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Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

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  • jeffsprayer
    ... Thanks Susan, From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don t think it will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wronge? Got any
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
      <futabachan@y...> wrote:
      > > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
      > > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
      >
      > Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder
      > in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite
      > decent performance out of it....
      >
      > -- Sue --
      > (every problem looks like a nail, right?)
      >
      > --
      > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

      Thanks Susan,

      From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
      will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wronge? Got any
      pics/drawings links?.

      I'd love to learn how to sail but there just aint much of it here in
      AZ to learn-by-doing on a regular basis. Once in Washington,
      now that's one of my goals. I'd prefer using the wind and stars
      but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
      family and friends.

      Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,
      my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
      save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.

      Here is some more info from another reply I gave in case you
      didn't read it...

      > Speed requirement?

      "Thanks for asking...

      Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
      rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
      relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
      distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
      to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
      the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
      design can be. ; )

      I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
      cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
      under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
      some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
      blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
      what-ever I can get!

      Trailerable."

      Thanks for your response, Susan.
      Jeff
    • Susan Davis
      I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I m commissioning her from PCB, I ve got the shiny new hammer syndrome. But from what you write, there may
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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        I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I'm commissioning
        her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. But from
        what you write, there may actually be a match here....

        > From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
        > will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wrong? Got
        > any pics/drawings links?.

        Actually, she is a cruising boat now -- when David and I
        commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser with
        accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is available
        at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have been
        some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.
        (The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
        among other things.)

        > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
        > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
        > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
        > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
        > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
        > what-ever I can get!
        >
        > Trailerable.

        The I60 features an owner's double berth, two single berths in
        "tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep two
        more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroom through
        the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course (peeing
        over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, and enormous
        open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.

        > Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,
        > my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
        > save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.

        The main cabin of the I60 is a "birdwatcher" cabin -- everyone
        stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
        good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
        video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view through
        the huge glass windows.

        > I'd prefer using the wind and stars
        > but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
        > family and friends.

        That would be the obvious problem with the I60: PCB hasn't finished
        designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with a
        dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
        one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
        keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
        to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
        attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.

        If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
        to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all weather"
        cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode" when the
        wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds or
        to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
        that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two other
        owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
        similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)

        -- Sue --
        (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
        --
        Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
      • ben_azo
        So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious Stephan ... commissioning ... from ... with ... available ... been ... it s ... and ... Thus,
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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          So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
          Stephan

          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
          <futabachan@y...> wrote:
          > I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I'm
          commissioning
          > her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. But
          from
          > what you write, there may actually be a match here....
          >
          > > From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
          > > will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wrong? Got
          > > any pics/drawings links?.
          >
          > Actually, she is a cruising boat now -- when David and I
          > commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser
          with
          > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
          available
          > at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have
          been
          > some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.
          > (The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
          > among other things.)
          >
          > > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if
          it's
          > > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
          > > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order
          and
          > > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
          > > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
          Thus,
          > > what-ever I can get!
          > >
          > > Trailerable.
          >
          > The I60 features an owner's double berth, two single berths in
          > "tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep
          two
          > more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroom
          through
          > the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course
          (peeing
          > over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, and
          enormous
          > open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.
          >
          > > Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for
          me,
          > > my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can
          give,
          > > save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.
          >
          > The main cabin of the I60 is a "birdwatcher" cabin -- everyone
          > stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
          > good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
          > video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view
          through
          > the huge glass windows.
          >
          > > I'd prefer using the wind and stars
          > > but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with
          my
          > > family and friends.
          >
          > That would be the obvious problem with the I60: PCB hasn't
          finished
          > designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with a
          > dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
          > one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
          > keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
          > to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
          > attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.
          >
          > If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
          > to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all
          weather"
          > cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode"
          when the
          > wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds or
          > to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
          > that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two
          other
          > owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
          > similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)
          >
          > -- Sue --
          > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
          > --
          > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
        • Peter Lenihan
          ... Thus, ... Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of options for
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
            wrote:
            >>
            > Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
            > rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
            > relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
            > distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
            > to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
            > the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
            > design can be. ; )
            >
            > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
            > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
            > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
            > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
            > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
            Thus,
            > what-ever I can get!
            >
            > Trailerable.
            >
            > Thanks again,
            > Jeff



            Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
            gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
            options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
            head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
            for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
            stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
            of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
            members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
            be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
            for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
            else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
            You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.

