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fine points of making 4 sided sails???

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  • bshamblin2002
    what are the fine points of designing 4 sided sails, specifically 1- standing lug sails and 2- loose footed sprit sails ?? i have a make your own sails book
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 4, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      what are the fine points of designing 4 sided sails, specifically
      1- standing lug sails and
      2- loose footed sprit sails

      ??

      i have a "make your own sails" book and understand the basics of
      putting ropes in the hems, making grommets, and that flat sails are
      best to windward while sails with a pocket are better than flat
      sails, the more you are not going to windward???

      but where would one find the jedi master stuff written ?? thanks,
      bill in nc
    • Roger Derby
      The Sailmaker s Apprentice by Emiliano Marino. Roger derbyrm@starband.net http://derbyrm.mystarband.net ... From: bshamblin2002
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 4, 2003
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        "The Sailmaker's Apprentice" by Emiliano Marino.

        Roger
        derbyrm@...
        http://derbyrm.mystarband.net

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "bshamblin2002" <shamblin@...>

        > what are the fine points of designing 4 sided sails, specifically
        > 1- standing lug sails and
        > 2- loose footed sprit sails
        >
        > ??
        >
        > i have a "make your own sails" book and understand the basics of
        > putting ropes in the hems, making grommets, and that flat sails are
        > best to windward while sails with a pocket are better than flat
        > sails, the more you are not going to windward???
        >
        > but where would one find the jedi master stuff written ?? thanks,
        > bill in nc
      • Chuck Leinweber
        Bill: Jim Michalak has written a lot about lugsails. Read his essays about the subject: http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/michalak/alphabetical.htm
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 4, 2003
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          Bill:

          Jim Michalak has written a lot about lugsails. Read his essays about the subject:

          http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/michalak/alphabetical.htm

          chuck
          what are the fine points of designing 4 sided sails, specifically
          1- standing lug sails and
          2- loose footed sprit sails

          ??

          i have a "make your own sails" book and understand the basics of
          putting ropes in the hems, making grommets, and that flat sails are
          best to windward while sails with a pocket are better than flat
          sails, the more you are not going to windward???

          but where would one find the jedi master stuff written ?? thanks,
          bill in nc





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Richard Spelling
          homepages.apci.net/~michalak ... From: Roger Derby To: Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 8:37 PM Subject: Re:
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 4, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            homepages.apci.net/~michalak

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
            To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 8:37 PM
            Subject: Re: [bolger] fine points of making 4 sided sails???


            > "The Sailmaker's Apprentice" by Emiliano Marino.
            >
            > Roger
            > derbyrm@...
            > http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "bshamblin2002" <shamblin@...>
            >
            > > what are the fine points of designing 4 sided sails, specifically
            > > 1- standing lug sails and
            > > 2- loose footed sprit sails
            > >
            > > ??
            > >
            > > i have a "make your own sails" book and understand the basics of
            > > putting ropes in the hems, making grommets, and that flat sails are
            > > best to windward while sails with a pocket are better than flat
            > > sails, the more you are not going to windward???
            > >
            > > but where would one find the jedi master stuff written ?? thanks,
            > > bill in nc
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Bolger rules!!!
            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
            > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
            > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
            > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
            01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • ghartc
            Hi Bill, The Sailmaker s Apprentice is far and away the best text on sailmaking, but even IT deals 99% with finishing sails (i.e. edges, grommets, battens,
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 5, 2003
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              Hi Bill,

              "The Sailmaker's Apprentice" is far and away the best text on
              sailmaking, but even IT deals 99% with finishing sails (i.e. edges,
              grommets, battens, etc.) It never *quite* gets to telling you exactly
              how to cut "X" broadseam for "Y" shape.

              Even though most sailmakers now use computers and cutters (which I
              build and sell) and high-quality cloth - allowing them to precisely
              control shape - what numbers they use most won't say.

              But, for 99% of bolger boats, you want to err on the fat side of
              draft to provide drive. Bolger boats, especially home-built, are not
              close-winded because they mostly have short and crude foils in the
              water and short, rather than high-aspect, foils in the air. The rigs
              tend to be lightly, simply rigged or free-standing, which is to say
              they'll be fat themselves with lots of external halyards. All this
              disturbs the airflow futher a lot further past the sail's leading
              edge than a whispy modern rig. And, the hull forms and finish
              (usually) are not high-tech either. This isn't to say they are not
              FAST and FUN - we did 6+ knots upwind and 10 knots off-wind a couple
              weeks ago in my light schooner - but I would never get around, say, a
              Melges 24 on a race course.

