Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

A sad day for Alisa

Expand Messages
  • Frank San Miguel
    It s a sad day for Alisa (my AS-29). I ve spent the past few days laying on new sheathing along the opening of the bilgeboard trunks, hoping to eliminate the
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 28, 2003
      It's a sad day for Alisa (my AS-29).

      I've spent the past few days laying on new sheathing along the opening
      of the bilgeboard trunks, hoping to eliminate the leaks. I was hoping
      to launch next weekend to get some October sailing in.

      Then I decided to work inside the cabin. Earlier, I had noticed that
      the inside of the hull in the area along the bulkhead in between the
      aft cabin and the galley looked suspicious underneath some thick
      epoxy. I stuck a chisel in and found soft plywood at least 3/8" down.
      The epoxy had been hiding the problem. I excavated an area 6" x 7'
      (the entire beam of the boat). I was thinking "ok, calm down Frank.
      I can handle this." But then I noticed a crack in the port chine log
      just aft of the port bilgeboard case. I stuck a chisel in it and as
      soon as I penetrated the thick hard shell of epoxy, I found the chine
      log was almost entirely rotten.

      How did I miss such a major problem? Well I knew about most of
      Alisa's problems and knew how to fix them without too much effort, but
      the real problems were lurking under a hard crust of epoxy. I was
      over-confident that I could spot problems because I know how to build
      an AS-29. Naive. I was also wrong in thinking that repairs are
      similar to doing it the first time. That just isn't true. The
      repairs I've done on Alisa are really difficult because I don't have
      good access and the parts are dirty from paint, dirt, etc.

      I have no idea how to fix this problem without disassembling the
      entire galley, bulkhead and both bilgeboard cases. Probably also have
      to replace some or all of bottom. That's just too much work. As I
      mentioned in a prior post, we originally planned to take a 1 year
      family cruise on Alisa, but we postponed the trip and I put her up for
      sale last month. Now I'm not sure what to do, but I may just write
      her off as a total loss.

      If you want to see pictures of what rot can do to your chine logs, visit:
      http://www.fsanmiguel.com/alisa/rot-9-28-03

      If you have some suggestions as to what I should do with Alisa, let me
      know.

      Frank
    • Paul W. Esterle
      Frank, Sorry to see the pics, very sad. Do you have room to work on her at home? One approach would be to lay her on her side with the downward side evenly
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 28, 2003
        Frank,

        Sorry to see the pics, very sad. Do you have room to work on her at home?
        One approach would be to lay her on her side with the downward side evenly
        supported. Strip off the bottom ply and the rout out the chine logs.
        Laminate in new ones and then laminate on a new ply bottom. The hull would
        have to be well supported so it wouldn't wrack with the bottom off. It would
        be some work but not too complicated. Hate to see an AS-29 die!

        Paul


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@...>
        To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 5:50 PM
        Subject: [bolger] A sad day for Alisa


        > It's a sad day for Alisa (my AS-29).
        >
        > I've spent the past few days laying on new sheathing along the opening
        > of the bilgeboard trunks, hoping to eliminate the leaks. I was hoping
        > to launch next weekend to get some October sailing in.
        >
        > Then I decided to work inside the cabin. Earlier, I had noticed that
        > the inside of the hull in the area along the bulkhead in between the
        > aft cabin and the galley looked suspicious underneath some thick
        > epoxy. I stuck a chisel in and found soft plywood at least 3/8" down.
        > The epoxy had been hiding the problem. I excavated an area 6" x 7'
        > (the entire beam of the boat). I was thinking "ok, calm down Frank.
        > I can handle this." But then I noticed a crack in the port chine log
        > just aft of the port bilgeboard case. I stuck a chisel in it and as
        > soon as I penetrated the thick hard shell of epoxy, I found the chine
        > log was almost entirely rotten.
        >
        > How did I miss such a major problem? Well I knew about most of
        > Alisa's problems and knew how to fix them without too much effort, but
        > the real problems were lurking under a hard crust of epoxy. I was
        > over-confident that I could spot problems because I know how to build
        > an AS-29. Naive. I was also wrong in thinking that repairs are
        > similar to doing it the first time. That just isn't true. The
        > repairs I've done on Alisa are really difficult because I don't have
        > good access and the parts are dirty from paint, dirt, etc.
        >
        > I have no idea how to fix this problem without disassembling the
        > entire galley, bulkhead and both bilgeboard cases. Probably also have
        > to replace some or all of bottom. That's just too much work. As I
        > mentioned in a prior post, we originally planned to take a 1 year
        > family cruise on Alisa, but we postponed the trip and I put her up for
        > sale last month. Now I'm not sure what to do, but I may just write
        > her off as a total loss.
        >
        > If you want to see pictures of what rot can do to your chine logs, visit:
        > http://www.fsanmiguel.com/alisa/rot-9-28-03
        >
        > If you have some suggestions as to what I should do with Alisa, let me
        > know.
        >
        > Frank
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
        (978) 282-1349
        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Roger Derby
        Once the shock wears off, you might consider jacking up the deck, superstructure, etc. and putting a new hull under it. Maybe just at the stage where it s
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 28, 2003
          Once the shock wears off, you might consider jacking up the deck,
          superstructure, etc. and putting a new hull under it. Maybe just at the
          stage where it's turned over? Working with new clean lumber, doing a task
          you've practiced once, being sure you've got it all ... The cost should be
          a small fraction of the total investment you've made.

