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Gardner Live aboard scow?????

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  • Hugo Tyson
    Q. Does anyone know where plans for the Gardner liveaboard scow can be obtained? Tom on Sandpiper. Do you mean John Gardner of Building Classic Small Craft
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 5 8:02 AM
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      Q. Does anyone know where plans for the Gardner liveaboard scow can be obtained?
      Tom on Sandpiper.

      Do you mean John Gardner of Building Classic Small Craft Books and National Fisherman fame or William(Bill) Garden from British Columbia.?Or is it someone or even something entirely different?




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    • bigeddytom
      ... be obtained? ... National Fisherman fame or William(Bill) Garden from British Columbia.?Or is it someone or even something entirely different? ... name
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 5 4:21 PM
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@y...> wrote:
        > Q. Does anyone know where plans for the Gardner liveaboard scow can
        be obtained?
        > Tom on Sandpiper.
        >
        > Do you mean John Gardner of Building Classic Small Craft Books and
        National Fisherman fame or William(Bill) Garden from British
        Columbia.?Or is it someone or even something entirely different?
        >
        >
        > I am sorry. Not only was I not very specific I even spelled the
        name incorrectly. I mean the William Garden Liveaboard Scow. A
        thumbnail sketch of it is shown in the file section of the Bolger2
        yahoo group. Tom on Sandpiper.
        >
      • bshamblin2002
        the idea oe a liveaboard scow is and interesting one which i would like to hear more about. pcb suggests he tried to think of how to make one on the SCOW
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 6 2:42 AM
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          the idea oe a liveaboard scow is and interesting one which i would
          like to hear more about. pcb suggests he tried to think of how to
          make one on the SCOW SCHOONER article and then in SUPERBRICK suggests
          that sailing a hull like that would be a battering and a "bone in the
          teeth"? to sail ( 20x8' with straight non-curved sides).

          i always thought SCOWSCHOONER hull would be a fine place to start for
          a scow livaboard, either full sized, but for me, as a 20x7-8' hull
          with a central 4x8' cabin arranged longways for 2 foot walkways on
          each side, and a good sized standing lug rig with 2 rows of reef
          points. she would have dual big kick up rudders on the transon with a
          small outboard mount and a boarding ladder built into each rudder.
          ther would be 2 linked tillers.

          the decks would be entirely flat for sleeping out in the
          uninterrupted breeze. kitchen would be cook out on deck cuisiene.
          bathroom would by rain, tide and showerbag.

          her mast could pivot down for bridges without standing rigging.

          some of me is already living on this boat north of the keys in
          florida bay. sprouts are growing in a glass pickle jar for the salad
          tonight.

          bill










          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bigeddytom" <TOMCBRADY@C...> wrote:
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@y...> wrote:
          > > Q. Does anyone know where plans for the Gardner liveaboard scow
          can
          > be obtained?
          > > Tom on Sandpiper.
          > >
          > > Do you mean John Gardner of Building Classic Small Craft Books
          and
          > National Fisherman fame or William(Bill) Garden from British
          > Columbia.?Or is it someone or even something entirely different?
          > >
          > >
          > > I am sorry. Not only was I not very specific I even spelled the
          > name incorrectly. I mean the William Garden Liveaboard Scow. A
          > thumbnail sketch of it is shown in the file section of the Bolger2
          > yahoo group. Tom on Sandpiper.
          > >
        • John S Harper
          Ruel Parker has a couple of scow designs. http://www.parker-marine.com/ Maybe a little bigger than you want but for a liveaboard....
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 6 9:57 AM
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            Ruel Parker has a couple of scow designs.

            http://www.parker-marine.com/

            Maybe a little bigger than you want but for a liveaboard....

            http://www.parker-marine.com/45scshoonerpage.htm


            "bshamblin2002" <shamblin@...> on 08/06/2003 05:42:10 AM

            Please respond to bolger@yahoogroups.com

            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            cc:
            Subject: [bolger] Re: Gardner Live aboard scow?????



            the idea oe a liveaboard scow is and interesting one which i would
            like to hear more about. pcb suggests he tried to think of how to
            make one on the SCOW SCHOONER article and then in SUPERBRICK suggests
            that sailing a hull like that would be a battering and a "bone in the
            teeth"? to sail ( 20x8' with straight non-curved sides).

