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Chebacco sails

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  • seagulloutb
    Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova Scotia. Fraser, in my
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
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      Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
      foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
      Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
      jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
      private email to me:
      =======
      "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
      mast, at
      least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy to
      overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink off the
      wind without one. The only time I've been in real difficulty is with
      too
      much power dead downwind. The jib is problematic. Its good in light
      breezes, but with the main up, needs two people to handle if you are
      going to be tacking much. Too many lines to handle alone, especially
      in
      close quarters. I wisker it out no the boathook when running.
      However,
      jib and mizzen alone can be handy for trolling or just making other
      boats wonder what the heck you are! I had hoped that a jib would
      improve
      upwind performance, but it doesn't. I can tack through 90 degrees,
      but
      am pinching to do so."
      ====
      Moreover I contacted Sailrite and got their fix (of course they sell
      and might not be able to say "not needed" but in any event): add a 3'
      bow sprit and then a larger jib is something they'd do (for over $200
      as a kit); or add a 6 to 8' pole for an even larger sail, and they'd
      come up with an asymmetrical spinnaker. But, given Fraser's comments
      as well as Phil Bolger's design drawing of the sail plan, I'd not be
      tempted, at least not for the coming season.
    • Roger Derby
      I m going thru O Brian s Aubrey/Maturing series again and I was struck by the fact that one needed to carefully time and sequence the spreading of the sails.
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
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        I'm going thru O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturing series again and I was struck by
        the fact that one needed to carefully time and sequence the spreading of the
        sails. Set too much, too fast and the masts go. Add small increments after
        the hull has come up to speed and you can get away with it.

        Dinghies don't have the inertia of a 50 gun ship of the line, and our
        shrouds are better stuff, but the idea's still valid.

        Sailing downwind is DANGEROUS. There's little apparent wind to let you know
        you've waited too long to reef, and if you round up or broach you get the
        full effect RIGHT NOW!

        Roger (what's "I @ S" ????)
        derbyrm@...
        http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@...>

        > Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
        > foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
        > Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
        > jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
        > private email to me:
        > =======
        > "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
        > mast, at least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy
        > to overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink
        > off the wind without one. The only time I've been in real difficulty is
        > with too much power dead downwind. The jib is problematic. Its
        > good in light breezes, but with the main up, needs two people to
        > handle if you are going to be tacking much.
      • Nels
        ... the ... Hi Roger, Methinks he refers to the name of his Chebacco, but I can t recall it right now. I will though - right after I hit the send button:-) Not
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
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          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
          > foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
          > Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
          > jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
          > private email to me:
          > =======
          > "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
          > mast, at
          > least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy to
          > overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink off
          the
          > wind without one.

          Hi Roger,

          Methinks he refers to the name of his Chebacco, but I can't recall it
          right now. I will though - right after I hit the send button:-)

          Not meaning to put words in Jamie Orr's mouth but I believe what he
          was interested in, was using it when the winds are under 10 knots and
          looking like they will stay that way. Something to do before
          unshipping the yuloh or firing up the stink pot.

          Reading 100 Small Boat Rigs - Rig #51 almost looks like it is a gaff
          rig on a Micro with a spinnaker. But he goes on to explain that it is
          a scow hull with a large well forward in which a second hand can
          stand while working the spinnaker.

          This may be another reason why the latest up-date of Micro Navigator
          has a larger forward well, and a second companionway forward -
          allowing fof a spinnaker option to be suggested. Also, if an aluminum
          pipe is used for a mast, it might have the added stiffness allowing
          the spinnaker to work more efficiently than with a tapered wooden
          mast. Another option might be an untapered birdsmouth mast with some
          added carbon fiber.

          Looks like a nice option to have, if all the other changes are in
          place.

          Cheers, Nels
        • Roger Derby
          You got it. Frazer Howell s boat is named Itchy and Scratchy. (From the Registry at http://www.chebacco.com/ ) Thanks, Roger derbyrm@starband.net
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
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            You got it. Frazer Howell's boat is named "Itchy and Scratchy."

            (From the Registry at http://www.chebacco.com/ )

            Thanks,
            Roger
            derbyrm@...
            http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
            > wrote:
            >> Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
            >> foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
            >> Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
            >> jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
            >> private email to me:
            >> =======
            >> "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
            >> mast, at least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy
            >> to overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink
            >> off the wind without one.
            >
            > Hi Roger,
            >
            > Methinks he refers to the name of his Chebacco, but I can't recall it
            > right now. I will though - right after I hit the send button:-)
          • paulthober
            I think the reason for the mizzen is to provide balance - at least that is what I found. It (the mizzen) provides little drive, but allowed me to trim the
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 1, 2004
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              I think the reason for the mizzen is to provide balance - at least
              that is what I found. It (the mizzen) provides little drive, but
              allowed me to trim the sails to where I didn't need to steer or even
              lash the tiller when sailing upwind - an admirable trait when
              singlehanding. Were I to suggest any changes to the rig it would be to
              increase the areas of both sails, particularly the main to give the
              boat a bit more umph in light airs as this would not increase the
              complexity of the rig - one would merely need to reef sooner.

