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New Design - Wandervogel

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  • oarmandt
    I would like to let the Group in on a new design in the works at PB&F, which should come off the board soon. It is an elaboration on the Wandervogel cartoon
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 31, 2004
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      I would like to let the Group in on a new design in the works at PB&F,
      which should come off the board soon. It is an elaboration on the
      Wandervogel cartoon that was rig number 101 in 103 Sailing Rigs. I
      commissioned it about a year ago. I was looking for a comfortable,
      trailerable, shoal-draft cruiser. The William D. Jochems design was
      appealing, but ultimately, I decided it was more ambitious than I
      wanted to build and tow. Wandervogel is a couple feet smaller at
      23?-9? x 6?-9? x 8?, or about the size of a Martha Jane. It has the
      Birdwatcher style cabin, but like Jochems, has a small cockpit for
      when the weather is too fine to stay inside. The rig is the Chinese
      Gaff. The cartoon in 103 Rigs was a cat, but it has since evolved to
      a cat-yawl. Once you have the sheet staff, why not a yawl?

      I intend the boat to be water-ballasted. PB&F are pushing the idea of
      metal plate armoring the bottom instead. I suspect that the final
      plans will include both options. The preliminary drawings had twin
      bilge boards with cases integrated into the settee backs, to satisfy
      those who are offended by the appearance of leeboards. I have asked
      for leeboards as I subscribe to the KISS principle and I suspect that
      the plans will show both options. To answer the demand for relief
      from sharpie hull noises in waves, Wandervogel will have a V-shaped
      bottom forward. It is typical sharpie flat aft.

      The rig includes the unique Chinese Gaff vang (a line from the mast
      head to the front end of the boom, which extends a couple feet forward
      of the mast.) The main area is 295 square feet and the mizzen is 67.
      (Compare 362 square feet available to the 247 on Martha Jane. If you
      would rather sail than listen to the motor, this design has the
      power.) The mizzen has gaff and battens and is shaped like the main.
      It is intended to sail with the first reef in the main, unless the
      breeze is very light, as per the CG rig description in 103 Rigs.
      There is a unique solution to the problem of how to fit rudder,
      tiller, outboard and mizzenmast on the transom. There are twin,
      shallow, endplate-type rudders on the outer edges of the transom. The
      outboard is on centerline. The mizzenmast is also on centerline, with
      the tabernacle tall enough to hold the butt of the mast above the
      outboard. The tabernacle is an A-frame to allow room to swing the
      centerline tiller, mounted just below the mizzenmast. The folded
      masts will fit within the boat length (if you include rudders in the
      length.)

      The cabin includes two 6?-8? long settees amidships. These are
      intended to convert to one queen-sized berth. There were no other
      cabin details on the preliminary drawing. The write-up talked about
      two pipe berths that could be temporarily rigged somewhere in the
      cabin, but I was not clear on the details.

      I have built a model from the preliminary drawing. I posted photos on
      Bolger3 in a file named Wandervogel. Having seen the model?s photos,
      PB&F have said they thought the cabin should extend further forward.
      The picture with sails up has the lower panel of the main cut off, to
      represent the first reef, which is 20% of the mains?l area. The
      figure at the helm in the model photos is a ?Skipper? doll, who would
      be 6?-2? tall at 1.5? = 1? scale.

      Doug
    • dbaldnz
      Exciting stuff Doug! No doubt it s a Bolger. And a great model, doll included. DonB ... PB&F, ... was ... the ... Chinese ... to ... idea of ... satisfy ...
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 31, 2004
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        Exciting stuff Doug! No doubt it's a Bolger.
        And a great model, doll included.
        DonB

