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Birdwatcher Info

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  • ltaprojects
    I have really been interested in this design but not quite ready to purchase plans. Does anyone have a materials list for the original or Birwatcher II?
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 31, 2004
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      I have really been interested in this design but not quite ready to purchase plans. Does
      anyone have a materials list for the original or Birwatcher II? Also, general info on the
      building process involved.

      Thanks much
      Steve Garner
    • donschultz8275
      ... purchase plans. Does ... Steve, Bolger s Boats with an Open Mind has an essay, and drawings of the Birdwatcher with over 70 other Bolger designs. Some
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 31, 2004
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ltaprojects" <jsgmax@t...> wrote:
        >
        > I have really been interested in this design but not quite ready to
        purchase plans. Does
        > anyone have..........

        Steve,

        Bolger's Boats with an Open Mind has an essay, and drawings of the
        Birdwatcher with over 70 other Bolger designs. Some are so complete
        one could build from them.

        You might also fax Bolger, asking about a study plan.

        It appears there are now 2 Birdwatchers?
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... The first Spartan Birdwatcher, had two sail rig options, a simple 125 sf spritsail cat rig. [a main sail only] Or, a more complex 185 sf gunter sloop
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
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          > It appears there are now 2 Birdwatchers?

          The first 'Spartan' Birdwatcher, had two sail rig options,
          a simple 125 sf spritsail 'cat' rig. [a main sail only]
          Or, a more complex 185 sf gunter sloop rig.

          The second 'deluxe' Birdwatcher II added many
          cruising features/improvements, including an
          outboard motor mount. Whether you need/want
          these added features depends on your personal
          preference between Spartan and deluxe. There
          are good arguments for both philosophies.

          I bet an original Birdwatcher could be built in half
          the time (and 1/3 the cost) of a Birdwatcher II
          And the spritsail could be launched and sailed away
          twice as fast as the sloop too. But in light air, the
          bigger rigs would pass her, and the outboard would
          pass them all in a calm.

          There has been a lot of discussion on this group
          about this, be sure to read back through the archive.
        • Bob Larkin
          I plan to build BW II this winter, and have purchased the plans. Right now, I am making up plywood sheet layouts and a bill of materials. I too would be
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
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            I plan to build BW II this winter, and have purchased the plans. Right now,
            I am making up plywood sheet layouts and a bill of materials. I too would
            be interested if someone has already done this. If not, I would be happy
            to share what I will have.

            I might add, for what we do, the BW II is ideal, but my only concern is
            figuring the best way to handle rainy weather. I'm in Oregon and we like to
            extend the season well before and after summer. The long canvas of BW or
            the hatches of BW II do not seem convenient, and I'm trying to sketch
            alternatives that could be used either under way, or at anchor (two
            different solutions, probably). If any one has ideas on this, i would like
            to hear about this.

            I'm also looking for trailer ideas...

            Bob Larkin
            Corvallis, OR



            > Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 03:37:33 -0000
            > From: "ltaprojects" <jsgmax@...>
            >Subject: Birdwatcher Info
            >
            >
            >I have really been interested in this design but not quite ready to
            >purchase plans. Does
            >anyone have a materials list for the original or Birwatcher II? Also,
            >general info on the
            >building process involved.
            >
            >Thanks much
            >Steve Garner
          • Paul
            Bob, Jim Michalak talks about the Birdwatcher I fabric cover here, about halfway down in the section titled WALKWAY COVERS... Apparently three people tried
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
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              Bob,

              Jim Michalak talks about the Birdwatcher I fabric cover here, about
              halfway down in the section titled "WALKWAY COVERS..." Apparently
              three people tried plywood hatch covers, but eventually went back to
              soft covers:
              http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2000/1101/

              Paul

              > The long canvas of BW or the hatches of BW II do not seem
              convenient, and I'm trying to sketch alternatives that could be used
              either under way, or at anchor
            • Howard Stephenson
              There is more in Michalak s latest newsletter, at: http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/#Contents Howard ... about ... to
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
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                There is more in Michalak's latest newsletter, at:

                http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/#Contents

                Howard

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <kayaker37@h...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Bob,
                >
                > Jim Michalak talks about the Birdwatcher I fabric cover here,
                about
                > halfway down in the section titled "WALKWAY COVERS..." Apparently
                > three people tried plywood hatch covers, but eventually went back
                to
                > soft covers:
                > http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2000/1101/
              • Rick Bedard
                Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they can pinch and when opened are in the way... I built and
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 1, 2004
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                  Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to
                  seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they
                  can pinch and when opened are in the way...