              So, you need some draft to get moving. But, a pretty fat sail might
              be 12% draft, while a pretty flat sail might be 9% deep (even less
              for something superfast and low-drag like an iceboat). That's a
              pretty small window to achieve on a living room floor with a stretchy
              fabric like polytarp.

              To complicate it, a decent sail has two more qualities. It's FAIR,
              which means it's smooth whatever shape you decide on, and it's stiff,
              which means it drives the boat rather than stretches on puffs. (Two
              more strikes against polytarp.) Modern resin-coated dacron is strong
              and stiff, so it takes and holds the shape you want, especially over
              time. Luckily, all Bolger boaters ever need is the most generic,
              affordable, balanced weave dacron for really beautiful low-aspect
              (less than 2:1) sails. But, it's unforgiving, lumps-wise, if you
              can't cut it fair.

              Easy to say if you've got a huge floor or a plotter! But, while you
              don't want to buy one, you can "rent" one pretty cheap. If you don't
              want to be in the design loop, call Sailrite kits (good guys - use my
              plotters, but don't hold that against them). But, if you want to
              design your own sail and have it cut "perfectly" from some decent
              stuff, here's what I would do.

              Get a copy of Laine's Sailcut4 from my website,
              www.carlsondesign.com. It's free and it's pretty simple to get your
              sail dimensions in. Put a little positive curve on the luff - maybe
              a 1/2" on a small sail and 1" on a big sail. The default shape for
              the sail will be, I think, around 10%. Even that will produce a very
              pretty sail. Fatten it up to maybe ~11% if you want.

              The only sailmaker and sailmaking supplier I know that is willing to
              take *your* file and cut it from some nice stuff is the guy that
              sells my plotters, too, in St. Pete, FL. To avoid a conflict of
              interest, contact me off-list and I'll give you his name.

              Regards,
              Gregg Carlson
              (gcarlson@...)


              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bshamblin2002" <shamblin@h...> wrote:
              > what are the fine points of designing 4 sided sails, specifically
              > 1- standing lug sails and
              > 2- loose footed sprit sails
              >
              > ??
              >
              > i have a "make your own sails" book and understand the basics of
              > putting ropes in the hems, making grommets, and that flat sails
              are
              > best to windward while sails with a pocket are better than flat
              > sails, the more you are not going to windward???
              >
              > but where would one find the jedi master stuff written ?? thanks,
              > bill in nc
            • craig o'donnell
              ... Gregg is absolutely correct on this, and I d add, the smaller the sail, the more you want to make sure it s well-cambered ( fat ) - this based on sailing a
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 5, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                >But, for 99% of bolger boats, you want to err on the fat side of
                >draft to provide drive.

                Gregg is absolutely correct on this, and I'd add, the smaller the
                sail, the more you want to make sure it's well-cambered ("fat") -
                this based on sailing a number of different 30-50 sq ft lugsails and
                small sprit sails on various canoes and CLC boats. A fat sail
                provides a lot of lift compared to a flatter sail of the same size;
                early airplanes also used foils we'd consider quite fat on their
                wings for the same reason.

                A related reason is simply that a fat sail will help you in light airs.
                --
                Craig O'Donnell
                Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                _________________________________

                -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                -- Macintosh kinda guy
                Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                _________________________________
                ---
                [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
              • captreed2000
                ... Gregg s advice is right on the money. I use Sailcut 4 and get great results, even with polytarp. Reed
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 5, 2003
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                  >
                  > Get a copy of Laine's Sailcut4 from my website,

                  Gregg's advice is right on the money. I use Sailcut 4 and get great
                  results, even with polytarp.

                  Reed
                • bshamblin2002
                  thanks much to greg, craig and reed! i so enjoy learning this stuff and was not aware the extent to which a fuller sail cut would help. i have just muddled
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 6, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    thanks much to greg, craig and reed! i so enjoy learning this stuff
                    and was not aware the extent to which a fuller sail cut would help. i
                    have just muddled along for years with completely flat sails. bill



                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed2000" <captreed@a...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Get a copy of Laine's Sailcut4 from my website,
                    >
                    > Gregg's advice is right on the money. I use Sailcut 4 and get
                    great
                    > results, even with polytarp.
                    >
                    > Reed
                  • bshamblin2002
                    thanks, roger, chuck and richrad and all for the advice. bill ... are
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 6, 2003
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                      thanks, roger, chuck and richrad and all for the advice. bill

