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Re: [bolger] Birdwatcher Info

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  • Bob Larkin
    I plan to build BW II this winter, and have purchased the plans. Right now, I am making up plywood sheet layouts and a bill of materials. I too would be
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
      I plan to build BW II this winter, and have purchased the plans. Right now,
      I am making up plywood sheet layouts and a bill of materials. I too would
      be interested if someone has already done this. If not, I would be happy
      to share what I will have.

      I might add, for what we do, the BW II is ideal, but my only concern is
      figuring the best way to handle rainy weather. I'm in Oregon and we like to
      extend the season well before and after summer. The long canvas of BW or
      the hatches of BW II do not seem convenient, and I'm trying to sketch
      alternatives that could be used either under way, or at anchor (two
      different solutions, probably). If any one has ideas on this, i would like
      to hear about this.

      I'm also looking for trailer ideas...

      Bob Larkin
      Corvallis, OR



      > Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 03:37:33 -0000
      > From: "ltaprojects" <jsgmax@...>
      >Subject: Birdwatcher Info
      >
      >
      >I have really been interested in this design but not quite ready to
      >purchase plans. Does
      >anyone have a materials list for the original or Birwatcher II? Also,
      >general info on the
      >building process involved.
      >
      >Thanks much
      >Steve Garner
    • Paul
      Bob, Jim Michalak talks about the Birdwatcher I fabric cover here, about halfway down in the section titled WALKWAY COVERS... Apparently three people tried
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
        Bob,

        Jim Michalak talks about the Birdwatcher I fabric cover here, about
        halfway down in the section titled "WALKWAY COVERS..." Apparently
        three people tried plywood hatch covers, but eventually went back to
        soft covers:
        http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2000/1101/

        Paul

        > The long canvas of BW or the hatches of BW II do not seem
        convenient, and I'm trying to sketch alternatives that could be used
        either under way, or at anchor
      • Howard Stephenson
        There is more in Michalak s latest newsletter, at: http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/#Contents Howard ... about ... to
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
          There is more in Michalak's latest newsletter, at:

          http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/#Contents

          Howard

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <kayaker37@h...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Bob,
          >
          > Jim Michalak talks about the Birdwatcher I fabric cover here,
          about
          > halfway down in the section titled "WALKWAY COVERS..." Apparently
          > three people tried plywood hatch covers, but eventually went back
          to
          > soft covers:
          > http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2000/1101/
        • Rick Bedard
          Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they can pinch and when opened are in the way... I built and
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
            Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to
            seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they
            can pinch and when opened are in the way...

            I built and sail a Michalak "Birdwatcher" type with a
            24" x 8' slot and have a homemade cover made out of
            white plactic tarp that has held up well for two
            years. It's easy to fit or remove and even works under
            sail in moderate rain if you stuff an old towel around
            the mast where the cover has to be bunched up when the
            mast is up. A more talented person could cut and fit
            the tarp around the mast with a flap to cover the hole
            when the mast is down...

            Out of 1/2" pvc pipe, T's with the tops cut off, and
            45 degree elbows I made four bows that pinch fit the
            slot span and hold the tarp a few inches above the
            slot rails. Light line runs from the tarp edges out to
            the outer edge of the cabintop and back under the tarp
            and inside the rails (so they can be pulled snug and
            secured while inside the cabin). Has never leaked at
            anchor or in my backyard, yet air move in and out in
            the gap between the cabintop and tarp.

            Someone else suggested a pole or rod running fore and
            aft on the outside of one slot rail with canvas
            attached by one edge. Roll it up or unroll it like a
            windowshade and come up with some method to secure to
            the other slot rail. Would still need bows to keep it
            from sagging.

            Rick.


            > Paul
            >
            > > The long canvas of BW or the hatches of BW II do
            > not seem
            > convenient, and I'm trying to sketch alternatives
            > that could be used
            > either under way, or at anchor
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Paul
            Thanks for the link. He says: I m going to draw a narrower slot in future designs and go back to showing the plywood slot covers. Agreed. I have a Dovekie
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 2, 2004
              Thanks for the link. He says:

              "I'm going to draw a narrower slot in future designs and go back to
              showing the plywood slot covers."