            i always thought SCOWSCHOONER hull would be a fine place to start for
            a scow livaboard, either full sized, but for me, as a 20x7-8' hull
            with a central 4x8' cabin arranged longways for 2 foot walkways on
            each side, and a good sized standing lug rig with 2 rows of reef
            points. she would have dual big kick up rudders on the transon with a
            small outboard mount and a boarding ladder built into each rudder.
            ther would be 2 linked tillers.

            the decks would be entirely flat for sleeping out in the
            uninterrupted breeze. kitchen would be cook out on deck cuisiene.
            bathroom would by rain, tide and showerbag.

            her mast could pivot down for bridges without standing rigging.

            some of me is already living on this boat north of the keys in
            florida bay. sprouts are growing in a glass pickle jar for the salad
            tonight.

            bill










            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bigeddytom" <TOMCBRADY@C...> wrote:
            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@y...> wrote:
            > > Q. Does anyone know where plans for the Gardner liveaboard scow
            can
            > be obtained?
            > > Tom on Sandpiper.
            > >
            > > Do you mean John Gardner of Building Classic Small Craft Books
            and
            > National Fisherman fame or William(Bill) Garden from British
            > Columbia.?Or is it someone or even something entirely different?
            > >
            > >
            > > I am sorry. Not only was I not very specific I even spelled the
            > name incorrectly. I mean the William Garden Liveaboard Scow. A
            > thumbnail sketch of it is shown in the file section of the Bolger2
            > yahoo group. Tom on Sandpiper.
            > >



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          • pvanderwaart
            ... Bolger did design a 35 liveaboard scow schooner. He opines it would be a handy coastal cruiser (assuming all the housekeeping knickknacks were carefully
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 6 10:11 AM
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              > Ruel Parker has a couple of scow designs.
              > pcb suggests he tried to think of how to
              > make one on the SCOW SCHOONER article...

              Bolger did design a 35' liveaboard scow schooner. He opines it would
              be a handy coastal cruiser (assuming all the housekeeping knickknacks
              were carefully stowed). It's a different hull concept from Parker's,
              and it's supposed to sail at an angle of heel to prevent the tooth
              chattering behavior is a similar manner to a sharpie.

              It a very different thing than a alive-aboard barge that is expected
              to be lived-in at dockside.

              What size vessel is wanted here?

              Peter
            • stephensonhw@aol.com
              I think the Bolger and Parker designs would be a lot more capable, and a lot more expensive than the Garden scow houseboat, which was designed for a student to
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 6 10:49 PM
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                I think the Bolger and Parker designs would be a lot more capable, and a lot more expensive than the Garden scow houseboat, which was designed for a student to live aboard. The Garden design was featured in either one of his books "Yacht Designs" or "Yacht Designs II". Try to find out which one it is and get hold of the book through your local library -- or borrow them both, they're good reading. I can't remember now, but there could even be enough info. in the book to allow you to build the boat. I don't think Garden would sue you for breach of copyright.

                Howard

                In a message dated 8/6/2003 1:11:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pvanderw@... writes:

                > > Ruel Parker has a couple of scow designs.
                > > pcb suggests he tried to think of how to
                > > make one on the SCOW SCHOONER article...
                >
                > Bolger did design a 35' liveaboard scow schooner. He opines it would
                > be a handy coastal cruiser (assuming all the housekeeping knickknacks
                > were carefully stowed). It's a different hull concept from Parker's,
                > and it's supposed to sail at an angle of heel to prevent
                > the tooth
                > chattering behavior is a similar manner to a sharpie.
              • dbaldnz
                Up until a couple of years ago, a scow looking very like Gardens Tillikum sat on the mud, only a km from where I sit. She had sat for several years, I doubt
                Message 7 of 22 , Aug 7 2:24 AM
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                  Up until a couple of years ago, a scow looking very like Gardens
                  Tillikum sat on the mud, only a km from where I sit. She had sat for
                  several years, I doubt liveaboard. A bit of deterioration, the odd
                  gale, water getting in, a mast fell down, rot no doubt as well.
                  Eventually, well and truely bogged into the mud.
                  Last I saw of her was when a barge arrived alongside at high water,
                  with a large digger on board. She disappeared slowly as large maw
                  sized bites, into the barge hold.
                  Sad really.
                  DonB
                • mat_man22
                  ... I did this for this boat and did not find enough info to build. Mat
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 7 10:13 AM
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, stephensonhw@a... wrote:
                    > Try to find out which one it is and get hold of the book through
                    >your local library -- or borrow them both, they're good reading. I
                    >can't remember now, but there could even be enough info. in the book
                    >to allow you to build the boat.

