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Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

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  • Peter Lenihan
    ... Thus, ... Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of options for
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
      wrote:
      >>
      > Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
      > rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
      > relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
      > distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
      > to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
      > the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
      > design can be. ; )
      >
      > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
      > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
      > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
      > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
      > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
      Thus,
      > what-ever I can get!
      >
      > Trailerable.
      >
      > Thanks again,
      > Jeff



      Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
      gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
      options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
      head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
      for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
      stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
      of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
      members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
      be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
      for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
      else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
      You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.

      Sincerely,

      Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
    • ken kongslie
      sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list ken
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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        sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list
        ken

        > From: "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@...>
        > Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 04:38:43 -0000
        > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?
        >
        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
        > wrote:
        >>>
        >> Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
        >> rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
        >> relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
        >> distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
        >> to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
        >> the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
        >> design can be. ; )
        >>
        >> I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
        >> cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
        >> under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
        >> some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
        >> blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
        > Thus,
        >> what-ever I can get!
        >>
        >> Trailerable.
        >>
        >> Thanks again,
        >> Jeff
        >
        >
        >
        > Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
        > gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
        > options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
        > head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
        > for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
        > stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
        > of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
        > members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
        > be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
        > for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
        > else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
        > You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.
        >
        > Sincerely,
        >
        > Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
        >
        >
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
        > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
        > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
        > Fax: (978) 282-1349
        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • pvanderwaart
        It s understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes much greater than
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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          It's understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in
          our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes
          much greater than average self-confidence to tolerate a boat with a
          top speed that is 1/3 of that of the boats belonging to all your
          friends. The group intinerary will be set for the majority, and your
          participation in the fleet manouvers will be limited. (This was my
          father's experience with an underpowered Hunter 30 that motored about
          4.5 kts in fleet of better sailboats that motored at 6 kts. The speed
          difference would be greater for powerboats.) Hence, I think you need
          at least semi-displacement speed - 10 or 12 kts minimum. Besides, the
          distances in Puget Sound can be rather long.

          Second, that cruising area leads the nation in providing weather
          protection for the crew. I would be looking for a way to get folks
          undercover when it rains.

          If money was not an object and a custom design could be had, I would
          think in terms of the Mikim model, with perhaps power for a higher
          speed potential. The equivalent in a plywood boat would be the
          Plywood Diesel Cruiser. Arch Davis's v-bottom Jiffy-22 is similar.
          None of these has the accomodations set up for what you need, though.

          One boat you might look at is the Fast Motorsailer as shown in BWAOM.
          When the weather is nice and folks are happy to be either in or out,
          you could take a crowd. I'm not quite sure how many can squeeze in
          the cabin during a squall, but it's pretty roomy. You can build her
          without the rig, as was done in one notable case for which there was
          an article in MAIB (and perhaps on the web somehere). As I recall, he
          got 17 kts from a 4-stroke 50 and was dissatisfied, so went to a
          100hp and cruises in the mid-twenties. It's a homebuildable, plywood
          boat, and could be trailered.

          Interestinly enough, Bolger showed an Economy Motorsailer in his book
          The Folding Schooner. I never heard of this boat being built, but I
          always thought it was pretty cool as a powerboat. The rig cluttered
          it up, and I certainly wouldn't do that the same way now. It's a
          strip-planked 26' boat with semi-displacement lines. The comparison
          with the Fast Motorsailer is pretty interesting.

          Peter
        • Jonathan Smith
          ... Does it need to be trailerable? Jonathan
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
            > Hi all,
            > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
            > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.

            Does it need to be trailerable?

