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Re: [bolger] Re: phil bolger and friends

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... Ever considered a Jessie Cooper? You could safely upsize the cabin windows using Lexan, and have a full size mattress for your berth. :)
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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      --- Nels wrote:
      > a LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR

      Ever considered a Jessie Cooper?

      You could safely upsize the cabin
      windows using Lexan, and have a full
      size mattress for your berth. :)
    • Frank San Miguel
      holy cow. Didn t you just start this a few months ago! What a beauty. Awesome job! Frank
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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        holy cow. Didn't you just start this a few months ago! What a
        beauty. Awesome job!

        Frank

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
        > --- Frank San Miguel wrote:
        > > Can you please repost
        > > the link?
        >
        > http://community.webshots.com/album/121069753OCENAu
        >
        > It was interesting to read of SA's comments
        > about the need for bottom strength for
        > safety in a storm against pounding.
        >
        > Note that in Micro Navigator, as in other
        > designs, [such as Dakota/Wyoming], PB&F
        > specify the use of floor beams
        > [which double as the faces of the berths].
        >
        >
        > They wrote in MAIB:
        > "Incidentally, one side effect of the new cabin
        > layout is the further stiffening of the bottom
        > fore and aft."
      • Nels
        ... Hi Bruce and Jason, Of course I have considered Jesse Cooper, as well as Seabird updated, especially when I had planned to live aboard on a more long-term
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
          > --- Nels wrote:
          > > a LONG MICRO NAVIGATOR
          >
          > Ever considered a Jessie Cooper?
          >
          > You could safely upsize the cabin
          > windows using Lexan, and have a full
          > size mattress for your berth. :)

          Hi Bruce and Jason,

          Of course I have considered Jesse Cooper, as well as Seabird updated,
          especially when I had planned to live aboard on a more long-term
          basis. Then when I realized the capability of the MICRO series, I
          down-sized my requirements and gained the big advantage of
          trailerability. (The fastest sailboat in the world is one that fits
          nicely on a trailer.)

          PCB gives a good summary of the weaknesses of JC on page 369 of
          BWAOM. He then designed the AS19 and AS29 to overcome these
          deficiences. LONG MICRO already had all the AS design features,
          except for the double bed. JC might still be a good choice if one was
          more or less permanently located in a deep water berth.

          Seabird is a beautiful alternative but has several challenges that I
          am not that interested in. I like the instant boat building method
          rather than stitch and glue. Seabird is quite a bit wider, is not as
          beachable and actually does not have as much interior space because
          of the double chines. Also I am not sure how stable she would be in a
          dry-out situation with that narrow bottom. (Which PCB says makes
          her "tiddly at anchor.)

          Seabird would be more expensive to build, does not have that nice
          yawl rig, does not have near the storage space in the hold - again
          because of the multichines and the cooking area taking up most of the
          space.

          In a LM with pilothouse, I have figured out a way to have room for a
          berth that would convert to a double, in the forward section and
          quickly flip up to go to the f'ward hatch. And then have a regular
          galley with stand-up headroom. One can shower in the forward well and
          there is still space for a pump-out head opposite the galley. If you
          have ever seen the interior of some of the campervan conversions you
          will see that they have several clever solutions.

          To me the 20 ft length, sahllow keel, and 6 foot beam is still
          convenient ot trail and launch at most ramps. I firmly believe that
          the MICRO series gives the best bang for the buck if you are not
          turned off by the visual aspects. As somebody once said, few people
          understand that the looks they detest are the very features that make
          it work so well!

          Cheers, Nels
        • Bruce Hallman
          ... Eletrical usage can be calculated. Using a 300watt microwave for five minutes is negligible. Extended usage of 100 watt lights, stereo amp, [or a 12V
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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            --- Jason Stancil wrote:
            > ...no microwaves here (like bruce's

            Eletrical usage can be calculated.

            Using a 300watt microwave for five
            minutes is negligible. Extended
            usage of 100 watt lights, stereo amp,
            [or a 12V refrigerator, like with
            Champlain] is how to run up the amp
            hours!

            The WWWeb has a lot of info on this,
            mostly aimed at motorhome/RV off-
            grid'ers.

            My calculation is for Micro Navigator
            to charge up all week on my 44 Watts
            of photovoltaic panels, and draw down
            on Sat. & Sunday. I also will carry
            a beefy 12V battery charger as backup.

            Twin Trojan T-105 6V batteries hold
            a lot more energy [440AH] than one 12V
            group 27 battery [105AH].

