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Re: [bolger] Re: Bow Shed [was #481 closed in]

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  • Bruce Hallman
    ... And that is the high temperature! The low got down to 43 deg. this morning! This is likely to impair the amount of exposed skin at the Halloween party
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 31, 2003
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      > work done when the thermometer
      > plummets down to 60 deg.F.
      > Bloody inhuman,I say!

      And that is the high temperature!
      The low got down to 43 deg. this morning!
      This is likely to impair the amount of
      exposed skin at the Halloween party
      tonight in the Castro you know.
      > (any pictures?)
      Look for the guy in the banana costume

      > A year does fly by awefully fast!
      Bear in mind that lots of 'real life' occurred
      in the last year. Plus I build a Teal and a
      Yellow Leaf too.

      > Any idea what the next boat will be?

      I keep dreaming.
      My S.O. still wants a Champlain, and so do
      I, (sort of), pictures of it are on my wall
      near me as I write. Also, there are pictures
      of Rozinante, and of Yonder. S.S. Rabl has
      a design for a deliciously swoopy and retro
      16 foot outboard 1940's style runabout in
      his book _Boatbuilding in Your Own Backyard_.

      My S.O. also suggests using and learning from
      our Micro Navigator before making decisions on
      the next 'big boat'. Good advice, I feel.

      So, probably a smaller boat, I really want a
      classic cruising canoe, to the lines of the
      "Rob Roy" described so elegantly by L. F.
      Herreshoff.

      Also, I cannot see why not to build a Superbrick.
    • sctree
      A little further south of you Bruce, where it s 48 F and RAINING. Ya, ya I know you guys elsewhere think that s summer, but just three days ago it was over
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 31, 2003
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        A little further south of you Bruce, where it's 48 F and RAINING. Ya, ya
        I know you guys elsewhere think that's summer, but just three days ago
        it was over 100F. I want my sun back......

        Anyway, this cold spell means I gotta get the windows on the pilothouse
        before the next outing. Thing is, the now ten year old tinted lexan is
        so fogged and scratched I can't see through it. And I really want to
        rework the whole window idea. The panes are 2' x 2' and I want them
        seasonally removable. On for the winter, and stored in the garage for
        the summer. My big problem is with 2' x 2' panes the thin acrylic
        wobbles and flexes, the thick stuff is big $$ and heavy. I was thinking
        of building in some camber to the frames to give the thinner stuff some
        rigidity. Bruce you said something about trying this on your Navigator.
        Did it work ? Anyone else help with ideas?

        Thanks.

        Rick
        Who can't even remember what warm sunshine is like anymore as it's been
        so long....




        Bruce Hallman wrote:

        > > work done when the thermometer
        > > plummets down to 60 deg.F.
        > > Bloody inhuman,I say!
        >
        > And that is the high temperature!
        > The low got down to 43 deg. this morning!
        > This is likely to impair the amount of
        > exposed skin at the Halloween party
        > tonight in the Castro you know.
        > > (any pictures?)
        > Look for the guy in the banana costume
        >
        > > A year does fly by awefully fast!
        > Bear in mind that lots of 'real life' occurred
        > in the last year. Plus I build a Teal and a
        > Yellow Leaf too.
        >
        > > Any idea what the next boat will be?
        >
        > I keep dreaming.
        > My S.O. still wants a Champlain, and so do
        > I, (sort of), pictures of it are on my wall
        > near me as I write. Also, there are pictures
        > of Rozinante, and of Yonder. S.S. Rabl has
        > a design for a deliciously swoopy and retro
        > 16 foot outboard 1940's style runabout in
        > his book _Boatbuilding in Your Own Backyard_.
        >
        > My S.O. also suggests using and learning from
        > our Micro Navigator before making decisions on
        > the next 'big boat'. Good advice, I feel.
        >
        > So, probably a smaller boat, I really want a
        > classic cruising canoe, to the lines of the
        > "Rob Roy" described so elegantly by L. F.
        > Herreshoff.
        >
        > Also, I cannot see why not to build a Superbrick.
        >
        >
      • Bob Chamberland
        If you are not overconcerned with weight you might consider laminated glass. The only drawback is the weight. It has none of the disadvantages of plastic. It
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 31, 2003
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          If you are not overconcerned with weight you might consider laminated
          glass. The only drawback is the weight. It has none of the
          disadvantages of plastic. It is breakable of course but the odds are
          usually against breakage in normal situations. Certainly the cost is
          competetive.
          Bob Chamberland


