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micro modifications

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  • smithriverranger
    I m days away from turning on my saw to begin my micro and have a question about a few modifications i need to sort out before i get too invovled. Transom- i
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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      I'm days away from turning on my saw to begin my micro and have a
      question about a few modifications i need to sort out before i get
      too invovled.

      Transom- i want to put an arch the same radius as the cuddy deck
      over the transom, strickly too please my eye. I plan on using a 2hp
      honda and there should be plenty of clearance for tilting the
      outboard. I've seen pictures of quite a few micros with this mod. It
      may make it a little tougher to exit the boat via the stern but i'm
      ok with that. Any problems i'm not taking into account.

      Rudder- going to beef it up and add a ss shoe down the whole bottom
      for protection. I'm also thinking of doing it like a long micro with
      the "wings". Draw backs?

      Bow Vent- I'm under impression that bolger did away with this on the
      long micro, is this the case?.....I'd like to keep the bunks as dry
      as possible and have considered a dorade box if it's a bit stuffy
      without the bow vent?

      Offset bow slots- I've heard people have done this but not sure
      why....i could be convinced, what is the case for offsetting?

      Rig- Sprit or navigator chinese gaff? I'd go with the chinese gaff
      if the mizzen matched the main alas it doesn't and it to my eye it
      looks a bit funny with 2 diff. rigs.
      Seems like every large bolger boat has been converted to a junk (my
      favorite rig) has anyone ever done this on a micro or know how to go
      about it? Not sure about the center of effort moving and all of the
      technical aspects so unless somebody tutors me i'll have hold off on
      the cat ketch junk conversion. Pros and Cons of sprit vs. navigator
      rig.

      Cockpit- Bolger designed this for simplicity and i believe there is
      room for improvement at the cost of building ease. Thinking of a
      cockpit coaming(sp?)and maybe lowering the seats a few inches.....

      Lowering the seats why? Because of my big change....I want to build
      a navigator but i find bolger's design UGLY, I'm sure it functions
      beautifully but i can't stomach it. So i'm going to fit a chabacco
      style pilot house like on richard spelling's boat.

      That's it. If anyone has some ideas that worked well for them i'd
      love to hear about it. I know some folks are going to jump on me
      about changing a perfectly good design, but most of the mods bolger
      either made himself to later boats he dsigned (read long micro)or
      ok'd them for other micro builders. The pilot house thing seems like
      a big deal but it's actually only a cosmetic change of what bolger
      has already designed.

      Let's hear it,
      Jason Stancil
    • Nels
      ... Hi Jason, I am going to respond to your post in a random fashion and it is only my opinion based on my current knowledge. I would build entirely to plan
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger" <jasonstancil@h...>
        wrote:
        > I'm days away from turning on my saw to begin my micro and have a
        > question about a few modifications i need to sort out before i get
        > too invovled.

        Hi Jason,

        I am going to respond to your post in a random fashion and it is only
        my opinion based on my current knowledge.

        I would build entirely to plan and any changes you mention can be
        added afterwards based on seeing how the original design works "as
        is". The only changes I would make are those suggested by Peter to
        get a stronger hull.

        Transom arch is a waste of time and energy and makes getting INTO the
        boat much more difficult. Also you may want to upgrade to a larger
        motor sometime. LESTAT has been used with a 25 on her:-)

        The LONG MICRO has two "whiley windows" in the forward bulkhead I
        believe. There are illustrations of that on site here. As for the bow
        steps on the MICRO, I would only have the top one if that - and have
        drain holes on the forward sides like LONG MICRO. Water has been
        known to come in the bow openings and splash in through the vent on
        the f'wd bulkhead. These bow openings ae useless as boarding steps,
        unless you are a monkey.

        The endplate on the rudder actually makes it a bit more exposed to
        damage and catching onto something. But I think it is useful.

        A SS or even iron shoe is a waste as well. Better to use a
        sacrificial wooden shoe and a SS bottom bearing/support for the
        rudder as Peter describes.

