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Re: New Design - Wandervogel

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  • pvanderwaart
    Thanks for sharing the news about the new design and the pictures of the model. A couple of unconnected thoughts: 1) Given the embarassment of the Martha Jane
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1, 2004
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      Thanks for sharing the news about the new design and the pictures of
      the model. A couple of unconnected thoughts:

      1) Given the embarassment of the Martha Jane stability issue, I bet
      PB&F is more than happy to have the chance to get a replacement
      design on the books. MJ's have worked out well for a lot of people,
      but the fully revised version (which they are in the position of
      having to recommend) is a lot more work than the original. "Doing it
      right from the start", i.e. a fresh design, probably gets the
      advantages with less cost and effort. This might explain why they
      would produce "their" version as well as "your" version.

      2) I've never seen the vang arrangement before. Pretty neat, though
      it complicates the the boom construction. Does PB&F cite a precedent
      or claim it as original? Possibly an independent re-invention. It's
      real difficult to be completely novel.

      3) The complicated and unusual-looking mizzen tabernacle supports
      will look appropriately exotic with the Chinese rig. I think it would
      look odd with the cleaner sharpie rig, a la Skillygallee. Bolger is
      deep into tabernacles these days, and come seem very complicated and
      intrusive. For example, the slightly angled ones on the Jochems. On
      the St. Valerie, the boom rests awkwardly (it seems to me) on the
      tabernacle rather than the mast.

      4) Looks like a great boat.

      Peter
    • Bruce Hallman
      ... This is exciting, this design falls right into the sweet spot for backyard built trailerable camp cruisers.
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1, 2004
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        oarmandt <oarmand@...> wrote:
        > Wandervogel
        > I have built a model from the preliminary drawing.

        This is exciting, this design falls right into
        the 'sweet spot' for backyard built trailerable
        camp cruisers.

        http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger3/lst?&.dir=/Wandervogel

        points to the folder with the photos.
      • Robert Jennings
        I really like the idea of a small cockpit in a Birdwatcher II type boat. What have you gained and lost with the Wandervogel compared to the Birdwatcher II? I
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 1, 2004
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          I really like the idea of a small cockpit in a Birdwatcher II type
          boat. What have you gained and lost with the Wandervogel compared to
          the Birdwatcher II? I ask because I'm close to buying the BW II plans
          but will wait if the Wandervogel has some qualities that are better
          for my needs than the BW II. It sounds like Bolger just keeps
          designing better boats.



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
          Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 08:20:35 -0800
          Subject: Re: [bolger] New Design - Wandervogel
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com

          oarmandt <oarmand@...> wrote:
          > Wandervogel
          > I have built a model from the preliminary drawing.

          This is exciting, this design falls right into
          the 'sweet spot' for backyard built trailerable
          camp cruisers.

          http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger3/lst?&.dir=/Wandervogel

          points to the folder with the photos.




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        • oarmandt
          I looked seriously at the Birdwatcher a year ago, and Birdwatcher II when the last WoodenBoat came out. I concluded that Birdwatcher was smaller than my wife
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 1, 2004
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            I looked seriously at the Birdwatcher a year ago, and Birdwatcher II
            when the last WoodenBoat came out. I concluded that Birdwatcher was
            smaller than my wife and I would want to spend a week or even a
            weekend in. Strange, because BW and Wandervogel are within about 3"
            of each other in overall length. BW loses a lot of volume being
            double-ended. It is also narrower of beam. BW's cabin is somewhat
            spoiled by the centerboard case. If you like sitting on the floor
            (maybe a wet floor if the CB case spits), go with the BW. The WV will
            have proper chair-height seats, both cabin and cockpit.

            The cockpit degrades the birdwatcher concept somewhat in that it
            compromises righting ability from a knock-down. On the model, at 90
            degree knock-down attitude, the front edge of the cockpit rail is just
            going under. The buoyancy of the house prevents much water getting in
            the cockpit. But really, how often will it get knocked 90 degrees?

            Obviously, WV gives up lots to BW in simplicity of the sailing rig.
            Once the rig is up, the Chinese gaffer should be easier to reef, if it
            lives up to the advanced billing.

            WV will be heavier, more expensive, and more complicated to build.

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jennings <rjennings@g...> wrote:
            > I really like the idea of a small cockpit in a Birdwatcher II type
            > boat. What have you gained and lost with the Wandervogel compared to
            > the Birdwatcher II? I ask because I'm close to buying the BW II plans
            > but will wait if the Wandervogel has some qualities that are better
            > for my needs than the BW II. It sounds like Bolger just keeps
            > designing better boats.
            >
            >
          • k_s_oneill
            ... precedent ... It s a balestron rig without a jib. One might consider making the boom long enought to later add a jib; actually flying a jib might help
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 2, 2004
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
              wrote:

              > 2) I've never seen the vang arrangement before. Pretty neat, though
              > it complicates the the boom construction. Does PB&F cite a
              precedent
              > or claim it as original? Possibly an independent re-invention. It's
              > real difficult to be completely novel.