            Champlain as designed, with four 8D
            12V batteries, holds 900 AH.

            I considered LED lights, but decided
            it was too expensive. Buying more
            battery/PV and using incandescent
            lights was cheaper IMO than using LED's.
          • Bruce Hallman
            ... [Thanks] No, I started in September 2002, and have averaged about 10 manhours per week, with more than 550 hours [and $1500] into it so far.
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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              --- Frank San Miguel:
              > Didn't you just start
              > this a few months
              > ago!

              [Thanks] No, I started
              in September 2002, and have
              averaged about 10 manhours
              per week, with more than
              550 hours [and $1500] into
              it so far.
            • Frank San Miguel
              I remember you starting, but forgot exactly when you started. My how time flies!
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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                I remember you starting, but forgot exactly when you started. My how
                time flies!

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                > --- Frank San Miguel:
                > > Didn't you just start
                > > this a few months
                > > ago!
                >
                > [Thanks] No, I started
                > in September 2002, and have
                > averaged about 10 manhours
                > per week, with more than
                > 550 hours [and $1500] into
                > it so far.
              • Bruce Hallman
                ... 25 6 x 7 6 is trailerable. though not a small as a LM. The J.C. flat bottom had advantages over the fin keel of L.M. when it comes sitting on a trailer.
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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                  --- Nels
                  > Jesse Cooper,
                  > gained the big
                  > advantage of
                  > trailerability.

                  25'6 x 7'6" is trailerable.
                  though not a small as a LM.

                  The J.C. flat bottom had advantages
                  over the fin keel of L.M. when
                  it comes sitting on a trailer.

                  They both have similar amounts
                  of ballast.

                  I bet that 25'6" could be
                  cut down to 24' by giving
                  J.C. a bow transom without
                  much affect, if any.

                  The fact that JC has a top
                  deck, where you can walk from
                  stern to bow makes it a lot
                  bigger boat measured in 'sprawl
                  space'.

                  One drawback of a Navigator style
                  cabin is that the roof of the
                  cabin doesn't serve double duty
                  as a deck, nor is there any easy
                  way to walk between the front to the
                  aft decks. Plus, the Chinese Gaff
                  rig has so much running rigging that
                  the forward deck is effectively unusable.
                • RKAMILS@aol.com
                  In a message dated 4/1/2004 4:04:36 PM Central Standard Time, bruce@hallman.org writes: considered LED lights, but decided it was too expensive. Buying more
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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                    In a message dated 4/1/2004 4:04:36 PM Central Standard Time,
                    bruce@... writes:
                    considered LED lights, but decided
                    it was too expensive. Buying more
                    battery/PV and using incandescent
                    lights was cheaper IMO than using LED's
                    True, LED lights are expensive. They have another advantage besides low amp
                    draw, however. They can be made totally waterproof as you don't have to
                    change bulbs. This may not matter to all of you who will only be in fresh water,
                    but when I became a live aboard on the Roberts Spray 28 I built, and got out
                    into saltwater I did indeed have problems with corrosion cutting out my nav
                    lights. I will spend the money on the one I'm building now (Bantam) because nav
                    lights that don't work are trouble.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Nels
                    ... Actually the shallow keel is an advantge as it raises the chines up above the fenders of the trailer. ... I believe JC is twice as heavy. The 480 lb of
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 1, 2004
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                      > 25'6 x 7'6" is trailerable.
                      > though not a small as a LM.
                      >
                      > The J.C. flat bottom had advantages
                      > over the fin keel of L.M. when
                      > it comes sitting on a trailer.

                      Actually the shallow keel is an advantge as it raises the chines up
                      above the fenders of the trailer.

                      > They both have similar amounts
                      > of ballast.

                      I believe JC is twice as heavy. The 480 lb of inside steel ballest
                      shown on the plans is not enough from what I have heard. But I will
                      certainly ask PCB&F when I talk to them. The fact that they have
                      pretty much abandened the JC design and continue to upgrade and tweak
                      the MICRO series I find very interesting.

                      Chuck Merrell probably has the best JC example, but he said that if
                      he built another it would have the full length keel like LM

                      http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy/pages/junkboy.htm

                      Unfortunately he never completed the re-design that would have
                      overcome some of the original weaknesses.

                      Having all that deckspace, certainly is attractive. Yet being down
                      inside the boat and having full visibility seems to be the direction
                      that PCB&F are going in.

                      Cheers, Nels
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