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water proof wood

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  • Mi'ki
    before putting any paint on the wood or any fiberglass at the joints I would like to put some kind of deep penetrating resin on the wood to prevent rot and ply
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 29, 2003
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      before putting any paint on the wood or any fiberglass at the joints I would like to put some kind of deep penetrating resin on the wood to prevent rot and ply separation but regular resin is too thick and cures way to fast

      what other choices are there to use?


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    • Peter Lenihan
      ... joints I would like to put some kind of deep penetrating resin on the wood to prevent rot and ply separation but regular resin is too thick and cures way
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 29, 2003
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mi'ki <mike78612003@y...> wrote:
        > before putting any paint on the wood or any fiberglass at the
        joints I would like to put some kind of deep penetrating resin on the
        wood to prevent rot and ply separation but regular resin is too thick
        and cures way to fast
        >
        > what other choices are there to use?




        Hi,
        Here in Canada,at least,there is a product manufactured by
        Industrial Formulators of Canada called S1 Sealer.This is a clear
        penetrating epoxy that goes into wood better then water :-) Perfect
        for pre-paint sealing
        The same company also manufactures a laminating epoxy resin which is
        perfect for doing glass lay-ups over wood and it too is as"thin" as
        water allowing for excellent,quick saturation of the fiberglass and
        deep penetration of underlaying wood.I can't recall its "real" name
        but it goes by the awkward name of something like HR-7839-4.....I
        tell my distributor I want some G-3 and he knows what I mean:-)
        I agree that most epoxy resins generally are too thick and best
        used as glues once thickening agents have been added.

        Hope this helps.

        Sincerely,

        Peter Lenihan
        >
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      • sctree
        In the US there is a product called CPES that some swear by. It s an epoxy heavily thinned with very stinky solvents. Do a search under Smith Co. and CPES.
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 29, 2003
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          In the US there is a product called CPES that some swear by. It's an
          epoxy heavily thinned with very stinky solvents. Do a search under Smith
          Co. and CPES. Better ye,t go to the WoodenBoat forum and search there.

          Rick-


          Mi'ki wrote:

          > before putting any paint on the wood or any fiberglass at the joints I
          > would like to put some kind of deep penetrating resin on the wood to
          > prevent rot and ply separation but regular resin is too thick and
          > cures way to fast
          >
          > what other choices are there to use?
          >
          >
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        • pvanderwaart
          Back in the old days of bent frame and carvel planks, cuprinol was a standard. As far as I know, it does not interfere with the epoxy. Does any think it s a
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 29, 2003
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            Back in the old days of bent frame and carvel planks, cuprinol was a
            standard. As far as I know, it does not interfere with the epoxy.
            Does any think it's a good idea?

            Peter
          • Mark
            Mike, After some looking around, I figure that the penetrating resins are not too very worthwhile. Apparently, some of these are as much as 70% solvent -at
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 30, 2003
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              Mike,

              After some looking around, I figure that the penetrating resins are not too very
              worthwhile. Apparently, some of these are as much as 70% solvent -at epoxy prices. Also,
              they retard cure time and give a much less dense and hard coat than straight epoxy, thus
              less waterproof.

              For a genuine epoxy coating, you can mix your own to improve brushability with up to about
              10% Acetone, MEK or lacquer thinner if you've got good ventilation. Harold payson also
              suggests the same approach with polyester resin and acetone to seal the plywood.

              If you want to spend 20 bucks a quart, don't hesitate on something like Pettit's #2018 Old
              Salem Clear Sealer. The marine store also has the old oil based Penetrol at about $25 a
              gallon. You don't even have to paint it.

              Other options include two or three coats of sealer primer -I've got a $20 gallon of water
              borne Kilz Premium I'm about to test. While others may disagree, I've had good luck under
              both latex paint and oil varnish with the hardware store Thompson's Water sealer. I've
              also got a $20 gallon of their latest 'Advanced-Natural' for my cockpit that is also water
              based and has enough UV protection to last two years on house decks. Since I want a plain,
              unpainted, flat finish, Deks Olje#1 would be great but cost as much than the entire rest
              of the boat.

