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More on Alisa - and thanks!

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  • Frank San Miguel
    I extend my sincere thanks to all who have made suggestions. Here s a summary of the responses so far: - build a new bottom and place the superstructure on top
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 29, 2003
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      I extend my sincere thanks to all who have made suggestions.

      Here's a summary of the responses so far:
      - build a new bottom and place the superstructure on top
      - replace affected areas with stitch and glue style radius chine
      - cover the whole thing in fiberglass ("Covering Wooden Boats With
      Fiberglass," by Allan H. Vaitses )
      - cover it with some more plywood (George Bueller)

      Alisa has leaker her whole life. When I bought Alisa, I was confident
      that I could fix the leaking, but that has proven overly optimistic.
      I think most of the damage has happened since coming to Maryland with
      our heat and humidity. Here's where the water came from:

      1. leaks from the chines. The chines were only radiused .5" but the
      drawings called for a 1" radius. I've got more detail about my
      repairs to the chines on my website (
      http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/refit-report-2002/refit-report-2002.html
      ). I fixed that problem last year.

      2. leaks from the bilgeboard cases
      This is the one that got me. The cases just weren't watertight from
      the very beginning (they are kind of complicated). I don't have
      sufficient access get in there to fix these problems, and its too late
      besides.

      3. minor leaks through the sheathing.
      The boat is ACX fir plywood and there are little dark pinhole spots
      where water has penetrating into the voids in the plywood. This water
      never makes it into the cabin I don't think that this has caused any
      damage yet because I've checked a few of these areas and haven't found
      anything, but I'd build a big boat like AS-29 out of marine grade
      stuff based on this experience.

      I do feel that epoxy encapsulation is the right thing to do. But some
      parts had it gooped on 1/8" thick or more which made it hard to detect
      the damage. Of course the problem was obvious all along (water). I
      just couldn't see the actual results of the damage.

      The real difficulty in fixing Alisa is that the bilgeboard cases need
      to be completely re-done, so I'd need to remove the bilgeboards, cut
      out all of the galley cabinetry, icebox, two bulkheads and the actual
      bilge board cases themselves just to get access to the affected areas.
      After that, I'd need to take a look at the bottom and decide how much
      to repair or replace.

      Frank
    • sctree
      Rather than go at the bilgeboard cases from inside the boat, have you considered pulling the boards and taking a router to the hull sides working from the
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 29, 2003
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        Rather than go at the bilgeboard cases from inside the boat, have you
        considered pulling the boards and taking a router to the hull sides
        working from the chine up until beyond the rot?

        Rick-

        >
        >
        > The real difficulty in fixing Alisa is that the bilgeboard cases need
        > to be completely re-done, so I'd need to remove the bilgeboards, cut
        > out all of the galley cabinetry, icebox, two bulkheads and the actual
        > bilge board cases themselves just to get access to the affected areas.
        > After that, I'd need to take a look at the bottom and decide how much
        > to repair or replace.
        >
        > Frank
        >
      • dvacanti
        Does it make any sense to rip out the bilge board cases but not replace them? You could use leeboards instead. Doesn t seem like that big of a change to me and
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 29, 2003
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          Does it make any sense to rip out the bilge board cases but not
          replace them? You could use leeboards instead. Doesn't seem like that
          big of a change to me and would probable save you a lot of work. It
          would also eliminate the leaks in the bilge board cases permanently.

          -Mike

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
          > I extend my sincere thanks to all who have made suggestions.
          >
          > Here's a summary of the responses so far:
          > - build a new bottom and place the superstructure on top
          > - replace affected areas with stitch and glue style radius chine
          > - cover the whole thing in fiberglass ("Covering Wooden Boats With
          > Fiberglass," by Allan H. Vaitses )
          > - cover it with some more plywood (George Bueller)
          >
          > Alisa has leaker her whole life. When I bought Alisa, I was
          confident
          > that I could fix the leaking, but that has proven overly
          optimistic.
          > I think most of the damage has happened since coming to Maryland
          with
          > our heat and humidity. Here's where the water came from:
          >
          > 1. leaks from the chines. The chines were only radiused .5" but the
          > drawings called for a 1" radius. I've got more detail about my
          > repairs to the chines on my website (
          > http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/refit-report-2002/refit-report-
          2002.html
          > ). I fixed that problem last year.
          >
          > 2. leaks from the bilgeboard cases
          > This is the one that got me. The cases just weren't watertight from
          > the very beginning (they are kind of complicated). I don't have
          > sufficient access get in there to fix these problems, and its too
          late
          > besides.
          >
          < big snip >
          >
          > Frank
        • vexatious2001
          ... that ... Actually, if leeboards were used, one really would not need to rip-out the old trunks; just sheath over their openings. Max
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 29, 2003
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "dvacanti" <mike_vacanti@h...> wrote:
            > Does it make any sense to rip out the bilge board cases but not
            > replace them? You could use leeboards instead. Doesn't seem like
            that
            > big of a change to me and would probable save you a lot of work. It
            > would also eliminate the leaks in the bilge board cases permanently.
            >
            > -Mike
            >
            >

            Actually, if leeboards were used, one really would not
            need to rip-out the old trunks; just sheath over their
            openings.


            Max
          • sctree
            Then connect the new ballast tanks with some pipe and a pump so you can transfer the water to the windward rail... Rick-
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 29, 2003
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              Then connect the new "ballast tanks" with some pipe and a pump so you
              can transfer the water to the windward rail...

              Rick-

              vexatious2001 wrote:

              >
              > >
              >
              > Actually, if leeboards were used, one really would not
              > need to rip-out the old trunks; just sheath over their
              > openings.
              >
              >
              > Max
              >
            • Frank San Miguel
              interesting ... Thanks again to everyone. Needless to say, Alisa is no longer for sale. I m going to take some time to think about my next steps. Frank
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 30, 2003
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                interesting ...

                Thanks again to everyone. Needless to say, Alisa is no longer for
                sale. I'm going to take some time to think about my next steps.

                Frank
                Landenbgerg, PA

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, sctree <sctree@d...> wrote:
                > Then connect the new "ballast tanks" with some pipe and a pump so you
                > can transfer the water to the windward rail...
                >
                > Rick-
                >
                > vexatious2001 wrote:
                >
                > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > Actually, if leeboards were used, one really would not
                > > need to rip-out the old trunks; just sheath over their
                > > openings.
                > >
                > >
                > > Max
                > >
              • Don Tyson
                Frank, Where is landenberg, PA. Maybe I could swing by and look at it. I have a little experience restoring and alot of glue mixing experience. Don Easton, PA
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 1, 2003
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                  Frank, Where is landenberg, PA. Maybe I could swing by and look at it. I have a little experience restoring and alot of glue mixing experience.
                  Don
                  Easton, PA

                  Frank San Miguel <sanmi@...> wrote:
                  interesting ...

                  Thanks again to everyone. Needless to say, Alisa is no longer for
                  sale. I'm going to take some time to think about my next steps.

                  Frank
                  Landenbgerg, PA

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, sctree wrote:
                  > Then connect the new "ballast tanks" with some pipe and a pump so you
                  > can transfer the water to the windward rail...
                  >
                  > Rick-
                  >
                  > vexatious2001 wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > Actually, if leeboards were used, one really would not
                  > > need to rip-out the old trunks; just sheath over their
                  > > openings.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Max
                  > >



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