              It's a balestron rig without a jib. One might consider making the
              boom long enought to later add a jib; actually flying a jib might
              help things out, and it might not. In "Beach Cruising and Coastal
              Camping" Ida Little said her Bolger-designed Dugog picked up a full
              knot in most conditions with the addition of a very small somewhat
              silly-looking jib. Certainly it seems to me if you're going to go to
              all the trouble to build the balestron boom you might as well put the
              jib on it; it will be no extra effort or extra sheets to handle when
              tacking, and the jib will balance the main some and actually lower
              sheet tension. And it would look cool.

              > 3) The complicated and unusual-looking mizzen tabernacle supports
              > will look appropriately exotic with the Chinese rig.

              I agree.

              > 4) Looks like a great boat.

              I agree with that too, though the angle of the fore cabin window is a
              bit odd to me. Overall, though, the whole thing is very jaunty and
              capable looking. The twin rudders and central outboard seem to me to
              be a very good arrangement.

              Kevin
            • Howard Stephenson
              I ve just realized the photo of the Birdwatcher-type boat that appears on the front page of Bolger3 was a model, not a full-size boat. See:
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 28, 2005
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                I've just realized the photo of the Birdwatcher-type boat that
                appears on the front page of Bolger3 was a model, not a full-size
                boat. See:

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/

                Anyone have any news on this design -- whether it was finished,
                whether construction was started etc. ?

                Howard


                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarmanD@c...> wrote:
                > I would like to let the Group in on a new design in the works at
                PB&F,
                > which should come off the board soon. It is an elaboration on the
                > Wandervogel cartoon that was rig number 101 in 103 Sailing Rigs. I
                > commissioned it about a year ago. I was looking for a comfortable,
                > trailerable, shoal-draft cruiser. The William D. Jochems design
                was
                > appealing, but ultimately, I decided it was more ambitious than I
                > wanted to build and tow. Wandervogel is a couple feet smaller at
                > 23?-9? x 6?-9? x 8?, or about the size of a Martha Jane.
              • oarmandt
                The model is mine. I commissioned the design after the cartoon 101 in 103 Sailing Rigs. The model was made from the preliminary drawing. Alas, the full
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 29, 2005
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                  The model is mine. I commissioned the design after the cartoon 101 in
                  103 Sailing Rigs. The model was made from the preliminary drawing.
                  Alas, the full design is in limbo, apparently behind several others in
                  PB&F's queue.

                  As with the recurring theme here lately, I have a "fill in" project.
                  Mine is a Birdwatcher. The second coat of paint is going on the hull,
                  so anticipation for the launch is building.

                  Doug

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
                  wrote:
                  > I've just realized the photo of the Birdwatcher-type boat that
                  > appears on the front page of Bolger3 was a model, not a full-size
                  > boat. See:
                  >
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/
                  >
                  > Anyone have any news on this design -- whether it was finished,
                  > whether construction was started etc. ?
                  >
                  > Howard
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarmanD@c...> wrote:
                  > > I would like to let the Group in on a new design in the works at
                  > PB&F,
                  > > which should come off the board soon. It is an elaboration on the
                  > > Wandervogel cartoon that was rig number 101 in 103 Sailing Rigs. I
                  > > commissioned it about a year ago. I was looking for a comfortable,
                  > > trailerable, shoal-draft cruiser. The William D. Jochems design
                  > was
                  > > appealing, but ultimately, I decided it was more ambitious than I
                  > > wanted to build and tow. Wandervogel is a couple feet smaller at
                  > > 23?-9? x 6?-9? x 8?, or about the size of a Martha Jane.
                • Howard Stephenson
                  Thanks. I was hoping my post would find the owner of the model. You ve done a good job with the photo, to make it look like a full-size boat. What a pity it s
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 29, 2005
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                    Thanks. I was hoping my post would find the owner of the model. You've
                    done a good job with the photo, to make it look like a full-size boat.

                    What a pity it's an unfinished design. I'm sure there'd be plenty of
                    people who'd be interested if it were finished.

                    Howard

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@v...> wrote:
                    > The model is mine. I commissioned the design after the cartoon 101
                    in
                    > 103 Sailing Rigs. The model was made from the preliminary drawing.
                    > Alas, the full design is in limbo, apparently behind several others
                    in
                    > PB&F's queue.
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