              Agreed. I have a Dovekie and am still wanting to get around to making
              hard hatches. I am considering a BW1 and would like to add some kind
              of flip over hatches as well. In rough weather, or winter storage
              they would be much preferred over canvas. I'm also wondering what
              would happen if it did indeed get knocked completely over. Doesn't
              look pretty turned upside down.

              Paul

              > There is more in Michalak's latest newsletter, at:
              >
              > http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/#Contents
              >
              > Howard
            • Roger Derby
              That sounds like a good solution. Any chance of some pictures? Roger (It s early in the morning and I m having trouble picturing T s with the tops cut off. )
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 2, 2004
                That sounds like a good solution. Any chance of some pictures?

                Roger (It's early in the morning and I'm having trouble picturing "T's with
                the tops cut off.")
                derbyrm@...
                http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Rick Bedard" <sctree@...>

                > Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to
                > seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they
                > can pinch and when opened are in the way...
                >
                > I built and sail a Michalak "Birdwatcher" type with a
                > 24" x 8' slot and have a homemade cover made out of
                > white plactic tarp that has held up well for two
                > years. It's easy to fit or remove and even works under
                > sail in moderate rain if you stuff an old towel around
                > the mast where the cover has to be bunched up when the
                > mast is up. A more talented person could cut and fit
                > the tarp around the mast with a flap to cover the hole
                > when the mast is down...
                >
                > Out of 1/2" pvc pipe, T's with the tops cut off, and
                > 45 degree elbows I made four bows that pinch fit the
                > slot span and hold the tarp a few inches above the
                > slot rails. Light line runs from the tarp edges out to
                > the outer edge of the cabintop and back under the tarp
                > and inside the rails (so they can be pulled snug and
                > secured while inside the cabin). Has never leaked at
                > anchor or in my backyard, yet air move in and out in
                > the gap between the cabintop and tarp.
                >
                > Someone else suggested a pole or rod running fore and
                > aft on the outside of one slot rail with canvas
                > attached by one edge. Roll it up or unroll it like a
                > windowshade and come up with some method to secure to
                > the other slot rail. Would still need bows to keep it
                > from sagging.
                >
                > Rick.
              • Bob Larkin
                Thanks to Paul, Howard and Rick for the helpful comments on covering the Birdwatcher slot. I had not seen the Michalak articles, and these have now also been
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
                  Thanks to Paul, Howard and Rick for the helpful comments on covering the
                  Birdwatcher slot. I had not seen the Michalak articles, and these have now
                  also been contemplated!

                  I am inclined to consider this slot-cover question experimental and wait
                  until I have a boat to work with. When anchored, the problem is simple,
                  and a boom tent, covering at least the center compartment would provide
                  standing height and dryness. But, under way it gets interesting. I'll
                  start by having the ability to cover the forward compartment with a hard
                  hatch. Maybe the aft area, also. Then get out the scrap plastic tarps
                  and experiment. Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
                  poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
                  approaching. Hmmm....

                  Thanks again,
                  Bob
                • Rick Bedard
                  You re missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so excellent and all
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
                    You're missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so excellent and all around that there is no need to poke your head out.

                    Rick

                    Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                    Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
                    poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
                    approaching. Hmmm....

                    Thanks again,
                    Bob





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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bob Larkin
                    Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding deadhead logs
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
                      Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the
                      original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding
                      deadhead logs (missed a few, by feet, in the past), crab floats, kelp, gill
                      nets and the like. My habit is to watch a lot for this stuff! If I can't
                      do it easily, this becomes a concern.

                      I bet the right arrangement of covers and hatches will allow
                      this?? Without letting too much water inside.

                      Bob

                      At 12:50 PM 11/4/2004, you wrote:

                      > From: Rick Bedard <sctree@...>
                      >Subject: Re: Re: Birdwatcher Info
                      >
                      >You're missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my
                      >Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so
                      >excellent and all around that there is no need to poke your head out.
                      >
                      >Rick
                      >
                      >Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                      > Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
                      >poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
                      >approaching. Hmmm....
                      >
                      >Thanks again,
                      >Bob
                    • Rick Bedard
                      Bob, Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You re welcome to try mine out if you re within reach of central coast California.. The view is really
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
                        Bob,

                        Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You're welcome to try mine out if you're within reach of central coast California.. The view is really excellent. Not sure how much you would gain sticking your head out. Sorta like poking your head out of your car window in a rainstorm, what would you be gaining in visibility? OK, no windshield wipers on a boat like this... Hmmm? Well, Idunno....