          > Anyway, this cold spell means I gotta get the windows on the pilothouse
          > before the next outing. Thing is, the now ten year old tinted lexan is
          > so fogged and scratched I can't see through it. And I really want to
          > rework the whole window idea. The panes are 2' x 2' and I want them
          > seasonally removable. On for the winter, and stored in the garage for
          > the summer. My big problem is with 2' x 2' panes the thin acrylic
          > wobbles and flexes, the thick stuff is big $$ and heavy. I was thinking
          > of building in some camber to the frames to give the thinner stuff some
          > rigidity. Bruce you said something about trying this on your Navigator.
          > Did it work ? Anyone else help with ideas?
          >
          > Thanks.
          >
          > Rick
        • Bill Kreamer
          Make your own convex acrylic windows with a clamped perimeter and a heat lamp? There must be instructions on the net – does anyone have a link? -Bill ...
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 31, 2003
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            Make your own convex acrylic windows with a clamped perimeter and a heat
            lamp? There must be instructions on the net – does anyone have a link?
            -Bill

            -----Original Message-----
            From: sctree [mailto:sctree@...]
            Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 11:55
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [bolger] Pilothouse windows [was Bow Shed]

            A little further south of you Bruce, where it's 48 F and RAINING. Ya, ya

            I know you guys elsewhere think that's summer, but just three days ago
            it was over 100F. I want my sun back......

            Anyway, this cold spell means I gotta get the windows on the pilothouse
            before the next outing. Thing is, the now ten year old tinted lexan is
            so fogged and scratched I can't see through it. And I really want to
            rework the whole window idea. The panes are 2' x 2' and I want them
            seasonally removable. On for the winter, and stored in the garage for
            the summer. My big problem is with 2' x 2' panes the thin acrylic
            wobbles and flexes, the thick stuff is big $$ and heavy. I was thinking
            of building in some camber to the frames to give the thinner stuff some
            rigidity. Bruce you said something about trying this on your Navigator.
            Did it work ? Anyone else help with ideas?

            Thanks.

            Rick
            Who can't even remember what warm sunshine is like anymore as it's been
            so long....




            Bruce Hallman wrote:

            > > work done when the thermometer
            > > plummets down to 60 deg.F.
            > > Bloody inhuman, I say!
            >
            > And that is the high temperature!
            > The low got down to 43 deg. this morning!
            > This is likely to impair the amount of
            > exposed skin at the Halloween party
            > tonight in the Castro you know.
            > > (any pictures?)
            > Look for the guy in the banana costume
            >
            > > A year does fly by awefully fast!
            > Bear in mind that lots of 'real life' occurred
            > in the last year. Plus I build a Teal and a
            > Yellow Leaf too.
            >
            > > Any idea what the next boat will be?
            >
            > I keep dreaming.
            > My S.O. still wants a Champlain, and so do
            > I, (sort of), pictures of it are on my wall
            > near me as I write. Also, there are pictures
            > of Rozinante, and of Yonder. S.S. Rabl has
            > a design for a deliciously swoopy and retro
            > 16 foot outboard 1940's style runabout in
            > his book _Boatbuilding in Your Own Backyard_.
            >
            > My S.O. also suggests using and learning from
            > our Micro Navigator before making decisions on
            > the next 'big boat'. Good advice, I feel.
            >
            > So, probably a smaller boat, I really want a
            > classic cruising canoe, to the lines of the
            > "Rob Roy" described so elegantly by L. F.
            > Herreshoff.
            >
            > Also, I cannot see why not to build a Superbrick.
            >
            >





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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Bruce Hallman
            ... Well, the thin 1/8 Lexan still is wobbly even with a 2 camber in 36 width. Never the less, I did impromptu testing of the strength of the Lexan, and
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 31, 2003
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              --- sctree asked:
              > I was thinking of building in some
              > camber to the frames to give the
              > thinner stuff some rigidity.
              > Did it work ? Anyone else help with ideas?

              Well, the thin 1/8" Lexan still is wobbly
              even with a 2" camber in 36" width.

              Never the less, I did impromptu testing
              of the strength of the Lexan, and wow,
              that stuff is tough. I concluded that
              even with the wobbles, the failure will
              be in the fasteners, not in the lexan.

              I was unable to break a piece 1/8" by 1/4"
              by 24" using my bare hands.

