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A Boat for Newfoundland's South Coast

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  • David Ryan
    FBBB, I am enraptured with Newfoundland s South coast, and am scheming to return next Summer and explore it in greater detail. My plan involves driving to Port
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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      FBBB,

      I am enraptured with Newfoundland's South coast, and am scheming to
      return next Summer and explore it in greater detail. My plan involves
      driving to Port Aux Basque, building a boat, and then heading East,
      using the outports along the way as stop overs.

      The coastline is unbelievably rugged, but it is along riddled with
      coves, inlets, backwaters, where you could run for shelter. There are
      also coastal ferries that run on a regular schedule, and many small
      fishing boats working out of the small villages spaced 20-40 miles
      apart along the way. If you had problems help wouldnt' be too far
      away. In the Summer the weather is generally mild and the water warm,
      but the area is prone to fog.

      This fog would likely be the greatest hazard of the trip. However,
      armed with charts, GPS, radio, flares, and enough provisions to
      comfortably wait out any spell of bad weather I believe the trip
      could be made with as least as much safety as a trip from Montauk to
      New York City via the Long Island Expressway. The question then is:
      what boat? A kayak would likely be sufficient, but offers the chance
      for the trip to become a test of endurance rather than a gentle and
      pleasant cruise down a spectacular shoreline.

      I believe the ideal boat would offer the following:

      1) Self rescuing

      2) Be primarily sail powered, with an auxiliary motor, but small
      enough to be rowed a few miles.

      3) Small enough to be dragged up a rocky shore with the aid of a come-along.

      4) Large enough to carry luxurious camp supplies. In the event of
      extended bad weather time in camp should be pleasant enough to
      discourage tempting fate.

      5) Large enough to sleep in when setting camp is undesirable or impossible.


      The Singlehand Schooner very nearly meets the above requirements, and
      would look grand scooning down the coast. But wrestling with the
      daggerboard could be discouraging, and it would be a tight fit for
      sleep. No motor.

      A Birdwatcher might also fit the bill. Plenty of room for supplies
      with plenty of room to sleep left over. But it's really more boat
      than one person would need, and there's no motor.

      You could do it in a Zephyr, but that invites having an adventure
      rather than an outing.

      A Micro is too complicated a build, and not a boat I'd want to try
      and haul out over a rocky shore. Same with a Chebacco.

      YIBB,

      David
      --

      C.E.P.
      415 W.46th Street
      New York, New York 10036
      http://www.crumblingempire.com
      Mobile (646) 325-8325
      Office (212) 247-0296
    • David Romasco
      David, Seems to me what might suit is somewhere between Otter and Otter II Otter 1.5?); Otter II even has a somewhat Maine-ish look that seems suited to the
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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        David,



        Seems to me what might suit is somewhere between Otter and Otter II Otter
        1.5?); Otter II even has a somewhat Maine-ish look that seems suited to the
        waters you mention. She's something of a pocket Black Skimmer; might be
        more boat that you had in mind, but she shore packs in a heap of character
        in 19'6"..



        David Romasco



        -----Original Message-----
        From: David Ryan [mailto:david@...]
        Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:28 AM
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [bolger] A Boat for Newfoundland's South Coast



        FBBB,

        I am enraptured with Newfoundland's South coast, and am scheming to
        return next Summer and explore it in greater detail. My plan involves
        driving to Port Aux Basque, building a boat, and then heading East,
        using the outports along the way as stop overs.

        The coastline is unbelievably rugged, but it is along riddled with
        coves, inlets, backwaters, where you could run for shelter. There are
        also coastal ferries that run on a regular schedule, and many small
        fishing boats working out of the small villages spaced 20-40 miles
        apart along the way. If you had problems help wouldnt' be too far
        away. In the Summer the weather is generally mild and the water warm,
        but the area is prone to fog.

        This fog would likely be the greatest hazard of the trip. However,
        armed with charts, GPS, radio, flares, and enough provisions to
        comfortably wait out any spell of bad weather I believe the trip
        could be made with as least as much safety as a trip from Montauk to
        New York City via the Long Island Expressway. The question then is:
        what boat? A kayak would likely be sufficient, but offers the chance
        for the trip to become a test of endurance rather than a gentle and
        pleasant cruise down a spectacular shoreline.

        I believe the ideal boat would offer the following:

        1) Self rescuing

        2) Be primarily sail powered, with an auxiliary motor, but small
        enough to be rowed a few miles.

        3) Small enough to be dragged up a rocky shore with the aid of a come-along.