        I would not lower the seats, although a coaming would be of interest
        if I was adding a pilot house. It helps to offset the height of the
        house. I would not install a self-draining footwell until after
        trying the boat as designed. The size of the hold is something
        to "behold". Your dog and two kids could sleep in it:-)

        The sailing rig as designed is about perfect. For extra shelter I
        would use a folding dodger over the companionway. Plans and kits
        available from sailrite. This would be more versatile than a hard
        dodger and can also be supplemented by a sun awning/bimini when in
        the Exumas:-)

        I would also make an effort to view a finished MICRO before making
        any big design changes. One cannot visualize the amount of room it
        has until you actually climb aboard one. To imagine a LONG MICRO with
        an added house - well we are talking liveaboard here, at a fraction
        of the cost of anything comparable.

        However if you insist you need a dodger or pilothouse then you might
        want to consider the Chinese lug right at the start, and order the
        additional plan sheet for reference.

        Cheers, Nels
      • smithriverranger
        I need to order the navigator companion plans as this may save me quite a bit of headache. I don t have a fax so i ve been increadibly lazy about contacting
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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          I need to order the navigator companion plans as this may save me
          quite a bit of headache. I don't have a fax so i've been increadibly
          lazy about contacting PB&F.

          As far as the navigator rig goes i'd like to have the main and
          mizzen match. I think it would be rather simple to design a well
          balanced chinese gaff mizzen but not so sure i could work out a
          suitable arrangement for the sheetlets....any suggestions?

          I've seen one micro in person (unrigged) and was impressed with the
          size and design but i want the pilot house for safety and living
          space aboard. My line of work allows me to take months off at a time
          for whatever low budget adventure i can sceme and to date has
          involved costal cruising, cycling cross country and thru hiking the
          appalachian trail. I'm sure there will be days i don't like the
          pilothouse but i know i'll end up needing it and would rather do it
          right the first time than having to put a saw to my carefully
          completed micro at a later date.

          I notice you gravitate towards the LM, I love it but I believe for
          me it's a bit more boat than i really need, my garage doors could'nt
          be shut and my subaru would not be happy towing that beautiful beast
          of a bolger box. Then of course there are the added costs and
          complexities of the construction, trailer and rigging that have
          shyed me away from the LM.

          Glad to hear your thoughts on some of those modifications expecially
          with the bow vent and bow steps.

          About the transom......do you believe 2hp is insufficient to push
          the micro with high windage (pilothouse) against a stiff headwind?
          Was trying to stick with the 2hp honda because i've got one with
          only about a dozen hours on it. Doh! much more expensive for the 5hp
          or 9.9

          Thanks,
          Jason
        • strika62
          Jason, ... It ... Strika says: OK, but it sounds like extra work... ... Strika says: Great! I wish I had done that as well... ... the ... Strika says: The
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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            Jason,

            I built my micro three years ago. Here are my thoughts:

            >
            > Transom- i want to put an arch the same radius as the cuddy deck
            > over the transom, strickly too please my eye. I plan on using a 2hp
            > honda and there should be plenty of clearance for tilting the
            > outboard. I've seen pictures of quite a few micros with this mod.
            It
            > may make it a little tougher to exit the boat via the stern but i'm
            > ok with that. Any problems i'm not taking into account.

            Strika says: OK, but it sounds like extra work...
            >
            > Rudder- going to beef it up and add a ss shoe down the whole bottom
            > for protection.

            Strika says: Great! I wish I had done that as well...

            > Bow Vent- I'm under impression that bolger did away with this on
            the
            > long micro, is this the case?.....I'd like to keep the bunks as dry
            > as possible and have considered a dorade box if it's a bit stuffy
            > without the bow vent?

            Strika says: The bow event on my micro has proved invaluable as both
            a ventilation and light source. I wouldn't be without it...

            Keep us posted...

            Strika
          • Bruce Hallman
            ... Consider omiting the cross bar above the motor well at the stern. [or at least, don t install it until late in the building process.] I have climbed in and
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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              --- smithriverranger wrote:
              > Transom
              Consider omiting the cross bar above
              the motor well at the stern.
              [or at least, don't install it
              until late in the building process.]
              I have climbed in and out of the
              boat 1,000 times using the motor
              mount board on the transom as a step,
              a cross piece would have made that
              impossible. The cross bar isn't
              needed for structural reasons IMO.

              > Bow Vent

              I already believe that the through
              cabin ventilation that a bow vent
              allows keeps the inside of the
              cabin dry. Omitting it seems
              like asking for more dampness
              not less. I get a surprising
              amount of condensation over
              night that evaporates quickly
              each morning, with the help
              of that cross-ventilation.