              Did it work? Cosmetically, not really, well
              maybe it helped some. That is hard to know.
              The curved windows cause subtle curves in
              the cabin, and that looks 'nautical' which
              is good. [More than twice as hard to build!]

              Structurally, I believe camber doesn't matter.
              What matters is the connection detail of the
              Lexan to the boat.
            • Roger Derby
              Did you know you can bend Lexan (polycarbonate) like metal? Clamp a strip in the vise and hammer to make a 90° bend (with protection from tool marks and a
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 31, 2003
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                Did you know you can bend Lexan (polycarbonate) like metal? Clamp a strip
                in the vise and hammer to make a 90° bend (with protection from tool marks
                and a slight radius like copper or steel). Or use a bending brake if you
                have one.

                Roger
                derbyrm@...
                http://derbyrm.mystarband.net

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>

                > Nevertheless, I did impromptu testing
                > of the strength of the Lexan, and wow,
                > that stuff is tough. I concluded that
                > even with the wobbles, the failure will
                > be in the fasteners, not in the lexan.
                >
                > I was unable to break a piece 1/8" by 1/4"
                > by 24" using my bare hands.
              • sctree
                Thanks, I guess I ll try 3/16ths. Today I enlarged the window holes on my Microtrawler by a few inches, so now I ll need 24 x 26 . Still thinking about some
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 1, 2003
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                  Thanks, I guess I'll try 3/16ths.

                  Today I enlarged the window holes on my Microtrawler by a few inches, so
                  now I'll need 24" x 26". Still thinking about some camber, with deep
                  routered slots for the acrylic.... Haven't quite figured out exact
                  details .....

                  Hey Bruce, how about towing the Navigator out to the November Messabout
                  in Stockton????

                  Rick


                  Bruce Hallman wrote:

                  > --- sctree asked:
                  > > I was thinking of building in some
                  > > camber to the frames to give the
                  > > thinner stuff some rigidity.
                  > > Did it work ? Anyone else help with ideas?
                  >
                  > Well, the thin 1/8" Lexan still is wobbly
                  > even with a 2" camber in 36" width.
                  >
                  > Never the less, I did impromptu testing
                  > of the strength of the Lexan, and wow,
                  > that stuff is tough. I concluded that
                  > even with the wobbles, the failure will
                  > be in the fasteners, not in the lexan.
                  >
                  > I was unable to break a piece 1/8" by 1/4"
                  > by 24" using my bare hands.
                  >
                  > Did it work? Cosmetically, not really, well
                  > maybe it helped some. That is hard to know.
                  > The curved windows cause subtle curves in
                  > the cabin, and that looks 'nautical' which
                  > is good. [More than twice as hard to build!]
                  >
                  > Structurally, I believe camber doesn't matter.
                  > What matters is the connection detail of the
                  > Lexan to the boat.
                  >
                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  > Bolger rules!!!
                  > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                  > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                  > Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Bruce Hallman
                  ... I looked again critically at my cambered windows, and I did more like 1 in 36 , and the camber definitely helps a lot with the wobble. The deflections
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 1, 2003
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                    --- sctree wrote:
                    > Still thinking about some
                    > camber, with deep
                    > routered slots

                    I looked again critically at my
                    cambered windows, and I did more
                    like 1" in 36", and the camber
                    definitely helps a lot with the wobble.
                    The deflections that are visible, are
                    localized where I screwed [overscrewed]
                    the lexan to the molding strips.

                    One thing to consider, on the PB&F
                    plans, the window openings have
                    rounded corners. I found that the
                    job of stem bending the molding
                    strips to be a 'learning experience'
                    to say the least. Routing the channel
                    might work better, but fitting the
                    lexan in routed slots seems tough.

                    > Hey Bruce, how about towing the
                    > Navigator out to the
                    > November Messabout in Stockton????

                    There is no way my Navigator will be
                    ready by Nov 29th, but my S.O. and I
                    may come with Teal, tent & sleeping bags.
                  • sctree
                    ... Been there, done that. ... Luckily I have squared corners. ... My intent is to fit the panes before assembling the final stile, then fitting the whole mess
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 1, 2003
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                      Bruce Hallman wrote:

                      > --- sctree wrote:
                      > > Still thinking about some
                      > > camber, with deep
                      > > routered slots
                      >
                      > I looked again critically at my
                      > cambered windows, and I did more
                      > like 1" in 36", and the camber
                      > definitely helps a lot with the wobble.
                      > The deflections that are visible, are
                      > localized where I screwed [overscrewed]

                      Been there, done that.