                  I built and sail a Michalak "Birdwatcher" type with a
                  24" x 8' slot and have a homemade cover made out of
                  white plactic tarp that has held up well for two
                  years. It's easy to fit or remove and even works under
                  sail in moderate rain if you stuff an old towel around
                  the mast where the cover has to be bunched up when the
                  mast is up. A more talented person could cut and fit
                  the tarp around the mast with a flap to cover the hole
                  when the mast is down...

                  Out of 1/2" pvc pipe, T's with the tops cut off, and
                  45 degree elbows I made four bows that pinch fit the
                  slot span and hold the tarp a few inches above the
                  slot rails. Light line runs from the tarp edges out to
                  the outer edge of the cabintop and back under the tarp
                  and inside the rails (so they can be pulled snug and
                  secured while inside the cabin). Has never leaked at
                  anchor or in my backyard, yet air move in and out in
                  the gap between the cabintop and tarp.

                  Someone else suggested a pole or rod running fore and
                  aft on the outside of one slot rail with canvas
                  attached by one edge. Roll it up or unroll it like a
                  windowshade and come up with some method to secure to
                  the other slot rail. Would still need bows to keep it
                  from sagging.

                  Rick.


                  > Paul
                  >
                  > > The long canvas of BW or the hatches of BW II do
                  > not seem
                  > convenient, and I'm trying to sketch alternatives
                  > that could be used
                  > either under way, or at anchor
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Paul
                  Thanks for the link. He says: I m going to draw a narrower slot in future designs and go back to showing the plywood slot covers. Agreed. I have a Dovekie
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 2, 2004
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                    Thanks for the link. He says:

                    "I'm going to draw a narrower slot in future designs and go back to
                    showing the plywood slot covers."

                    Agreed. I have a Dovekie and am still wanting to get around to making
                    hard hatches. I am considering a BW1 and would like to add some kind
                    of flip over hatches as well. In rough weather, or winter storage
                    they would be much preferred over canvas. I'm also wondering what
                    would happen if it did indeed get knocked completely over. Doesn't
                    look pretty turned upside down.

                    Paul

                    > There is more in Michalak's latest newsletter, at:
                    >
                    > http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/#Contents
                    >
                    > Howard
                  • Roger Derby
                    That sounds like a good solution. Any chance of some pictures? Roger (It s early in the morning and I m having trouble picturing T s with the tops cut off. )
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 2, 2004
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                      That sounds like a good solution. Any chance of some pictures?

                      Roger (It's early in the morning and I'm having trouble picturing "T's with
                      the tops cut off.")
                      derbyrm@...
                      http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/default.htm