                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
                      > "The Sailmaker's Apprentice" by Emiliano Marino.
                      >
                      > Roger
                      > derbyrm@s...
                      > http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "bshamblin2002" <shamblin@h...>
                      >
                      > > what are the fine points of designing 4 sided sails, specifically
                      > > 1- standing lug sails and
                      > > 2- loose footed sprit sails
                      > >
                      > > ??
                      > >
                      > > i have a "make your own sails" book and understand the basics of
                      > > putting ropes in the hems, making grommets, and that flat sails
                      are
                      > > best to windward while sails with a pocket are better than flat
                      > > sails, the more you are not going to windward???
                      > >
                      > > but where would one find the jedi master stuff written ?? thanks,
                      > > bill in nc
                    • craig o'donnell
                      ... There s nothing wrong with a flat sail. Canoe sails were flat 100 years ago. Chinese sails are flat (though the fabric stretches). I ve made many a flat
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 6, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        >thanks much to greg, craig and reed! i so enjoy learning this stuff
                        >and was not aware the extent to which a fuller sail cut would help. i
                        >have just muddled along for years with completely flat sails. bill

                        There's nothing "wrong" with a flat sail. Canoe sails were flat 100
                        years ago. Chinese sails are flat (though the fabric stretches). I've
                        made many a flat blue tarp sail. And they do work. But a flat sail is
                        not as powerful as a well cambered sail.
                        --
                        Craig O'Donnell
                        Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                        <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                        The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                        The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                        Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                        American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                        Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                        _________________________________

                        -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                        -- Macintosh kinda guy
                        Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                        _________________________________
                        ---
                        [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
                      • ghartc
                        Hi Bill, Flat sails work, too, in the same way a lumpy daggerboard does. Gets you out on the water rather than staying home until your gear s perfect! I ve had
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 6, 2003
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                          Hi Bill,

                          Flat sails work, too, in the same way a lumpy daggerboard does. Gets
                          you out on the water rather than staying home until your gear's
                          perfect!

                          I've had a lot of new sails to do A-B tests; it's pretty amazing what
                          a decent sail will do. I replaced a blown-out (baggy) set of dacron
                          sails on an Impulse 21 (kind of a sport boat) with some brand new
                          Genesis mylar-fiber sails (got in trade for writing some of their
                          software) and immediately went from getting rounded up at 5 knots to
                          sailing 10 degrees higher and a knot faster with better control.
                          Pretty amazing.

                          As to shaping, sailmakers don't learn it anymore. They use a 3-d
                          molding program to define the flying shape (which they refine on the
                          water and keep in their hip pocket) and the program cuts the panels
                          to make that shape. To *prove* they got that shape, they apply
                          colored draft tapes and lie on deck looking up with a digital camera,
                          then analyze the shape in a shareware like the one on my website.

                          Even if they don't have a plotter, most will use a cutting service.
                          There are "retail" (e.g. sailrite) and "wholesale" (to the trade)
                          guys.

                          In the *old* days, sailmakers had lots of predrawn broadseams on
                          their floors, which they would transfer to the tops of the panels.
                          They used a lot of long battens to fair that curve by eye (just like
                          lofting a boat) just before cutting. The bottom of the panel above
                          was straight - that's how the shape's produced. Most couldn't tell
                          you how they choose how much curve to use - it was obvious once you
                          did it so long.

                          Next thing was "second cutting", where they cut the actual perimeter,
                          and a slight hollow between batten ends to prevent fluttering. You
                          had to do this last because the broadseaming itself would suck in the
                          luff curve (called fanning). After going on the boat and measuring
                          the mast pre-bend, you add even a little extra luff curve (which can
                          also be "S" shaped), which gets pushed back into the sail and adds
                          draft (or get pulled out by bending your mast with boom vang). Even
                          luff curve was measured by the old guys in inches rather than ratios -
                          the old guys wernt the collige boys they are today. Anyway luff
                          curve was critical, but could be, usually was, recut again (and
                          again). In fact, broadseams themselves were often opened up and
                          adjusted.

                          Stepping back a little earlier in time, say early soft dacron, the
                          broadseam angles were tilted quite a ways forward, which loaded the
                          cloth on the bias. You could get some pretty good stretch then via
                          halyard and control the shape. I think this is still done on some
                          class boats that specify dacron-only like Stars
                          http://sailing.about.com/library/weekly/aa091800a.htm

                          Further back in time was canvas (and polytarp), which was so stretchy
                          it often required no induced shape at all. Flip side was, you could
                          not control the shape either.

