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Re: Japanese Beach Cruiser

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  • robt_l_hazard
    ... Beach ... I daydream of spending a week in this boat nosing around the Deer Isle - Isle au Haut region of the Maine coast. But I wonder if she might be
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 2, 2004
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      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
      > > I am posting to ask whether anyone here has built the Japanese
      Beach
      > > Cruiser
      > > Anyone ever built her?
      >
      > About a dozen times in my mind's eye.
      >
      > What a great boat! Please build one and
      > take lots of photos to share!

      I daydream of spending a week in this boat nosing around the Deer
      Isle - Isle au Haut region of the Maine coast. But I wonder if she
      might be just a bit _too_ small, and possibly a bit tender under
      sail. I also am curious about how her leeboards would interact with
      the ubiquitous lobster buoys there.

      So I thought I might try to find someone who has built and sailed one
      before I invest in a set of plans.
    • Richard Johnson
      One of this design has been built! I saw it at Grand Barrachois in New Brunswick. Unfortunately, I did not get the owner s name, nor photos of the boat. I have
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 7, 2004
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        One of this design has been built! I saw it at Grand
        Barrachois in New Brunswick. Unfortunately, I did not
        get the owner's name, nor photos of the boat. I have
        been toying with the idea of building this little
        vessel to explore the thin waters around the coast of
        Nova Scotia (if this dream reaches fruition, photos
        will be forthcoming). Personally, I would not be
        concerned at all about tangling with the buoys used on
        lobster pots. In the event of entanglement, which for
        the most part I believe could easily be avoided,
        simply change tack, lift the leeboad and disengage.

        According to Bolger's description of the boat, he
        designed it so that it would be stiffer than the
        average sailboat of this size. He mentioned that it
        would not be necessary to hike out over the rail to
        sail her. I would guess that the statement is made
        with the proviso that an appropriate amount of sail is
        shown relative to wind force.

        While the design appeals to me, I would find it hard
        to resist one or two modifications. First I would rig
        the main with a lug sail rather than a sprit. The
        second change I'm not so sure of . . . the bilge seems
        a mite slack at the stern so I am tempted to push the
        second chine down and out a bit to give a bit more
        bearing as she heeled. My reservation about this
        change is that the more robust bilge at the stern
        might cause the rudder to roll up and out of the water
        somewhat, thereby reducing its power to control the
        boat while heeled.

        I've had several years experience sailing a Paceship
        17 day sailer which has a typical modern sloop rig
        with main and jib. In heavy winds, it does not lend
        itself well to single handing. I've had two capsizes
        to atest to that difficulty. To my eye, the Japanese
        Beach Cruiser is ideal. The small mizzen will tend to
        make the boat weather vane into the wind in a gust,
        assuming one hands the main sheet in such conditions.

        Barring unforseen circumstances, I am hoping next
        summer will see me begin construction of my own
        Japanese Beach Cruiser.

        --- robt_l_hazard <robt_l_hazard@...> wrote:

        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman
        > <bruce@h...> wrote:
        > > > I am posting to ask whether anyone here has
        > built the Japanese
        > Beach
        > > > Cruiser
        > > > Anyone ever built her?
        > >
        > > About a dozen times in my mind's eye.
        > >
        > > What a great boat! Please build one and
        > > take lots of photos to share!
        >
        > I daydream of spending a week in this boat nosing
        > around the Deer
        > Isle - Isle au Haut region of the Maine coast. But I
        > wonder if she
        > might be just a bit _too_ small, and possibly a bit
        > tender under
        > sail. I also am curious about how her leeboards
        > would interact with
        > the ubiquitous lobster buoys there.
        >
        > So I thought I might try to find someone who has
        > built and sailed one
        > before I invest in a set of plans.
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • pvanderwaart
        ... Bolger has written about this in several places including the Spartina chapter of BWAOM. There is a trade-off in stern design. A wide stern with a lot of
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 7, 2004
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          > ...the bilge seems
          > a mite slack at the stern so I am tempted to push the
          > second chine down and out a bit to give a bit more
          > bearing as she heeled.

          Bolger has written about this in several places including the
          Spartina chapter of BWAOM. There is a trade-off in stern design. A
          wide stern with a lot of bearing gives more power to carry sail and
          a higher top speed, but requires that the live ballast keeps the
          boat from heeling. If the boat heels and the bow goes down, the
          sailing and handling suffer greatly. I would trust PCB. Besides, you
          are not likely to change it enough to make a really big difference.

          Down around where I am, I would be surprised if you capsized a
          Paceship 17 once in a lifetime, though you probably could have
          managed it yesterday since we had 20 kt winds and 3 1/2 ft seas (a
          few 5' 'rogue waves' :)). It does suggest that you should have a rig
          that is easy to reef and certainly the sprit does not shine in that
          department. Your change to a lug could be an improvement. Chances
          are that PCB used the sprit because the spars can be a little
          shorter.

          Peter
        • Bruce Hallman
          I would be very reluctant to make changes to Japanese Beach Cruiser, unless I was willing to accept that the changes would be likely for the worse! Second
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 7, 2004
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            I would be very reluctant to make changes to
            Japanese Beach Cruiser, unless I was willing to
            accept that the changes would be likely for the
            worse! Second guessing Phil Bolger is usually
            a bad bet.

            Bolger wrote: "This craft would make a good ship's
            boat with lifeboat capabilities."

            Neither the chapter in Boats With an Open Mind,
            nor the writeup in Small Boat Journal #68 illustrate
            the 'thatched' shelter but I would be curious what he
            had in mind of this.