              Paul Thober

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Paxton" <bill@p...> wrote:
              > Most of the catboats I've seen have one large mainsail. Sometimes
              > they might have a small jib. Why is the Chebacco designed with a
              > mizzen?
            • Richard Spelling
              hehe Talk to Vincenzo Ciminale. He uses a jib, and a mizzen staysail... http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco15.10/article.htm ... to ... the ... with ...
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 13, 2005
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                hehe
                Talk to Vincenzo Ciminale. He uses a jib, and a mizzen staysail...

                http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco15.10/article.htm

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "seagulloutb" <dickburnham1@a...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Thinking about the earlier conversation here on the use/design of
                > foresails on the Chebacco, I wrote to Fraser Howell up in Nova
                > Scotia. Fraser, in my opinion, was a heck of an experimenter with
                > jibs and the like on his Chebacco. Here are his comments from a
                > private email to me:
                > =======
                > "I think that a spinnaker may be too much for an unstayed wooden
                > mast, at
                > least in anything greater that 10 kt. I've found that it is easy
                to
                > overpower I @ S. Plus who needs it. Chebacco goes like stink off
                the
                > wind without one. The only time I've been in real difficulty is
                with
                > too
                > much power dead downwind. The jib is problematic. Its good in
                light
                > breezes, but with the main up, needs two people to handle if you
                are
                > going to be tacking much. Too many lines to handle alone,
                especially
                > in
                > close quarters. I wisker it out no the boathook when running.
                > However,
                > jib and mizzen alone can be handy for trolling or just making
                other
                > boats wonder what the heck you are! I had hoped that a jib would
                > improve
                > upwind performance, but it doesn't. I can tack through 90 degrees,
                > but
                > am pinching to do so."
                > ====
                > Moreover I contacted Sailrite and got their fix (of course they
                sell
                > and might not be able to say "not needed" but in any event): add a
                3'
                > bow sprit and then a larger jib is something they'd do (for over
                $200
                > as a kit); or add a 6 to 8' pole for an even larger sail, and
                they'd
                > come up with an asymmetrical spinnaker. But, given Fraser's
                comments
                > as well as Phil Bolger's design drawing of the sail plan, I'd not
                be
                > tempted, at least not for the coming season.
              • derbyrm
                I m getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and wonder about the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20 Chebacco with and without the jib? Does
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 27, 2007
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                  I'm getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and wonder about
                  the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20' Chebacco with and without the
                  jib? Does it make a huge improvement?

                  Roger
                  derbyrm@...
                  http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
                • Nels
                  ... about ... without the ... http://chebacco.com/ Maybe check directly with some of the owners - like Ben Ho. I think about four Chebaccos have jibs. The
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 27, 2007
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and wonder
                    about
                    > the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20' Chebacco with and
                    without the
                    > jib? Does it make a huge improvement?
                    >
                    > Roger
                    > derbyrm@...
                    > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
                    >
                    http://chebacco.com/

                    Maybe check directly with some of the owners - like Ben Ho. I think
                    about four Chebaccos have jibs. The concensus seems to be - it depends.

                    Seems hardly worth the effort if solo and yet might entertain a bored
                    crew.

                    Nels
                  • Jamie Orr
                    Hi Roger, I have the jib, as drawn by PCB, and I can tell you it really isn t worth it (my opinion based on my experience) unless you put on a bowsprit. I
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 27, 2007
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                      Hi Roger,

                      I have the jib, as drawn by PCB, and I can tell you it really isn't
                      worth it (my opinion based on my experience) unless you put on a
                      bowsprit. I don't have a bowsprit, so I have the tack at the bow of
                      my Chebacco. When both main and jib are set, going to windward the
                      jib spoils the flow to the main, and running, it is blanketed by the
                      main. If set with the mizzen only, no main, it worked well downwind
                      and across the wind instead of reefing the main in stronger wind,
                      but
                      I've never found it worthwhile doing much with it. One day I'll
                      probably try a bowsprit but meanwhile I like the simplicity of the
                      original rig.

                      Chuck Gottfried uses a larger jib, Sailrite has the dimensions, and
                      he
                      also has a bowsprit -- you can reach him for details by going to
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sucia/ He also has roller furling and
                      this arrangement has been very effective. I've sailed alongside him
                      (and behind him!)

                      The new owner of Sylvester, Richard, also uses a larger jib on a
                      bowsprit and has had good experience with it. You can find him
                      through www.chebacco.com

                      Cheers,

                      Jamie Orr
                      Chebacco Wayward Lass


                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I'm getting ready to order sails (MANY months premature) and
                      wonder
                      about
                      > the jib they offer. Has anyone sailed a 20' Chebacco with and
                      without the
                      > jib? Does it make a huge improvement?
                      >
                      > Roger
                      > derbyrm@...
                      > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
                      >
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