                      >
                      > the lexan to the molding strips.
                      >
                      > One thing to consider, on the PB&F
                      > plans, the window openings have
                      > rounded corners.

                      Luckily I have squared corners.

                      > I found that the
                      > job of stem bending the molding
                      > strips to be a 'learning experience'
                      > to say the least. Routing the channel
                      > might work better, but fitting the
                      > lexan in routed slots seems tough.

                      My intent is to fit the panes before assembling the final stile, then
                      fitting the whole mess to the cabin.

                      >
                      >
                      > > Hey Bruce, how about towing the
                      > > Navigator out to the
                      > > November Messabout in Stockton????
                      >
                      > There is no way my Navigator will be
                      > ready by Nov 29th, but my S.O. and I
                      > may come with Teal, tent & sleeping bags.

                      Cool, another Bolger boat. Plan on Windmill Cove Marina, the 29th. I
                      hope to be there the night before, and maybe the night after with
                      Microtrawler. Maybe Pointy Skiff. Details to follow in a few days......

                      Rick

                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      > Bolger rules!!!
                      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                      > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                      > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                      > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                      > Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bruce Hallman
                      ... I don t regret the rounded corners, I like the way they look, but it *was* extra work. Also, I think that the rounding, [would you call that filleting?]
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 2, 2003
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                        --- sctree wrote:
                        > > rounded corners.
                        >
                        > Luckily I have squared corners.

                        I don't regret the rounded
                        corners, I like the way they
                        look, but it *was* extra work.
                        Also, I think that the rounding,
                        [would you call that filleting?]
                        also serves structurally with the
                        connections of the stiles and rails,
                        and that is probably the reason that
                        the PB&F plans show them.

                        > My intent is to fit the panes before
                        > assembling the final stile, then
                        > fitting the whole mess to the cabin.

                        How will you connect the last joint?
                        I found it easy to goober up the Lexan
                        with glue, and it scratches too easily.
                      • sctree
                        Bruce, ... I agree they will look better rounded. Reddy is mostly square angles, so the rectangular window frames aren t so bad. ... Yes, they work like a
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 2, 2003
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                          Bruce,

                          >
                          > I don't regret the rounded
                          > corners, I like the way they
                          > look, but it *was* extra work.

                          I agree they will look better rounded. Reddy is mostly square angles, so
                          the rectangular window frames aren't so bad.

                          >
                          > Also, I think that the rounding,
                          > [would you call that filleting?]
                          > also serves structurally with the
                          > connections of the stiles and rails,
                          > and that is probably the reason that
                          > the PB&F plans show them.

                          Yes, they work like a gusset. Much stronger frame corners, and I'd guess
                          the rounded corner of the pane is stronger than a 90 degree corner...

                          >
                          > > My intent is to fit the panes before
                          > > assembling the final stile, then
                          > > fitting the whole mess to the cabin.
                          >
                          > How will you connect the last joint?
                          > I found it easy to goober up the Lexan
                          > with glue, and it scratches too easily.

                          My current idea is the rails and stiles connected with half lap joints.
                          On the benchtop epoxy three sides together with the fourth dry fitted to
                          maintain shape. Next day slide in the pane with flexible goop in the
                          slots, epoxy on the fourth. Later bed and screw the whole thing to the
                          cabin, like when a house gets new windows....

                          What I'll actually do, who knows? I'm open to suggestions.

                          Last two goes at this sort of thing I left the paper on the panes until
                          very close to launching day.

                          Rick

                          >
                          >
                        • Bruce Hallman
                          ... In my case, dealing *neatly* with the goop, [siliconized caulk] was *not* easy. I predict that sliding the windows down a slot, will be messy, and will
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 2, 2003
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                            --- sctree wrote:
                            > slide in the pane with
                            > flexible goop in the slots,

                            In my case, dealing *neatly*
                            with the goop, [siliconized
                            caulk] was *not* easy.
                            I predict that sliding the
                            windows down a slot, will
                            be messy, and will push
                            the goop out when you want
                            to keep the goop in.

                            I recommend lots and lots
                            of masking tape, plus maybe
                            you should experiment some
                            first. I found that making
                            about a hundred 'single use'
                            "V" scraper tools out of
                            thin cardboard worked to lift
                            and clean the over-gooped
                            caulking. Each was used for
                            about four inches, and then
                            discarded.

                            You might also want to consider
                            a more conventional window
                            glazing detail, where you use
                            a trim piece instead of a slot.
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