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarmanD@c...> wrote:
        > I would like to let the Group in on a new design in the works at
        PB&F,
        > which should come off the board soon. It is an elaboration on the
        > Wandervogel cartoon that was rig number 101 in 103 Sailing Rigs. I
        > commissioned it about a year ago. I was looking for a comfortable,
        > trailerable, shoal-draft cruiser. The William D. Jochems design
        was
        > appealing, but ultimately, I decided it was more ambitious than I
        > wanted to build and tow. Wandervogel is a couple feet smaller at
        > 23?-9? x 6?-9? x 8?, or about the size of a Martha Jane. It has
        the
        > Birdwatcher style cabin, but like Jochems, has a small cockpit for
        > when the weather is too fine to stay inside. The rig is the
        Chinese
        > Gaff. The cartoon in 103 Rigs was a cat, but it has since evolved
        to
        > a cat-yawl. Once you have the sheet staff, why not a yawl?
        >
        > I intend the boat to be water-ballasted. PB&F are pushing the
        idea of
        > metal plate armoring the bottom instead. I suspect that the final
        > plans will include both options. The preliminary drawings had twin
        > bilge boards with cases integrated into the settee backs, to
        satisfy
        > those who are offended by the appearance of leeboards. I have
        asked
        > for leeboards as I subscribe to the KISS principle and I suspect
        that
        > the plans will show both options. To answer the demand for relief
        > from sharpie hull noises in waves, Wandervogel will have a V-shaped
        > bottom forward. It is typical sharpie flat aft.
        >
        > The rig includes the unique Chinese Gaff vang (a line from the mast
        > head to the front end of the boom, which extends a couple feet
        forward
        > of the mast.) The main area is 295 square feet and the mizzen is
        67.
        > (Compare 362 square feet available to the 247 on Martha Jane. If
        you
        > would rather sail than listen to the motor, this design has the
        > power.) The mizzen has gaff and battens and is shaped like the
        main.
        > It is intended to sail with the first reef in the main, unless the
        > breeze is very light, as per the CG rig description in 103 Rigs.
        > There is a unique solution to the problem of how to fit rudder,
        > tiller, outboard and mizzenmast on the transom. There are twin,
        > shallow, endplate-type rudders on the outer edges of the transom.
        The
        > outboard is on centerline. The mizzenmast is also on centerline,
        with
        > the tabernacle tall enough to hold the butt of the mast above the
        > outboard. The tabernacle is an A-frame to allow room to swing the
        > centerline tiller, mounted just below the mizzenmast. The folded
        > masts will fit within the boat length (if you include rudders in
        the
        > length.)
        >
        > The cabin includes two 6?-8? long settees amidships. These are
        > intended to convert to one queen-sized berth. There were no other
        > cabin details on the preliminary drawing. The write-up talked
        about
        > two pipe berths that could be temporarily rigged somewhere in the
        > cabin, but I was not clear on the details.
        >
        > I have built a model from the preliminary drawing. I posted
        photos on
        > Bolger3 in a file named Wandervogel. Having seen the model?s
        photos,
        > PB&F have said they thought the cabin should extend further
        forward.
        > The picture with sails up has the lower panel of the main cut off,
        to
        > represent the first reef, which is 20% of the mains?l area. The
        > figure at the helm in the model photos is a ?Skipper? doll, who
        would
        > be 6?-2? tall at 1.5? = 1? scale.
        >
        > Doug
      • pvanderwaart
        Thanks for sharing the news about the new design and the pictures of the model. A couple of unconnected thoughts: 1) Given the embarassment of the Martha Jane
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 1, 2004
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          Thanks for sharing the news about the new design and the pictures of
          the model. A couple of unconnected thoughts:

          1) Given the embarassment of the Martha Jane stability issue, I bet
          PB&F is more than happy to have the chance to get a replacement
          design on the books. MJ's have worked out well for a lot of people,
          but the fully revised version (which they are in the position of
          having to recommend) is a lot more work than the original. "Doing it
          right from the start", i.e. a fresh design, probably gets the
          advantages with less cost and effort. This might explain why they
          would produce "their" version as well as "your" version.

          2) I've never seen the vang arrangement before. Pretty neat, though
          it complicates the the boom construction. Does PB&F cite a precedent
          or claim it as original? Possibly an independent re-invention. It's
          real difficult to be completely novel.

          3) The complicated and unusual-looking mizzen tabernacle supports
          will look appropriately exotic with the Chinese rig. I think it would
          look odd with the cleaner sharpie rig, a la Skillygallee. Bolger is
          deep into tabernacles these days, and come seem very complicated and
          intrusive. For example, the slightly angled ones on the Jochems. On
          the St. Valerie, the boom rests awkwardly (it seems to me) on the
          tabernacle rather than the mast.