          Just a thought.

          Roger (the insensitive)
          derbyrm@...
          http://derbyrm.mystarband.net

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@...>
          >
          > It's a sad day for Alisa (my AS-29).
          >
          > I've spent the past few days laying on new sheathing along the opening
          > of the bilgeboard trunks, hoping to eliminate the leaks. I was hoping
          > to launch next weekend to get some October sailing in.
          >
          > Then I decided to work inside the cabin. Earlier, I had noticed that
          > the inside of the hull in the area along the bulkhead in between the
          > aft cabin and the galley looked suspicious underneath some thick
          > epoxy. I stuck a chisel in and found soft plywood at least 3/8" down.
          > The epoxy had been hiding the problem. I excavated an area 6" x 7'
          > (the entire beam of the boat). I was thinking "ok, calm down Frank.
          > I can handle this." But then I noticed a crack in the port chine log
          > just aft of the port bilgeboard case. I stuck a chisel in it and as
          > soon as I penetrated the thick hard shell of epoxy, I found the chine
          > log was almost entirely rotten.
          >
          > How did I miss such a major problem? Well I knew about most of
          > Alisa's problems and knew how to fix them without too much effort, but
          > the real problems were lurking under a hard crust of epoxy. I was
          > over-confident that I could spot problems because I know how to build
          > an AS-29. Naive. I was also wrong in thinking that repairs are
          > similar to doing it the first time. That just isn't true. The
          > repairs I've done on Alisa are really difficult because I don't have
          > good access and the parts are dirty from paint, dirt, etc.
          >
          > I have no idea how to fix this problem without disassembling the
          > entire galley, bulkhead and both bilgeboard cases. Probably also have
          > to replace some or all of bottom. That's just too much work. As I
          > mentioned in a prior post, we originally planned to take a 1 year
          > family cruise on Alisa, but we postponed the trip and I put her up for
          > sale last month. Now I'm not sure what to do, but I may just write
          > her off as a total loss.
          >
          > If you want to see pictures of what rot can do to your chine logs, visit:
          > http://www.fsanmiguel.com/alisa/rot-9-28-03
          >
          > If you have some suggestions as to what I should do with Alisa, let me
          > know.
          >
          > Frank
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
          > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
          > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
          > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
          (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • John Bell
          Bummer! I don t have any answers. Perhaps with some time to think things over you ll figure out fixing her up won t be as bad or as hard as you think. Do you
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 28, 2003
            Bummer!

            I don't have any answers. Perhaps with some time to think things over you'll
            figure out fixing her up won't be as bad or as hard as you think.

            Do you think the epoxy encapsulation helped or hurt in your situation?