            The use of a vang to the peak of the sprit is new to me.

            Anybody care to estimate the weight of the
            completed boat?
          • Jason Stancil
            ... Heheh. ;) Jason, glutin for punishment
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 7, 2004
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
              > I would be very reluctant to make changes to
              > Japanese Beach Cruiser, unless I was willing to
              > accept that the changes would be likely for the
              > worse! Second guessing Phil Bolger is usually
              > a bad bet.


              Heheh. ;)

              Jason, glutin for punishment
            • Nels
              ... I would certainly try to track down the owner if possible. For example - Any potential challenges if one wants to have a motor on it? Sure be great to see
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 7, 2004
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Richard Johnson
                <rishar_johnson2001@y...> wrote:
                > One of this design has been built!

                I would certainly try to track down the owner if possible. For
                example - Any potential challenges if one wants to have a motor on it?

                Sure be great to see some photos of one and compare to say an OLDSHOE.

                Cheers, Nels
              • pvanderwaart
                ... Well, the plans are marked for 355Kg Displacement. Say 780 lbs. Subtracting 400 lbs for two crew and gear gives 380 lbs. Subjectively, that seems just a
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 7, 2004
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                  > Anybody care to estimate the weight of the
                  > completed boat?

                  Well, the plans are marked for 355Kg Displacement. Say 780 lbs.
                  Subtracting 400 lbs for two crew and gear gives 380 lbs.
                  Subjectively, that seems just a bit high. I would have guess the bare
                  hull at less than 300.

                  Bolger does allow quite a bit for gear and crew in a boat like this.

                  This illustrates some of his thinkig about the light quarters. This
                  boat is going to be two heavy to get up and plane, so it makes sense
                  to make it easy to handle since the loss of speed is minimal.

                  Peter
                • Richard Johnson
                  Re the Paceship 17 capsize: After years of experience I came to realize that the boat was either (a) poorly designed or (b) not built to the designer s
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 13, 2004
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                    Re the Paceship 17 capsize:

                    After years of experience I came to realize that the
                    boat was either (a) poorly designed or (b) not built
                    to the designer's specifications particularly as to
                    the placement of the centerboard. When I bought the
                    boat I thought because I was purchasing from a
                    reputable manufacturer (Paceship, Mahone Bay, NS -
                    since defunct) and that the design came from a
                    reputsble design firm (C & C - still in business) that
                    I would not need the help of an experienced sailor
                    friend to take it for sea trials. Alas, such was not
                    the case. I suspect that Paceship did not built to
                    specification.

                    The boat was delivered with a rudder on which the kick
                    up portion was fabricated from steel plate. As many
                    are no doubt aware, this can cause lee helm on its
                    own. After the first year of sailing I realized that
                    there might be a problem so built new rudder of
                    plywood and covered it with glass cloth and resin. The
                    new rudder seemed to overcome the handling sensitivity
                    I felt with the metal rudder but still it did not
                    solve the problem. In my third sailing season, the
                    boat went over in a heavy gust despite having a three
                    foot reef tied in, letting go the jib and pushing the
                    helm to leeward.

                    At the time I thought the incident was a fluke. A
                    second capsize occurred in the fifth season at which
                    time I figured the mast should be raked aft to
                    compensate. This did help but still did not resolve
                    the problem. By the sixth season I believe the
                    inevitable restructuring was the only cure. I tore the
                    deck off the hull, cut out the centerboard and
                    replaced it with a dagger board. Unfortunately, its a
                    mite too far forward, so now I have lots of weather
                    helm - better than lee helm anyway. Now I figure I'll
                    build a mast two feet taller and shorten the boom, fit
                    a new mainsail with a shorter foot and longer luff to
                    reduce the weather helm. As well I'll have the sail
                    flattened slightly and bring the draft forward a bit
                    which should also help.

                    Some time over the last decade I've come into contact
                    with two other owners of Paceship 17s. Both experience
                    handling problems. One gent said he only sailed on
                    days when the wind was not too strong and the other
                    said that he was "very careful" when he was sailing in
                    heavier winds.

                    Thanks to all for your comments re changing the bilge
                    at the stern. As I said, I had some reservations about
                    making such a change and I feel comfortable with the
                    consensus that that aspect should not be tampered
                    with.

                    --- pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:

                    > > ...the bilge seems
                    > > a mite slack at the stern so I am tempted to push
                    > the
                    > > second chine down and out a bit to give a bit more
                    > > bearing as she heeled.
                    >
                    > Bolger has written about this in several places
                    > including the
                    > Spartina chapter of BWAOM. There is a trade-off in
                    > stern design. A
                    > wide stern with a lot of bearing gives more power to
                    > carry sail and
                    > a higher top speed, but requires that the live
                    > ballast keeps the
                    > boat from heeling. If the boat heels and the bow
                    > goes down, the
                    > sailing and handling suffer greatly. I would trust
                    > PCB. Besides, you
                    > are not likely to change it enough to make a really
                    > big difference.
                    >
                    > Down around where I am, I would be surprised if you
                    > capsized a
                    > Paceship 17 once in a lifetime, though you probably
                    > could have
                    > managed it yesterday since we had 20 kt winds and 3
                    > 1/2 ft seas (a
                    > few 5' 'rogue waves' :)). It does suggest that you
                    > should have a rig
                    > that is easy to reef and certainly the sprit does
                    > not shine in that
                    > department. Your change to a lug could be an
                    > improvement. Chances
                    > are that PCB used the sprit because the spars can be
                    > a little
                    > shorter.
                    >
                    > Peter
                    >
                    >
                    >





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