                    I did this for this boat and did not find enough info to build.


                    Mat
                  • bigeddytom
                    ... Hey Mat, Which book did you find the scow in and about how much info was there in the book, if you remember. So far the Garden scow appeals to me more than
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 7 2:48 PM
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mat_man22" <mat_man@u...> wrote:
                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, stephensonhw@a... wrote:
                      > > Try to find out which one it is and get hold of the book through
                      > >your local library -- or borrow them both, they're good reading. I
                      > >can't remember now, but there could even be enough info. in the book
                      > >to allow you to build the boat.
                      >
                      > I did this for this boat and did not find enough info to build.
                      >
                      >
                      > Mat
                      Hey Mat,
                      Which book did you find the scow in and about how much info was
                      there in the book, if you remember. So far the Garden scow appeals to
                      me more than any of the other ones I have been able to find pictures
                      of. It seems to have alot of room in a manageable size. It has
                      standing headroom in 24' which in itself is unusual yet it does not
                      look boxy or top heavy. I searched Woodenboat Forum and read alot
                      about scows and saw many pictures but don't yet know how or where to
                      order plans for Garden boats. Parker Marine and Delvin scows don't
                      appeal to me. Bolgers scow schooner looks neat but is somewhat larger
                      and would need more accommodations for my purposes. Tom on Sandpiper
                    • John Spoering
                      HI ALL - DIDN T I READ HERE JUST THE OTHER DAY THAT GARDEN HAS RETIRED AND THE EDITOR OF WOODENBOAT MAG IS HANDELING HIS PLAN SALES ? SUGGUEST EMAILING
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 7 3:15 PM
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                        HI ALL -

                        DIDN'T I READ HERE JUST THE OTHER DAY THAT GARDEN HAS RETIRED AND THE EDITOR OF "WOODENBOAT" MAG IS HANDELING HIS PLAN SALES ? SUGGUEST EMAILING THE MAG AND SEEING IF THEY CAN DO SOMETHING AS THE PLANS SHOWN IN GARDENS FIRST BOOK ARE NOT COMPLETE ENOUGH TO BUILD FROM.

                        ALOHA - JACK FT. LAUDERDALE, FL

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • mat_man22
                        Hi Sandpiper From memory Oyster (24 Live aboard scow) is in Yacht Designs II. The table of contents for Yacht Designs (first) is on Amazon.com and does not
                        Message 11 of 22 , Aug 7 10:16 PM
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                          Hi Sandpiper

                          From memory Oyster (24' Live aboard scow) is in
                          Yacht Designs II. The table of contents for Yacht
                          Designs (first) is on Amazon.com and does not contain Oyster.

                          The first 2 pages on Oyster from Yacht Designs II
                          are scanned in the files section on one of the 3
                          Bolger groups and the Garden group (all Yahoo).
                          The 3rd page has some plans sections but very incomplete.

                          Please re-read my other post:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/29990

                          Contact Wooden boat first, they sell many plans and may
                          have this one on the shelf.

                          Please report back if you find them.

                          Oyster does have a V bottom and I might go with a
                          modified Pelican design myself to get the flat bottom.
                          I think the largest Pelican built is 22' to 24'.

                          Best of luck

                          Mat
                        • stephensonhw@aol.com
                          ... Tom, Maybe you could write and ask Mystic Seaport museum. An alternative would be to get someone to design a copy of it, using one of the hull-design
                          Message 12 of 22 , Aug 7 11:01 PM
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                            In a message dated 8/7/2003 5:48:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, TOMCBRADY@... writes:

                            > Which book did you find the scow in and about how much info was
                            > there in the book, if you remember. So far the Garden scow appeals to
                            > me more than any of the other ones I have been able to find
                            > pictures

                            Tom,

                            Maybe you could write and ask Mystic Seaport museum. An alternative would be to get someone to "design" a copy of it, using one of the hull-design programs that would turn out frame shapes, or panel shapes if you built it stitch-and-glue. It's a really simple shape and, as I recall, the Garden drawing at least shows a fair amount of detail on scantlings and construction.