            Sincerely,

            Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
          • ken kongslie
            sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list ken
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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              sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list
              ken

              > From: "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@...>
              > Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 04:38:43 -0000
              > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?
              >
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
              > wrote:
              >>>
              >> Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
              >> rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
              >> relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
              >> distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
              >> to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
              >> the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
              >> design can be. ; )
              >>
              >> I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
              >> cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
              >> under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
              >> some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
              >> blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
              > Thus,
              >> what-ever I can get!
              >>
              >> Trailerable.
              >>
              >> Thanks again,
              >> Jeff
              >
              >
              >
              > Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
              > gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
              > options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
              > head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
              > for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
              > stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
              > of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
              > members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
              > be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
              > for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
              > else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
              > You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.
              >
              > Sincerely,
              >
              > Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
              >
              >
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
              > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
              > Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
            • pvanderwaart
              It s understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes much greater than
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                It's understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in
                our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes
                much greater than average self-confidence to tolerate a boat with a
                top speed that is 1/3 of that of the boats belonging to all your
                friends. The group intinerary will be set for the majority, and your
                participation in the fleet manouvers will be limited. (This was my
                father's experience with an underpowered Hunter 30 that motored about
                4.5 kts in fleet of better sailboats that motored at 6 kts. The speed
                difference would be greater for powerboats.) Hence, I think you need
                at least semi-displacement speed - 10 or 12 kts minimum. Besides, the
                distances in Puget Sound can be rather long.

                Second, that cruising area leads the nation in providing weather
                protection for the crew. I would be looking for a way to get folks
                undercover when it rains.

                If money was not an object and a custom design could be had, I would
                think in terms of the Mikim model, with perhaps power for a higher
                speed potential. The equivalent in a plywood boat would be the
                Plywood Diesel Cruiser. Arch Davis's v-bottom Jiffy-22 is similar.
                None of these has the accomodations set up for what you need, though.

                One boat you might look at is the Fast Motorsailer as shown in BWAOM.
                When the weather is nice and folks are happy to be either in or out,
                you could take a crowd. I'm not quite sure how many can squeeze in
                the cabin during a squall, but it's pretty roomy. You can build her
                without the rig, as was done in one notable case for which there was
                an article in MAIB (and perhaps on the web somehere). As I recall, he
                got 17 kts from a 4-stroke 50 and was dissatisfied, so went to a
                100hp and cruises in the mid-twenties. It's a homebuildable, plywood
                boat, and could be trailered.

                Interestinly enough, Bolger showed an Economy Motorsailer in his book
                The Folding Schooner. I never heard of this boat being built, but I
                always thought it was pretty cool as a powerboat. The rig cluttered
                it up, and I certainly wouldn't do that the same way now. It's a
                strip-planked 26' boat with semi-displacement lines. The comparison
                with the Fast Motorsailer is pretty interesting.

                Peter
              • Jonathan Smith
                ... Does it need to be trailerable? Jonathan
                Message 7 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
                  > Hi all,
                  > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
                  > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.

                  Does it need to be trailerable?

