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Re: bolger's dagger boards

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  • Jason Stancil
    ... you ... ****************** The dagger board on the PB OSTAR 30 is steel with a 1000lbs of lead. I can only wonder how one lifts that monster without a 10
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
      > >> 125 lb daggerboard
      > > Phil B. designed a special frame to lift the board, after the
      > > prototype had been built. Since it's between the two cockpits
      you
      > > don't notice it being in the way. It worked very well.
      > >
      > > Reed
      >
      > Is there a picture or drawing of this frame anywhere?
      ******************
      The dagger board on the PB OSTAR 30 is steel with a 1000lbs of lead.
      I can only wonder how one lifts that monster without a 10 to one z
      drag or a windlass doing double duty on board.....what is the I60
      using to pull it swingkeel up?
      Jason
    • Paul W. Esterle
      Can t speak to the problems with a PCB daggerboard but I have owned and sailed a 20 Matilda for 15 years. It has a 3/8 steel plate daggerboard with a 300 lb.
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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        Can't speak to the problems with a PCB daggerboard but I have owned and
        sailed a 20' Matilda for 15 years. It has a 3/8" steel plate daggerboard
        with a 300 lb. lead bulb on the bottom. A multipart tackle is mounted on the
        inside of the trunk and the top of the daggerboard. The cable leads to a
        winch mounted on the outside of the rear cabin bulkhead. It has worked very
        well with minimum fuss (except for the time I lost control of the winch and
        it lowered itself all the way to the safety stop). I have grounded with no
        problems, the boat just stopped REAL quick!

        Paul Esterle
        Freelance Boating Writer
        Member, Boating Writers International
        Published in Small Craft Advisor, SAIL,
        Living Aboard, Boatbuilder, Good Old
        Boat, Blue Water Sailing, Nor'easter
        pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
        www.smallcraftadvisor.com
        www.captnpauley.com
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... I bet an A-frame hoist could also solve the handling problem of the ballasted lee boards on Centenial II, making that boat a much more desirable choice
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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          > Susan
          > According to Phil, the A-frame for lifting the daggerboard was
          > designed by Tony Groves, the original builder, not Phil.

          I bet an "A-frame hoist" could also solve the handling problem of
          the ballasted lee boards on Centenial II, making that boat a much
          more desirable choice for many. "...the most economical boat
          that could be called fit to keep the sea in bad weather."
          From 11 sheets of 3/8" plywood.
        • Susan Davis
          ... At the moment, nothing -- the I60 is still sitting on Phil and Suzanne s drawing boards. :-) The current draft of the plans calls for a 12 volt truck
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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            > what is the I60 using to pull it swingkeel up?

            At the moment, nothing -- the I60 is still sitting on Phil and
            Suzanne's drawing boards. :-)

            The current draft of the plans calls for a 12 volt truck winch,
            attached to the swing arm of the keel.

            --
            Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
          • David Ryan
            A 9000lbs capacity truck winch should do the trick. Talked to truck supply salesman and he talked me out of the $1200 model saying the $499 model is simply
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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              A 9000lbs capacity truck winch should do the trick. Talked to truck
              supply salesman and he talked me out of the $1200 model saying the $499
              model is simply better.

              He also said he'd give me a deal on two ;-)

              -David



              On Friday, October 1, 2004, at 11:50 AM, Susan Davis wrote:

              >
              >> what is the I60 using to pull it swingkeel up?
              >
              > At the moment, nothing -- the I60 is still sitting on Phil and
              > Suzanne's drawing boards. :-)
              >
              > The current draft of the plans calls for a 12 volt truck winch,
              > attached to the swing arm of the keel.
              >
              > --
              > Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
              > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
              > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
              > Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
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            • Susan Davis
              ... You re on. :-)
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
                > A 9000lbs capacity truck winch should do the trick. Talked to truck
                > supply salesman and he talked me out of the $1200 model saying the
                > $499 model is simply better.
                >
                > He also said he'd give me a deal on two ;-)

                You're on. :-)
              • Howard Stephenson
                Alough this may not be quite the situation with your I60, Susan, you can take comfort from something PCB said about a design that he hadn t yet been able to
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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                  Alough this may not be quite the situation with your I60, Susan, you
                  can take comfort from something PCB said about a design that he
                  hadn't yet been able to complete to the client's satisfaction: "She
                  won't depreciate at her time of life".

