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Stetching an Idaho - need for centerboards and Turtle

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  • bert andjan
    Given the good discussion...perhaps one could creatively do Don s hole protected by a waterproof bulkhead and build a retractable centerboard contraption that
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 20, 2004
      Given the good discussion...perhaps one could
      creatively do Don's hole protected by a waterproof
      bulkhead and build a retractable centerboard
      contraption that would use the hole instead of the
      retracting electric "bow thruster" (actually a
      trolling motor)...I like the idea of the hole in the
      boat for
      underwater viewing as we've discussed elsewhere and
      for
      fishing when the mosquitoes won't allow you on
      deck...always thought it'd be fun to fish from inside
      while playing the new board game "Settler's"...When
      the board isn't needed, nor the fishing, nor the
      viewing, there'd be a plug that filled the hole flush
      with the hull...this would be more practical on a
      non-planing hull... Sure is fun to dream up new
      ideas...

      BTW I'd think of increasing the beam closer to
      trailerable width on something that's 30 plus feet
      long...but than she'd probably need more than a 9.9
      OB...any thoughts?

      Ed Brewer has a beautiful cruiser of this type of
      plywood called "Quiet Times"...

      I'd love to ask John Barlet who built and owns Turtle
      about his boat, are you, is he, around here somewhere
      on email?

      All the best to you all!


      Bert Eggers...Saginaw, Mi

      From: "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
      Subject: Re: Sketching on an
      Idaho

      Yes I had found Turtle including
      what I believe is an older photo of
      her with a blue hull, and some
      interior pics. Her ability to move
      with no wake is impressive. I
      note the additional beam she has also.

      Like many, I'd like to avoid the
      center board. I understand the
      handling advantages, but don't
      like the complexity, nor the hole in
      the bottom. If I were to build
      a Wyoming, I'd consider a "shoe"
      and/or a retractable thruster
      based on an electric trolling motor.
      That hole in the bottom can be
      isolated ahead of a major bulkhead,
      where it does not present risk
      to flooding the cabin.




      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com,
      "Jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
      > The reason for the centerboard
      on the Idaho, Wyo, Sneakeasy, etc.
      Is to help control the boat in
      head seas or in a turn. Sharpies have
      a tendency to skid in sharp
      turns at higher speeds making them prone
      to tripping. The centerboard
      helps control the skid and helps with
      the yawing that can take place
      in big head seas.
      >
      > You should either have the
      centerboard or a long shoe or runners to
      provide lateral forces. A bow
      thruster would not be effective
      underway, but great for close in
      handling.
      >


      Just to add to Jeffs excellent
      points,the centerboard is also a life
      saver(face-saver?) in marinas
      where one has to manouver at slow speed
      through a labyrinth of boat
      jammed quays.On perfectly calm days this
      is a non-event,but throw in a
      nice cross wind and soon the boat is
      weaving all over the place,the
      helmsman spinning the wheel like a man
      possessed while ramming the
      shifter/throttle back and forth in a vain
      attempt to get his boat to "go
      straight!" Just spend some time on a
      breezy day at your local marina
      and watch the panic parties racing up
      and down the docks to fend off
      another boat attempting to leave or
      enter.
      With the nice big flat sides of
      these"cruising power sharpies" acting
      as a sail,combined with
      virtually zero draft up forward and
      relatively light weight,a
      centerboard is a most welcomed low-tech
      solution.Added to this is a
      superior range of sealants/adhesives
      which make traditional leeky
      spots(like a centerboard case) really a
      thing of the past.Besides,with
      the plywood construction specified,you
      should experience no swelling at
      all of a properly sealed and
      fastened centerboard case.
      And as if that weren't
      enough,they also make for excellent low speed
      depth sounders and a picnic
      anchor(or spud,as Bolger calls them)
      whereby you simply lower the
      board into some soft sand or mud,in your
      favorite protected water cove
      and crack open a cold one while
      planning your next move :-)






      __________________________________
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    • donschultz8275
      Just to keep things on track. My Idaho stretch is vertical, raising cabin height. My intent is to build per plans from the gunwales down. Reading about
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 20, 2004
        Just to keep things on track. My Idaho "stretch" is vertical,
        raising cabin height. My intent is to build per plans from the
        gunwales down.

        Reading about centerboards in PCB's essays concerning Wyoming and
        Minnesota, he does not directly say, but seems to indicate the
        board's normal state is down and it should be retracted only when
        absolutely necessary.

        A good view of how a bow thruster might be executed is shown in the
        Illinois study plan.

        http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Illinois/

        For Illinois a medium sized outboard is used as a thruster, but the
        scheme would readily scale down to hold an electric trolling motor.

        My thought for a thruster is to directly address the "windy day in
        the marina" scenario described previously.