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Rick Bedard" <sctree@...>

                      > Hard hatches are big, heavy, hard to stow, hard to
                      > seal. If sliders they stick or leak, if hinged they
                      > can pinch and when opened are in the way...
                      >
                      > I built and sail a Michalak "Birdwatcher" type with a
                      > 24" x 8' slot and have a homemade cover made out of
                      > white plactic tarp that has held up well for two
                      > years. It's easy to fit or remove and even works under
                      > sail in moderate rain if you stuff an old towel around
                      > the mast where the cover has to be bunched up when the
                      > mast is up. A more talented person could cut and fit
                      > the tarp around the mast with a flap to cover the hole
                      > when the mast is down...
                      >
                      > Out of 1/2" pvc pipe, T's with the tops cut off, and
                      > 45 degree elbows I made four bows that pinch fit the
                      > slot span and hold the tarp a few inches above the
                      > slot rails. Light line runs from the tarp edges out to
                      > the outer edge of the cabintop and back under the tarp
                      > and inside the rails (so they can be pulled snug and
                      > secured while inside the cabin). Has never leaked at
                      > anchor or in my backyard, yet air move in and out in
                      > the gap between the cabintop and tarp.
                      >
                      > Someone else suggested a pole or rod running fore and
                      > aft on the outside of one slot rail with canvas
                      > attached by one edge. Roll it up or unroll it like a
                      > windowshade and come up with some method to secure to
                      > the other slot rail. Would still need bows to keep it
                      > from sagging.
                      >
                      > Rick.
                    • Bob Larkin
                      Thanks to Paul, Howard and Rick for the helpful comments on covering the Birdwatcher slot. I had not seen the Michalak articles, and these have now also been
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
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                        Thanks to Paul, Howard and Rick for the helpful comments on covering the
                        Birdwatcher slot. I had not seen the Michalak articles, and these have now
                        also been contemplated!

                        I am inclined to consider this slot-cover question experimental and wait
                        until I have a boat to work with. When anchored, the problem is simple,
                        and a boom tent, covering at least the center compartment would provide
                        standing height and dryness. But, under way it gets interesting. I'll
                        start by having the ability to cover the forward compartment with a hard
                        hatch. Maybe the aft area, also. Then get out the scrap plastic tarps
                        and experiment. Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
                        poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
                        approaching. Hmmm....

                        Thanks again,
                        Bob
                      • Rick Bedard
                        You re missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so excellent and all
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
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                          You're missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so excellent and all around that there is no need to poke your head out.

                          Rick

                          Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                          Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
                          poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
                          approaching. Hmmm....

                          Thanks again,
                          Bob





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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bob Larkin
                          Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding deadhead logs
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
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                            Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the
                            original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding
                            deadhead logs (missed a few, by feet, in the past), crab floats, kelp, gill
                            nets and the like. My habit is to watch a lot for this stuff! If I can't
                            do it easily, this becomes a concern.

                            I bet the right arrangement of covers and hatches will allow
                            this?? Without letting too much water inside.

                            Bob

                            At 12:50 PM 11/4/2004, you wrote:

                            > From: Rick Bedard <sctree@...>
                            >Subject: Re: Re: Birdwatcher Info
                            >
                            >You're missing a major point of Birdwatcher and Birdwatcher type (like my
                            >Michalak JB Jr) boats.... The view looking out of the cabin is so
                            >excellent and all around that there is no need to poke your head out.
                            >
                            >Rick
                            >
                            >Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                            > Somehow, out of all this, there must be a way to easily
                            >poke a head and binoculars out to get a decent view of whatever is
                            >approaching. Hmmm....
                            >
                            >Thanks again,
                            >Bob
                          • Rick Bedard
                            Bob, Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You re welcome to try mine out if you re within reach of central coast California.. The view is really
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 4, 2004
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                              Bob,

                              Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You're welcome to try mine out if you're within reach of central coast California.. The view is really excellent. Not sure how much you would gain sticking your head out. Sorta like poking your head out of your car window in a rainstorm, what would you be gaining in visibility? OK, no windshield wipers on a boat like this... Hmmm? Well, Idunno....

                              Sounds like you venture out in weather that I would stay at anchor... The "rain" that I've sailed my JB Jr in most of you folks would laugh at.... you probably would use words like "drizzle" or "mist" or, or, "You mean those couple of raindrops?" ... I have sheltered inside, under my tarp slotcover, nice and dry, during a couple "several hour long rainy periods, and once, at anchor, during an all night downpour...

                              Back to your problem. If you must get your head out in a Michalak JB Jr on a rainy day, it's easy enough to take out the aft companionway dropboard (not really a board, it's a simple clear acrylic sheet) and sit very comfortably and securely, (in raingear), on the aft deck with your legs and feet inside the cabin. The tarp slotcover will still cover all the top, so the biggest leak would be what runs down your raingear. I guess a couple towels would be good for a while... A little puddle goes a long way in creating havoc in a flat bottomed boat....

