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RE: [bolger] Re: water ballast

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  • David Romasco
    The only one I m sure Welsford uses water ballast in is his Light Dory; he fills up a 10 litre plastic jerrycan with water and keeps it on a short line. He
    Message 1 of 47 , Feb 1, 2004
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      The only one I'm sure Welsford uses water ballast in is his Light Dory; he
      fills up a 10 litre plastic jerrycan with water and keeps it on a short
      line. He tosses the water bottle to the bow or stern (depending on what
      trim seems appropriate for the sea conditions), and retrieves it with the
      line. I'm familiar with the Hartley line (even have a set of plans for
      their 18' launch); very nice boats indeed! I've used a Macgregor 26X (water
      ballast, moderate rig, 50HP Honda!) and the boat was skittery running as a
      ballast-less powerboat, but settled down very nicely when we opened the
      flood valves and started wallowing along. Word of advice: don't run the
      slalom course at full throttle with no ballast in these things!

      Sounds like you've got the right idea for LESTAT. I really LIKE the idea of
      inflatable ballast, and look forward to hearing how it works out.....



      From: Nels [mailto:arvent@...]
      Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:38 PM
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [bolger] Re: water ballast

      I believe you are familiar with some of John Welsford's designs?
      Which ones of his use water ballest? I recall many years ago that
      there were a series of trailer sailers from NZ that used water
      ballest and named "Hartley Trailer Sailers" Do you recall those
      designs. They were multi chine stitch and glue constrution as well.
      Very advanced for their time.

      Also Chuck Leinweber has built a Michalak design with water ballest
      tanks and loves it.

      Lots of choices for everyone.

      I plan to use water ballest and additional lead in LESTAT - in the
      form of jugs of fresh water and lead acid batteries. As well as
      additional floatation/ballest using an air mattress.

      Cheers Nels

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    • oneillparker
      Free surface effect? I don t follow. Nor did I say anything about water ballast sloshing around in the bilge, because you re right, sloshing water does
      Message 47 of 47 , Feb 1, 2004
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        Free surface effect? I don't follow. Nor did I say anything about
        water ballast 'sloshing around in the bilge,' because you're right,
        sloshing water does nothing for righting moment - but neither does
        water ballast in a bilge filled with sloshing water. picture those
        plastic jugs of water 'ballast' tied with string to a frame member in
        the bilge of a skiff half filled with water. The jugs meader around
        at neutral bounancy (disregarding the jug itself) contributing zero
        to stability until the boat is heeled enough to bring a jug out of
        the water.

        But in a dry bilge where the water in the jugs no longer has to
        displace it's own volume in water before it acts to weigh down the
        hull the jug is continually pressing against the bottom of the hull,
        weighing the boat down, adding to stability.

        I think your statement that it depends on how you "draw the envelope"
        is dead on. In a given boat, whether ballast in put in the boat or
        tacked on outside the boat has the potential to make a huge
        difference depending on the density of the ballast, and can actually
        contribute nothing to stability (water) or even give negative
        stabilty (foam) because tacking on ballast outside a given hull in
        effect adds to the overall volume of the hull. Placeing the same
        ballast inside the hull makes the boat float deeper, but doesn't
        change the shape of the boat - no matter what the displacement of the
        ballast itself - thus potentially adding to stability depending where
        it is placed.

        On a boat STILL ON PAPER, the distinctions between outside and inside
        water ballast can be less clear depending on the priorities of the
        designer, because one way or the other room has to be found for the
        ballast. If the boat has to be given more volume in order to add
        ballast without compromising other priorities (like headroom) then
        the distinction between 'inside' and 'outside' ballast - as far as
        the designer is concerned - becomes fuzzy - because if to make room
        for the ballast the designer has to deepen the keel or harden the
        bilge - thus changing the overall volume - the designer is, in
        effect, tacking on the ballast 'outside' despite the fact that the
        builder will actually be placing the ballast 'inside.'

        John O'Neill

        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Bell" <smallboatdesigner@m...>
        > Free surface effect. Water sloshing around in the bilge does
        nothing for
        > righting moment. Bad example. ....

        > ....Basically it all depends on how you draw the envelope.
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "oneillparker" <jboatguy@c...>
        > | If you put the water ballast back in the boat, and then flood the
        > | boat enough to cover the ballast, measure, then take the jugs out
        > | measure again, the amount of force required to tip the boat a
        > | amount will be equal.
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