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Re: MICRO KEEL PATTERN

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  • smithriverranger
    Thanks Peter! I need all the help i can get. Jason
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 30, 2004
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      Thanks Peter! I need all the help i can get.
      Jason
    • Nels
      ... Hi Peter, I was thinking more of a scale drawing and not a full size - so that a builder could transfer the figures to make changes to his own set of plans
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 30, 2004
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@h...>
        wrote:
        > Juice and motivation aren't the problem Nels,it's me total lack of
        > skills when it comes to computers.I still get a rush whenever I
        > manage to actually post a picture,imagine! Other then that,it would
        > take one hellava printer to get out a huge pattern like that,no?

        Hi Peter,

        I was thinking more of a scale drawing and not a full size - so that
        a builder could transfer the figures to make changes to his own set
        of plans and then scale up to full-sized from those changes. Perhaps
        I can take the measurements directly off of LESTAT and see what I can
        do.

        After perusing the hull building article in DW mag, I have a few
        questions. Mostly has to do with your well-known attraction towards
        sturdy bottoms:-)

        It seems that you made a good decision by going to the thicker
        plywood - 3/8" instead of 1/4" and 1/2" for the bottom. You also
        upsized the chine logs and used SS screws instead of ring nails to
        fasten things together. I expect the added weight helped cancel out
        the added bouyancy from the deadwood in the keel. It seems also that
        a boat as initially stable as the MICROs have a lot of reserve
        stability anyway.

        Where the heavier chines decided on because of the heavier
        fastenings? (Less chance of splitting etc.) The trade-ff being you
        had to steam the chine logs to get tehm into position.

        Did you space the screws the same distance as you would have with
        ring nails? I am wondering if a screw holds that much better than a
        ring nail as it must be counter-sunk and then there is the risk of it
        being pulled through the 3/8" plywood. Or would it be possible to
        remove the screws above the water line once the expoxy has cured? In
        which case one could use drywall screws. (Below the waterline they
        will be totally glassed in anyway.)

        I am also wondering about installing the keelson, which is not
        mentioned in the plans. You used a 1X4 mahogany board faired into
        notches in all the bulkheads and both ends? Then you screwed the
        bottom plywood along the keelson as well?

        For the rest of the framing, you went with the standard dimensions it
        seems, except for the cabin overhead beams. Did you use a smaller
        sized screw in the smaller frames?. The laminated beams in the cabin
        are really a beautiful addition and we will have some more questions
        related to them when we get that far.

        I am going out to get a copy of Bud Mac's book. I see where one could
        have a manual that links it and Dynamite's books together. I don't
        believe that an additional manual would constrict a builders natural
        creativity. What it would do is pull together various articles that
        are already scattered around "out there" and perhaps avoid some
        potential pitfalls to catch people over and over again.

        The sharing of ideas would never be stifled so long as there are
        pirates, dreamers, half vast vikings, beer drinking proslethizers and
        moaning chair mystics! (Sorry if I missed anyone:-)

        Cheers, Nels
      • Peter Lenihan
        ... Hi Nels, Yes,the chines were slightly beefed up to take the fastenings without fear of having the prescribed 3/4 square chines split. As for the steaming
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 30, 2004
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          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
          > Where the heavier chines decided on because of the heavier
          > fastenings? (Less chance of splitting etc.) The trade-ff being you
          > had to steam the chine logs to get tehm into position.



          Hi Nels, Yes,the chines were slightly beefed up to take the
          fastenings without fear of having the prescribed 3/4" square chines
          split. As for the"steaming" of them,it was just a couple of
          towels,wrapped around the chine at the point of greatest bend,soaked
          with hot water,covered in plastic and left over-night with a weight
          attached to the outboard end.When I returned the following day,the
          chines had settled down to their new shape:-)


          >
          > Did you space the screws the same distance as you would have with
          > ring nails? I am wondering if a screw holds that much better than a
          > ring nail as it must be counter-sunk and then there is the risk of
          it
          > being pulled through the 3/8" plywood. Or would it be possible to
          > remove the screws above the water line once the expoxy has cured?
          In
          > which case one could use drywall screws. (Below the waterline they
          > will be totally glassed in anyway.)




          The primary reason for my use of screws has to do with how I like to
          build.That is,I am a firm believer in the "dry fit" whereby whatever
          you are assembling all gets put together without epoxy and tested for
          fit.Once the piece is"perfect",it is unscrewed,epoxy is then laid on
          and the whole thing goes back together precisely since you can now
          use your screw holes as guides.Another benefit is that a screw will
          let you draw a work together gently without all the noise,hammer head
          dents in the wood from missed strikes and general violence usually
          associated with a swinging hammer.Ring nails are just as strong as
          screws but do not afford the above advantages.
          I suppose that one could remove all the fastenings and trust the
          epoxy to do its job.At the time when I built LESTAT,my faith was
          still somewhat shaky.

          >
          > I am also wondering about installing the keelson, which is not
          > mentioned in the plans. You used a 1X4 mahogany board faired into
          > notches in all the bulkheads and both ends? Then you screwed the
          > bottom plywood along the keelson as well?



          I recall it as more a 1X6 but what's a couple of inches between
          friends :-) but yes,that is how it was done with the keelson only
          running between the two ends of the enclosed living space and not out
          to the transom nor the stem(bow transom). I wanted it for the
          spreading of the loads expected from the traditionally hung ballast
          and to prevent the bottom plywood from flexing the wrong way and
          developing a convex bottom.
          >



          > For the rest of the framing, you went with the standard dimensions
          it
          > seems, except for the cabin overhead beams. Did you use a smaller
          > sized screw in the smaller frames?.


          For most of the boat,I used s/s Robertson drive number 8 screws with
          some number 6 and 10 where thought best and a few number 14(yikes!)
          like the ones which secure the eye straps up forward on the mast
          partner.


          I don't
          > believe that an additional manual would constrict a builders
          natural
          > creativity. What it would do is pull together various articles that
          > are already scattered around "out there" and perhaps avoid some
          > potential pitfalls to catch people over and over again.
          >
          > The sharing of ideas would never be stifled so long as there are
          > pirates, dreamers, half vast vikings, beer drinking proslethizers
          and
          > moaning chair mystics! (Sorry if I missed anyone:-)



          Deep down inside my little black rock of a soul,I whole heartedly
          agree with you Nels..............but I'm too lazy :-)
          Perhaps if you keep asking me a few questions at a time and take
          notes,over time you might be able to throw together a manual of sorts
          and market it........I won't even ask for a royalty :-D


          Sincerely,

          Peter Lenihan



































          >
          > Cheers, Nels
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