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Re: [bolger] Re: Birdwatcher Info

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... The first Spartan Birdwatcher, had two sail rig options, a simple 125 sf spritsail cat rig. [a main sail only] Or, a more complex 185 sf gunter sloop
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
      > It appears there are now 2 Birdwatchers?

      The first 'Spartan' Birdwatcher, had two sail rig options,
      a simple 125 sf spritsail 'cat' rig. [a main sail only]
      Or, a more complex 185 sf gunter sloop rig.

      The second 'deluxe' Birdwatcher II added many
      cruising features/improvements, including an
      outboard motor mount. Whether you need/want
      these added features depends on your personal
      preference between Spartan and deluxe. There
      are good arguments for both philosophies.

      I bet an original Birdwatcher could be built in half
      the time (and 1/3 the cost) of a Birdwatcher II
      And the spritsail could be launched and sailed away
      twice as fast as the sloop too. But in light air, the
      bigger rigs would pass her, and the outboard would
      pass them all in a calm.

      There has been a lot of discussion on this group
      about this, be sure to read back through the archive.
    • Bob Larkin
      I plan to build BW II this winter, and have purchased the plans. Right now, I am making up plywood sheet layouts and a bill of materials. I too would be
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
        I plan to build BW II this winter, and have purchased the plans. Right now,
        I am making up plywood sheet layouts and a bill of materials. I too would
        be interested if someone has already done this. If not, I would be happy
        to share what I will have.

        I might add, for what we do, the BW II is ideal, but my only concern is
        figuring the best way to handle rainy weather. I'm in Oregon and we like to
        extend the season well before and after summer. The long canvas of BW or
        the hatches of BW II do not seem convenient, and I'm trying to sketch
        alternatives that could be used either under way, or at anchor (two
        different solutions, probably). If any one has ideas on this, i would like
        to hear about this.

        I'm also looking for trailer ideas...

        Bob Larkin
        Corvallis, OR



        > Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 03:37:33 -0000
        > From: "ltaprojects" <jsgmax@...>
        >Subject: Birdwatcher Info
        >
        >
        >I have really been interested in this design but not quite ready to
        >purchase plans. Does
        >anyone have a materials list for the original or Birwatcher II? Also,
        >general info on the
        >building process involved.
        >
        >Thanks much
        >Steve Garner
      • Paul
        Bob, Jim Michalak talks about the Birdwatcher I fabric cover here, about halfway down in the section titled WALKWAY COVERS... Apparently three people tried
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
          Bob,

          Jim Michalak talks about the Birdwatcher I fabric cover here, about
          halfway down in the section titled "WALKWAY COVERS..." Apparently
          three people tried plywood hatch covers, but eventually went back to
          soft covers:
          http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2000/1101/

          Paul

          > The long canvas of BW or the hatches of BW II do not seem
          convenient, and I'm trying to sketch alternatives that could be used
          either under way, or at anchor
        • Howard Stephenson
          There is more in Michalak s latest newsletter, at: http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/#Contents Howard ... about ... to
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
            There is more in Michalak's latest newsletter, at:

            http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/#Contents

            Howard

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <kayaker37@h...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Bob,
            >
            > Jim Michalak talks about the Birdwatcher I fabric cover here,
            about
            > halfway down in the section titled "WALKWAY COVERS..." Apparently
            > three people tried plywood hatch covers, but eventually went back
            to
            > soft covers:
            > http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2000/1101/
          • Rick Bedard
            Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they can pinch and when opened are in the way... I built and
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
              Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to
              seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they
              can pinch and when opened are in the way...

              I built and sail a Michalak "Birdwatcher" type with a
              24" x 8' slot and have a homemade cover made out of
              white plactic tarp that has held up well for two
              years. It's easy to fit or remove and even works under
              sail in moderate rain if you stuff an old towel around
              the mast where the cover has to be bunched up when the
              mast is up. A more talented person could cut and fit
              the tarp around the mast with a flap to cover the hole
              when the mast is down...

              Out of 1/2" pvc pipe, T's with the tops cut off, and
              45 degree elbows I made four bows that pinch fit the
              slot span and hold the tarp a few inches above the
              slot rails. Light line runs from the tarp edges out to
              the outer edge of the cabintop and back under the tarp
              and inside the rails (so they can be pulled snug and
              secured while inside the cabin). Has never leaked at
              anchor or in my backyard, yet air move in and out in
              the gap between the cabintop and tarp.

