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Light Schooner/scooner?

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  • oceanplodder2003
    I m intrigued by the boat and am toying with putting one together in dear old NZ, shock the locals and all. Has anyone any hard data on performance???
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 27, 2004
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      I'm intrigued by the boat and am toying with putting one together in
      dear old NZ, shock the locals and all.

      Has anyone any hard data on performance??? seaworthiness??? what
      about a small cuddy over the forward cockpit???

      Thanks

      David
    • ghartc
      The LS is fast - 6-7 knots upwind and 10-12 offwind with a little breeze. It is faster on one upwind tack, probably due to the off- center board. It takes a
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 28, 2004
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        The LS is fast - 6-7 knots upwind and 10-12 offwind with a little
        breeze. It is faster on one upwind tack, probably due to the off-
        center board. It takes a good-size crew to sail it fast, but that's
        part of the fun. Lots of strings to pull.

        If I was going to build another, I'd plan on really fancy, deep foils
        in the water to help point. And, I've been looking for a couple
        trapeze sets for the main mast.

        It will capsize as it's really just a huge dinghy. It's so long, it
        tends to poke through motorboat wakes, which end up in the forward
        cockpit. A breakwater or coming/house would be good.

        *I* wouldn't call it seaworthy at all. Then again, guys used to race
        small catamarans 1000 miles in the gulfstream in the Worrell 1000, so
        I guess it depends on whether treading water, oh, 10 miles offshore
        seems problematic or not ;-}

        It's a really neat boat, and if you set it up with some decent foils
        and sails and all, pretty zippy. Definitely shocking.

        Gregg Carlson


        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "oceanplodder2003" <dana-
        tenacity@u...> wrote:
        > I'm intrigued by the boat and am toying with putting one together
        in
        > dear old NZ, shock the locals and all.
        >
        > Has anyone any hard data on performance??? seaworthiness??? what
        > about a small cuddy over the forward cockpit???
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > David
      • David Ryan
        I can t add much to Greg s comments. I love my Light Scooner, but the boat is definitely a hotrod. If you want an easy day out, you need to take a lot of the
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 28, 2004
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          I can't add much to Greg's comments. I love my Light Scooner, but the
          boat is definitely a hotrod. If you want an easy day out, you need to
          take a lot of the sail down (easy enough to do, but seems a pity).
          I've had 9 aboard in a stiff afternoon shorebreeze and the boat still
          planed, (and nearly planed going to weather!) The boat is AMAZING in
          light air, I've been out when the water was barely rippled and
          clocked mine at 4+ knots. These are my favorite conditions for family
          outings. Gentle sailing, but still moves along nicely.

          Don't build the boat if you don't like people paying attention to you
          where ever you go. She looks much better in person than any of the
          photos you've seen online.

          If you do a cuddy, make it removable. You'll need the rail for live
          ballast when you've got her out in a breeze!

          -David




          The LS is fast - 6-7 knots upwind and 10-12 offwind with a little
          breeze. It is faster on one upwind tack, probably due to the off-
          center board. It takes a good-size crew to sail it fast, but that's
          part of the fun. Lots of strings to pull.

          If I was going to build another, I'd plan on really fancy, deep foils
          in the water to help point. And, I've been looking for a couple
          trapeze sets for the main mast.

          It will capsize as it's really just a huge dinghy. It's so long, it
          tends to poke through motorboat wakes, which end up in the forward
          cockpit. A breakwater or coming/house would be good.

          *I* wouldn't call it seaworthy at all. Then again, guys used to race
          small catamarans 1000 miles in the gulfstream in the Worrell 1000, so
          I guess it depends on whether treading water, oh, 10 miles offshore
          seems problematic or not ;-}

          It's a really neat boat, and if you set it up with some decent foils
          and sails and all, pretty zippy. Definitely shocking.

          Gregg Carlson


          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "oceanplodder2003" <dana-
          tenacity@u...> wrote:
          > I'm intrigued by the boat and am toying with putting one together
          in
          > dear old NZ, shock the locals and all.
          >
          > Has anyone any hard data on performance??? seaworthiness??? what
          > about a small cuddy over the forward cockpit???
          >
          > Thanks
          >
          > David



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        • Bruce Hallman
          ... I have been dreaming of the Folding Schooner as a next project, I wonder if the performance is along the same order of magnitude as Light Schooner?
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 28, 2004
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            --- David Ryan wrote:
            > I love my Light
            > Scooner, but the
            > boat is definitely a hotrod.

            I have been dreaming of the
            Folding Schooner as a 'next'
            project, I wonder if the
            performance is along the same
            order of magnitude as Light
            Schooner?
          • pvanderwaart
            ... Based on one sail in a Folding Schooner, and zero sails in a Light Scooner, I would say no. One of the big differences is that the FS lacks the wash decks
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 28, 2004
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              > I have been dreaming of the
              > Folding Schooner as a 'next'
              > project, I wonder if the
              > performance is along the same
              > order of magnitude as Light
              > Schooner?