          4) Looks like a great boat.

          Peter
        • Bruce Hallman
          ... This is exciting, this design falls right into the sweet spot for backyard built trailerable camp cruisers.
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 1, 2004
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            oarmandt <oarmand@...> wrote:
            > Wandervogel
            > I have built a model from the preliminary drawing.

            This is exciting, this design falls right into
            the 'sweet spot' for backyard built trailerable
            camp cruisers.

            http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger3/lst?&.dir=/Wandervogel

            points to the folder with the photos.
          • Robert Jennings
            I really like the idea of a small cockpit in a Birdwatcher II type boat. What have you gained and lost with the Wandervogel compared to the Birdwatcher II? I
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 1, 2004
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              I really like the idea of a small cockpit in a Birdwatcher II type
              boat. What have you gained and lost with the Wandervogel compared to
              the Birdwatcher II? I ask because I'm close to buying the BW II plans
              but will wait if the Wandervogel has some qualities that are better
              for my needs than the BW II. It sounds like Bolger just keeps
              designing better boats.



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Bruce Hallman <bruce@...>
              Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 08:20:35 -0800
              Subject: Re: [bolger] New Design - Wandervogel
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com

              oarmandt <oarmand@...> wrote:
              > Wandervogel
              > I have built a model from the preliminary drawing.

              This is exciting, this design falls right into
              the 'sweet spot' for backyard built trailerable
              camp cruisers.

              http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger3/lst?&.dir=/Wandervogel

              points to the folder with the photos.




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            • oarmandt
              I looked seriously at the Birdwatcher a year ago, and Birdwatcher II when the last WoodenBoat came out. I concluded that Birdwatcher was smaller than my wife
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 1, 2004
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                I looked seriously at the Birdwatcher a year ago, and Birdwatcher II
                when the last WoodenBoat came out. I concluded that Birdwatcher was
                smaller than my wife and I would want to spend a week or even a
                weekend in. Strange, because BW and Wandervogel are within about 3"
                of each other in overall length. BW loses a lot of volume being
                double-ended. It is also narrower of beam. BW's cabin is somewhat
                spoiled by the centerboard case. If you like sitting on the floor
                (maybe a wet floor if the CB case spits), go with the BW. The WV will
                have proper chair-height seats, both cabin and cockpit.

                The cockpit degrades the birdwatcher concept somewhat in that it
                compromises righting ability from a knock-down. On the model, at 90
                degree knock-down attitude, the front edge of the cockpit rail is just
                going under. The buoyancy of the house prevents much water getting in
                the cockpit. But really, how often will it get knocked 90 degrees?

                Obviously, WV gives up lots to BW in simplicity of the sailing rig.
                Once the rig is up, the Chinese gaffer should be easier to reef, if it
                lives up to the advanced billing.

                WV will be heavier, more expensive, and more complicated to build.

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jennings <rjennings@g...> wrote:
                > I really like the idea of a small cockpit in a Birdwatcher II type
                > boat. What have you gained and lost with the Wandervogel compared to
                > the Birdwatcher II? I ask because I'm close to buying the BW II plans
                > but will wait if the Wandervogel has some qualities that are better
                > for my needs than the BW II. It sounds like Bolger just keeps
                > designing better boats.
                >
                >
              • k_s_oneill
                ... precedent ... It s a balestron rig without a jib. One might consider making the boom long enought to later add a jib; actually flying a jib might help
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 2, 2004
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
                  wrote:

                  > 2) I've never seen the vang arrangement before. Pretty neat, though
                  > it complicates the the boom construction. Does PB&F cite a
                  precedent
                  > or claim it as original? Possibly an independent re-invention. It's
                  > real difficult to be completely novel.

                  It's a balestron rig without a jib. One might consider making the
                  boom long enought to later add a jib; actually flying a jib might
                  help things out, and it might not. In "Beach Cruising and Coastal
                  Camping" Ida Little said her Bolger-designed Dugog picked up a full
                  knot in most conditions with the addition of a very small somewhat
                  silly-looking jib. Certainly it seems to me if you're going to go to
                  all the trouble to build the balestron boom you might as well put the
                  jib on it; it will be no extra effort or extra sheets to handle when
                  tacking, and the jib will balance the main some and actually lower
                  sheet tension. And it would look cool.