                            Howard
                          • pvanderwaart
                            Relative to pram and scow vessels, for his first cartoon for Small Boat Journal, PCB sketched a leeboard pram about 20 long. It was a substantial cruising
                            Message 13 of 22 , Aug 8 5:43 AM
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                              Relative to pram and scow vessels, for his first cartoon for Small
                              Boat Journal, PCB sketched a leeboard pram about 20' long. It was a
                              substantial cruising vessel of about 5000lbs displacement. So far as
                              I know, the matter stopped with the cartoon. At least I've never seen
                              anything else. Anyone have additional info?

                              Peter
                            • bigeddytom
                              ... Hello Mat, I read your 29990 post again and THANKS. I noticed on the scan pages that it looked like Garden s scow had some deadrise and also thought about
                              Message 14 of 22 , Aug 8 1:01 PM
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                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mat_man22" <mat_man@u...> wrote:
                                > Hi Sandpiper
                                >
                                > From memory Oyster (24' Live aboard scow) is in
                                > Yacht Designs II. The table of contents for Yacht
                                > Designs (first) is on Amazon.com and does not contain Oyster.
                                >
                                > The first 2 pages on Oyster from Yacht Designs II
                                > are scanned in the files section on one of the 3
                                > Bolger groups and the Garden group (all Yahoo).
                                > The 3rd page has some plans sections but very incomplete.
                                >
                                > Please re-read my other post:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/29990
                                >
                                > Contact Wooden boat first, they sell many plans and may
                                > have this one on the shelf.
                                >
                                > Please report back if you find them.
                                >
                                > Oyster does have a V bottom and I might go with a
                                > modified Pelican design myself to get the flat bottom.
                                > I think the largest Pelican built is 22' to 24'.
                                >
                                > Best of luck
                                >
                                > Mat
                                Hello Mat,
                                I read your 29990 post again and THANKS. I noticed on the scan pages
                                that it looked like Garden's scow had some deadrise and also thought
                                about looking for one that didn't have any. Your idea of an oversized
                                Pelican was one I had contemplated and I think might be a valid
                                approach. I really was not looking for as heavy a boat as some of the
                                scows I have look at seem to be. I was considering plywood stitch and
                                glue or tack and glue formed around bulkheads for a lighter weight,
                                however, Garden's scow couldn't be very heavy at least judging by the
                                waterline and how little rocker the hull carries. Oh well, I will keep
                                looking. Thanks again for your response. Tom on Sandpiper.
                              • Ken Locarnini
                                I really like the Gardener Scow. Does anyone know the beam? Thats what I m personally looking for in a boat. Any design I am considering should be a
                                Message 15 of 22 , Aug 8 3:37 PM
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                                  I really like the Gardener Scow. Does anyone know the beam? Thats what I'm personally looking for in a boat. Any design I am considering should be a liveaboard, and trailerable. I would like a good combo of motor and sail though I've never sailed in my life. I was also looking at a somewhat though sleeker design with really good interior space.
                                  http://www.brayyachtdesign.bc.ca/
                                  Check out the freestyle 27 under motorsailers.
                                  Ken
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: mat_man22
                                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:16 PM
                                  Subject: [bolger] Re: Gardner Live aboard scow?????


                                  Hi Sandpiper

                                  From memory Oyster (24' Live aboard scow) is in
                                  Yacht Designs II. The table of contents for Yacht
                                  Designs (first) is on Amazon.com and does not contain Oyster.

                                  The first 2 pages on Oyster from Yacht Designs II
                                  are scanned in the files section on one of the 3
                                  Bolger groups and the Garden group (all Yahoo).
                                  The 3rd page has some plans sections but very incomplete.

                                  Please re-read my other post:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/29990

                                  Contact Wooden boat first, they sell many plans and may
                                  have this one on the shelf.

                                  Please report back if you find them.

                                  Oyster does have a V bottom and I might go with a
                                  modified Pelican design myself to get the flat bottom.
                                  I think the largest Pelican built is 22' to 24'.