            JB



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@...>
            To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 5:50 PM
            Subject: [bolger] A sad day for Alisa


            | It's a sad day for Alisa (my AS-29).
            |
            | I've spent the past few days laying on new sheathing along the opening
            | of the bilgeboard trunks, hoping to eliminate the leaks. I was hoping
            | to launch next weekend to get some October sailing in.
            |
          • vexatious2001
            ... If you have not seen the book, Covering Wooden Boats With Fiberglass, by Allan H. Vaitses, copyright 1981 and 1989 by International Marine, you ought to
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 28, 2003
              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
              > It's a sad day for Alisa (my AS-29).
              >



              If you have not seen the book, "Covering Wooden Boats
              With Fiberglass," by Allan H. Vaitses, copyright 1981 and 1989
              by International Marine, you ought to have a look at it.

              Mr Vaitses, a verteran boat builder, has "saved" many old
              wooden boats with structural problems by covering them
              with multiple layers of fiberglass mat and roving and
              polyester resin.

              He does not rely on the polyester resin to hold the fiberglass
              shell to the boat, but rather mechanically fastens the first
              layer or two to the hull by driving in throusands of staples
              with an air-driven staple gun.

              He then builds-up what amounts to a complete fiberglass
              hull (not just a sheathing) over the existing hull.


              Since the fiberglass is mechanically held by the staples, he
              usually did not bother removing the existing paint from the
              hull. And since he uses such a heavy glass laminate, the
              condition of the wood underneath matters little, most of
              the time.

              The boat would be heavier, but since the size of the hull
              is increased by the thickness of the glass, the boat may
              not float any deeper in the water,


              An author of several books on marine repair, maine surveying,
              and also lofting, one has to take his method seriously.

              The U.S. Coast Guard does; they specifically mention his
              method, by name, in their NAVIC 7-95, which concerns the
              inspection and repair of passenger-carrying wood boats:

              http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/nvic/7_95/n7-95.htm


              If the rest of the boat is in such condition that the
              investment in polyester resin and glass is warranted,
              it is worth looking into.


              Max
            • Bruce Hallman
              ... I would fix it by adding a layer of plywood to the sides, then apply an external chine log, and then tip the boat on its side to add a layer of plywood to
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 29, 2003
                --- Frank San Miguel wrote:
                > It's a sad day for Alisa (my AS-29).

                I would fix it by adding a
                layer of plywood to the sides,
                then apply an external chine log,
                and then tip the boat on its side
                to add a layer of plywood to the
                bottom.

                I would also want to try the
                George Buehler trick of using cheapo
                'tar based' roofing patch compound
                as the adhesive between the existing
                plywood and the new plywood.

                If you don't think tar is sticky
                enough, do a test.
              • mikestockstill
                Hi Frank- Let me offer the following perspective: http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/deconstruction/ I think your repair is small by comparison. Get
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 1, 2003
                  Hi Frank-

                  Let me offer the following perspective:

                  http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/deconstruction/

                  I think your repair is small by comparison.

                  Get a saw, cut out the bad stuff, and rescue your boat! It doesn't have to look
                  perfect
                  either - it just needs to be safe and secure.

                  You will have this finished in time for your cruise.

                  Have at it!

                  Mike


                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
                  > It's a sad day for Alisa (my AS-29).

                  ...snip...

                  >
                  > If you want to see pictures of what rot can do to your chine logs, visit:
                  > http://www.fsanmiguel.com/alisa/rot-9-28-03
                  >
                  > If you have some suggestions as to what I should do with Alisa, let me
                  > know.
                  >
                  > Frank
                • Bruce Hallman
                  ... I agree! After looking again at the AS-29 drawings, the off-centerboard wells could be totally rebuilt without removing the interior cabinetry. Take a
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 2, 2003
                    > Get a saw, cut out the bad stuff, and rescue your
                    > boat! It doesn't have to look perfect

                    I agree! After looking again at the
                    AS-29 drawings, the off-centerboard
                    wells could be totally rebuilt without
                    removing the interior cabinetry. Take a
                    saw to the exterior hull, rebuild the
                    wells and patch back the hull by lapping
                    on some plywood.