              Based on one sail in a Folding Schooner, and zero sails in a Light
              Scooner, I would say no. One of the big differences is that the FS
              lacks the wash decks so it's a sit-on-the-bottom proposition. Since
              you can't get the hiking power, the rig has to be a little smaller.

              On the other hand, you do get length, and you do have plenty of sail,
              so there is a wonderful whoosh on a reach.

              My FS sail was the boat's inaugural run, so we were a bit timid, but
              I do wonder if she would be happy in some of the stronger winds the
              LS guys have described. When all is said and done, she's a light
              weight, low-sided, open skiff, and not really a sea-going proposition.

              Peter
            • David Ryan
              Coming at things from the opposite side (no rides in a FS), I d have to guess the Folding Schooner is a little more manageable. Less sail area + longer
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 29, 2004
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                Coming at things from the opposite side (no rides in a FS), I'd have
                to guess the Folding Schooner is a little more manageable. Less sail
                area + longer waterline = less healing.

                I sit on the rail of my teal all the time, (and sometimes fall out!)
                No reason you couldn't do the same thing in an FS. Outfitted with
                plenty of flotation and she'd be no less seaworthy than an LS (not a
                strong statement.)

                Maybe not as fast as an LS, but I'd still bet the Folding Schooner is
                plenty fast.

                YIBB,

                David


                > I have been dreaming of the
                > Folding Schooner as a 'next'
                > project, I wonder if the
                > performance is along the same
                > order of magnitude as Light
                > Schooner?

                Based on one sail in a Folding Schooner, and zero sails in a Light
                Scooner, I would say no. One of the big differences is that the FS
                lacks the wash decks so it's a sit-on-the-bottom proposition. Since
                you can't get the hiking power, the rig has to be a little smaller.

                On the other hand, you do get length, and you do have plenty of sail,
                so there is a wonderful whoosh on a reach.

                My FS sail was the boat's inaugural run, so we were a bit timid, but
                I do wonder if she would be happy in some of the stronger winds the
                LS guys have described. When all is said and done, she's a light
                weight, low-sided, open skiff, and not really a sea-going proposition.

                Peter



                Bolger rules!!!
                - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                Fax: (978) 282-1349
                - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


                Yahoo! Groups Links

                To visit your group on the web, go to:
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/

                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                --

                C.E.P.
                415 W.46th Street
                New York, New York 10036
                http://www.crumblingempire.com
                Mobile (646) 325-8325
                Office (212) 247-0296
              • oceanplodder2003
                Thanks to all those who replied to my initial query. I like the idea of fast, hot rod etc ( my wimpy 2nd choice was to just buy an old hobie, this project
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 29, 2004
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                  Thanks to all those who replied to my initial query. I like the idea
                  of fast, hot rod etc ( my wimpy 2nd choice was to just buy an old
                  hobie, this project sounds like more fun).

                  I'll probably do the forward cuddy thing as conditions where i'll be
                  living dictates it--- I'm about to leave the sunny shores of the US
                  and return to the homeland. Been cruising with the family on a 45 ft
                  ketch for six years and can't face the thought of being back home
                  boatless.

                  One thing is I like to sail with less than 9 people aboard, any ideas
                  on a water ballast systems so I could go fast without buying out the
                  local deli for enough sandwiches?

                  Wonder if I'd have the only LS in NZ?

                  Thanks again

                  David
                • Chris Stewart
                  Greg, Does the 2 hp motor push her anywhere close to hull speed? I don t have (and realistically, probably don t want) a good-sized crew, but a light schooner
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 1 4:22 PM
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                    Greg,

                    Does the 2 hp motor push her anywhere close to hull speed? I don't
                    have (and realistically, probably don't want) a good-sized crew, but
                    a light schooner with a tent or very light cuddy, and no spars,
                    strikes me as an interesting minimalist power sharpie camp cruiser.
                    What do you think?

                    Chris Stewart

                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ghartc" <ghartc@s...> wrote:
                    > The LS is fast - 6-7 knots upwind and 10-12 offwind with a little
                    > breeze. It is faster on one upwind tack, probably due to the off-
                    > center board. It takes a good-size crew to sail it fast, but
                    that's
                    > part of the fun. Lots of strings to pull.
                  • ghartc
                    Chris, Good question...I *think* I get about 5 or 6 knots under 2 hp horsepower (it s been awhile). I think it would row well, too. Yes, I think it would make
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 1 6:24 PM
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                      Chris,

                      Good question...I *think* I get about 5 or 6 knots under 2 hp
                      horsepower (it's been awhile). I think it would row well, too.

                      Yes, I think it would make a great camp cruiser. I don't know why
                      you'd leave the masts behind, though, seems like an easily reefed rig
                      might be a better solution for shorthanding. In fact, it sails well
                      under jib and reefed main (or swap main with the smaller foresail?).

