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Re: Otter I and Otter II

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  • pvanderwaart
    ... I think the rig of Otter I is too complicated. PCB wrote in a note on Small Boat Journal that Otter II was not completely satisfactory, and required some
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 29, 2003
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      > Which is the best, Otter I or Otter II - and why?
      > If the AS19, Otter and Otter II are disasters, please
      > let me know.

      I think the rig of Otter I is too complicated. PCB wrote in a note on
      Small Boat Journal that Otter II was not completely satisfactory, and
      required some ballast that he had hoped would be unnecessary. AS19 is
      really a daysailer with a storage cuddy rather than a cabin boat.

      PCB did a column in MAIB about the 20' Wish II design. The original 4-
      sleeper version is agreed to be too ambitious but he developed a 2-
      sleeper version. One or two have been built with some modifications.
      I think it might be just as easy, or even easier, to build as Otter.
      There is also the Long Micro to consider.

      I also agree that Michalak has some good designs of the general Otter
      type.

      Peter
    • Gavin Atkin
      ... I did, and Dave kindly wrote back. He said that the Otter II he had was a good boat but that he d been disappointed to find that it was too heavy at
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, craig o'donnell <dadadata@f...> wrote:


        > email Dave Carnell (not sure of the address, but I do believe it is
        > mailto:davecarnell@a...) -- he built one of the Otters, not sure which,
        > and was not completely satisfied. He'll be happy to go into details.


        I did, and Dave kindly wrote back. He said that the Otter II he had was a good
        boat but that he'd been disappointed to find that it was too heavy at 1500lbs to
        trailer and day sail easily. I must say that I'm surprised at that figure, having
        thought that 500lbs would be nearer the mark. That said it would still be rather
        challenging to launch and retrieve singlehanded at that weight.

        What hull weight would you guys expect?

        Gavin
      • pvanderwaart
        ... Did Dave say if any of that weight was ballast? Five hundred lbs sounds pretty light to me. I would have guessed, offhand and without any computation,
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
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          > too heavy at 1500lbs to
          > trailer and day sail easily.


          Did Dave say if any of that weight was ballast?

          Five hundred lbs sounds pretty light to me. I would have guessed,
          offhand and without any computation, 750-1000 lbs.

          Peter
        • Gavin Atkin
          ... t the boat would usually turn out a little heavier than the designer intended, gi= ven that most of us tend to overbuild at least a little.Now, I m
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:

            > Five hundred lbs sounds pretty light to me.

            Quite so. My thinking was that Bolger doesn't generally over-engineer his
            designs and the boat is meant to be unballasted. In practice, I suspect tha=
            t the
            boat would usually turn out a little heavier than the designer intended, gi=
            ven
            that most of us tend to overbuild at least a little.

            Now, I'm racking my brains. I don't have his write up to hand, but I think =
            I
            remember that Bolger wrote that the Otter II was really a 14ft punt with a =

            draining well aft for the outboard and a further draining well forward insi=
            de a
            cutwater? If that's so, 1500lbs in hull weight seems a lot of displacement =
            for a
            14ft boat, particularly when you have to add crew and gear. It also feels a=
            little
            too expensive to be a wise investment: what do boats cost to make now, is i=
            t
            around £1.50-3/lb painted?

            Gav, musing in a grey marble office by the River Thames in the heart of
            London, and watching yet another unrelieved grey east of England sky slithe=
            r
            by into the North Sea
          • Gavin Atkin
            Here s a bit more of what I laughingly call my thinking . I don t remember the details, of the Otter II, but let s assume that it really is a punt of 14ft in
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 2, 2003
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              Here's a bit more of what I laughingly call 'my thinking'.

              I don't remember the details, of the Otter II, but let's assume that it really is a
              punt of 14ft in length and, say, 5ft in beam, and, say, 9in deep at its design
              displacement. The displacement's going to be length times beam times depth
              times the prismatic coefficient (I'll guess that bit) times the weight of a cubic
              foot of water. So that's 14 by 5 by 0.75 by 0.6 by 65 - I don't know where this is
              going yet as I calculate - which makes 2047.5lbs by my calculator. This is of
              course the roughest of rough calculations, so maybe one should not take too
              much notice of it, but I suppose it does make a hull weight of 1500lbs just
              about practical.