              I don't know about the old stuff like Cuprinol. I haven't seen it lately but vaguely
              recall a bad reputation for toxicity.

              Just remember: many people seem to get by with a couple of coats of porch paint.
              Some say the most important part of painting is your brush.
              Mark



              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Mi'ki <mike78612003@y...> wrote:
              > > before putting any paint on the wood or any fiberglass at the
              > joints I would like to put some kind of deep penetrating resin on the
              > wood to prevent rot and ply separation but regular resin is too thick
              > and cures way to fast
              > >
              > > what other choices are there to use?
              >
            • Don Tyson
              .....Should not use Kiln Dryed lumber in inaccessable structural areas...........Kiln drying only gets the moisture down btn 20-30%. Air dryed Natual lumber
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 30, 2003
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                .....Should not use Kiln Dryed lumber in inaccessable structural areas...........Kiln drying only gets the moisture down btn 20-30%. Air dryed Natual lumber goes down to 10-15% @ the approxiamate rate of 1/2" per year (slightly faster in an attic). Forget all the cure-all products and their inventor Mr.Jury Riggins.
                There is a reason the pro's use the products principles they use. If we follow their lead it will save us alot of time.
                As far as sealers are concerned why would you apply a product before painting which is intended to seal and protect wood which in other areas of industry is used as a release agent.
                I can't imagine spending 2000 hrs building something with wet wood. I can't imagine building a boat with dry wood (especially Fir) that I didn't continue and seal with epoxy/glass inside and out.
                Remember 10mil below water and 6mil above.
                I talk pretty big, huh?
                Learned the hard way.....got taken....failed again......got smarter....and next?
                Mark <marka@...> wrote:

                Great point Mark.

                >Apparently, some of these are as much as 70% solvent -at epoxy prices. Also,
                >they retard cure time and give a much less dense and hard coat than straight epoxy, thus
                less waterproof.



                no no no no no. buy the right epoxy and use at the right temp. patiently apply it. remember to use heat and cooling to an advantage.

                <For a genuine epoxy coating, you can mix your own to improve brushability with up to about
                10% Acetone, MEK or lacquer thinner if you've got good ventilation.

                Temporary at best.

                < Harold payson also
                suggests the same approach with polyester resin and acetone to seal the plywood.

                The following is great stuff but use it for joinery and cabinetry.

                If you want to spend 20 bucks a quart, don't hesitate on something like Pettit's #2018 Old
                Salem Clear Sealer.

                Mr. Jury Riggins Says:

                < The marine store also has the old oil based Penetrol at about $25 a
                gallon. You don't even have to paint it.

                Mark, Kilz....I bet this will work well except below the waterline in boats which are stored in the water. Let us know. Smells like Pettit sealer primer which I used all over the interior of my boat. It would be interesting to compare labels to check active ingredients.

                <Other options include two or three coats of sealer primer -I've got a $20 gallon of water
                borne Kilz Premium I'm about to test. While others may disagree, I've had good luck under
                both latex paint and oil varnish with the hardware store Thompson's Water sealer. I've
                also got a $20 gallon of their latest 'Advanced-Natural' for my cockpit that is also water
                based and has enough UV protection to last two years on house decks.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • proaconstrictor
                ... areas...........Kiln drying only gets the moisture down btn 20-30%. Air dryed Natual lumber goes down to 10-15% @ the approxiamate rate of 1/2 per year
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 30, 2003
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Don Tyson <tysond99@y...> wrote:
                  > .....Should not use Kiln Dryed lumber in inaccessable structural
                  areas...........Kiln drying only gets the moisture down btn 20-30%.
                  Air dryed Natual lumber goes down to 10-15% @ the approxiamate rate
                  of 1/2" per year (slightly faster in an attic

                  Kiln drying can dry it as low as you want. A lot of stud lumber that
                  is marked as kiln dried, either never saw a kiln, or was parked
                  outside in the rain for an eternity after the drying. But certainly
                  if I buy a ton of KD cherry or walnut, I don't expect it to be
                  unuseable for years, it better be around 8% localy.