              > Offset bow slots-

              The bow transom holes serve
              as boarding steps, and for
              me at least, offsetting
              the steps works better to
              match my right and left feet.

              > Rig- Sprit or navigator chinese gaff?
              > I'd go withm the chinese gaff

              I would stick with the tried and
              tested sprit rigfor a regular Micro.
              The *much* more complex Chinese
              Gaff is due to the need to reef
              and operate the sails from inside
              the cabin with the Navigator.

              > Navigator but i find bolger's design UGLY,

              <grin> I won't take that personally. My
              neighbor's wife told me it looked 'cute'!
            • strika62
              I think 2 HP is a little small. I have a 4 HP and wish I had 6... Strika ... increadibly ... time ... could nt ... beast ... expecially ... 5hp
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                I think 2 HP is a little small. I have a 4 HP and wish I had 6...

                Strika

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger" <jasonstancil@h...>
                wrote:
                > I need to order the navigator companion plans as this may save me
                > quite a bit of headache. I don't have a fax so i've been
                increadibly
                > lazy about contacting PB&F.
                >
                > As far as the navigator rig goes i'd like to have the main and
                > mizzen match. I think it would be rather simple to design a well
                > balanced chinese gaff mizzen but not so sure i could work out a
                > suitable arrangement for the sheetlets....any suggestions?
                >
                > I've seen one micro in person (unrigged) and was impressed with the
                > size and design but i want the pilot house for safety and living
                > space aboard. My line of work allows me to take months off at a
                time
                > for whatever low budget adventure i can sceme and to date has
                > involved costal cruising, cycling cross country and thru hiking the
                > appalachian trail. I'm sure there will be days i don't like the
                > pilothouse but i know i'll end up needing it and would rather do it
                > right the first time than having to put a saw to my carefully
                > completed micro at a later date.
                >
                > I notice you gravitate towards the LM, I love it but I believe for
                > me it's a bit more boat than i really need, my garage doors
                could'nt
                > be shut and my subaru would not be happy towing that beautiful
                beast
                > of a bolger box. Then of course there are the added costs and
                > complexities of the construction, trailer and rigging that have
                > shyed me away from the LM.
                >
                > Glad to hear your thoughts on some of those modifications
                expecially
                > with the bow vent and bow steps.
                >
                > About the transom......do you believe 2hp is insufficient to push
                > the micro with high windage (pilothouse) against a stiff headwind?
                > Was trying to stick with the 2hp honda because i've got one with
                > only about a dozen hours on it. Doh! much more expensive for the
                5hp
                > or 9.9
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Jason
              • quailrunmeadows
                One rule of thumb is one hp per 400 lbs, which sets you up nicely for headwinds, deep draft, loads of friends, being in too much hurry, etc. Of course, a lot
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                  One rule of thumb is one hp per 400 lbs, which sets you up nicely for
                  headwinds, deep draft, loads of friends, being in too much hurry,
                  etc. Of course, a lot depends on hull design, draft, windage, and
                  how fast you want to go. I doubt 2 hp will get to hull speed in a
                  navigator in a stiff headwind, but you'll probably go forward.
                  Reuell Parker routinely specs much less than 1 hp/400 lb in his
                  sharpie designs, but they drive very easily.

                  Note also that your 2 hp does not have f-n-r, which is very, very
                  nice to have. I love my honda 2 hp, but love my 5 hp more.

