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  • bianco@asi.it
    Hi Gregg - I discovered the Bolger newsgroup by chance and here I am to subscribe! As you now, I became more and more intrigued by PCB s designs in the last
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 20, 1999
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      Hi Gregg - I discovered the Bolger newsgroup by chance and here I am to
      subscribe! As you now, I became more and more intrigued by PCB's
      designs in the last few months. I'm sure that your competence (and
      boatbuilding efficiency!) will be an encouragement to all of us. Best -
      Pippo


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    • GHC
      Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro?? Gregg ... eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 20, 1999
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        Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??

        Gregg

        At 07:09 AM 7/20/99 -0700, you wrote:
        >Hi Gregg - I discovered the Bolger newsgroup by chance and here I am to
        >subscribe! As you now, I became more and more intrigued by PCB's
        >designs in the last few months. I'm sure that your competence (and
        >boatbuilding efficiency!) will be an encouragement to all of us. Best -
        >Pippo
        >
        >
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      • bianco@asi.it
        ... Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I m having so many problems in finding a mast for my current project that I m probably going to abandon it and start
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 21, 1999
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          > Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??
          >
          > Gregg

          Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I'm having so many problems in
          finding a mast for my current project that I'm probably going to
          abandon it and start on a Bolger's Bobcat. The specified mast for my
          Caravelle is so tall that I cannot adapt anything like a FJ or a 420
          rig. Nobody in Italy is willing to supply such a mast. I can only get
          it custom-made from a French company but it would cost 2 times the cost
          of the complete boat (say 1000+ bucks...). SO I decided to consider the
          current hull as my test run (a bit expensive though), and choose a
          simpler-to-rig design. After the Bobcat is done, my next boat will be
          the fantastic sheet-ply Chebacco. I'm recomputing the bill of materials
          for the Bobcat because the plywood here comes in 5'x10' sheets as
          opposed to your 4'x8'. I should be ok with 6 of our sheets. I'm
          probably not going to use our 6 mm ply, whose real thickness is 5.5 mm.
          From Dynamite's book on the Bobcat, your 1/4 inch plywood looks
          substantially thicker than 5.5 mm, so I'm going to use 8 mm (5/16")
          plywood. Any thoughts on this? Best, Pippo


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        • Richard Spelling
          Pippo, how are things? If nobody will supply the mast you have basicaly two options. Build one yourself or change the rig. Personaly, I d make the mast myself.
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 21, 1999
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            Pippo, how are things?

            If nobody will supply the mast you have basicaly two options. Build one
            yourself or
            change the rig.

            Personaly, I'd make the mast myself. It's not to much trouble to glue up a
            stick and shave
            it down into a mast.... or you could be creative like Gregg and use veralam
            or flagpoles...

            (then again, I'd probably change the sloop rig to a gaff-cat, with
            leeboards.... but then it wouldn't be the caravelle...)

            bianco@... wrote:

            > > Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??
            > >
            > > Gregg
            >
            > Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I'm having so many problems in
            > finding a mast for my current project that I'm probably going to
            > abandon it and start on a Bolger's Bobcat. The specified mast for my
            > Caravelle is so tall that I cannot adapt anything like a FJ or a 420
            > rig. Nobody in Italy is willing to supply such a mast. I can only get
            > it custom-made from a French company but it would cost 2 times the cost
            > of the complete boat (say 1000+ bucks...). SO I decided to consider the
            > current hull as my test run (a bit expensive though), and choose a
            > simpler-to-rig design. After the Bobcat is done, my next boat will be
            > the fantastic sheet-ply Chebacco. I'm recomputing the bill of materials
            > for the Bobcat because the plywood here comes in 5'x10' sheets as
            > opposed to your 4'x8'. I should be ok with 6 of our sheets. I'm
            > probably not going to use our 6 mm ply, whose real thickness is 5.5 mm.
            > >From Dynamite's book on the Bobcat, your 1/4 inch plywood looks
            > substantially thicker than 5.5 mm, so I'm going to use 8 mm (5/16")
            > plywood. Any thoughts on this? Best, Pippo
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Was the salesman clueless?
            > Productopia has the answers.
            > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/555
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          • plea@entergy.com
            Folks, The latest WoodenBoat has a great article on an improved method for gluing up spars. The author has reported that it is so easy that I am encouraged to
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 21, 1999
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              Folks,

              The latest WoodenBoat has a great article on an improved method for
              gluing up spars. The author has reported that it is so easy that I am
              encouraged to glue up hollow -- next time.

              In my case, for the boat under construction (modifed Bolger June Bug,
              see earlier post) I have already acquired a suitable douglas fir 2x12
              (with small tight knots, unsuitable material to glue up hollow) to glue
              for the solid mast -- and it will not be too heavy for me to step.