                      Without your rigs - how are you going to set those slick boom tents?
                      I have anchor lights on both masts - you gotta have that!

                      Gregg

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Stewart" <stewtone@m...> wrote:
                      > Does the 2 hp motor push her anywhere close to hull speed? I don't
                      > have (and realistically, probably don't want) a good-sized crew,
                      but
                      > a light schooner with a tent or very light cuddy, and no spars,
                      > strikes me as an interesting minimalist power sharpie camp cruiser.
                      > What do you think?
                      >
                      > Chris Stewart
                    • Chris Stewart
                      Gregg, Wasn t thinking of leaving them behind, just not making them in the first place. Tent would use replacement poles from small dome tent and anchor light
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 1 7:42 PM
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                        Gregg,

                        Wasn't thinking of leaving them behind, just not making them in the
                        first place. Tent would use replacement poles from small dome tent
                        and anchor light would be powerboat 360 degree stern light on tall
                        (54") pole.

                        From what everyone says about the sailing qualities of the light
                        schooner, however, the main reason for not building one as a power
                        sharpie is "what a shame."

                        Oh, well, lots more pondering even before getting to planning stage.
                        Thanks for your response.

                        Chris Stewart

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ghartc" <ghartc@s...> wrote:
                        > Chris,
                        >
                        > Good question...I *think* I get about 5 or 6 knots under 2 hp
                        > horsepower (it's been awhile). I think it would row well, too.
                        >
                        > Yes, I think it would make a great camp cruiser. I don't know why
                        > you'd leave the masts behind, though, seems like an easily reefed
                        rig
                        > might be a better solution for shorthanding. In fact, it sails
                        well
                        > under jib and reefed main (or swap main with the smaller foresail?).
                        >
                        > Without your rigs - how are you going to set those slick boom
                        tents?
                        > I have anchor lights on both masts - you gotta have that!
                        >
                        > Gregg
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Stewart" <stewtone@m...>
                        wrote:
                        > > Does the 2 hp motor push her anywhere close to hull speed? I
                        don't
                        > > have (and realistically, probably don't want) a good-sized crew,
                        > but
                        > > a light schooner with a tent or very light cuddy, and no spars,
                        > > strikes me as an interesting minimalist power sharpie camp
                        cruiser.
                        > > What do you think?
                        > >
                        > > Chris Stewart
                      • fountainb@switch.aust.com
                        ... I am not sure I get the folding scooner. The light scooner, while very long, is also light and shallow and I wouldn t have thought it would be too much of
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 2 9:39 PM
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                          Bruce Hallman wrote:
                          > I have been dreaming of the
                          > Folding Schooner as a 'next'
                          > project, I wonder if the
                          > performance is along the same
                          > order of magnitude as Light
                          > Schooner?

                          I am not sure I get the folding scooner. The light scooner, while
                          very long, is also light and shallow and I wouldn't have thought
                          it would be too much of a bear to trailer or launch. Folding and
                          unfolding the FS sounds like a bit of a trial however.

                          Paul Day chose the FS because he has to take it bush bashing
                          to reach the only navigable water in Kalgoorlie, but for most of
                          us I would think the LS would be a lot easier.

                          Perhaps it is just the entertainment value of a boat that folds in half?

                          Bruce Fountain
                          Senior Software Engineer
                          Union Switch & Signal
                          Perth, Western Australia
                        • Bruce Hallman
                          ... Yes, of course! I get a similar kick explaining to perplexed bystanders the holes cut in the bow transom of my Micro. Also, I have room to store a Folding
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 3 7:24 AM
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                            --- fountainb wrote:
                            > I am not sure I get the folding scooner.
                            ...
                            > Perhaps it is just the entertainment value
                            > of a boat that folds in half?

                            Yes, of course! I get a similar kick
                            explaining to perplexed bystanders the
                            holes cut in the bow transom of my Micro.

                            Also, I have room to store a Folding
                            Schooner on my driveway, but a Light
                            Schooner would not fit.

                            From what I have read, the Folding
                            Schooner seems a bit less likely
                            to capsize than a Light Schooner.

                            Also, I am figuring, the Folding Schooner
                            would make a better 'camping platform'
                            than a Light Schooner.
                          • pauldayau
                            ... people who were almost impressed until it happened1 ... too right! we even camp in itin the driveway at home. cheers paul
                            Message 13 of 13 , Mar 8 3:10 AM
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                              > ...
                              > > Perhaps it is just the entertainment value
                              > > of a boat that folds in half?
                              > lots of fun when the chainblock jams up on the boat ramp. lots of
                              people who were almost impressed until it happened1
                              > >
                              > Also, I am figuring, the Folding Schooner
                              > would make a better 'camping platform'
                              > than a Light Schooner.
                              too right! we even camp in itin the driveway at home.
                              cheers paul
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