                        Sounds like you venture out in weather that I would stay at anchor... The "rain" that I've sailed my JB Jr in most of you folks would laugh at.... you probably would use words like "drizzle" or "mist" or, or, "You mean those couple of raindrops?" ... I have sheltered inside, under my tarp slotcover, nice and dry, during a couple "several hour long rainy periods, and once, at anchor, during an all night downpour...

                        Back to your problem. If you must get your head out in a Michalak JB Jr on a rainy day, it's easy enough to take out the aft companionway dropboard (not really a board, it's a simple clear acrylic sheet) and sit very comfortably and securely, (in raingear), on the aft deck with your legs and feet inside the cabin. The tarp slotcover will still cover all the top, so the biggest leak would be what runs down your raingear. I guess a couple towels would be good for a while... A little puddle goes a long way in creating havoc in a flat bottomed boat....

                        Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher

                        Oh, and the logs and floats and stuff... Very light weight, flat bottomed, rockered, very shoal draft, kick-up leeboard and rudder, armored bottom (xynole-graphite)... I'd just run over that stuff... Or maybe stay at anchor.....

                        Rick

                        Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                        Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the
                        original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding
                        deadhead logs (missed a few, by feet, in the past), crab floats, kelp, gill
                        nets and the like. My habit is to watch a lot for this stuff! If I can't
                        do it easily, this becomes a concern.

                        I bet the right arrangement of covers and hatches will allow
                        this?? Without letting too much water inside.

                        Bob



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Bruce Hallman
                        ... bottomed boat.... ... The new Birdwatcher design has a raised floor, with a gutter along the edges to catch runoff, spilt beer, etc..
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 5, 2004
                          >... A little puddle goes a long way in creating havoc in a flat
                          bottomed boat....
                          >
                          > Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher
                          > Rick

                          The new Birdwatcher design has a raised floor, with a 'gutter' along the
                          edges to catch runoff, spilt beer, etc..
                        • Bob Larkin
                          Rick, I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to experience
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 7, 2004
                            Rick,

                            I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get
                            back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to
                            experience the Jewbox Jr. I have not been on (or seen) any of the BW types,
                            and it would be a good thing to do. Realisically, however, it is a bit more
                            of a trip than could happen soon. I may call on you, if an opportunity to
                            get down your way should arise.

                            Also, I didn't mean to sound like I only sail in the rain!! We even attempt
                            to avoid it. Never the less, it has happened quite a bit. We really like
                            to go to Puget Sound/San Juans or to the lower Columbia R. For various
                            reasons, including crowd reduction, this most often happens in September or
                            October. Rain and wind seem to be part of this, sometimes. The wind part
                            can be great!

                            Getting back to the boat, right after I got the BW-2 plans, I built a 16:1
                            model. It is open on one side, so I can peer forward from the aft
                            compartment. I don't think this view is nearly as good as that of as JB
                            Jr. BW-2 (and BW) has you looking through 10 feet of boat, a frame or two,
                            and then the Lexan is at an angle on the sides. The good view is through
                            the slot, at least if the jib is not in the way. I think the JB avoids
                            that obstruction, as does the very original BW. It beats not having the
                            windows, but it there is stuff in the way.

                            I found all the comments on hatches, including Bjorn Harbo's for the WDJ to
                            be very useful. I am going to experiment with hard covers for the forward
                            compartment and then decide what to do. I think the decision has been made
                            to proceed with BW-2! I can't start quite yet, as I have about a month's
                            more work on a spinning wheel project, plus a couple of other little
                            ones. The real decision is ordering some wood!

                            This all replaces a Catalina 22 , making the trailering and setup a lot
                            easier, allowing thinner water, while still allowing basic "camping." It
                            also lets me build another boat :-)

                            Thanks again to all for the comments.