                  It air dries to whatever ambient allows, we get 8% here. In the
                  attic, where I store some stuff, it goes lower than my meter will
                  measure, as you say.

                  Kiln drying can mean many different processes. Often it affects the
                  colour and workability of the wood, usualy it's ok structuraly, at
                  least there is a lot of data that relates to KD wood.

                  For boat work, I don't care how it got dry, as long as it is.
                • Don Tyson
                  10/4 to that! or it was over-heated in a kiln, warping, and twisting it all out of shape. Slow low temp kiln drying is okay but I don t believe anyone is even
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 30, 2003
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                    10/4 to that!


                    or it was over-heated in a kiln, warping, and twisting it all out of shape. Slow low temp kiln drying is okay but I don't believe anyone is even watching that monopoly industry.

                    >A lot of stud lumber that
                    is marked as kiln dried, either never saw a kiln,



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Mark
                    ... Pretty sure it ll be fine for dry sailed boats. I actually went to the HD for a gallon of the Bullseye 1-2-3 waterborne but noticed in the fine print, Not
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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                      >
                      >> -I've got a $20 gallon of water borne Kilz Premium I'm about to test.

                      > Mark, Kilz....I bet this will work well except below the waterline in boats which are stored in the water. Let us know.

                      Pretty sure it'll be fine for dry sailed boats. I actually went to the HD for a gallon of
                      the Bullseye 1-2-3 waterborne but noticed in the fine print, "Not for immersion in water."
                      If you asked the Kilz company directly, bet they'd make the same disclaimer. So I guess
                      I'm punishing Bullseye for their honesty and attention to detail, but absolutely did not
                      want to blunder.

                      Ever read Billy Bathgate? "Because no one said not to."
                      Mark
                    • Don Tyson
                      I belieive that Kilz (not Kilz II) is the chemical equivalent of pure shellac and white die. I have seen articles buy, I think Payson And also Parker who
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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                        I belieive that Kilz (not Kilz II) is the chemical equivalent of pure shellac and white die.
                        I have seen articles buy, I think Payson And also Parker who mention that sheathing other than glass could be used on boats in conjunction with coating such as Urethane and Latex paint. Products discussed were muslin, canvas, Nylon, etc.

                        Mark <marka@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >> -I've got a $20 gallon of water borne Kilz Premium I'm about to test.

                        > Mark, Kilz....I bet this will work well except below the waterline in boats which are stored in the water. Let us know.

                        Pretty sure it'll be fine for dry sailed boats. I actually went to the HD for a gallon of
                        the Bullseye 1-2-3 waterborne but noticed in the fine print, "Not for immersion in water."
                        If you asked the Kilz company directly, bet they'd make the same disclaimer. So I guess
                        I'm punishing Bullseye for their honesty and attention to detail, but absolutely did not
                        want to blunder.

                        Ever read Billy Bathgate? "Because no one said not to."
                        Mark


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                      • pvanderwaart
                        ... It has certainly been common enough with canoes and cabin tops. Peter
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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                          > sheathing other than glass could be used on boats
                          > in conjunction with coating such as Urethane and Latex paint.
                          > Products discussed were muslin, canvas, Nylon, etc.

                          It has certainly been common enough with canoes and cabin tops.

                          Peter
                        • Don Tyson
                          ...........And long before Epoxy was invented. pvanderwaart wrote: sheathing other than glass could be used on boats ... It has
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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                            ...........And long before Epoxy was invented.

                            pvanderwaart <pvanderw@...> wrote:> sheathing other than glass could be used on boats
                            > in conjunction with coating such as Urethane and Latex paint.
                            > Products discussed were muslin, canvas, Nylon, etc.

                            It has certainly been common enough with canoes and cabin tops.

                            Peter



                            Bolger rules!!!
                            - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                            - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                            - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                            - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                            - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

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