              Phil Lea
              Russellville, Arkansas

              <@...> wrote:
              > Pippo, how are things?
              >
              > If nobody will supply the mast you have basicaly two options. Build
              one
              > yourself or
              > change the rig. Personaly, I'd make the mast myself. It's not to
              much
              > trouble to glue up a stick and shave it down into a mast.... o
              > bianco@... wrote:
              >
              > > > Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??
              > > >
              > > > Gregg
              > >
              > > Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I'm having so many problems
              in
              > > finding a mast for my current project that I'm probably going to
              > > abandon it and start on a Bolger's Bobcat. The specified mast for my
              > > Caravelle is so tall that I cannot adapt anything like a FJ or a 420
              > > rig. Nobody in Italy is willing to supply such a mast. I can only
              get
              > > it custom-made from a French company but it would cost 2 times the
              cost
              > > of the complete boat (say 1000+ bucks...). SO I decided to consider
              the
              > > current hull as my test run (a bit expensive though), and choose a
              > > simpler-to-rig design. After the Bobcat is done, my next boat will
              be
              > > the fantastic sheet-ply Chebacco. I'm recomputing the bill of
              materials
              > > for the Bobcat because the plywood here comes in 5'x10' sheets as
              > > opposed to your 4'x8'. I should be ok with 6 of our sheets. I'm
              > > probably not going to use our 6 mm ply, whose real thickness is 5.5
              mm.
              > > >From Dynamite's book on the Bobcat, your 1/4 inch plywood looks
              > > substantially thicker than 5.5 mm, so I'm going to use 8 mm (5/16")
              > > plywood. Any thoughts on this? Best, Pippo



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            • Foster Price
              Hello Pippo & Phil - and an observation on ply thickness Most of PCB s boats are extremely robustly designed, and nothing kills a boat more than excess weight.
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 21, 1999
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                Hello Pippo & Phil - and an observation on ply thickness

                Most of PCB's boats are extremely robustly designed, and nothing kills a boat more than excess weight.

                I would go for the lighter ply myself, and put a few "doulblers" where there will be high stress eg where the mast goes through the deck. I built a "Sparkler" (PCB's simplified "Lightning") using these concepts and it was very sucesful. I used 9mm (3/8) where he specified 12mm (1/2) and 2x9mm where he specified 2x12mm.

                Regards - Foster

                ----------
                From: plea@...
                Sent: Thursday, 22 July 1999 3:30 am
                To: bolger@egroups.com
                Subject: [bolger] Re: Bobcat and plywood thickness

                Folks,

                The latest WoodenBoat has a great article on an improved method for
                gluing up spars. The author has reported that it is so easy that I am
                encouraged to glue up hollow -- next time.

                In my case, for the boat under construction (modifed Bolger June Bug,
                see earlier post) I have already acquired a suitable douglas fir 2x12
                (with small tight knots, unsuitable material to glue up hollow) to glue
                for the solid mast -- and it will not be too heavy for me to step.

                Phil Lea
                Russellville, Arkansas

                <@...> wrote:
                > Pippo, how are things?
                >
                > If nobody will supply the mast you have basicaly two options. Build
                one
                > yourself or
                > change the rig. Personaly, I'd make the mast myself. It's not to
                much
                > trouble to glue up a stick and shave it down into a mast.... o
                > bianco@... wrote:
                >
                > > > Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??
                > > >
                > > > Gregg
                > >
                > > Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I'm having so many problems
                in
                > > finding a mast for my current project that I'm probably going to
                > > abandon it and start on a Bolger's Bobcat. The specified mast for my
                > > Caravelle is so tall that I cannot adapt anything like a FJ or a 420
                > > rig. Nobody in Italy is willing to supply such a mast. I can only
                get
                > > it custom-made from a French company but it would cost 2 times the
                cost
                > > of the complete boat (say 1000+ bucks...). SO I decided to consider
                the
                > > current hull as my test run (a bit expensive though), and choose a
                > > simpler-to-rig design. After the Bobcat is done, my next boat will
                be
                > > the fantastic sheet-ply Chebacco. I'm recomputing the bill of
                materials
                > > for the Bobcat because the plywood here comes in 5'x10' sheets as
                > > opposed to your 4'x8'. I should be ok with 6 of our sheets. I'm
                > > probably not going to use our 6 mm ply, whose real thickness is 5.5
                mm.
                > > >From Dynamite's book on the Bobcat, your 1/4 inch plywood looks
                > > substantially thicker than 5.5 mm, so I'm going to use 8 mm (5/16")
                > > plywood. Any thoughts on this? Best, Pippo