        I'd rather have a shoe than a centerboard, gain durability, and what
        I perceive as simplicity, though I certainly muck up the "simple"
        part with a retractable thruster.

        Lastly. If I would choose to go for the 6'+ beam, I would build
        Minnesota, at least in all external dimensions. I'm not interested
        in 100+ hp, so I think the boat could internally be built "like
        Idaho" if one was careful to keep the HP at Idaho limits.

        Of course, at that point, it becomes "Bolger inspired" rather than a
        Bolger boat.

        IMO the "fishing hole" suggested below might be best executed on a
        multihull design, IE Bantam.



        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, bert andjan <bertandjan@y...> wrote:

        ...I like the idea of the hole in the
        > boat for
        > underwater viewing as we've discussed elsewhere and
        > for
        > fishing when the mosquitoes won't allow you on
        > deck...always thought it'd be fun to fish from inside
        > while playing the new board game "Settler's"...When
        > the board isn't needed, nor the fishing, nor the
        > viewing, there'd be a plug that filled the hole flush
        > with the hull...this would be more practical on a
        > non-planing hull... Sure is fun to dream up new
        > ideas...
        >
        > BTW I'd think of increasing the beam closer to
        > trailerable width on something that's 30 plus feet
        > long...but than she'd probably need more than a 9.9
        > OB...any thoughts?
      • bruce@hallman.org
        ... These long sharpies could be fitted with a lee board, which would be simpler than a centerboard trunk, more effective than a shoe in a cross wind and
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 20, 2004
          --- "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...> wrote:
          > I'd rather have a shoe than a centerboard,

          These long sharpies could be fitted with a
          lee board, which would be simpler than a
          centerboard trunk, more effective than a shoe
          in a cross wind and cheaper than a bow thruster.
        • chodges31711
          ... How much do you plan to stretch? What headroom dimension are you trying for? I have thought about an Idaho cabin with 6 feet inside. That would be an
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 20, 2004
            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
            wrote:
            > Just to keep things on track. My Idaho "stretch" is vertical,
            > raising cabin height. My intent is to build per plans from the
            > gunwales down.
            >
            How much do you plan to stretch? What headroom dimension are you
            trying for?
            I have thought about an Idaho cabin with 6 feet inside. That would
            be an additional 14 inches over plan.
            The Idaho gunwales are low relative to length. A Dakota scaled back
            to 31' long would have gunwales 6 inches higher than the 31'Idaho.
            If you add 6 inches to the Idaho gunwale height and 8 inches to the
            cabin sides the proportions may be better than 14" added to the
            sides. It would look more like a Dakota without the rocker.

            Charles
          • chodges31711
            ... The bow draws very little water so a thruster would need to be go below the bottom and be easily retracted to above the water line for planing speeds or
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 20, 2004
              > These long sharpies could be fitted with a
              > lee board, which would be simpler than a
              > centerboard trunk, more effective than a shoe
              > in a cross wind and cheaper than a bow thruster.

              The bow draws very little water so a thruster would need to be go
              below the bottom and be easily retracted to above the water line for
              planing speeds or shallows.

              Charles
            • donschultz8275
              I m thinking 6 6 (I m 6 3 ) in the main cabin and outhouse. I ll play w look and proportions using paint and 1/4 ply as necessary to make it look right to
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 21, 2004
                I'm thinking 6'6" (I'm 6'3") in the main cabin and outhouse.

                I'll play w' look and proportions using paint and 1/4" ply as
                necessary to make it look right to my eye.


                > How much do you plan to stretch? What headroom dimension are you
                > trying for?
                > I have thought about an Idaho cabin with 6 feet inside. That would
                > be an additional 14 inches over plan.
                > The Idaho gunwales are low relative to length. A Dakota scaled back
                > to 31' long would have gunwales 6 inches higher than the 31'Idaho.
                > If you add 6 inches to the Idaho gunwale height and 8 inches to the
                > cabin sides the proportions may be better than 14" added to the
                > sides. It would look more like a Dakota without the rocker.
                >
                > Charles
              • chodges31711
                ... If you look at the state series and maybe most of Bolger s flat bottom boats, cabin height is less than or equal to boat width. I do not know if there is a
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 22, 2004
                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@i...>
                  wrote:
                  > I'm thinking 6'6" (I'm 6'3") in the main cabin and outhouse.
                  >
                  > I'll play w' look and proportions using paint and 1/4" ply as
                  > necessary to make it look right to my eye.
                  >
                  If you look at the state series and maybe most of Bolger's flat
                  bottom boats, cabin height is less than or equal to boat width. I do
                  not know if there is a reason - looks, windage, center of gravity?

                  Charles
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