        4) Large enough to carry luxurious camp supplies. In the event of
        extended bad weather time in camp should be pleasant enough to
        discourage tempting fate.

        5) Large enough to sleep in when setting camp is undesirable or impossible.


        The Singlehand Schooner very nearly meets the above requirements, and
        would look grand scooning down the coast. But wrestling with the
        daggerboard could be discouraging, and it would be a tight fit for
        sleep. No motor.

        A Birdwatcher might also fit the bill. Plenty of room for supplies
        with plenty of room to sleep left over. But it's really more boat
        than one person would need, and there's no motor.

        You could do it in a Zephyr, but that invites having an adventure
        rather than an outing.

        A Micro is too complicated a build, and not a boat I'd want to try
        and haul out over a rocky shore. Same with a Chebacco.

        YIBB,

        David
        --

        C.E.P.
        415 W.46th Street
        New York, New York 10036
        http://www.crumblingempire.com
        Mobile (646) 325-8325
        Office (212) 247-0296





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      • proaconstrictor
        Matt Laydens 14 ft sharpie PARADOX There is a Yahoo group. Plans are well drawn and cheap, and people do cruise them out there. It s totaly enclosed so
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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          Matt Laydens 14 ft sharpie "PARADOX"

          There is a Yahoo group. Plans are well drawn and cheap, and people
          do cruise them out there. It's totaly enclosed so like a
          birdwatcher it can be nocked down, and pop back up. It's a roller
          reefing lug.

          Wharram Hitia 17. basicaly just two sea kayaks, though simpler in
          construction. A Tiki 21 has sailed around the world (next size up).
          The 17 is that much smaller, it would need a deck tent for
          accomodations, but it ought to be seaworthy enough. It's a Gaff
          rigged boat. I've never seen one with a poly tarp sail.

          http://www.wharram.com/ctrek_photos/hitia17.shtml

          Either of these could probably be built on site. Particularly if a
          lot of the bulkheads, spars rudders were prefabed.

          I'm having a hard time thinking of Bolgers in this size, that doesn't
          require ballast,
        • pvanderwaart
          Just how hardy are you? And how comfortable do you want to be? http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/walkabout/index.htm You seem to have a smallish
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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            Just how hardy are you? And how comfortable do you want to be?

            http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/walkabout/index.htm

            You seem to have a smallish boat in mind. On the Bolger side there
            are Oldshoe, the house version of Supermouse, the Japanese beach
            cruiser, etc.

            An easier alternative might be a cut-down rig for LSME.

            Peter
          • Peter Lenihan
            ... David, I don t know how much time you intend on devoting to building a boat once on the rock and your wish list appears to out do some of Bolgers smaller
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
              David,
              I don't know how much time you intend on devoting to
              building a boat once on "the rock" and your wish list appears to out
              do some of Bolgers smaller boats.
              Not wishing to insult our Hero, I am nevertheless inclined
              toward favouring Thomas's suggestion to go for a Wharram cat.The Tiki
              line( or is it the Coastal Cruiser?) is,I believe in the smaller
              sizes,meant for stitch and glue construction.All your panels could be
              cut out and stacked on a roof rack/rented trailer/rented van etc
              which you would haul to "the rock". The large stable platform
              afforded by these cats cartainly favours a comfy tent like structure
              for shelter between the hulls,excellent performance under sail and
              the possiblity of some paddling when the wind dies.
              Multi-hulls offer the most bang for the buck,when
              everything else is taken into consideration regarding your wish list.
              Sounds like a neat trip you've planned there,eh?


              Sincerely,
              Peter Lenihan
            • David Ryan
              Just how hardy are you? And how comfortable do you want to be? Hardy? No, no, no, that s not the idea at all! The only demand the trip and craft should place
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                Just how hardy are you? And how comfortable do you want to be?

                Hardy? No, no, no, that's not the idea at all!

                The only demand the trip and craft should place in the skipper is the
                willingness to be patient if conditions are marginal. To that end,
                time both in and out of the boat should be comfortable; warm, dry,
                well rested, and well fed.

                The boat should be large enough to carry a proper camp: A large tent,
                full kitchen, roll table, folding chairs, tarps and line enough to
                make things cozy even in the most torrential rain, an ice chest or
                two full of fresh food, etc. I used to make very fine float-in camps
                on the rivers out west, and we moved camp every night. On the
                proposed cruise, I'd hope to move camp no more often than every other
                day. In between would be spent fishing, diving, and lollygagging.

                Once camp is set, the boat should be handy enough to make exploring
                the area around camp an inviting option. Stripped of her rig, she
                should make a satisfactory motor skiff and/or row boat.