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              • bianco@asi.it
                wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=44 ... kills a boat more than excess weight. ... where there
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 22, 1999
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                  <01bed41e.9dfd8ea-@price-pc> wrote:
                  original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=44
                  > Hello Pippo & Phil - and an observation on ply thickness
                  >
                  > Most of PCB's boats are extremely robustly designed, and nothing
                  kills a boat more than excess weight.
                  >
                  > I would go for the lighter ply myself, and put a few "doulblers"
                  where there will be high stress eg where the mast goes through the
                  deck. I built a "Sparkler" (PCB's simplified "Lightning") using these
                  concepts and it was very sucesful. I used 9mm (3/8) where he specified
                  12mm (1/2) and 2x9mm where he specified 2x12mm.
                  >
                  > Regards - Foster

                  Hi Foster
                  I understand that the "default" plywood intended to be used on the
                  Instant Boats is fir. There's no such plywood available here, so I'm
                  going to use marine okoume, which should be 30% less dense than fir.
                  Doing so, I should stay within the right weight, but using 5-plies
                  plywood instead a 3-ply. PCB, for his Micro, for instance, specifies
                  either 1/4" or 3/8". Well, I can't imagine to build a hefty boat like
                  Micro using 5.5 mm, 3-plies plywood. The boat would be flimsy. My
                  Caravelle hull has been built with that plywood and, even if all the
                  seams are glassed with biaxial tape and epoxy (3 layers of 12 oz at the
                  keel), it is very flimsy. Best, Pippo
                • GHC
                  Pippo, Why don t you build your own mast? There s a good article on the 8-stave technique in the last Wooden Boat magazine. I don t know much about the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 22, 1999
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                    Pippo,

                    Why don't you build your own mast? There's a good article on the 8-stave
                    technique in the last Wooden Boat magazine.

                    I don't know much about the bobcat, but I don't think it's a big boat. If
                    you have high-quality 5-ply plywood, I could see going thinner. If your
                    plywood is just so-so, I might opt for heavier. Also, what about the
                    intended use? Protected or open water? Do you want it light enough to be
                    dragged up on the beach?

                    Gregg


                    At 12:42 AM 7/21/99 -0700, you wrote:
                    >> Hey Pippo - welcome! Are you working on a Micro??
                    >>
                    >> Gregg
                    >
                    >Hi Gregg. Well, changed my mind again. I'm having so many problems in
                    >finding a mast for my current project that I'm probably going to
                    >abandon it and start on a Bolger's Bobcat. The specified mast for my
                    >Caravelle is so tall that I cannot adapt anything like a FJ or a 420
                    >rig. Nobody in Italy is willing to supply such a mast. I can only get
                    >it custom-made from a French company but it would cost 2 times the cost
                    >of the complete boat (say 1000+ bucks...). SO I decided to consider the
                    >current hull as my test run (a bit expensive though), and choose a
                    >simpler-to-rig design. After the Bobcat is done, my next boat will be
                    >the fantastic sheet-ply Chebacco. I'm recomputing the bill of materials
                    >for the Bobcat because the plywood here comes in 5'x10' sheets as
                    >opposed to your 4'x8'. I should be ok with 6 of our sheets. I'm
                    >probably not going to use our 6 mm ply, whose real thickness is 5.5 mm.
                    >From Dynamite's book on the Bobcat, your 1/4 inch plywood looks
                    >substantially thicker than 5.5 mm, so I'm going to use 8 mm (5/16")
                    >plywood. Any thoughts on this? Best, Pippo
                    >
                    >
                    >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >Was the salesman clueless?
                    >Productopia has the answers.
                    >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/555
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
                    >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • GHC
                    Good point, Pippo - Douglas Fir is among the strongest softwood around (about 12,000 psi in tension). GHC
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jul 22, 1999
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                      Good point, Pippo - Douglas Fir is among the strongest softwood around
                      (about 12,000 psi in tension).

                      GHC

                      At 12:11 AM 7/22/99 -0700, you wrote:
                      >Hi Foster
                      >I understand that the "default" plywood intended to be used on the
                      >Instant Boats is fir. There's no such plywood available here, so I'm
                      >going to use marine okoume, which should be 30% less dense than fir.
                      >Doing so, I should stay within the right weight, but using 5-plies
                      >plywood instead a 3-ply. PCB, for his Micro, for instance, specifies
                      >either 1/4" or 3/8". Well, I can't imagine to build a hefty boat like
                      >Micro using 5.5 mm, 3-plies plywood. The boat would be flimsy. My
                      >Caravelle hull has been built with that plywood and, even if all the
                      >seams are glassed with biaxial tape and epoxy (3 layers of 12 oz at the
                      >keel), it is very flimsy. Best, Pippo>
                    • bianco@asi.it
                      wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=49 ... 8-stave ... Gregg it s going to
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jul 23, 1999
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                        <3.0.1.32.19990722164820.007272b-@...> wrote:
                        original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=49
                        > Pippo,
                        >
                        > Why don't you build your own mast? There's a good article on the
                        8-stave
                        > technique in the last Wooden Boat magazine.