            Jonathan
          • jeffsprayer
            ... Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own dock.
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Smith"
              <the_jopasm@y...> wrote:
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer"
              <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
              > > Hi all,
              > > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
              > > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
              >
              > Does it need to be trailerable?
              >
              > Jonathan

              Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own
              dock.
            • pep cruells
              ... Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed after insolent , then the address will work. I mean, when the error message shows up, go
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                > Stephan
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
                > <futabachan@y...> wrote:
                > > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
                > available
                > > at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have
                >
                > > -- Sue --
                > > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
                > > --
                > > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

                Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed
                after 'insolent', then the address will work. I mean, when
                the 'error' message shows up, go to the address with your cursor,
                click, it will turn blue, click again until the cursor shows up, go
                to the 'virgule' delete it, click enter and there you go.

                pep
              • Ken Locarnini
                But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give
                Message 7 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                  But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give up.....
                  nunativs

                  -------Original Message-------
                  From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                  Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • lon wells
                  Any land that is in the public domain is controled by some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor. Lon ... __________________________________ Do you
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                    Any land that is in the public domain is controled by
                    some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor.
                    Lon
                    --- Ken Locarnini <renueden@...> wrote:
                    > But even if you do get that waterfront property,
                    > keep it in the public domain so we can all share.
                    > Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads
                    > should give up.....
                    > nunativs
                    >
                    > -------Original Message-------
                    > From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                    > Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                    > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for
                    > NW/Puget Sound waters?
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >


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                  • Wayne Gilham
                    I ve always lusted after the Idaho design. In particular, from all I ve gathered aout it over the years, it seems to plane even when standing still --
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                      I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                      In particular, from all I've gathered aout it over the years, it seems to
                      plane even when standing still -- especially, it doesn't dig a hole when
                      increasing speed. and with essentially only a bit of froth left behind
                      from your passing, the thousands of shore dwellers and anchored boaters will
                      be smiling as you pass by, even (heck, especially) at full-tilt -- a far cry
                      better in respect-for-others than those huge holes-in-the-water chopped out
                      (and rolling over the beaches) from all them inefficient Bayliners ETC ETC
                      that roil up our otherwise mostly calm waters....

                      What's unclear to me is the expected performance in a chop.... some have
                      said she should be smoother than expected 'cause the length supported by
                      water will bridge-over the waves... others think she'll just knife THRU chop
                      instead of rising up over every wave, thus not pounding (but boy could those
                      straight-sided bows throw wet spray!). HEY, any Sneakeasy owners: COMMENTS,
                      please!! I'd use prudence not to go out in anything over two or
                      three-foot chop, just wait for the waves to subside (which up here in Puget
                      Sound they almost ALWAYS do a few hours later when the current-direction
                      changes to with-the-wind instead of against-it....unless it's a big storm,
                      for which there's usually good advance warning)

                      I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (was thinking of
                      commissioning PCB to bless this idea or re-design it altogether-- maybe this
                      winter....) especially since as-designed (for Bernie Wolfard in his
                      wheelchair) she doesn't have standing headroom in the cabin, only a little
                      over 5' -- and I'd hate to destroy the good proportions by just raising the
                      cabintop on the existing design -- wonder what the up-scaling would do to
                      Phil's usually very economical use of 4x8 plywood sheets?

                      Another change for the NW would be to make the fwd & aft cockpits
                      self-draining (would need a false-floor above waterline -- but that'd be
                      only a couple of inches of "wasted space" higher, no?) -- else you'd be
                      sponging out that last bit of rainwater a bit too often (gotta keep up that
                      myth that it rains here all the time so ya all won't move here next week...
                      )

                      Put a good rowing boat up on the cabintop (how about a Platt Monfort
                      Geodesic Ultralite whitehall? pardon the blasphemy, but the light weight up
                      so high would be best for balance AND for easy-launch), a bunch of those
                      ubiquitious and cheap fold-up chinese canvas-chairs, a blow-up queen-sized
                      mattress with built-in inflator (deflate in the morning for more cabin room)
                      a prota-potti in the aft corner of the cabin, with pull-around
                      shower-curtain for privacy, A Toyoset forced-air kerosene heater (outside
                      vented) -- the most expensive "bit" at about $1200 (see http://www
                      toyotomiusa.com/products/cabinboatheaters/NS-2700-2.html), but essential for
                      NW cruising! --and HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                      tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising WEEKS
                      before any of the more intricate designs.