                  > 3) The complicated and unusual-looking mizzen tabernacle supports
                  > will look appropriately exotic with the Chinese rig.

                  I agree.

                  > 4) Looks like a great boat.

                  I agree with that too, though the angle of the fore cabin window is a
                  bit odd to me. Overall, though, the whole thing is very jaunty and
                  capable looking. The twin rudders and central outboard seem to me to
                  be a very good arrangement.

                  Kevin
                • Howard Stephenson
                  I ve just realized the photo of the Birdwatcher-type boat that appears on the front page of Bolger3 was a model, not a full-size boat. See:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 28, 2005
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                    I've just realized the photo of the Birdwatcher-type boat that
                    appears on the front page of Bolger3 was a model, not a full-size
                    boat. See:

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/

                    Anyone have any news on this design -- whether it was finished,
                    whether construction was started etc. ?

                    Howard


                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarmanD@c...> wrote:
                    > I would like to let the Group in on a new design in the works at
                    PB&F,
                    > which should come off the board soon. It is an elaboration on the
                    > Wandervogel cartoon that was rig number 101 in 103 Sailing Rigs. I
                    > commissioned it about a year ago. I was looking for a comfortable,
                    > trailerable, shoal-draft cruiser. The William D. Jochems design
                    was
                    > appealing, but ultimately, I decided it was more ambitious than I
                    > wanted to build and tow. Wandervogel is a couple feet smaller at
                    > 23?-9? x 6?-9? x 8?, or about the size of a Martha Jane.
                  • oarmandt
                    The model is mine. I commissioned the design after the cartoon 101 in 103 Sailing Rigs. The model was made from the preliminary drawing. Alas, the full
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 29, 2005
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                      The model is mine. I commissioned the design after the cartoon 101 in
                      103 Sailing Rigs. The model was made from the preliminary drawing.
                      Alas, the full design is in limbo, apparently behind several others in
                      PB&F's queue.

                      As with the recurring theme here lately, I have a "fill in" project.
                      Mine is a Birdwatcher. The second coat of paint is going on the hull,
                      so anticipation for the launch is building.

                      Doug

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson" <stephensonhw@a...>
                      wrote:
                      > I've just realized the photo of the Birdwatcher-type boat that
                      > appears on the front page of Bolger3 was a model, not a full-size
                      > boat. See:
                      >
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/
                      >
                      > Anyone have any news on this design -- whether it was finished,
                      > whether construction was started etc. ?
                      >
                      > Howard
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarmanD@c...> wrote:
                      > > I would like to let the Group in on a new design in the works at
                      > PB&F,
                      > > which should come off the board soon. It is an elaboration on the
                      > > Wandervogel cartoon that was rig number 101 in 103 Sailing Rigs. I
                      > > commissioned it about a year ago. I was looking for a comfortable,
                      > > trailerable, shoal-draft cruiser. The William D. Jochems design
                      > was
                      > > appealing, but ultimately, I decided it was more ambitious than I
                      > > wanted to build and tow. Wandervogel is a couple feet smaller at
                      > > 23?-9? x 6?-9? x 8?, or about the size of a Martha Jane.
                    • Howard Stephenson
                      Thanks. I was hoping my post would find the owner of the model. You ve done a good job with the photo, to make it look like a full-size boat. What a pity it s
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 29, 2005
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                        Thanks. I was hoping my post would find the owner of the model. You've
                        done a good job with the photo, to make it look like a full-size boat.

                        What a pity it's an unfinished design. I'm sure there'd be plenty of
                        people who'd be interested if it were finished.

                        Howard

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@v...> wrote:
                        > The model is mine. I commissioned the design after the cartoon 101
                        in
                        > 103 Sailing Rigs. The model was made from the preliminary drawing.
                        > Alas, the full design is in limbo, apparently behind several others
                        in
                        > PB&F's queue.
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