              Without ballast, though, it could be a brute to try to right after a capsize.

              Gav, still musing in the greyness of London
            • Chris Stewart
              Gav, Happen to have a library copy of Different Boats at hand (unfortunately, it has to go back Monday). Otter II is 19 6 x 5 10 . Quoting from his text: The
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 7, 2003
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                Gav,

                Happen to have a library copy of Different Boats at hand
                (unfortunately, it has to go back Monday).

                Otter II is 19'6" x 5'10".

                Quoting from his text: "The cuddy is watertight; it can't be flooded
                in any kind of sudden knockdown, and for ordinary coastwise sailing
                suitable to her size, it makes her self-righting, without any ballast
                apart from her bottom structure." (Bottom is two layers of 3/8 ply.)

                "The stem and stern bays are free-flooding. They have holes in the
                bottom to let the water out. The ends aren't properly part of the
                hull at all; they are more in the nature of a bowsprit and motor
                bracket, also serving as fairing to improve the flow of water around
                what's really a square-ended punt 14 1/2 feet long, of which 6 1/2
                feet is reliably decked and bulkheaded."

                "Bulkheads...#4 and #8 are watertight up to vent and companionway
                openings shown, to enclose dry cuddy on which the boat relies for
                rserve stability and bouyancy in a knockdown or rainstorm;..." (The
                vent appears to be about 2'2" up and the companionway opening appears
                to be start about 2'4" up - virtually the same height as the sheer.)

                Chris Stewart
                in the whiteness of New York



                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Gavin Atkin" <gavinatkin@y...> wrote:
                > Here's a bit more of what I laughingly call 'my thinking'.
                >
                > I don't remember the details, of the Otter II, but let's assume
                that it really is a
                > punt of 14ft in length and, say, 5ft in beam, and, say, 9in deep at
                its design
                > displacement. The displacement's going to be length times beam
                times depth
                > times the prismatic coefficient (I'll guess that bit) times the
                weight of a cubic
                > foot of water. So that's 14 by 5 by 0.75 by 0.6 by 65 - I don't
                know where this is
                > going yet as I calculate - which makes 2047.5lbs by my calculator.
                This is of
                > course the roughest of rough calculations, so maybe one should not
                take too
                > much notice of it, but I suppose it does make a hull weight of
                1500lbs just
                > about practical.
                >
                > Without ballast, though, it could be a brute to try to right after
                a capsize.
                >
                > Gav, still musing in the greyness of London
              • Gavin Atkin
                ... You ll have to find a photocopier before then! So my guesses were not so far out. I still think 1500lbs too heavy, 500lbs rather light and that Peter VW s
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 7, 2003
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Stewart" <stewtone@m...> wrote:
                  > Gav,
                  >
                  > Happen to have a library copy of Different Boats at hand
                  > (unfortunately, it has to go back Monday).
                  >
                  > Otter II is 19'6" x 5'10".

                  You'll have to find a photocopier before then!

                  So my guesses were not so far out. I still think 1500lbs too heavy,
                  500lbs rather light and that Peter VW's estimate of 700lbs is likely
                  to be close.

                  I should have a long talk with my friend, for I think that either of
                  the Otters would be good for the area where we live, where we have a
                  terrific big sheltered estuary with many mud banks etc, and where I
                  think a leeboard sharpie would have a lot to recommend it.

                  Gav
                • Bruce Hallman
                  ... Just looked Otter II up in _Different Boats_, and find that Otter II is kind of like a shrunken Black Skimmer. Seems like a useful camping / trailing boat.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 7, 2003
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                    --- "Chris Stewart" <stewtone@m...> wrote:
                    > Otter II is 19'6" x 5'10".

                    Just looked Otter II up in _Different
                    Boats_, and find that Otter II is
                    kind of like a shrunken Black Skimmer.

                    Seems like a useful camping / trailing
                    boat.
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