                    I the worse case, the boat could 'swell'
                    out another inch at that location, so what!
                  • Bruce Hallman
                    ... Oh yes, another reason to fix the off-center board wells from the exterior, is that if you were to try to gain access from the interior, you would need to
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 2, 2003
                      --- Bruce Hallman wrote:
                      > Take a saw to the exterior hull,

                      Oh yes, another reason to fix
                      the off-center board wells from
                      the exterior, is that if you were
                      to try to gain access from the
                      interior, you would need to move
                      the *large* lead ballast bars
                      hiding beneath the cabinets.
                    • Richard Spelling
                      I shouldn t be that hard to patch a hole cut in the extrenal hull and make it near perfect, either. ... From: Bruce Hallman To:
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 2, 2003
                        I shouldn't be that hard to patch a hole cut in the extrenal hull and make it near perfect, either.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
                        To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:11 AM
                        Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: A sad day for Alisa -- not so!


                        > --- Bruce Hallman wrote:
                        > > Take a saw to the exterior hull,
                        >
                        > Oh yes, another reason to fix
                        > the off-center board wells from
                        > the exterior, is that if you were
                        > to try to gain access from the
                        > interior, you would need to move
                        > the *large* lead ballast bars
                        > hiding beneath the cabinets.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bolger rules!!!
                        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                        > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                        > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                      • Frank San Miguel
                        Thanks Mike, Bruce and Richard! For the ideas *and* encouragement. ok - I ll summarize the idea: - Cut holes the sides - fix the chines and rebuild the wells
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 2, 2003
                          Thanks Mike, Bruce and Richard! For the ideas *and* encouragement.

                          ok - I'll summarize the idea:

                          - Cut holes the sides
                          - fix the chines and rebuild the wells
                          - scarf in some new side pieces

                          Sounds like a good plan to me. I only need to replace parts below the
                          waterline (slightly above) so I'll be scarfing the timbers and
                          exterior ply and using butt blocks for inboard sides of the bilgeboard
                          wells.

                          Mike, how did you fasten your new plywood panels - scarfing or butt
                          blocks?

                          Frank

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...> wrote:
                          > I shouldn't be that hard to patch a hole cut in the extrenal hull
                          and make it near perfect, either.
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@h...>
                          > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:11 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: A sad day for Alisa -- not so!
                          >
                          >
                          > > --- Bruce Hallman wrote:
                          > > > Take a saw to the exterior hull,
                          > >
                          > > Oh yes, another reason to fix
                          > > the off-center board wells from
                          > > the exterior, is that if you were
                          > > to try to gain access from the
                          > > interior, you would need to move
                          > > the *large* lead ballast bars
                          > > hiding beneath the cabinets.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Bolger rules!!!
                          > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                          > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
                          posts
                          > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                          > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                          01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                          > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > >
                          > >
                        • Richard Spelling
                          I d put butt blocks on the inside to hold everything together, and lay some glass over the joint on the outside, in order to fair the joint smooth and
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 2, 2003
                            I'd put butt blocks on the inside to hold everything together, and lay some glass over the joint on the outside, in order to fair
                            the joint smooth and invisible from the rest of the hull.

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@...>
                            To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:39 PM
                            Subject: [bolger] Re: A sad day for Alisa -- not so!


                            > Thanks Mike, Bruce and Richard! For the ideas *and* encouragement.
                            >
                            > ok - I'll summarize the idea:
                            >
                            > - Cut holes the sides
                            > - fix the chines and rebuild the wells
                            > - scarf in some new side pieces
                            >
                            > Sounds like a good plan to me. I only need to replace parts below the
                            > waterline (slightly above) so I'll be scarfing the timbers and
                            > exterior ply and using butt blocks for inboard sides of the bilgeboard
                            > wells.
                            >
                            > Mike, how did you fasten your new plywood panels - scarfing or butt
                            > blocks?
                            >
                            > Frank
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...> wrote:
                            > > I shouldn't be that hard to patch a hole cut in the extrenal hull
                            > and make it near perfect, either.
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@h...>
                            > > To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:11 AM
                            > > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: A sad day for Alisa -- not so!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > --- Bruce Hallman wrote:
                            > > > > Take a saw to the exterior hull,
                            > > >
                            > > > Oh yes, another reason to fix
                            > > > the off-center board wells from
                            > > > the exterior, is that if you were
                            > > > to try to gain access from the
                            > > > interior, you would need to move
                            > > > the *large* lead ballast bars
                            > > > hiding beneath the cabinets.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Bolger rules!!!
                            > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                            > > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
                            > posts
                            > > > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                            > > > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                            > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                            > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > >
                            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Bolger rules!!!
                            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                            > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                            > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                          • mikestockstill
                            Definitely go with butt blocks. The only thing I did that could pass loosely has a scarf is the chine - note from the earlier link the 45 degree cut, and the
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 3, 2003
                              Definitely go with butt blocks. The only thing I did that could pass loosely has
                              a scarf is the chine - note from the earlier link the 45 degree cut, and the bit of
                              extra length of plywood I added to make the sheet longer. But for actually
                              joining the new ply to the existing, I used what the plans call a "reinforcing
                              strap. This is a long 3"x1"(2 layers of 1/2") piece that runs along the upper
                              horizontal edge of the ply side that remained after the midshipectomy. See

