatcher design has a raised floor, with a 'gutter' along the
                    edges to catch runoff, spilt beer, etc..
                  • Bob Larkin
                    Rick, I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to experience
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 7, 2004
                      Rick,

                      I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get
                      back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to
                      experience the Jewbox Jr. I have not been on (or seen) any of the BW types,
                      and it would be a good thing to do. Realisically, however, it is a bit more
                      of a trip than could happen soon. I may call on you, if an opportunity to
                      get down your way should arise.

                      Also, I didn't mean to sound like I only sail in the rain!! We even attempt
                      to avoid it. Never the less, it has happened quite a bit. We really like
                      to go to Puget Sound/San Juans or to the lower Columbia R. For various
                      reasons, including crowd reduction, this most often happens in September or
                      October. Rain and wind seem to be part of this, sometimes. The wind part
                      can be great!

                      Getting back to the boat, right after I got the BW-2 plans, I built a 16:1
                      model. It is open on one side, so I can peer forward from the aft
                      compartment. I don't think this view is nearly as good as that of as JB
                      Jr. BW-2 (and BW) has you looking through 10 feet of boat, a frame or two,
                      and then the Lexan is at an angle on the sides. The good view is through
                      the slot, at least if the jib is not in the way. I think the JB avoids
                      that obstruction, as does the very original BW. It beats not having the
                      windows, but it there is stuff in the way.

                      I found all the comments on hatches, including Bjorn Harbo's for the WDJ to
                      be very useful. I am going to experiment with hard covers for the forward
                      compartment and then decide what to do. I think the decision has been made
                      to proceed with BW-2! I can't start quite yet, as I have about a month's
                      more work on a spinning wheel project, plus a couple of other little
                      ones. The real decision is ordering some wood!

                      This all replaces a Catalina 22 , making the trailering and setup a lot
                      easier, allowing thinner water, while still allowing basic "camping." It
                      also lets me build another boat :-)

                      Thanks again to all for the comments.

                      Bob

                      At 12:43 PM 11/5/2004, Rick Bedard wrote:

                      >Bob,
                      >
                      >Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You're welcome to try
                      >mine out if you're within reach of central coast California.. The view is
                      >really excellent. Not sure how much you would gain sticking your head out.
                      >Sorta like poking your head out of your car window in a rainstorm, what
                      >would you be gaining in visibility? OK, no windshield wipers on a boat
                      >like this.. Hmmm? Well, Idunno....
                      >
                      >Sounds like you venture out in weather that I would stay at anchor... The
                      >"rain" that I've sailed my JB Jr in most of you folks would laugh at....
                      >you probably would use words like "drizzle" or "mist" or, or, "You mean
                      >those couple of raindrops?" ... I have sheltered inside, under my tarp
                      >slotcover, nice and dry, during a couple "several hour long rainy periods,
                      >and once, at anchor, during an all night downpour...
                      >
                      >Back to your problem. If you must get your head out in a Michalak JB Jr on
                      >a rainy day, it's easy enough to take out the aft companionway dropboard
                      >(not really a board, it's a simple clear acrylic sheet) and sit very
                      >comfortably and securely, (in raingear), on the aft deck with your legs
                      >and feet inside the cabin. The tarp slotcover will still cover all the
                      >top, so the biggest leak would be what runs down your raingear. I guess a
                      >couple towels would be good for a while... A little puddle goes a long way
                      >in creating havoc in a flat bottomed boat....
                      >
                      > Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher
                      >
                      >Oh, and the logs and floats and stuff... Very light weight, flat bottomed,
                      >rockered, very shoal draft, kick-up leeboard and rudder, armored bottom
                      >(xynole-graphite)... I'd just run over that stuff... Or maybe stay at
                      >anchor....
                      >
                      >Rick
                    • Rick Bedard
                      I d bet the view will be better than you think.. The analogy with your model would be looking out through the windows of a plastic model car compared to
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 7, 2004
                        I'd bet the view will be better than you think.. The analogy with your model would be looking out through the windows of a plastic model car compared to sitting in a real life car of the same make... It's different in real life scale...

                        Hard hatches... What Bolger does with Jochems schooner looks sorta like a bifold door. The perimeter overhangs the slot framing and the mid doors gap is waterproofed by a foam strip that gets pinched when the hatch is closed. The Jochem's slot is divided into several, (I think 3) sections with decking between. If you did that on Birdwatcher you'd lose the ability to stroll standing-up from one end of the cabin to the other...Plus you'll need to have the cabintop space that the door folds over on clear.

                        Happy boatbuilding...
                        Rick


                        Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                        Rick,

                        I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get
                        back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to
                        experience the Jewbox Jr. I have not been on (or seen) any of the BW types,
                        and it would be a good thing to do. Realisically, however, it is a bit more
                        of a trip than could happen soon. I may call on you, if an opportunity to
                        get down your way should arise.

                        Also, I didn't mean to sound like I only sail in the rain!! We even attempt
                        to avoid it. Never the less, it has happened quite a bit. We really like
                        to go to Puget Sound/San Juans or to the lower Columbia R. For various
                        reasons, including crowd reduction, this most often happens in September or
                        October. Rain and wind seem to be part of this, sometimes. The wind part
                        can be great!

                        Getting back to the boat, right after I got the BW-2 plans, I built a 16:1
                        model. It is open on one side, so I can peer forward from the aft
                        compartment. I don't think this view is nearly as good as that of as JB
                        Jr. BW-2 (and BW) has you looking through 10 feet of boat, a frame or two,
                        and then the Lexan is at an angle on the sides. The good view is through
                        the slot, at least if the jib is not in the way. I think the JB avoids
                        that obstruction, as does the very original BW. It beats not having the
                        windows, but it there is stuff in the way.

                        I found all the comments on hatches, including Bjorn Harbo's for the WDJ to
                        be very useful. I am going to experiment with hard covers for the forward
                        compartment and then decide what to do. I think the decision has been made
                        to proceed with BW-2! I can't start quite yet, as I have about a month's
                        more work on a spinning wheel project, plus a couple of other little
                        ones. The real decision is ordering some wood!

                        This all replaces a Catalina 22 , making the trailering and setup a lot
                        easier, allowing thinner water, while still allowing basic "camping." It
                        also lets me build another boat :-)

                        Thanks again to all for the comments.

                        Bob



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