              Someone else suggested a pole or rod running fore and
              aft on the outside of one slot rail with canvas
              attached by one edge. Roll it up or unroll it like a
              windowshade and come up with some method to secure to
              the other slot rail. Would still need bows to keep it
              from sagging.

              Rick.


              > Paul
              >
              > > The long canvas of BW or the hatches of BW II do
              > not seem
              > convenient, and I'm trying to sketch alternatives
              > that could be used
              > either under way, or at anchor
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Paul
              Thanks for the link. He says: I m going to draw a narrower slot in future designs and go back to showing the plywood slot covers. Agreed. I have a Dovekie
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 2, 2004
                Thanks for the link. He says:

                "I'm going to draw a narrower slot in future designs and go back to
                showing the plywood slot covers."

                Agreed. I have a Dovekie and am still wanting to get around to making
                hard hatches. I am considering a BW1 and would like to add some kind
                of flip over hatches as well. In rough weather, or winter storage
                they would be much preferred over canvas. I'm also wondering what
                would happen if it did indeed get knocked completely over. Doesn't
                look pretty turned upside down.

                Paul

                > There is more in Michalak's latest newsletter, at:
                >
                > http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/#Contents
                >
                > Howard
              • Roger Derby
                That sounds like a good solution. Any chance of some pictures? Roger (It s early in the morning and I m having trouble picturing T s with the tops cut off. )
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 2, 2004
                  That sounds like a good solution. Any chance of some pictures?

                  Roger (It's early in the morning and I'm having trouble picturing "T's with
                  the tops cut off.")
                  derbyrm@...
                  http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Rick Bedard" <sctree@...>

                  > Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to
                  > seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they
                  > can pinch and when opened are in the way...
                  >
                  > I built and sail a Michalak "Birdwatcher" type with a
                  > 24" x 8' slot and have a homemade cover made out of
                  > white plactic tarp that has held up well for two
                  > years. It's easy to fit or remove and even works under
                  > sail in moderate rain if you stuff an old towel around
                  > the mast where the cover has to be bunched up when the
                  > mast is up. A more talented person could cut and fit
                  > the tarp around the mast with a flap to cover the hole
                  > when the mast is down...
                  >
                  > Out of 1/2" pvc pipe, T's with the tops cut off, and
                  > 45 degree elbows I made four bows that pinch fit the
                  > slot span and hold the tarp a few inches above the
                  > slot rails. Light line runs from the tarp edges out to
                  > the outer edge of the cabintop and back under the tarp
                  > and inside the rails (so they can be pulled snug and
                  > secured while inside the cabin). Has never leaked at
                  > anchor or in my backyard, yet air move in and out in
                  > the gap between the cabintop and tarp.
                  >
                  > Someone else suggested a pole or rod running fore and
                  > aft on the outside of one slot rail with canvas
                  > attached by one edge. Roll it up or unroll it like a
                  > windowshade and come up with some method to secure to
                  > the other slot rail. Would still need bows to keep it
                  > from sagging.
                  >
                  > Rick.
                • Bob Larkin
                  Thanks to Paul, Howard and Rick for the helpful comments on covering the Birdwatcher slot. I had not seen the Michalak articles, and these have now also been
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
                    Thanks to Paul, Howard and Rick for the helpful comments on covering the
                    Birdwatcher slot. I had not seen the Michalak articles, and these have now
                    also been contemplated!

                    I am inclined to consider this slot-cover question experimental and wait
                    until I have a boat to work with. When anchored, the problem is simple,
                    and a boom tent, covering at least the center compartment would provide
                    standing height and dryness. But, under way it gets interesting. I'll
                    start by having the ability to cover the forward compartment with a hard
                    hatch. Maybe the aft area, also. Then get out the scrap plastic tarps
                    and experiment. Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
                    poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
                    approaching. Hmmm....

                    Thanks again,
                    Bob
                  • Rick Bedard
                    You re missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so excellent and all
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
                      You're missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so excellent and all around that there is no need to poke your head out.

                      Rick

                      Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                      Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
                      poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
                      approaching. Hmmm....

                      Thanks again,
                      Bob





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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bob Larkin
                      Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding deadhead logs
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
                        Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the
                        original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding
                        deadhead logs (missed a few, by feet, in the past), crab floats, kelp, gill
                        nets and the like. My habit is to watch a lot for this stuff! If I can't
                        do it easily, this becomes a concern.

                        I bet the right arrangement of covers and hatches will allow
                        this?? Without letting too much water inside.

