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Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

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  • pvanderwaart
    It s understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes much greater than
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 2, 1945
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      It's understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in
      our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes
      much greater than average self-confidence to tolerate a boat with a
      top speed that is 1/3 of that of the boats belonging to all your
      friends. The group intinerary will be set for the majority, and your
      participation in the fleet manouvers will be limited. (This was my
      father's experience with an underpowered Hunter 30 that motored about
      4.5 kts in fleet of better sailboats that motored at 6 kts. The speed
      difference would be greater for powerboats.) Hence, I think you need
      at least semi-displacement speed - 10 or 12 kts minimum. Besides, the
      distances in Puget Sound can be rather long.

      Second, that cruising area leads the nation in providing weather
      protection for the crew. I would be looking for a way to get folks
      undercover when it rains.

      If money was not an object and a custom design could be had, I would
      think in terms of the Mikim model, with perhaps power for a higher
      speed potential. The equivalent in a plywood boat would be the
      Plywood Diesel Cruiser. Arch Davis's v-bottom Jiffy-22 is similar.
      None of these has the accomodations set up for what you need, though.

      One boat you might look at is the Fast Motorsailer as shown in BWAOM.
      When the weather is nice and folks are happy to be either in or out,
      you could take a crowd. I'm not quite sure how many can squeeze in
      the cabin during a squall, but it's pretty roomy. You can build her
      without the rig, as was done in one notable case for which there was
      an article in MAIB (and perhaps on the web somehere). As I recall, he
      got 17 kts from a 4-stroke 50 and was dissatisfied, so went to a
      100hp and cruises in the mid-twenties. It's a homebuildable, plywood
      boat, and could be trailered.

      Interestinly enough, Bolger showed an Economy Motorsailer in his book
      The Folding Schooner. I never heard of this boat being built, but I
      always thought it was pretty cool as a powerboat. The rig cluttered
      it up, and I certainly wouldn't do that the same way now. It's a
      strip-planked 26' boat with semi-displacement lines. The comparison
      with the Fast Motorsailer is pretty interesting.

      Peter
    • Jonathan Smith
      ... Does it need to be trailerable? Jonathan
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 2, 1945
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
        > Hi all,
        > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
        > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.

        Does it need to be trailerable?

        Jonathan
      • jeffsprayer
        ... Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own dock.
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 2, 1945
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          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Smith"
          <the_jopasm@y...> wrote:
          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer"
          <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
          > > Hi all,
          > > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
          > > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
          >
          > Does it need to be trailerable?
          >
          > Jonathan

          Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own
          dock.
        • pep cruells
          ... Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed after insolent , then the address will work. I mean, when the error message shows up, go
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 2, 1945
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
            > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
            > Stephan
            >
            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
            > <futabachan@y...> wrote:
            > > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
            > available
            > > at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have
            >
            > > -- Sue --
            > > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
            > > --
            > > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

            Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed
            after 'insolent', then the address will work. I mean, when
            the 'error' message shows up, go to the address with your cursor,
            click, it will turn blue, click again until the cursor shows up, go
            to the 'virgule' delete it, click enter and there you go.

            pep
          • Ken Locarnini
            But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 2, 1945
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              But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give up.....
              nunativs

              -------Original Message-------
              From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
              Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • lon wells
              Any land that is in the public domain is controled by some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor. Lon ... __________________________________ Do you
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 2, 1945
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                Any land that is in the public domain is controled by
                some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor.
                Lon
                --- Ken Locarnini <renueden@...> wrote:
                > But even if you do get that waterfront property,
                > keep it in the public domain so we can all share.
                > Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads
                > should give up.....
                > nunativs
                >
                > -------Original Message-------
                > From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                > Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for
                > NW/Puget Sound waters?
                >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >


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              • Wayne Gilham
                I ve always lusted after the Idaho design. In particular, from all I ve gathered aout it over the years, it seems to plane even when standing still --
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 3, 1945
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                  I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                  In particular, from all I've gathered aout it over the years, it seems to
                  plane even when standing still -- especially, it doesn't dig a hole when
                  increasing speed. and with essentially only a bit of froth left behind
                  from your passing, the thousands of shore dwellers and anchored boaters will
                  be smiling as you pass by, even (heck, especially) at full-tilt -- a far cry
                  better in respect-for-others than those huge holes-in-the-water chopped out
                  (and rolling over the beaches) from all them inefficient Bayliners ETC ETC
                  that roil up our otherwise mostly calm waters....

                  What's unclear to me is the expected performance in a chop.... some have
                  said she should be smoother than expected 'cause the length supported by
                  water will bridge-over the waves... others think she'll just knife THRU chop
                  instead of rising up over every wave, thus not pounding (but boy could those
                  straight-sided bows throw wet spray!). HEY, any Sneakeasy owners: COMMENTS,
                  please!! I'd use prudence not to go out in anything over two or
                  three-foot chop, just wait for the waves to subside (which up here in Puget
                  Sound they almost ALWAYS do a few hours later when the current-direction
                  changes to with-the-wind instead of against-it....unless it's a big storm,
                  for which there's usually good advance warning)

                  I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (was thinking of
                  commissioning PCB to bless this idea or re-design it altogether-- maybe this
                  winter....) especially since as-designed (for Bernie Wolfard in his
                  wheelchair) she doesn't have standing headroom in the cabin, only a little
                  over 5' -- and I'd hate to destroy the good proportions by just raising the
                  cabintop on the existing design -- wonder what the up-scaling would do to
                  Phil's usually very economical use of 4x8 plywood sheets?