                                  Best of luck

                                  Mat


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                                  Bolger rules!!!
                                  - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                                  - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                  - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
                                  - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                  - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • mat_man22
                                  Hi Tom Oyster s price of standing headroom and sailing ability should require a good amount of lead ballast, drawing looks like it says 1800 lbs. Stability
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Aug 8 5:30 PM
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                                    Hi Tom

                                    Oyster's price of standing headroom and sailing
                                    ability should require a good amount of lead ballast,
                                    drawing looks like it says 1800 lbs. Stability goes
                                    up with the cube of the beam. A scow should require
                                    less ballast with greater beam. A 24' Pelican could
                                    have a beam in the range of 9.5 to 10 feet (the 18'
                                    Pelican has 8') compared to 8' of the Oyster.
                                    What is the ballast of the 20' x 8' Superbrick?

                                    Mat
                                  • bigeddytom
                                    ... Hey Mat, Actually if you took the original SF Pelican and multiplied by 1.5 you would have a 24 x12 as the original SFP is 16 x8 . In PB s book BWAOM the
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Aug 8 6:24 PM
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                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mat_man22" <mat_man@u...> wrote:
                                      > Hi Tom
                                      >
                                      > Oyster's price of standing headroom and sailing
                                      > ability should require a good amount of lead ballast,
                                      > drawing looks like it says 1800 lbs. Stability goes
                                      > up with the cube of the beam. A scow should require
                                      > less ballast with greater beam. A 24' Pelican could
                                      > have a beam in the range of 9.5 to 10 feet (the 18'
                                      > Pelican has 8') compared to 8' of the Oyster.
                                      > What is the ballast of the 20' x 8' Superbrick?
                                      >
                                      > Mat
                                      Hey Mat,
                                      Actually if you took the original SF Pelican and multiplied by 1.5
                                      you would have a 24'x12' as the original SFP is 16'x8'. In PB's book
                                      BWAOM the plans for Superbrick don't show any ballast per se but it
                                      shows a waterline for a weight of 3350 pounds. PB usually leaves a
                                      pretty realistic allowance for user supplied stuff so I don't think
                                      the actual dead ballast would be very large.
                                      With the Oyster having deadrise which I really don't want to build
                                      and 1800 lbs of ballast which indicates a heavier boat than I thought
                                      it would be I think I will just keep looking. I haven't decided that I
                                      want another liveaboard yet but I keep thinking about it. Of course
                                      after 4 years of living on land I tend to forget the objectionable
                                      parts about livingaboard. I guess I will just keep sailing my Peep Hen
                                      for now. I don't guess it hurts to dream and remember. It must be
                                      kinda like pain you know it really hurt but you really can't remember
                                      the really bad part to well. Thanks for the reponse. Tom on Sandpiper.
                                    • mat_man22
                                      Hi Tom Lars and Principles of Yatch Design has scaling ratios. If the length of the boat goes up by 1.5 the beam, depth and freeboard should go up by 1.33
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Aug 8 9:35 PM
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                                        Hi Tom

                                        Lars and 'Principles of Yatch Design' has scaling
                                        ratios. If the length of the boat goes up by 1.5 the
                                        beam, depth and freeboard should go up by 1.33 to keep
                                        the boat in the same performance family. You can read
                                        this on bottom of exert 7 at:

                                        http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
                                        /0071353933/ref=lib_dp_sp_1/002-0275704-

                                        If my math is correct then:
                                        9.77' beam based on 18'x8' Super Pelican
                                        10.64' beam based on 16'x8' Great Pelican

                                        The Superbrick looks like it has a smaller sail compared
                                        to Oyster and this would help keep ballast down.

                                        Mat
                                      • bigeddytom
                                        ... Hey Mat, I didn t known there was such a thing as scaling ratios. All I was doing was doubling everything EXCEPT the cost which was probably going up by a
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Aug 9 7:48 AM
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                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "mat_man22" <mat_man@u...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi Tom
                                          >
                                          > Lars and 'Principles of Yatch Design' has scaling
                                          > ratios. If the length of the boat goes up by 1.5 the
                                          > beam, depth and freeboard should go up by 1.33 to keep
                                          > the boat in the same performance family. You can read
                                          > this on bottom of exert 7 at:
                                          >
                                          > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
                                          > /0071353933/ref=lib_dp_sp_1/002-0275704-
                                          >
                                          > If my math is correct then:
                                          > 9.77' beam based on 18'x8' Super Pelican
                                          > 10.64' beam based on 16'x8' Great Pelican
                                          >
                                          > The Superbrick looks like it has a smaller sail compared
                                          > to Oyster and this would help keep ballast down.
                                          >
                                          > Mat
                                          Hey Mat,
                                          I didn't known there was such a thing as scaling ratios. All I was
                                          doing was doubling everything EXCEPT the cost which was probably going
                                          up by a factor of 4 or 5. WOW a Great Pelican 24' long with a beam of
                                          10'7'' would certainly be a roomy boat. The bottom beam would be just
                                          about right for an 8' sheet of plywood cross ways. Interesting. Thanks
                                          Tom on Sandpiper
                                        • David Romasco
                                          OK, fellow Bolgeradoes, Here s the official word from Mystic Seaport on the Bill Garden plans situation (the Garden Collection is #96 in their archives):
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Aug 9 9:33 AM
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                                            OK, fellow Bolgeradoes,