                              Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher

                              Oh, and the logs and floats and stuff... Very light weight, flat bottomed, rockered, very shoal draft, kick-up leeboard and rudder, armored bottom (xynole-graphite)... I'd just run over that stuff... Or maybe stay at anchor.....

                              Rick

                              Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                              Hi Rick - I agree for nice weather (pretty much), but going back to the
                              original assumptions, the rain is coming down, and the waves are hiding
                              deadhead logs (missed a few, by feet, in the past), crab floats, kelp, gill
                              nets and the like. My habit is to watch a lot for this stuff! If I can't
                              do it easily, this becomes a concern.

                              I bet the right arrangement of covers and hatches will allow
                              this?? Without letting too much water inside.

                              Bob



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Bruce Hallman
                              ... bottomed boat.... ... The new Birdwatcher design has a raised floor, with a gutter along the edges to catch runoff, spilt beer, etc..
                              Message 14 of 16 , Nov 5, 2004
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                                >... A little puddle goes a long way in creating havoc in a flat
                                bottomed boat....
                                >
                                > Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher
                                > Rick

                                The new Birdwatcher design has a raised floor, with a 'gutter' along the
                                edges to catch runoff, spilt beer, etc..
                              • Bob Larkin
                                Rick, I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to experience
                                Message 15 of 16 , Nov 7, 2004
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                                  Rick,

                                  I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get
                                  back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to
                                  experience the Jewbox Jr. I have not been on (or seen) any of the BW types,
                                  and it would be a good thing to do. Realisically, however, it is a bit more
                                  of a trip than could happen soon. I may call on you, if an opportunity to
                                  get down your way should arise.

                                  Also, I didn't mean to sound like I only sail in the rain!! We even attempt
                                  to avoid it. Never the less, it has happened quite a bit. We really like
                                  to go to Puget Sound/San Juans or to the lower Columbia R. For various
                                  reasons, including crowd reduction, this most often happens in September or
                                  October. Rain and wind seem to be part of this, sometimes. The wind part
                                  can be great!

                                  Getting back to the boat, right after I got the BW-2 plans, I built a 16:1
                                  model. It is open on one side, so I can peer forward from the aft
                                  compartment. I don't think this view is nearly as good as that of as JB
                                  Jr. BW-2 (and BW) has you looking through 10 feet of boat, a frame or two,
                                  and then the Lexan is at an angle on the sides. The good view is through
                                  the slot, at least if the jib is not in the way. I think the JB avoids
                                  that obstruction, as does the very original BW. It beats not having the
                                  windows, but it there is stuff in the way.

                                  I found all the comments on hatches, including Bjorn Harbo's for the WDJ to
                                  be very useful. I am going to experiment with hard covers for the forward
                                  compartment and then decide what to do. I think the decision has been made
                                  to proceed with BW-2! I can't start quite yet, as I have about a month's
                                  more work on a spinning wheel project, plus a couple of other little
                                  ones. The real decision is ordering some wood!

                                  This all replaces a Catalina 22 , making the trailering and setup a lot
                                  easier, allowing thinner water, while still allowing basic "camping." It
                                  also lets me build another boat :-)

                                  Thanks again to all for the comments.

                                  Bob

                                  At 12:43 PM 11/5/2004, Rick Bedard wrote:

                                  >Bob,
                                  >
                                  >Have you been in a Birdwatcher or Birdwatcher type? You're welcome to try
                                  >mine out if you're within reach of central coast California.. The view is
                                  >really excellent. Not sure how much you would gain sticking your head out.
                                  >Sorta like poking your head out of your car window in a rainstorm, what
                                  >would you be gaining in visibility? OK, no windshield wipers on a boat
                                  >like this.. Hmmm? Well, Idunno....
                                  >
                                  >Sounds like you venture out in weather that I would stay at anchor... The
                                  >"rain" that I've sailed my JB Jr in most of you folks would laugh at....
                                  >you probably would use words like "drizzle" or "mist" or, or, "You mean
                                  >those couple of raindrops?" ... I have sheltered inside, under my tarp
                                  >slotcover, nice and dry, during a couple "several hour long rainy periods,
                                  >and once, at anchor, during an all night downpour...
                                  >
                                  >Back to your problem. If you must get your head out in a Michalak JB Jr on
                                  >a rainy day, it's easy enough to take out the aft companionway dropboard
                                  >(not really a board, it's a simple clear acrylic sheet) and sit very
                                  >comfortably and securely, (in raingear), on the aft deck with your legs
                                  >and feet inside the cabin. The tarp slotcover will still cover all the
                                  >top, so the biggest leak would be what runs down your raingear. I guess a
                                  >couple towels would be good for a while... A little puddle goes a long way
                                  >in creating havoc in a flat bottomed boat....
                                  >
                                  > Not sure how this would work on a Bolger Birdwatcher
                                  >
                                  >Oh, and the logs and floats and stuff... Very light weight, flat bottomed,
                                  >rockered, very shoal draft, kick-up leeboard and rudder, armored bottom
                                  >(xynole-graphite)... I'd just run over that stuff... Or maybe stay at
                                  >anchor....
                                  >
                                  >Rick
                                • Rick Bedard
                                  I d bet the view will be better than you think.. The analogy with your model would be looking out through the windows of a plastic model car compared to
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Nov 7, 2004
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                                    I'd bet the view will be better than you think.. The analogy with your model would be looking out through the windows of a plastic model car compared to sitting in a real life car of the same make... It's different in real life scale...

                                    Hard hatches... What Bolger does with Jochems schooner looks sorta like a bifold door. The perimeter overhangs the slot framing and the mid doors gap is waterproofed by a foam strip that gets pinched when the hatch is closed. The Jochem's slot is divided into several, (I think 3) sections with decking between. If you did that on Birdwatcher you'd lose the ability to stroll standing-up from one end of the cabin to the other...Plus you'll need to have the cabintop space that the door folds over on clear.

                                    Happy boatbuilding...
                                    Rick


                                    Bob Larkin <boblark@...> wrote:
                                    Rick,

                                    I have been distracted from boats for a couple of days, but wanted to get
                                    back with a couple of thoughts. First, many thanks for the offer to
                                    experience the Jewbox Jr. I have not been on (or seen) any of the BW types,
                                    and it would be a good thing to do. Realisically, however, it is a bit more
                                    of a trip than could happen soon. I may call on you, if an opportunity to
                                    get down your way should arise.

                                    Also, I didn't mean to sound like I only sail in the rain!! We even attempt
                                    to avoid it. Never the less, it has happened quite a bit. We really like
                                    to go to Puget Sound/San Juans or to the lower Columbia R. For various
                                    reasons, including crowd reduction, this most often happens in September or
                                    October. Rain and wind seem to be part of this, sometimes. The wind part
                                    can be great!

                                    Getting back to the boat, right after I got the BW-2 plans, I built a 16:1
                                    model. It is open on one side, so I can peer forward from the aft
                                    compartment. I don't think this view is nearly as good as that of as JB
                                    Jr. BW-2 (and BW) has you looking through 10 feet of boat, a frame or two,
                                    and then the Lexan is at an angle on the sides. The good view is through
                                    the slot, at least if the jib is not in the way. I think the JB avoids
                                    that obstruction, as does the very original BW. It beats not having the
                                    windows, but it there is stuff in the way.

                                    I found all the comments on hatches, including Bjorn Harbo's for the WDJ to
                                    be very useful. I am going to experiment with hard covers for the forward
                                    compartment and then decide what to do. I think the decision has been made
                                    to proceed with BW-2! I can't start quite yet, as I have about a month's
                                    more work on a spinning wheel project, plus a couple of other little
                                    ones. The real decision is ordering some wood!

                                    This all replaces a Catalina 22 , making the trailering and setup a lot
                                    easier, allowing thinner water, while still allowing basic "camping." It
                                    also lets me build another boat :-)

                                    Thanks again to all for the comments.

                                    Bob



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