                  Jonathan
                • jeffsprayer
                  ... Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own dock.
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Smith"
                    <the_jopasm@y...> wrote:
                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer"
                    <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
                    > > Hi all,
                    > > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
                    > > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
                    >
                    > Does it need to be trailerable?
                    >
                    > Jonathan

                    Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own
                    dock.
                  • pep cruells
                    ... Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed after insolent , then the address will work. I mean, when the error message shows up, go
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                      > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                      > Stephan
                      >
                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
                      > <futabachan@y...> wrote:
                      > > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
                      > available
                      > > at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have
                      >
                      > > -- Sue --
                      > > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
                      > > --
                      > > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

                      Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed
                      after 'insolent', then the address will work. I mean, when
                      the 'error' message shows up, go to the address with your cursor,
                      click, it will turn blue, click again until the cursor shows up, go
                      to the 'virgule' delete it, click enter and there you go.

                      pep
                    • Ken Locarnini
                      But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                        But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give up.....
                        nunativs

                        -------Original Message-------
                        From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                        Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • lon wells
                        Any land that is in the public domain is controled by some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor. Lon ... __________________________________ Do you
                        Message 11 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                          Any land that is in the public domain is controled by
                          some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor.
                          Lon
                          --- Ken Locarnini <renueden@...> wrote:
                          > But even if you do get that waterfront property,
                          > keep it in the public domain so we can all share.
                          > Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads
                          > should give up.....
                          > nunativs
                          >
                          > -------Original Message-------
                          > From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                          > Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                          > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for
                          > NW/Puget Sound waters?
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >


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                        • Wayne Gilham
                          I ve always lusted after the Idaho design. In particular, from all I ve gathered aout it over the years, it seems to plane even when standing still --
                          Message 12 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                            I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                            In particular, from all I've gathered aout it over the years, it seems to
                            plane even when standing still -- especially, it doesn't dig a hole when
                            increasing speed. and with essentially only a bit of froth left behind
                            from your passing, the thousands of shore dwellers and anchored boaters will
                            be smiling as you pass by, even (heck, especially) at full-tilt -- a far cry
                            better in respect-for-others than those huge holes-in-the-water chopped out
                            (and rolling over the beaches) from all them inefficient Bayliners ETC ETC
                            that roil up our otherwise mostly calm waters....

                            What's unclear to me is the expected performance in a chop.... some have
                            said she should be smoother than expected 'cause the length supported by
                            water will bridge-over the waves... others think she'll just knife THRU chop
                            instead of rising up over every wave, thus not pounding (but boy could those
                            straight-sided bows throw wet spray!). HEY, any Sneakeasy owners: COMMENTS,
                            please!! I'd use prudence not to go out in anything over two or
                            three-foot chop, just wait for the waves to subside (which up here in Puget
                            Sound they almost ALWAYS do a few hours later when the current-direction
                            changes to with-the-wind instead of against-it....unless it's a big storm,
                            for which there's usually good advance warning)

                            I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (was thinking of
                            commissioning PCB to bless this idea or re-design it altogether-- maybe this
                            winter....) especially since as-designed (for Bernie Wolfard in his
                            wheelchair) she doesn't have standing headroom in the cabin, only a little
                            over 5' -- and I'd hate to destroy the good proportions by just raising the
                            cabintop on the existing design -- wonder what the up-scaling would do to
                            Phil's usually very economical use of 4x8 plywood sheets?

                            Another change for the NW would be to make the fwd & aft cockpits
                            self-draining (would need a false-floor above waterline -- but that'd be
                            only a couple of inches of "wasted space" higher, no?) -- else you'd be
                            sponging out that last bit of rainwater a bit too often (gotta keep up that
                            myth that it rains here all the time so ya all won't move here next week...
                            )

                            Put a good rowing boat up on the cabintop (how about a Platt Monfort
                            Geodesic Ultralite whitehall? pardon the blasphemy, but the light weight up
                            so high would be best for balance AND for easy-launch), a bunch of those
                            ubiquitious and cheap fold-up chinese canvas-chairs, a blow-up queen-sized
                            mattress with built-in inflator (deflate in the morning for more cabin room)
                            a prota-potti in the aft corner of the cabin, with pull-around
                            shower-curtain for privacy, A Toyoset forced-air kerosene heater (outside
                            vented) -- the most expensive "bit" at about $1200 (see http://www
                            toyotomiusa.com/products/cabinboatheaters/NS-2700-2.html), but essential for
                            NW cruising! --and HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                            tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising WEEKS
                            before any of the more intricate designs.