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "strika62" <strika62@y...> wrote:
                  > I think 2 HP is a little small. I have a 4 HP and wish I had 6...
                  >
                  > Strika
                  >
                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger"
                  <jasonstancil@h...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > I need to order the navigator companion plans as this may save me
                  > > quite a bit of headache. I don't have a fax so i've been
                  > increadibly
                  > > lazy about contacting PB&F.
                  > >
                  > > As far as the navigator rig goes i'd like to have the main and
                  > > mizzen match. I think it would be rather simple to design a well
                  > > balanced chinese gaff mizzen but not so sure i could work out a
                  > > suitable arrangement for the sheetlets....any suggestions?
                  > >
                  > > I've seen one micro in person (unrigged) and was impressed with
                  the
                  > > size and design but i want the pilot house for safety and living
                  > > space aboard. My line of work allows me to take months off at a
                  > time
                  > > for whatever low budget adventure i can sceme and to date has
                  > > involved costal cruising, cycling cross country and thru hiking
                  the
                  > > appalachian trail. I'm sure there will be days i don't like the
                  > > pilothouse but i know i'll end up needing it and would rather do
                  it
                  > > right the first time than having to put a saw to my carefully
                  > > completed micro at a later date.
                  > >
                  > > I notice you gravitate towards the LM, I love it but I believe
                  for
                  > > me it's a bit more boat than i really need, my garage doors
                  > could'nt
                  > > be shut and my subaru would not be happy towing that beautiful
                  > beast
                  > > of a bolger box. Then of course there are the added costs and
                  > > complexities of the construction, trailer and rigging that have
                  > > shyed me away from the LM.
                  > >
                  > > Glad to hear your thoughts on some of those modifications
                  > expecially
                  > > with the bow vent and bow steps.
                  > >
                  > > About the transom......do you believe 2hp is insufficient to push
                  > > the micro with high windage (pilothouse) against a stiff
                  headwind?
                  > > Was trying to stick with the 2hp honda because i've got one with
                  > > only about a dozen hours on it. Doh! much more expensive for the
                  > 5hp
                  > > or 9.9
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > Jason
                • Derek Waters
                  Jason, Bow steps / freeing ports: Re-boarding a Micro from in the water after a swim (intentional or otherwise) , you ll find the topsides tower over you. The
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                    Jason,

                    Bow steps / freeing ports:
                    Re-boarding a Micro from in the water after a swim (intentional or
                    otherwise) , you'll find the topsides tower over you. The bow transom ports
                    act as handholds. A loop of rope attached inside the bow acts as a foothold
                    to allow you climb out of the water. When not in use, the rope loop is
                    simply tucked out of the way. Think of it as a basic safety feature. We
                    never board after a swim any other way. (Long Micro has a tabernacle'd
                    mainmast - the bow is _all_ hole :)

                    The ability to stand at water level outside the boat has been useful in
                    other ways, too; when boarding from a dinghy, when picking up a mooring on a
                    buoy, &c.

                    Splash from the forward vent / window has not been an issue for us. Crashing
                    through short chop with the bow throwing spray ten feet or so into the air
                    there has been no discernable ingress of moisture. Obviously, any hole in a
                    boat can allow water in under some conditions. If it became an issue,
                    dropping a spray cap over the vent would deal with it.

                    2HP will only deal with flat water / no current / low wind conditions.

                    An arched transom cap is easy to construct. You can fabricate the transom
                    with a curved top and then laminate the curved cap onto the boat. We have
                    not found it necessary to board the boat over the stern from the water and
                    the curved top is never in the way at a dock. Water runs off it nicely. If
                    you are planning for future expansion, I'd recommend giong and measuring the
                    motor you are considering - I've heard of at least one builder who relied on
                    the motor manufacturers published dimensions and then found his new motor
                    would not fit.

                    The Chinese Gaff main pros: Gives substantially more overall sail area,
                    which Micro can use if you do much light air sailing. From 119 sq ft to 176
                    sq ft on the main. The reefing is quick and stress free, encouraging its
                    use. The mast is shorter. See "103 sailing rigs" for a full discussion.
                    The Chinese Gaff main cons: Lots more cordage and blocks. Slightly slower to
                    rig and take down (although much better than I had expected). More rigging
                    bits to make or buy.

                    With the high peaked gaff when rigged both sails look roughly triangular -
                    more so than on the sailplan, IMO. The price of the extra plans sheet may be
                    $35, but the figure $50 is what I recall.

                    cheers
                    Derek
                  • Peter Lenihan
                    ... wrote: before i get ... Jason, You can never be too involved with boatbuilding!Think about it,you will be taking essentially a pile of wood and creating
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger" <jasonstancil@h...>
                      wrote:
                      before i get
                      > too invovled.