                        Bob

                        At 12:50 PM 11/4/2004, you wrote:

                        > From: Rick Bedard <sctree@...>
                        >Subject: Re: Re: Birdwatcher Info
                        >
                        >You're missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my
                        >Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so
                        >excellent and all around that there is no need to poke your head out.
                        >
                        >Rick
                        >
                        >Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                        > Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
                        >poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
                        >approaching. Hmmm....
                        >
                        >Thanks again,
                        >Bob
                      • Rick Bedard
                        Bob, Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You re welcome to try mine out if you re within reach of central coast California.. The view is really
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
                          Bob,

                          Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You're welcome to try mine out if you're within reach of central coast California.. The view is really excellent. Not sure how much you would gain sticking your head out. Sorta like poking your head out of your car window in a rainstorm, what would you be gaining in visibility? OK, no windshield wipers on a boat like this... Hmmm? Well, Idunno....

                          Sounds like you venture out in weather that I would stay at anchor... The "rain" that I've sailed my JB Jr in most of you folks would laugh at.... you probably would use words like "drizzle" or "mist" or, or, "You mean those couple of raindrops?" ... I have sheltered inside, under my tarp slotcover, nice and dry, during a couple "several hour long rainy periods, and once, at anchor, during an all night downpour...

                          Back to your problem. If you must get your head out in a Michalak JB Jr on a rainy day, it's easy enough to take out the aft companionway dropboard (not really a board, it's a simple clear acrylic sheet) and sit very comfortably and securely, (in raingear), on the aft deck with your legs and feet inside the cabin. The tarp slotcover will still cover all the top, so the biggest leak would be what runs down your raingear. I guess a couple towels would be good for a while... A little puddle goes a long way in creating havoc in a flat bottomed boat....

                          Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher

                          Oh, and the logs and floats and stuff... Very light weight, flat bottomed, rockered, very shoal draft, kick-up leeboard and rudder, armored bottom (xynole-graphite)... I'd just run over that stuff... Or maybe stay at anchor.....

                          Rick

                          Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                          Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the
                          original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding
                          deadhead logs (missed a few, by feet, in the past), crab floats, kelp, gill
                          nets and the like. My habit is to watch a lot for this stuff! If I can't
                          do it easily, this becomes a concern.

                          I bet the right arrangement of covers and hatches will allow
                          this?? Without letting too much water inside.

                          Bob



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bruce Hallman
                          ... bottomed boat.... ... The new Birdwatcher design has a raised floor, with a gutter along the edges to catch runoff, spilt beer, etc..
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 5, 2004
                            >... A little puddle goes a long way in creating havoc in a flat
                            bottomed boat....
                            >
                            > Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher
                            > Rick

                            The new Birdwatcher design has a raised floor, with a 'gutter' along the
                            edges to catch runoff, spilt beer, etc..
                          • Bob Larkin
                            Rick, I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to experience
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 7, 2004
                              Rick,

                              I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get
                              back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to
                              experience the Jewbox Jr. I have not been on (or seen) any of the BW types,
                              and it would be a good thing to do. Realisically, however, it is a bit more
                              of a trip than could happen soon. I may call on you, if an opportunity to
                              get down your way should arise.

                              Also, I didn't mean to sound like I only sail in the rain!! We even attempt
                              to avoid it. Never the less, it has happened quite a bit. We really like
                              to go to Puget Sound/San Juans or to the lower Columbia R. For various
                              reasons, including crowd reduction, this most often happens in September or
                              October. Rain and wind seem to be part of this, sometimes. The wind part
                              can be great!

                              Getting back to the boat, right after I got the BW-2 plans, I built a 16:1
                              model. It is open on one side, so I can peer forward from the aft
                              compartment. I don't think this view is nearly as good as that of as JB
                              Jr. BW-2 (and BW) has you looking through 10 feet of boat, a frame or two,
                              and then the Lexan is at an angle on the sides. The good view is through
                              the slot, at least if the jib is not in the way. I think the JB avoids
                              that obstruction, as does the very original BW. It beats not having the
                              windows, but it there is stuff in the way.

                              I found all the comments on hatches, including Bjorn Harbo's for the WDJ to
                              be very useful. I am going to experiment with hard covers for the forward
                              compartment and then decide what to do. I think the decision has been made
                              to proceed with BW-2! I can't start quite yet, as I have about a month's
                              more work on a spinning wheel project, plus a couple of other little
                              ones. The real decision is ordering some wood!

                              This all replaces a Catalina 22 , making the trailering and setup a lot
                              easier, allowing thinner water, while still allowing basic "camping." It
                              also lets me build another boat :-)

                              Thanks again to all for the comments.