                  Another change for the NW would be to make the fwd & aft cockpits
                  self-draining (would need a false-floor above waterline -- but that'd be
                  only a couple of inches of "wasted space" higher, no?) -- else you'd be
                  sponging out that last bit of rainwater a bit too often (gotta keep up that
                  myth that it rains here all the time so ya all won't move here next week...
                  )

                  Put a good rowing boat up on the cabintop (how about a Platt Monfort
                  Geodesic Ultralite whitehall? pardon the blasphemy, but the light weight up
                  so high would be best for balance AND for easy-launch), a bunch of those
                  ubiquitious and cheap fold-up chinese canvas-chairs, a blow-up queen-sized
                  mattress with built-in inflator (deflate in the morning for more cabin room)
                  a prota-potti in the aft corner of the cabin, with pull-around
                  shower-curtain for privacy, A Toyoset forced-air kerosene heater (outside
                  vented) -- the most expensive "bit" at about $1200 (see http://www
                  toyotomiusa.com/products/cabinboatheaters/NS-2700-2.html), but essential for
                  NW cruising! --and HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                  tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising WEEKS
                  before any of the more intricate designs.

                  Am I nuts?

                  Wayne Gilham

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • jeffsprayer
                  ... That s what I like about this group. Those who post don t hold back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 3, 1945
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham"
                    <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                    > I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                    > HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                    > tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising
                    >WEEKS
                    > before any of the more intricate designs.
                    >
                    > Am I nuts?
                    >
                    > Wayne Gilham

                    That's what I like about this group. Those who post don't hold
                    back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in
                    recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you are nuts. The cure? Well, I think
                    it's a good dose of the very thing that ails you, me and the rest of
                    this board and beyound - just DO IT

                    Deciding and commiting on what to do (build) has been the
                    hardest thing for me, personally. I have soooo many factors to
                    consider that it bogles my mind at times. Precious time is
                    limited too... Thus, I want to decide once more as wisely as I can
                    given the present sum total of my affairs.

                    Idaho is way cool for what it is designed to do. It can be easily
                    modified as well. I do have the plans and many modifications
                    sketched out, but with my family size (6) and age range (7-15.5
                    ((energy needs space)) I'm afraid she's more a fast transport
                    than adventure rig. Maybe when we are few...

                    I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR AWSOME INPUT
                    POSTED ON THIS BOARD AND DIRECTLY.

                    Jeff
                    nuts II
                  • Bruce Hallman
                    When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle Harbor. If you are
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 3, 1945
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                      When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below
                      the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle
                      Harbor. If you are not in a hurry, and can wait for the tide and
                      wind to be right, why not build an Illinois? She would be the
                      perfect, drift from this cove to the next cove live-aboard. It would
                      take more years than one life to explore all the coves in Puget Sound
                      and the waters to the north.
                    • rsmboatbuilder
                      I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one young child. I have
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 3, 1945
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                        I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                        continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                        young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                        designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                        George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                        view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                        and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                        So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                        cloudy.
                        Key design considerations I have -
                        1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                        handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                        2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                        eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                        lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                        3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                        planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                        etc etc etc
                        4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                        looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                        looking
                        5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                        this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                        sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                        That's it and this is what I have found
                        Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                        Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                        Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                        http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                        http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                        OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                        Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                        A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                        no powercat outdrive
                        A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                        Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                        Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                        Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                        All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                        boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                        efficient.
                        Regards and good luck!
                        Ian
                      • Bruce Hector
                        ... I d think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36 (version of Idaho) Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota with the
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 3, 1945
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham" <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                          I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (version
                          of Idaho)

                          Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota
                          with the head at the extreme stern in it's own "outhouse". I've long
                          loved Minnie.

                          Bruce Hector
                        • Ken Locarnini
                          You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23 , 25 , 27 lengths and they re trailerable with 8 1/2 beam. Nice pics and
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 5, 1945
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                            You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23', 25', 27' lengths and they're trailerable with 8 1/2' beam. Nice pics and view of layout here:
                            http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=coastalcrsr.html&&cart_id=2295227_23173

                            Ken
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: rsmboatbuilder
                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:31 PM
                            Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?




                            I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                            continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                            young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                            designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                            George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                            view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                            and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                            So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                            cloudy.
                            Key design considerations I have -
                            1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                            handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                            2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                            eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                            lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                            3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                            planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                            etc etc etc
                            4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                            looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                            looking
                            5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                            this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                            sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                            That's it and this is what I have found
                            Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                            Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                            Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                            http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                            http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                            OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                            Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                            A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                            no powercat outdrive
                            A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                            Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                            Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                            Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                            All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                            boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                            efficient.
                            Regards and good luck!
                            Ian



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                          • timothyennuinet
                            ... She included a comma at the end.. this one will work: http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/ --T
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 14, 1945
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                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                              > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                              > Stephan

                              She included a comma at the end.. this one will work:

                              http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/

                              --T
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