                      Jason,

                      You can never be "too involved" with boatbuilding!Think about
                      it,you will be taking essentially a pile of wood and creating with
                      your very own hands a working thing of beauty which will carry you
                      and yours over magical waters to great
                      adventures.Nevertheless,however small and private these adventures
                      may in fact be you must not let this special time of building pass
                      you by un-appreciated!You will be creating in a world and time when
                      most things are produced,en masse, for us in some other part of the
                      world. You will be exposed to and challenged by parts of yourself
                      perhaps long forgotten or newly discovered! It will transform you in
                      many happy ways! Celebrate it! Enjoy it! But leave the moaning chair
                      for once the building is well under way :-)




                      >
                      > Transom- i want to put an arch the same radius as the cuddy deck
                      > over the transom I plan on using a 2hp
                      > honda



                      The Transom arch is a nice touch.If you are up to the extra work go
                      for it,otherwise it is not essential to the design.Your engine of
                      choice may prove to be too small when you might need it the most.A 5
                      would be a better choice if you can afford it.


                      >
                      > Rudder- going to beef it up and add a ss shoe down the whole bottom
                      > for protection. I'm also thinking of doing it like a long micro
                      with
                      > the "wings". Draw backs?


                      The full length s/s shoe is really over kill( and I thought I was the
                      only one guilty of this!). The end-plate on the rudder can't hurt,I
                      suppose,but you'll be left to your own devices for figuring out how
                      to install one and on such a small boat with low speed potential,it
                      is difficult to imagine any improvement being measurable over the
                      basic rudder as designed.Again,your boat,your call.




                      >
                      > Bow Vent- I'm under impression that bolger did away with this on
                      the
                      > long micro, is this the case?.....I'd like to keep the bunks as dry
                      > as possible and have considered a dorade box if it's a bit stuffy
                      > without the bow vent?


                      Bow vents work fine,keep air flowing when all else is battened down
                      and will not spit water,ever,if you install a screen on the outside.



                      >
                      > Cockpit- Bolger designed this for simplicity and i believe there is
                      > room for improvement at the cost of building ease. Thinking of a
                      > cockpit coaming(sp?)and maybe lowering the seats a few inches.....



                      It is a tradional cockpit setup from another era and works
                      surprisingly well once you get over the habit of always sitting with
                      your feet lower then your buttocks.Beyond that,it does enclose a
                      cavernous hold,is totally self draining, and will,in the ultimate
                      knockdown scenario,provide a ton(literally) of reserve bouyancy if
                      the hatch is secured.



                      The pilot house thing seems like
                      > a big deal but it's actually only a cosmetic change of what bolger
                      > has already designed.


                      Sounds like a fun challenge.Hope you track all your changes,as they
                      are made, so that they all come together to work as one integrated
                      whole.Have you drawn up plans of how you wish to do your pilot house
                      and how this will effect the other structures?


                      Sincerely,

                      Peter Lenihan
                    • bruce@hallman.org
                      When I asked Phil Bolger about his recommended motor size for a Micro Navigator he wrote that a 4 hp four stroke would be good.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                        When I asked Phil Bolger about his recommended
                        motor size for a Micro Navigator he wrote
                        that a 4 hp four stroke would be good.
                      • Nels
                        ... could nt ... beast ... Hi Jason, My original plan was to build a MICRO and I have the plans. Then while enjoying it I had plans for a larger part-time
                        Message 11 of 11 , Mar 30, 2004
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "smithriverranger" <jasonstancil@h...>
                          > I notice you gravitate towards the LM, I love it but I believe for
                          > me it's a bit more boat than i really need, my garage doors
                          could'nt
                          > be shut and my subaru would not be happy towing that beautiful
                          beast
                          > of a bolger box. Then of course there are the added costs and
                          > complexities of the construction, trailer and rigging that have
                          > shyed me away from the LM.

                          Hi Jason,

                          My original plan was to build a MICRO and I have the plans. Then
                          while enjoying it I had plans for a larger part-time liveaboard like
                          AS29 or even FIJI. Then LESTAT came along and when I saw the size I
                          realized that a LONG MICRO with a Glass house could be used as a part-
                          time liveaboard and still be trailerable. That extra 4 feet amidships
                          means that one can still have a pilothouse and a small cockpit, and a
                          double bed. Yet you still have the basic simplicity that the MICRO
                          series excel at in my view. Cost comparison and complexity, between a
                          LM and AS29 or FIJI are not even in the same reality. Then if I
                          decide I don't want to live aboard as much as I thought, I don't have
                          a huge investment to take a potential hit on.

                          LONG MICRO is still a significant step up from MICRO, especially if
                          you have a small tow vehicle. I am fortunate to have a full sized
                          Chevy van with a turbo diesel that I use as a work van.

                          Cheers, Nels
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