                              Bob

                              At 12:43 PM 11/5/2004, Rick Bedard wrote:

                              >Bob,
                              >
                              >Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You're welcome to try
                              >mine out if you're within reach of central coast California.. The view is
                              >really excellent. Not sure how much you would gain sticking your head out.
                              >Sorta like poking your head out of your car window in a rainstorm, what
                              >would you be gaining in visibility? OK, no windshield wipers on a boat
                              >like this.. Hmmm? Well, Idunno....
                              >
                              >Sounds like you venture out in weather that I would stay at anchor... The
                              >"rain" that I've sailed my JB Jr in most of you folks would laugh at....
                              >you probably would use words like "drizzle" or "mist" or, or, "You mean
                              >those couple of raindrops?" ... I have sheltered inside, under my tarp
                              >slotcover, nice and dry, during a couple "several hour long rainy periods,
                              >and once, at anchor, during an all night downpour...
                              >
                              >Back to your problem. If you must get your head out in a Michalak JB Jr on
                              >a rainy day, it's easy enough to take out the aft companionway dropboard
                              >(not really a board, it's a simple clear acrylic sheet) and sit very
                              >comfortably and securely, (in raingear), on the aft deck with your legs
                              >and feet inside the cabin. The tarp slotcover will still cover all the
                              >top, so the biggest leak would be what runs down your raingear. I guess a
                              >couple towels would be good for a while... A little puddle goes a long way
                              >in creating havoc in a flat bottomed boat....
                              >
                              > Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher
                              >
                              >Oh, and the logs and floats and stuff... Very light weight, flat bottomed,
                              >rockered, very shoal draft, kick-up leeboard and rudder, armored bottom
                              >(xynole-graphite)... I'd just run over that stuff... Or maybe stay at
                              >anchor....
                              >
                              >Rick
                            • Rick Bedard
                              I d bet the view will be better than you think.. The analogy with your model would be looking out through the windows of a plastic model car compared to
                              Message 14 of 16 , Nov 7, 2004
                                I'd bet the view will be better than you think.. The analogy with your model would be looking out through the windows of a plastic model car compared to sitting in a real life car of the same make... It's different in real life scale...

                                Hard hatches... What Bolger does with Jochems schooner looks sorta like a bifold door. The perimeter overhangs the slot framing and the mid doors gap is waterproofed by a foam strip that gets pinched when the hatch is closed. The Jochem's slot is divided into several, (I think 3) sections with decking between. If you did that on Birdwatcher you'd lose the ability to stroll standing-up from one end of the cabin to the other...Plus you'll need to have the cabintop space that the door folds over on clear.

                                Happy boatbuilding...
                                Rick


                                Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                                Rick,

                                I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get
                                back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to
                                experience the Jewbox Jr. I have not been on (or seen) any of the BW types,
                                and it would be a good thing to do. Realisically, however, it is a bit more
                                of a trip than could happen soon. I may call on you, if an opportunity to
                                get down your way should arise.

                                Also, I didn't mean to sound like I only sail in the rain!! We even attempt
                                to avoid it. Never the less, it has happened quite a bit. We really like
                                to go to Puget Sound/San Juans or to the lower Columbia R. For various
                                reasons, including crowd reduction, this most often happens in September or
                                October. Rain and wind seem to be part of this, sometimes. The wind part
                                can be great!

                                Getting back to the boat, right after I got the BW-2 plans, I built a 16:1
                                model. It is open on one side, so I can peer forward from the aft
                                compartment. I don't think this view is nearly as good as that of as JB
                                Jr. BW-2 (and BW) has you looking through 10 feet of boat, a frame or two,
                                and then the Lexan is at an angle on the sides. The good view is through
                                the slot, at least if the jib is not in the way. I think the JB avoids
                                that obstruction, as does the very original BW. It beats not having the
                                windows, but it there is stuff in the way.

                                I found all the comments on hatches, including Bjorn Harbo's for the WDJ to
                                be very useful. I am going to experiment with hard covers for the forward
                                compartment and then decide what to do. I think the decision has been made
                                to proceed with BW-2! I can't start quite yet, as I have about a month's
                                more work on a spinning wheel project, plus a couple of other little
                                ones. The real decision is ordering some wood!

                                This all replaces a Catalina 22 , making the trailering and setup a lot
                                easier, allowing thinner water, while still allowing basic "camping." It
                                also lets me build another boat :-)

                                Thanks again to all for the comments.

                                Bob



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