                        Gregg
                        it's going to be a loooong stick. The design specifies a section of
                        55x65 mm
                        and a lenght of 6.35 meters (21'). The sloop rig would need a sailtrack
                        as well, and a gooseneck, and many other jingles. When I started
                        building the hull (easy!), I didn't realize how tricky and hard-to-find
                        that stuff would have had proven to be.

                        > I don't know much about the bobcat, but I don't think it's a big
                        boat. If
                        > you have high-quality 5-ply plywood, I could see going thinner. If
                        your
                        > plywood is just so-so, I might opt for heavier. Also, what about the
                        > intended use? Protected or open water? Do you want it light enough
                        to be
                        > dragged up on the beach?

                        The Bobcat is 12'3" x 6', with a big gaff sail. My 6 mm plywood is
                        actually 5.5 mm thick, 3 plies with a thick core and very thin external
                        veneers. It's 100% 1st quality marine okoume plywood. The 8 mm is 5
                        plies, and the real thickness should be half way between 1/4" and 5/16"
                        (7-7.5 mm). What is the real thickness, and how many plies does it
                        have, of marine fir 1/4" plywood?
                        Best, Pippo
                      • GHC
                        Pippo, Well, I gave in and bought tapered aluminum flagpoles for my schooner - about $200 each... Fir marine ply isn t all that exciting. I suspect it s close
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jul 23, 1999
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                          Pippo,

                          Well, I gave in and bought tapered aluminum flagpoles for my schooner -
                          about $200 each...

                          Fir marine ply isn't all that exciting. I suspect it's close to 1/4", but
                          I don't know. It's 3-ply, probably because fir is so splintery and has
                          flaws, it would be too hard to peel any thinner. All the plies are about
                          the same thickness and it could have some dutchmans (repairs).

                          How about going with the thinner stuff and adding a layer of glass to the
                          outside?

                          Gregg


                          At 12:53 AM 7/23/99 -0700, you wrote:
                          >Gregg
                          >it's going to be a loooong stick. The design specifies a section of
                          >55x65 mm
                          >and a lenght of 6.35 meters (21'). The sloop rig would need a sailtrack
                          >as well, and a gooseneck, and many other jingles. When I started
                          >building the hull (easy!), I didn't realize how tricky and hard-to-find
                          >that stuff would have had proven to be.
                          >
                          >> I don't know much about the bobcat, but I don't think it's a big
                          >boat. If
                          >> you have high-quality 5-ply plywood, I could see going thinner. If
                          >your
                          >> plywood is just so-so, I might opt for heavier. Also, what about the
                          >> intended use? Protected or open water? Do you want it light enough
                          >to be
                          >> dragged up on the beach?
                          >
                          >The Bobcat is 12'3" x 6', with a big gaff sail. My 6 mm plywood is
                          >actually 5.5 mm thick, 3 plies with a thick core and very thin external
                          >veneers. It's 100% 1st quality marine okoume plywood. The 8 mm is 5
                          >plies, and the real thickness should be half way between 1/4" and 5/16"
                          >(7-7.5 mm). What is the real thickness, and how many plies does it
                          >have, of marine fir 1/4" plywood?
                          >Best, Pippo
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                          >
                          >
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                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Foster Price
                          Hello All Pippo Wrote: My 6 mm plywood is actually 5.5 mm thick, 3 plies with a thick core and very thin external veneers. It s 100% 1st quality marine okoume
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jul 25, 1999
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                            Hello All

                            Pippo Wrote:
                            My 6 mm plywood is
                            actually 5.5 mm thick, 3 plies with a thick core and very thin external
                            veneers. It's 100% 1st quality marine okoume plywood. The 8 mm is 5
                            plies, and the real thickness should be half way between 1/4" and 5/16"
                            (7-7.5 mm). What is the real thickness, and how many plies does it
                            have, of marine fir 1/4" plywood?

                            Watch out for plywood that has an extreme difference between the thickness of the plys as it will not be "balanced".

                            By "balance" I mean the plys characteristics in bending along both axis ie longways on the sheet and across. This is really important when building boats that have even the slightest compound curve in the panels. Many bow panels fall into this category and "Bobcat", with her full sections would almost certainly be slightly compound (even though not designed that way).

                            We once planked a large catamaran with very slight compound curves (a Wharram Tiki 38) and it was easy with the ply we used. Others we have talked with had real dificulties using the same plans etc. but different plywood.

                            Lots of factors seem to contribute to "balance" , maybe someone else can comment.

                            Regards - Foster





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