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Re: phil bolger and friends

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  • Nels
    ... Hi Bruce and Jason, Of course I have considered Jesse Cooper, as well as Seabird updated, especially when I had planned to live aboard on a more long-term
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
      > --- Nels wrote:
      > > a LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR
      >
      > Ever considered a Jessie Cooper?
      >
      > You could safely upsize the cabin
      > windows using Lexan, and have a full
      > size mattress for your berth. :)

      Hi Bruce and Jason,

      Of course I have considered Jesse Cooper, as well as Seabird updated,
      especially when I had planned to live aboard on a more long-term
      basis. Then when I realized the capability of the MICRO series, I
      down-sized my requirements and gained the big advantage of
      trailerability. (The fastest sailboat in the world is one that fits
      nicely on a trailer.)

      PCB gives a good summary of the weaknesses of JC on page 369 of
      BWAOM. He then designed the AS19 and AS29 to overcome these
      deficiences. LONG MICRO already had all the AS design features,
      except for the double bed. JC might still be a good choice if one was
      more or less permanently located in a deep water berth.

      Seabird is a beautiful alternative but has several challenges that I
      am not that interested in. I like the instant boat building method
      rather than stitch and glue. Seabird is quite a bit wider, is not as
      beachable and actually does not have as much interior space because
      of the double chines. Also I am not sure how stable she would be in a
      dry-out situation with that narrow bottom. (Which PCB says makes
      her "tiddly at anchor.)

      Seabird would be more expensive to build, does not have that nice
      yawl rig, does not have near the storage space in the hold - again
      because of the multichines and the cooking area taking up most of the
      space.

      In a LM with pilothouse, I have figured out a way to have room for a
      berth that would convert to a double, in the forward section and
      quickly flip up to go to the f'ward hatch. And then have a regular
      galley with stand-up headroom. One can shower in the forward well and
      there is still space for a pump-out head opposite the galley. If you
      have ever seen the interior of some of the campervan conversions you
      will see that they have several clever solutions.

      To me the 20 ft length, sahllow keel, and 6 foot beam is still
      convenient ot trail and launch at most ramps. I firmly believe that
      the MICRO series gives the best bang for the buck if you are not
      turned off by the visual aspects. As somebody once said, few people
      understand that the looks they detest are the very features that make
      it work so well!

      Cheers, Nels
    • Bruce Hallman
      ... Eletrical usage can be calculated. Using a 300watt microwave for five minutes is negligible. Extended usage of 100 watt lights, stereo amp, [or a 12V
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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        --- Jason Stancil wrote:
        > ...no microwaves here (like bruce's

        Eletrical usage can be calculated.

        Using a 300watt microwave for five
        minutes is negligible. Extended
        usage of 100 watt lights, stereo amp,
        [or a 12V refrigerator, like with
        Champlain] is how to run up the amp
        hours!

        The WWWeb has a lot of info on this,
        mostly aimed at motorhome/RV off-
        grid'ers.

        My calculation is for Micro Navigator
        to charge up all week on my 44 Watts
        of photovoltaic panels, and draw down
        on Sat. & Sunday. I also will carry
        a beefy 12V battery charger as backup.

        Twin Trojan T-105 6V batteries hold
        a lot more energy [440AH] than one 12V
        group 27 battery [105AH].

        Champlain as designed, with four 8D
        12V batteries, holds 900 AH.

        I considered LED lights, but decided
        it was too expensive. Buying more
        battery/PV and using incandescent
        lights was cheaper IMO than using LED's.
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... [Thanks] No, I started in September 2002, and have averaged about 10 manhours per week, with more than 550 hours [and $1500] into it so far.
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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          --- Frank San Miguel:
          > Didn't you just start
          > this a few months
          > ago!

          [Thanks] No, I started
          in September 2002, and have
          averaged about 10 manhours
          per week, with more than
          550 hours [and $1500] into
          it so far.
        • Frank San Miguel
          I remember you starting, but forgot exactly when you started. My how time flies!
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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            I remember you starting, but forgot exactly when you started. My how
            time flies!

            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
            > --- Frank San Miguel:
            > > Didn't you just start
            > > this a few months
            > > ago!
            >
            > [Thanks] No, I started
            > in September 2002, and have
            > averaged about 10 manhours
            > per week, with more than
            > 550 hours [and $1500] into
            > it so far.
          • Bruce Hallman
            ... 25 6 x 7 6 is trailerable. though not a small as a LM. The J.C. flat bottom had advantages over the fin keel of L.M. when it comes sitting on a trailer.
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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              --- Nels
              > Jesse Cooper,
              > gained the big
              > advantage of
              > trailerability.

              25'6 x 7'6" is trailerable.
              though not a small as a LM.

              The J.C. flat bottom had advantages
              over the fin keel of L.M. when
              it comes sitting on a trailer.

              They both have similar amounts
              of ballast.

              I bet that 25'6" could be
              cut down to 24' by giving
              J.C. a bow transom without
              much affect, if any.

              The fact that JC has a top
              deck, where you can walk from
              stern to bow makes it a lot
              bigger boat measured in 'sprawl
              space'.

              One drawback of a Navigator style
              cabin is that the roof of the
              cabin doesn't serve double duty
              as a deck, nor is there any easy
              way to walk between the front to the
              aft decks. Plus, the Chinese Gaff
              rig has so much running rigging that
              the forward deck is effectively unusable.
            • RKAMILS@aol.com
              In a message dated 4/1/2004 4:04:36 PM Central Standard Time, bruce@hallman.org writes: considered LED lights, but decided it was too expensive. Buying more
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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                In a message dated 4/1/2004 4:04:36 PM Central Standard Time,
                bruce@... writes:
                considered LED lights, but decided
                it was too expensive. Buying more
                battery/PV and using incandescent
                lights was cheaper IMO than using LED's
                True, LED lights are expensive. They have another advantage besides low amp
                draw, however. They can be made totally waterproof as you don't have to
                change bulbs. This may not matter to all of you who will only be in fresh water,
                but when I became a live aboard on the Roberts Spray 28 I built, and got out
                into saltwater I did indeed have problems with corrosion cutting out my nav
                lights. I will spend the money on the one I'm building now (Bantam) because nav
                lights that don't work are trouble.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nels
                ... Actually the shallow keel is an advantge as it raises the chines up above the fenders of the trailer. ... I believe JC is twice as heavy. The 480 lb of
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                  > 25'6 x 7'6" is trailerable.
                  > though not a small as a LM.
                  >
                  > The J.C. flat bottom had advantages
                  > over the fin keel of L.M. when
                  > it comes sitting on a trailer.

                  Actually the shallow keel is an advantge as it raises the chines up
                  above the fenders of the trailer.

                  > They both have similar amounts
                  > of ballast.

                  I believe JC is twice as heavy. The 480 lb of inside steel ballest
                  shown on the plans is not enough from what I have heard. But I will
                  certainly ask PCB&F when I talk to them. The fact that they have
                  pretty much abandened the JC design and continue to upgrade and tweak
                  the MICRO series I find very interesting.

                  Chuck Merrell probably has the best JC example, but he said that if
                  he built another it would have the full length keel like LM

                  http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy/pages/junkboy.htm

                  Unfortunately he never completed the re-design that would have
                  overcome some of the original weaknesses.

                  Having all that deckspace, certainly is attractive. Yet being down
                  inside the boat and having full visibility seems to be the direction
                  that PCB&F are going in.

                  Cheers, Nels
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