                On board sleeping should only be necessary in the event of a
                miscalculation or extremely bad luck, but should be comfortable
                enough that no risks are ever taken to avoid it.

                YIBB,

                David
                --

                C.E.P.
                415 W.46th Street
                New York, New York 10036
                http://www.crumblingempire.com
                Mobile (646) 325-8325
                Office (212) 247-0296
              • David Romasco
                Hmmm.... Assuming you have some desire to stay with a single hull and some inclination toward PCB s works, how about Centennial II? A seaworthy sort of
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                  Hmmm.... Assuming you have some desire to stay with a single hull and some
                  inclination toward PCB's works, how about Centennial II? A seaworthy sort
                  of affair...

                  Although I must say that Peter's suggestion of motoring about with a
                  prefabbed boat in pieces on the roof rack sounds intriguing. Mixed with
                  epoxy and the proper application of copious amounts of Screech, it may
                  serve....

                  David Romasco

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: David Ryan [mailto:david@...]
                  Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 2:58 PM
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [bolger] Re: A Boat for Newfoundland's South Coast


                  Just how hardy are you? And how comfortable do you want to be?

                  Hardy? No, no, no, that's not the idea at all!

                  The only demand the trip and craft should place in the skipper is the
                  willingness to be patient if conditions are marginal. To that end,
                  time both in and out of the boat should be comfortable; warm, dry,
                  well rested, and well fed.

                  The boat should be large enough to carry a proper camp: A large tent,
                  full kitchen, roll table, folding chairs, tarps and line enough to
                  make things cozy even in the most torrential rain, an ice chest or
                  two full of fresh food, etc. I used to make very fine float-in camps
                  on the rivers out west, and we moved camp every night. On the
                  proposed cruise, I'd hope to move camp no more often than every other
                  day. In between would be spent fishing, diving, and lollygagging.

                  Once camp is set, the boat should be handy enough to make exploring
                  the area around camp an inviting option. Stripped of her rig, she
                  should make a satisfactory motor skiff and/or row boat.

                  On board sleeping should only be necessary in the event of a
                  miscalculation or extremely bad luck, but should be comfortable
                  enough that no risks are ever taken to avoid it.

                  YIBB,

                  David
                  --

                  C.E.P.
                  415 W.46th Street
                  New York, New York 10036
                  http://www.crumblingempire.com
                  Mobile (646) 325-8325
                  Office (212) 247-0296


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                  Bolger rules!!!
                  - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                  - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
                  (978) 282-1349
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • pvanderwaart
                  ... How about a Tiki 26 for about the price of the materials? http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp? checked_boats=1037688
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                    > I am nevertheless inclined
                    > toward favouring Thomas's suggestion to go for a Wharram cat.

                    How about a Tiki 26 for about the price of the materials?

                    http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?
                    checked_boats=1037688
                  • GarthAB
                    David -- Are you sailing alone or with your family? Paradox may win this contest, but give a glance at Jim Michalak s Mayfly 16. I have the Mayfly 14, and
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                      David --

                      Are you sailing alone or with your family?

                      "Paradox" may win this contest, but give a glance at Jim
                      Michalak's "Mayfly 16." I have the Mayfly 14, and it's amazingly
                      stable and able to carry heavy loads. The 16 is much beamier (5'6"
                      vs. 4') and has a motor well, plus two 7'-long benches in the
                      cockpit.
                      The pivoting leeboard is a godsend -- you never need to tend it
                      as you sail up onto the beach, or into an unexpected log, rock,
                      sandbar, etc. It weighs 350 pounds -- not featherweight, but
                      something that could be winched up a beach, or hauled back in by two
                      people.
                      You could fit lots of gear in the watertight compartments, and
                      still have flotation enough for it to be self-rescuing. Live in it in
                      bad weather (with a good cockpit tent -- windows of 30 mil vinyl?),
                      sleep in it every night, and sail in most conditions short of Small
                      Craft Advisory.

                      Construction is simple enough that you could prefab most of it, and
                      build her in a day.

                      http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jim/mayfly16/index.htm

                      Okay, I admit I'm projecting. I want one myself!

                      Sounds like a great trip.