                            Bob

                            At 12:43 PM 11/5/2004, Rick Bedard wrote:

                            >Bob,
                            >
                            >Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You're welcome to try
                            >mine out if you're within reach of central coast California.. The view is
                            >really excellent. Not sure how much you would gain sticking your head out.
                            >Sorta like poking your head out of your car window in a rainstorm, what
                            >would you be gaining in visibility? OK, no windshield wipers on a boat
                            >like this.. Hmmm? Well, Idunno....
                            >
                            >Sounds like you venture out in weather that I would stay at anchor... The
                            >"rain" that I've sailed my JB Jr in most of you folks would laugh at....
                            >you probably would use words like "drizzle" or "mist" or, or, "You mean
                            >those couple of raindrops?" ... I have sheltered inside, under my tarp
                            >slotcover, nice and dry, during a couple "several hour long rainy periods,
                            >and once, at anchor, during an all night downpour...
                            >
                            >Back to your problem. If you must get your head out in a Michalak JB Jr on
                            >a rainy day, it's easy enough to take out the aft companionway dropboard
                            >(not really a board, it's a simple clear acrylic sheet) and sit very
                            >comfortably and securely, (in raingear), on the aft deck with your legs
                            >and feet inside the cabin. The tarp slotcover will still cover all the
                            >top, so the biggest leak would be what runs down your raingear. I guess a
                            >couple towels would be good for a while... A little puddle goes a long way
                            >in creating havoc in a flat bottomed boat....
                            >
                            > Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher
                            >
                            >Oh, and the logs and floats and stuff... Very light weight, flat bottomed,
                            >rockered, very shoal draft, kick-up leeboard and rudder, armored bottom
                            >(xynole-graphite)... I'd just run over that stuff... Or maybe stay at
                            >anchor....
                            >
                            >Rick
                          • Rick Bedard
                            I d bet the view will be better than you think.. The analogy with your model would be looking out through the windows of a plastic model car compared to
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 7, 2004
                              I'd bet the view will be better than you think.. The analogy with your model would be looking out through the windows of a plastic model car compared to sitting in a real life car of the same make... It's different in real life scale...

                              Hard hatches... What Bolger does with Jochems schooner looks sorta like a bifold door. The perimeter overhangs the slot framing and the mid doors gap is waterproofed by a foam strip that gets pinched when the hatch is closed. The Jochem's slot is divided into several, (I think 3) sections with decking between. If you did that on Birdwatcher you'd lose the ability to stroll standing-up from one end of the cabin to the other...Plus you'll need to have the cabintop space that the door folds over on clear.

                              Happy boatbuilding...
                              Rick


                              Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                              Rick,

                              I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get
                              back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to
                              experience the Jewbox Jr. I have not been on (or seen) any of the BW types,
                              and it would be a good thing to do. Realisically, however, it is a bit more
                              of a trip than could happen soon. I may call on you, if an opportunity to
                              get down your way should arise.

                              Also, I didn't mean to sound like I only sail in the rain!! We even attempt
                              to avoid it. Never the less, it has happened quite a bit. We really like
                              to go to Puget Sound/San Juans or to the lower Columbia R. For various
                              reasons, including crowd reduction, this most often happens in September or
                              October. Rain and wind seem to be part of this, sometimes. The wind part
                              can be great!

                              Getting back to the boat, right after I got the BW-2 plans, I built a 16:1
                              model. It is open on one side, so I can peer forward from the aft
                              compartment. I don't think this view is nearly as good as that of as JB
                              Jr. BW-2 (and BW) has you looking through 10 feet of boat, a frame or two,
                              and then the Lexan is at an angle on the sides. The good view is through
                              the slot, at least if the jib is not in the way. I think the JB avoids
                              that obstruction, as does the very original BW. It beats not having the
                              windows, but it there is stuff in the way.

                              I found all the comments on hatches, including Bjorn Harbo's for the WDJ to
                              be very useful. I am going to experiment with hard covers for the forward
                              compartment and then decide what to do. I think the decision has been made
                              to proceed with BW-2! I can't start quite yet, as I have about a month's
                              more work on a spinning wheel project, plus a couple of other little
                              ones. The real decision is ordering some wood!

                              This all replaces a Catalina 22 , making the trailering and setup a lot
                              easier, allowing thinner water, while still allowing basic "camping." It
                              also lets me build another boat :-)

                              Thanks again to all for the comments.

                              Bob



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