                      Am I nuts?

                      Wayne Gilham

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • jeffsprayer
                      ... That s what I like about this group. Those who post don t hold back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham"
                        <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                        > I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                        > HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                        > tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising
                        >WEEKS
                        > before any of the more intricate designs.
                        >
                        > Am I nuts?
                        >
                        > Wayne Gilham

                        That's what I like about this group. Those who post don't hold
                        back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in
                        recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you are nuts. The cure? Well, I think
                        it's a good dose of the very thing that ails you, me and the rest of
                        this board and beyound - just DO IT

                        Deciding and commiting on what to do (build) has been the
                        hardest thing for me, personally. I have soooo many factors to
                        consider that it bogles my mind at times. Precious time is
                        limited too... Thus, I want to decide once more as wisely as I can
                        given the present sum total of my affairs.

                        Idaho is way cool for what it is designed to do. It can be easily
                        modified as well. I do have the plans and many modifications
                        sketched out, but with my family size (6) and age range (7-15.5
                        ((energy needs space)) I'm afraid she's more a fast transport
                        than adventure rig. Maybe when we are few...

                        I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR AWSOME INPUT
                        POSTED ON THIS BOARD AND DIRECTLY.

                        Jeff
                        nuts II
                      • Bruce Hallman
                        When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle Harbor. If you are
                        Message 11 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                          When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below
                          the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle
                          Harbor. If you are not in a hurry, and can wait for the tide and
                          wind to be right, why not build an Illinois? She would be the
                          perfect, drift from this cove to the next cove live-aboard. It would
                          take more years than one life to explore all the coves in Puget Sound
                          and the waters to the north.
                        • rsmboatbuilder
                          I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one young child. I have
                          Message 12 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                            I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                            continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                            young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                            designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                            George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                            view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                            and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                            So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                            cloudy.
                            Key design considerations I have -
                            1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                            handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                            2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                            eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                            lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                            3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                            planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                            etc etc etc
                            4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                            looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                            looking
                            5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                            this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                            sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                            That's it and this is what I have found
                            Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                            Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                            Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                            http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                            http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                            OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                            Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                            A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                            no powercat outdrive
                            A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                            Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                            Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                            Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                            All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                            boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                            efficient.
                            Regards and good luck!
                            Ian
                          • Bruce Hector
                            ... I d think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36 (version of Idaho) Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota with the
                            Message 13 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham" <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                              I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (version
                              of Idaho)

                              Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota
                              with the head at the extreme stern in it's own "outhouse". I've long
                              loved Minnie.

                              Bruce Hector
                            • Ken Locarnini
                              You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23 , 25 , 27 lengths and they re trailerable with 8 1/2 beam. Nice pics and
                              Message 14 of 22 , Aug 5, 2003
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                                You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23', 25', 27' lengths and they're trailerable with 8 1/2' beam. Nice pics and view of layout here:
                                http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=coastalcrsr.html&&cart_id=2295227_23173

                                Ken
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: rsmboatbuilder
                                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:31 PM
                                Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?




                                I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                                continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                                young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                                designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                                George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                                view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                                and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                                So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                                cloudy.
                                Key design considerations I have -
                                1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                                handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                                2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                                eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                                lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                                3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                                planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                                etc etc etc
                                4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                                looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                                looking
                                5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                                this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                                sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                                That's it and this is what I have found
                                Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                                Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                                Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                                http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                                http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                                OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                                Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                                A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                                no powercat outdrive
                                A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                                Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                                Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                                Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                                All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                                boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                                efficient.
                                Regards and good luck!
                                Ian



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                                - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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                              • timothyennuinet
                                ... She included a comma at the end.. this one will work: http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/ --T
                                Message 15 of 22 , Aug 14, 2003
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                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                                  > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                                  > Stephan

                                  She included a comma at the end.. this one will work:

                                  http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/

                                  --T
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