                                            Here's the 'official' word from Mystic Seaport on the Bill Garden plans
                                            situation (the Garden Collection is #96 in their archives):

                                            Some of the vessel designs of William Garden, N.A. are preserved at the
                                            Ships Plans library and archives of Mystic Seaport Museum, Inc. The
                                            plans which are here represent Mr. Garden's work when he was living in
                                            the US and are primarily the vessels found in his first book, "Yacht
                                            Designs." That particular edition is out of print - however there is a
                                            new expanded version "Yacht Designs, Revised and Expanded." I refer
                                            people to these books if they are generally interested in information
                                            about Bill or his designs. If we do not have a particular set of plans,
                                            we refer the researcher right back to Bill Garden.

                                            The Ships Plans area of our website lists only the plans from our Mystic
                                            Seaport Watercraft list. This list mainly consists of vessels and ship
                                            models you will see while visiting the museum, or plans drawn from
                                            measurements taken off watercraft we do not own which are being studied
                                            for their research value. This is a very large library with over 100,000
                                            plans in the collection.

                                            The website also contains a section of text providing helpful
                                            information on how to do research in the Ships Plans library. I always
                                            suggest that researchers look in Bill's 3 books, or narrow down their
                                            choices before they ask us to search for them to save the expense of a
                                            research fee. If we have to do extensive digging to assist a library
                                            patron the cost is $20.00 per hour. Most people are able to narrow down
                                            their requests for information about the designs of Mr. Garden using the
                                            published sources.
                                            I hope this information is helpful to you.

                                            Sincerely,
                                            Ellen Stone,
                                            Ships Plans Collection Manager
                                            Mystic Seaport Museum

                                            The contact info is:

                                            Museum Watercraft Plans Collection
                                            Mystic Seaport Museum, Inc.
                                            P.O. Box 6000
                                            Mystic, CT 06355-0990

                                            Phone: 860-572-5360

                                            Email: boatlines@...





                                            Best of luck!



                                            David Romasco













                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • John Spoering
                                            HI ALL - JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT IF YOU GO TO THE PELICAN WEB SITE OR EMAIL MRS SHORT DIRECTLY THEY HAVE INFORMATION AND PICTURES ON SITE OF PELIS IN THE
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Aug 9 12:46 PM
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                                              HI ALL -

                                              JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT IF YOU GO TO THE PELICAN WEB SITE OR EMAIL MRS SHORT DIRECTLY THEY HAVE INFORMATION AND PICTURES ON SITE OF "PELIS" IN THE 18 - 24' RANGE.

                                              GOOD LUCK - ALOHA - JACK SPOERING - FT LAUDERDALE, FL

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • bigeddytom
                                              ... SITE OR EMAIL MRS SHORT DIRECTLY THEY HAVE INFORMATION AND PICTURES ON SITE OF PELIS IN THE 18 - 24 RANGE. ... GOOD LUCK - ALOHA - JACK SPOERING - FT
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Aug 9 9:13 PM
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                                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Spoering" <spoering@e...> wrote:
                                                > HI ALL -
                                                >
                                                > JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT IF YOU GO TO THE PELICAN WEB
                                                SITE OR EMAIL MRS SHORT DIRECTLY THEY HAVE INFORMATION AND PICTURES ON
                                                SITE OF "PELIS" IN THE 18 - 24' RANGE.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                GOOD LUCK - ALOHA - JACK SPOERING - FT LAUDERDALE, FL
                                                >Hi Jack,
                                                I look at the website. Thanks. There is also some good info on the
                                                pelican yahoo group site. Thanks again for your info. Tom on Sandpiper.
                                                By the way Jack, I am on Charlotte Harbor on the west coast of Fl
                                                opposite you.
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