                      All best,
                      Garth
                      (leaky roof in my barn and heavy rain have stalled Cormorant
                      construction. New plastic tarp over roof may solve my problems. Two
                      steps forward, one step back . . .)
                    • Frank San Miguel
                      Now that Garth mentions it, how about an AF3? I ve taken Cream Cheese on some trips where we had enough water and supplies to last the whole week beach
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 29, 2003
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                        Now that Garth mentions it, how about an AF3? I've taken Cream Cheese
                        on some trips where we had enough water and supplies to last the whole
                        week beach camping for our little family of four. Well ok, almost the
                        whole week. AF3 rows "ok" and drags onto the beach pretty well. She
                        is very roomy and dry for such a little boat. On the other had, she
                        is a bit tippy, but where do you find a light beachable non-tippy
                        rowing sail boat?

                        Frank

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "GarthAB" <garth@b...> wrote:
                        > David --
                        >
                        > Are you sailing alone or with your family?
                        >
                        > "Paradox" may win this contest, but give a glance at Jim
                        > Michalak's "Mayfly 16." I have the Mayfly 14, and it's amazingly
                        > stable and able to carry heavy loads. The 16 is much beamier (5'6"
                        > vs. 4') and has a motor well, plus two 7'-long benches in the
                        > cockpit.
                        > The pivoting leeboard is a godsend -- you never need to tend it
                        > as you sail up onto the beach, or into an unexpected log, rock,
                        > sandbar, etc. It weighs 350 pounds -- not featherweight, but
                        > something that could be winched up a beach, or hauled back in by two
                        > people.
                        > You could fit lots of gear in the watertight compartments, and
                        > still have flotation enough for it to be self-rescuing. Live in it in
                        > bad weather (with a good cockpit tent -- windows of 30 mil vinyl?),
                        > sleep in it every night, and sail in most conditions short of Small
                        > Craft Advisory.
                        >
                        > Construction is simple enough that you could prefab most of it, and
                        > build her in a day.
                        >
                        > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jim/mayfly16/index.htm
                        >
                        > Okay, I admit I'm projecting. I want one myself!
                        >
                        > Sounds like a great trip.
                        >
                        > All best,
                        > Garth
                        > (leaky roof in my barn and heavy rain have stalled Cormorant
                        > construction. New plastic tarp over roof may solve my problems. Two
                        > steps forward, one step back . . .)
                      • Susan Davis
                        ... It would also look adorable following along in _Antichrist_ s wake. Or sailing in company with my _Shrike_ at a messabout, as a preview of when we have our
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 30, 2003
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The Singlehand Schooner very nearly meets the above requirements,
                          > and would look grand scooning down the coast.

                          It would also look adorable following along in _Antichrist_'s wake.
                          Or sailing in company with my _Shrike_ at a messabout, as a preview
                          of when we have our I60's....

                          > But wrestling with the
                          > daggerboard could be discouraging, and it would be a tight fit for
                          > sleep. No motor.

                          ...but no worries about fuel storage or availability, and oar
                          auxiliary has infinite range. And the daggerboard issue can be
                          solved with a block and tackle, and possibly Tony Groves' A-frame
                          that PCB was talking about. And they're easy to build.

                          Come on, you *know* you want one! :-)

                          --
                          Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
                        • Susan Davis
                          ... My chief regret about building the _Shrike_ is that I can t really justify having a Paradox, too, especially with an Insolent 60 on the way. I m
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 30, 2003
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                            > Matt Laydens 14 ft sharpie "PARADOX"
                            >
                            > There is a Yahoo group. Plans are well drawn and cheap, and people
                            > do cruise them out there. It's totaly enclosed so like a
                            > birdwatcher it can be nocked down, and pop back up. It's a roller
                            > reefing lug.

                            My chief regret about building the _Shrike_ is that I can't really
                            justify having a Paradox, too, especially with an Insolent 60 on
                            the way. I'm half-tempted to build one anyway someday -- they're
                            beautiful, and clever, and safe, and utterly brilliant.

                            OTOH, if you're rejecting the Micro as too complex, David, then
                            the Paradox may be too much boat. She's just 14 feet, but she's
                            a very intricate 14 feet. She's also too much boat to haul across
                            a beach fully loaded, with 400 pounds of lead and a full water
                            tank.

                            John Welsford has supposedly been looking seriously at Paradox,
                            with an eye toward creating something similar. I'd love to see
                            what comes of it, and that might fit the bill well, as would his
                            Walkabout.

                            -- Sue --
                            (but is Walkabout self-righting?)