                          Gregg Carlson


                          >Gegg Carlson wrote : "It never *quite* gets to telling you exactley
                          >how to cut "X" broadseem for "Y"shape" about The Sailmakers
                          >Apprentice. That raises the question what do sailmakers read/do to
                          >learn how to "cut "X" broadseam for "Y" shape".
                          >
                          >Albert van Hulzen

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bshamblin2002" <shamblin@h...> wrote:
                          > thanks much to greg, craig and reed! i so enjoy learning this stuff
                          > and was not aware the extent to which a fuller sail cut would help.
                          i
                          > have just muddled along for years with completely flat sails. bill
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed2000" <captreed@a...> wrote:
                          > > > Get a copy of Laine's Sailcut4 from my website,
                          > >
                          > > Gregg's advice is right on the money. I use Sailcut 4 and get
                          > great
                          > > results, even with polytarp.
                          > >
                          > > Reed
                        • craig o'donnell
                          ... Well, how far back ... ? This is a real abbreviated tour ... In the 1800s flax canvas (heavy linen) was considered better than canvas duck. The
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 6, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            >Further back in time was canvas (and polytarp), which was so stretchy
                            >it often required no induced shape at all. Flip side was, you could
                            >not control the shape either.

                            Well, how far back ... ? <chuckle> This is a real abbreviated tour ...

                            In the 1800s flax canvas (heavy linen) was considered better than
                            canvas duck. The first was English, the second American. The English
                            would also use canvas from Egyptian cotton (longer fibers in it,
                            FWIW).

                            The Chinese adopted canvas duck widely when cheap imported duck
                            became available to them in the 1800s. Before that sails were of
                            matting.

                            All canvas and flax sails had shape problems. It was not until ca
                            1905 that it became obvious to all that there *had* to be shape in a
                            gaff or leg-of-mutton sail for best results. This came because people
                            were trying to make airplanes fly better. I believe the royal yacht
                            Britannia was the 1st to have all shaped, cambered sails.

                            Canoe sailors used "balloon silk" - whatever that was - and various
                            grades of light cotton.

                            For a long time the English thought a sail had to bag to "hold wind".
                            They really did learn when the yacht America came by ca 1850 w/ very
                            flat cotton sails and outsailed many of their boats.

                            Chesapeake watermen probably did not pay a lot of attention to sail
                            shape, other than to use a sprit to keep the sail setting flat. The
                            natural stretch in the canvas would contribute some shape and the
                            sails would work. Keeping the sail "flat" was a way of preventing
                            bagginess, that is, having the draft or bulge in the sail too far
                            back, more than imparting a particular planned shape to the sail.
                            I've looked at a LOT of fotos of sprint-boomed boats, and they have a
                            lot of wrinkles in the sail's after half. This apparently did not
                            bother the fishermen.

                            ... the natural shape a sheet of cloth takes probably accounts for
                            the relatively decent performance of old-time lugsails, especially
                            dipping lugs, as long as the sailors would keep the luff tight.

                            --
                            Craig O'Donnell
                            Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                            <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                            The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                            The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                            Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                            American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                            Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                            _________________________________

                            -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                            -- Macintosh kinda guy
                            Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                            _________________________________
                            ---
                            [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
                          • Chuck Leinweber
                            Gregg: I ll defer to your experience with sailcloth, but I have to take exception with your assessment of the stretchiness polytarp. There are after all more
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 6, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Gregg:

                              I'll defer to your experience with sailcloth, but I have to take exception with your assessment of the stretchiness polytarp. There are after all more than one kind. The heavy duty white polytarp kits that Dave Gray puts together and we sell on Duckworks are not the same thing as blue Wal-mart tarps. Besides being way more UV resistant, they are not all that stretchy, and they are thick and strong.

                              I made a 200 sq ft balanced lug for my Caprice with one of these kits following Jim Michalak's instructions for creating shape with darts, and the result is a sail that sets quite well. After three seasons, the sail is in fine shape - all for less than $100 (including mizzen).

                              I would be delighted to send you a sample (a couple of square feet) of this material for your assessment, if you are interested.

                              Chuck
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: ghartc
                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 8:10 AM
                              Subject: [bolger] Re: Finer points of 4 sided sailmaking


                              Hi Bill,

                              Flat sails work, too, in the same way a lumpy daggerboard does. Gets
                              you out on the water rather than staying home until your gear's
                              perfect!