                  Howard

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
                  > > what is the I60 using to pull it swingkeel up?
                  >
                  > At the moment, nothing -- the I60 is still sitting on Phil and
                  > Suzanne's drawing boards. :-)
                • Nels
                  ... Was that before or after STORM PETREL? http://www.belljar.net/bolgersp.htm I don t think that there are many designs around with that capability that can
                  Message 8 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                    >> I bet an "A-frame hoist" could also solve the handling problem of
                    > the ballasted lee boards on Centenial II, making that boat a much
                    > more desirable choice for many. "...the most economical boat
                    > that could be called fit to keep the sea in bad weather."
                    > From 11 sheets of 3/8" plywood.

                    Was that before or after STORM PETREL?

                    http://www.belljar.net/bolgersp.htm

                    "I don't think that there are many designs around with that
                    capability that can be built complete from eight 3/8" x 4' x 8'
                    sheets of plywood, and as little else as this one."

                    Also I would really love to see a real life "THREE-METER MULTIHULL"
                    Page 31 BWAOM. Beautiful little boat but for the twin daggerboards.

                    Cheers, Nels
                  • Nels
                    ... and ... daggerboard ... mounted on the ... to a ... worked very ... winch and ... with no ... Hard for me to visualize...Does the daggerboard raise inside
                    Message 9 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...>
                      wrote:
                      > Can't speak to the problems with a PCB daggerboard but I have owned
                      and
                      > sailed a 20' Matilda for 15 years. It has a 3/8" steel plate
                      daggerboard
                      > with a 300 lb. lead bulb on the bottom. A multipart tackle is
                      mounted on the
                      > inside of the trunk and the top of the daggerboard. The cable leads
                      to a
                      > winch mounted on the outside of the rear cabin bulkhead. It has
                      worked very
                      > well with minimum fuss (except for the time I lost control of the
                      winch and
                      > it lowered itself all the way to the safety stop). I have grounded
                      with no
                      > problems, the boat just stopped REAL quick!
                      >

                      Hard for me to visualize...Does the daggerboard raise inside the
                      cabin or out? How deep is the board? I thought Matilda's had fixed
                      keels. Any photos?

                      Cheers, Nels
                    • Bruce Hallman
                      ... Storm Petrel #337 is essentially a motor sailer, seaworthy and coastal. Centenenial II #332 was designed to be the minimum seaworthy boat, [in therory at
                      Message 10 of 19 , Oct 1, 2004
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                        > Was [Centeniall II] before or after STORM PETREL?

                        Storm Petrel #337 is essentially a motor sailer, seaworthy and coastal.

                        Centenenial II #332 was designed to be the minimum seaworthy
                        boat, [in therory at least], capable to cross the Atlantic
                        in reasonable safety (you wouldn't catch me doing it). Oar auxillary.

                        http://hallman.org/bolger/Centenial2/

                        I bet they were both designed within a month or two of each other.
                      • John B. Trussell
                        I ve had daggerboards on two Windmills and a Scooner. Both boats had boards of unballasted plywood, and raising/lowering them did not take any great effort.
                        Message 11 of 19 , Oct 2, 2004
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                          I've had daggerboards on two Windmills and a Scooner. Both boats had boards of unballasted plywood, and raising/lowering them did not take any great effort.

                          Advantages: the dagger board case is shorter than a centerboard case. It is, therefore, easier to make watertight. The slot is shorter with a dagger board than with a centerboard and a db case is less likely to spit water. Being shorter, a db case takes up less room inside the boat than a cb case. Db cases are often higher (going all the way to the deck line) than cb cases, and this really helps in trying to bail a totally swamped boat (where a cb case will let water in as fast as you bail).

                          Disadvantages: When you run aground, either the boat stops really fast and/or you bust the board or possibly spring the db case. Daggerboards stick up above the deck line when raised by the same amount they stick down below the bottom when lowered. This is not a problem with a schooner, but an unexpected jibe with the db up on a sloop rigged boat can be real exciting. And wet. But the boat is easier to bail out afterwords:>)

                          When I was contemplating His and Hers Schooners, I thought it might be possible to build teeth into the edge of the daggerboard and use a screw jack to raise and lower it. So long as the project is in a fantasizing stage, it seems like a workable solution...

                          John T
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Bruce Hallman
                          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 4:40 PM
                          Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: bolger's dagger boards


                          > Was [Centeniall II] before or after STORM PETREL?

                          Storm Petrel #337 is essentially a motor sailer, seaworthy and coastal.

                          Centenenial II #332 was designed to be the minimum seaworthy
                          boat, [in therory at least], capable to cross the Atlantic
                          in reasonable safety (you wouldn't catch me doing it). Oar auxillary.

                          http://hallman.org/bolger/Centenial2/

                          I bet they were both designed within a month or two of each other.


                          Bolger rules!!!
                          - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                          - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                          - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                          - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                          - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


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