                            --
                            Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
                          • proaconstrictor
                            ... 400 pounds of lead. Humm forgot about that. In my wildest dreams I hadn t counted on it being that much, that s near what is in Blackskimmer. I have the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Sep 30, 2003
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                              > OTOH, if you're rejecting the Micro as too complex, David, then
                              > the Paradox may be too much boat. She's just 14 feet, but she's
                              > a very intricate 14 feet. She's also too much boat to haul across
                              > a beach fully loaded, with 400 pounds of lead and a full water
                              > tank.
                              >
                              > John Welsford has supposedly been looking seriously at Paradox,
                              > with an eye toward creating something similar. I'd love to see
                              > what comes of it, and that might fit the bill well, as would his
                              > Walkabout.
                              >
                              > -- Sue --
                              > (but is Walkabout self-righting?)
                              >
                              > --
                              > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

                              400 pounds of lead. Humm forgot about that. In my wildest dreams I
                              hadn't counted on it being that much, that's near what is in
                              Blackskimmer. I have the plans, but looking would be cheating.

                              The main advantage over the Micro is that it is smaller, and no hot
                              lead (please say it is so).

                              I sure wouldn't try it unless I was doing a kind of SIKA challenge
                              thing where the end result is somewhat disposeable, and a lot of prep
                              has been done in advance. What an apauling thought, until it occurs
                              to me that there are no maintenance or storage hassles.

                              I was cabinetmaking in Freddy this summer, no home depot. Every
                              thing I thought would be a piece of cake or cheap had to be worked
                              out completely differently, with very different local supplies. That
                              is why I would want to take a lot of pre-cut stuff just to keep the
                              running around to a minimum.

                              Hitia 17 would be wet at times, so that is out.
                            • ben_azo
                              Hi David,I have been over all previous postings,but it still isnt clear to me how many people will sail and camp on your projected trip,please give me a
                              Message 14 of 16 , Sep 30, 2003
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                                Hi David,I have been over all previous postings,but it still isnt
                                clear to me how many people will sail and camp on your
                                projected trip,please give me a better idea about your project.
                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
                                > Just how hardy are you? And how comfortable do you want to
                                be?
                                >
                                > Hardy? No, no, no, that's not the idea at all!
                                >
                                > The only demand the trip and craft should place in the skipper
                                is the
                                > willingness to be patient if conditions are marginal. To that
                                end,
                                > time both in and out of the boat should be comfortable; warm,
                                dry,
                                > well rested, and well fed.
                                >
                                > The boat should be large enough to carry a proper camp: A
                                large tent,
                                > full kitchen, roll table, folding chairs, tarps and line enough to
                                > make things cozy even in the most torrential rain, an ice chest
                                or
                                > two full of fresh food, etc. I used to make very fine float-in
                                camps
                                > on the rivers out west, and we moved camp every night. On the
                                > proposed cruise, I'd hope to move camp no more often than
                                every other
                                > day. In between would be spent fishing, diving, and
                                lollygagging.
                                >
                                > Once camp is set, the boat should be handy enough to make
                                exploring
                                > the area around camp an inviting option. Stripped of her rig,
                                she
                                > should make a satisfactory motor skiff and/or row boat.
                                >
                                > On board sleeping should only be necessary in the event of a
                                > miscalculation or extremely bad luck, but should be
                                comfortable
                                > enough that no risks are ever taken to avoid it.
                                >
                                > YIBB,
                                >
                                > David
                                > --
                                >
                                > C.E.P.
                                > 415 W.46th Street
                                > New York, New York 10036
                                > http://www.crumblingempire.com
                                > Mobile (646) 325-8325
                                > Office (212) 247-0296
                              • fountainb@switch.aust.com
                                ... Not sure whether you mean self-rescuing as in will tip over but can be righted by crew or self-righting . To get self-righting in that sort of size is
                                Message 15 of 16 , Sep 30, 2003
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                                  David Ryan wrote:
                                  > 1) Self rescuing

                                  Not sure whether you mean self-rescuing as in "will tip
                                  over but can be righted by crew" or "self-righting". To get
                                  self-righting in that sort of size is quite an ask. You need
                                  ballast, something like the Micro, which is not really a small
                                  boat at all, but a big short boat :-).

                                  If you were happy to settle for something with plenty of
                                  positive bouyancy that can be righted by an active crew
                                  then the list of candidates opens up dramatically...

                                  Bruce Fountain
                                  Senior Software Engineer
                                  Union Switch & Signal
                                  Perth, Western Australia
                                • Bruce C. Anderson
                                  Howdy Has anybody built a Camper, design #640? Thanks See Ya Have Fun Bruce http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Oct 1, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Howdy

                                    Has anybody built a Camper, design #640?

                                    Thanks

                                    See Ya

                                    Have Fun

                                    Bruce

                                    http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/
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