                              I've had a lot of new sails to do A-B tests; it's pretty amazing what
                              a decent sail will do. I replaced a blown-out (baggy) set of dacron
                              sails on an Impulse 21 (kind of a sport boat) with some brand new
                              Genesis mylar-fiber sails (got in trade for writing some of their
                              software) and immediately went from getting rounded up at 5 knots to
                              sailing 10 degrees higher and a knot faster with better control.
                              Pretty amazing.

                              As to shaping, sailmakers don't learn it anymore. They use a 3-d
                              molding program to define the flying shape (which they refine on the
                              water and keep in their hip pocket) and the program cuts the panels
                              to make that shape. To *prove* they got that shape, they apply
                              colored draft tapes and lie on deck looking up with a digital camera,
                              then analyze the shape in a shareware like the one on my website.

                              Even if they don't have a plotter, most will use a cutting service.
                              There are "retail" (e.g. sailrite) and "wholesale" (to the trade)
                              guys.

                              In the *old* days, sailmakers had lots of predrawn broadseams on
                              their floors, which they would transfer to the tops of the panels.
                              They used a lot of long battens to fair that curve by eye (just like
                              lofting a boat) just before cutting. The bottom of the panel above
                              was straight - that's how the shape's produced. Most couldn't tell
                              you how they choose how much curve to use - it was obvious once you
                              did it so long.

                              Next thing was "second cutting", where they cut the actual perimeter,
                              and a slight hollow between batten ends to prevent fluttering. You
                              had to do this last because the broadseaming itself would suck in the
                              luff curve (called fanning). After going on the boat and measuring
                              the mast pre-bend, you add even a little extra luff curve (which can
                              also be "S" shaped), which gets pushed back into the sail and adds
                              draft (or get pulled out by bending your mast with boom vang). Even
                              luff curve was measured by the old guys in inches rather than ratios -
                              the old guys wernt the collige boys they are today. Anyway luff
                              curve was critical, but could be, usually was, recut again (and
                              again). In fact, broadseams themselves were often opened up and
                              adjusted.

                              Stepping back a little earlier in time, say early soft dacron, the
                              broadseam angles were tilted quite a ways forward, which loaded the
                              cloth on the bias. You could get some pretty good stretch then via
                              halyard and control the shape. I think this is still done on some
                              class boats that specify dacron-only like Stars
                              http://sailing.about.com/library/weekly/aa091800a.htm

                              Further back in time was canvas (and polytarp), which was so stretchy
                              it often required no induced shape at all. Flip side was, you could
                              not control the shape either.

                              Gregg Carlson


                              >Gegg Carlson wrote : "It never *quite* gets to telling you exactley
                              >how to cut "X" broadseem for "Y"shape" about The Sailmakers
                              >Apprentice. That raises the question what do sailmakers read/do to
                              >learn how to "cut "X" broadseam for "Y" shape".
                              >
                              >Albert van Hulzen

                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bshamblin2002" <shamblin@h...> wrote:
                              > thanks much to greg, craig and reed! i so enjoy learning this stuff
                              > and was not aware the extent to which a fuller sail cut would help.
                              i
                              > have just muddled along for years with completely flat sails. bill
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "captreed2000" <captreed@a...> wrote:
                              > > > Get a copy of Laine's Sailcut4 from my website,
                              > >
                              > > Gregg's advice is right on the money. I use Sailcut 4 and get
                              > great
                              > > results, even with polytarp.
                              > >
                              > > Reed


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                              Bolger rules!!!
                              - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                              - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
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                            • craig o'donnell
                              ... I see Sherwin Williams stores have inexpensive white polytarp for painting work. I ll snag one and see how thick it is. -- Craig O Donnell Sinepuxent
                              Message 14 of 14 , Aug 13, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                >Gregg:
                                >
                                >I'll defer to your experience with sailcloth, but I have to take
                                >exception with your assessment of the stretchiness polytarp. There
                                >are after all more than one kind. The heavy duty white polytarp
                                >kits that Dave Gray puts together and we sell on Duckworks are not
                                >the same thing as blue Wal-mart tarps. Besides being way more UV
                                >resistant, they are not all that stretchy, and they are thick and
                                >strong.


                                I see Sherwin Williams stores have inexpensive white polytarp for
                                painting work. I'll snag one and see how thick it is.
                                --
                                Craig O'Donnell
                                Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                                <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                                The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                                The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                                Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                                American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                                Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                                _________________________________

                                -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                                -- Macintosh kinda guy
                                Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                                _________________________________
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