                              http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/frame_construction/

                              Each end had also a vertical butt block - much wider, but not as thick.

                              Mike


                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
                              > Mike, how did you fasten your new plywood panels - scarfing or butt
                              > blocks?
                            • Peter Lenihan
                              ... pass loosely has ... cut, and the bit of ... actually ... a reinforcing ... along the upper ... midshipectomy. See ... thick. ... Frank, Mike is
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 3, 2003
                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mikestockstill" <mkstocks@b...> wrote:
                                > Definitely go with butt blocks. The only thing I did that could
                                pass loosely has
                                > a scarf is the chine - note from the earlier link the 45 degree
                                cut, and the bit of
                                > extra length of plywood I added to make the sheet longer. But for
                                actually
                                > joining the new ply to the existing, I used what the plans call
                                a "reinforcing
                                > strap. This is a long 3"x1"(2 layers of 1/2") piece that runs
                                along the upper
                                > horizontal edge of the ply side that remained after the
                                midshipectomy. See
                                >
                                > http://mkstocks.tripod.com/boats/martha_jane/frame_construction/
                                >
                                > Each end had also a vertical butt block - much wider, but not as
                                thick.
                                >
                                > Mike


                                Frank,
                                Mike is obviously the real "surgeon" in the gang and his
                                experience is valuable.
                                Just to add to the plywood joining ideas,I've used a number of
                                times a thing I call the "Butt-Scarf". What this is esentially is a
                                butt strap let into the panels you wish to join without the unsightly
                                excrescence of the butt strap reminding you forever of what lays
                                underneath.
                                With the 1/2" side panels,you would/could router out 1/4" of the
                                side panel to a width equal to the width of your intended butt strap
                                which would be,of course,1/4" thick. Mix up a nice thick batch of
                                epoxy after pre-coating the exposed landings and clamp the sucker
                                together with clamps,srews or whatever works best for your
                                situation.Screws work well and it is a breeze to later seal up the
                                little screw holes.Done with attention to detail and some care,you'll
                                have a hard time seeing where"it" is once painted over :-)
                                Also,a whole lot quicker and"easier" to get right then a true
                                scarf.


                                Sincerely,

                                Peter Lenihan
                              • Frank San Miguel
                                Sam Devlin describes something simiar. Sounds practical to me! Thanks. Frank
                                Message 15 of 15 , Oct 3, 2003
                                  Sam Devlin describes something simiar. Sounds practical to me! Thanks.

                                  Frank

                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <lestat@b...> wrote:
                                  > Frank,
                                  > Mike is obviously the real "surgeon" in the gang and his
                                  > experience is valuable.
                                  > Just to add to the plywood joining ideas,I've used a number of
                                  > times a thing I call the "Butt-Scarf". What this is esentially is a
                                  > butt strap let into the panels you wish to join without the unsightly
                                  > excrescence of the butt strap reminding you forever of what lays
                                  > underneath.
                                  > With the 1/2" side panels,you would/could router out 1/4" of the
                                  > side panel to a width equal to the width of your intended butt strap
                                  > which would be,of course,1/4" thick. Mix up a nice thick batch of
                                  > epoxy after pre-coating the exposed landings and clamp the sucker
                                  > together with clamps,srews or whatever works best for your
                                  > situation.Screws work well and it is a breeze to later seal up the
                                  > little screw holes.Done with attention to detail and some care,you'll
                                  > have a hard time seeing where"it" is once painted over :-)
                                  > Also,a whole lot quicker and"easier" to get right then a true
                                  > scarf.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Sincerely,
                                  >
                                  > Peter Lenihan
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.