                            Am I nuts?

                            Wayne Gilham

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • jeffsprayer
                            ... That s what I like about this group. Those who post don t hold back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you
                            Message 13 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham"
                              <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                              > I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                              > HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                              > tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising
                              >WEEKS
                              > before any of the more intricate designs.
                              >
                              > Am I nuts?
                              >
                              > Wayne Gilham

                              That's what I like about this group. Those who post don't hold
                              back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in
                              recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you are nuts. The cure? Well, I think
                              it's a good dose of the very thing that ails you, me and the rest of
                              this board and beyound - just DO IT

                              Deciding and commiting on what to do (build) has been the
                              hardest thing for me, personally. I have soooo many factors to
                              consider that it bogles my mind at times. Precious time is
                              limited too... Thus, I want to decide once more as wisely as I can
                              given the present sum total of my affairs.

                              Idaho is way cool for what it is designed to do. It can be easily
                              modified as well. I do have the plans and many modifications
                              sketched out, but with my family size (6) and age range (7-15.5
                              ((energy needs space)) I'm afraid she's more a fast transport
                              than adventure rig. Maybe when we are few...

                              I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR AWSOME INPUT
                              POSTED ON THIS BOARD AND DIRECTLY.

                              Jeff
                              nuts II
                            • Bruce Hallman
                              When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle Harbor. If you are
                              Message 14 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                                When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below
                                the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle
                                Harbor. If you are not in a hurry, and can wait for the tide and
                                wind to be right, why not build an Illinois? She would be the
                                perfect, drift from this cove to the next cove live-aboard. It would
                                take more years than one life to explore all the coves in Puget Sound
                                and the waters to the north.
                              • rsmboatbuilder
                                I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one young child. I have
                                Message 15 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                                  continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                                  young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                                  designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                                  George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                                  view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                                  and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                                  So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                                  cloudy.
                                  Key design considerations I have -
                                  1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                                  handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                                  2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                                  eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                                  lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                                  3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                                  planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                                  etc etc etc
                                  4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                                  looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                                  looking
                                  5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                                  this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                                  sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                                  That's it and this is what I have found
                                  Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                                  Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                                  Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                                  http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                                  http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                                  OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                                  Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                                  A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                                  no powercat outdrive
                                  A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                                  Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                                  Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                                  Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                                  All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                                  boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                                  efficient.
                                  Regards and good luck!
                                  Ian
                                • Bruce Hector
                                  ... I d think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36 (version of Idaho) Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota with the
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham" <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                                    I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (version
                                    of Idaho)

                                    Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota
                                    with the head at the extreme stern in it's own "outhouse". I've long
                                    loved Minnie.

                                    Bruce Hector
                                  • Ken Locarnini
                                    You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23 , 25 , 27 lengths and they re trailerable with 8 1/2 beam. Nice pics and
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Aug 5, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23', 25', 27' lengths and they're trailerable with 8 1/2' beam. Nice pics and view of layout here:
                                      http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=coastalcrsr.html&&cart_id=2295227_23173

                                      Ken
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: rsmboatbuilder
                                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:31 PM
                                      Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?




                                      I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                                      continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                                      young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                                      designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                                      George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                                      view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                                      and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                                      So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                                      cloudy.
                                      Key design considerations I have -
                                      1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                                      handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                                      2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                                      eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                                      lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                                      3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                                      planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                                      etc etc etc
                                      4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                                      looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                                      looking
                                      5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                                      this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                                      sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                                      That's it and this is what I have found
                                      Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                                      Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                                      Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                                      http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                                      http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                                      OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                                      Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                                      A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                                      no powercat outdrive
                                      A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                                      Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                                      Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                                      Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                                      All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                                      boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                                      efficient.
                                      Regards and good luck!
                                      Ian



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                                    • timothyennuinet
                                      ... She included a comma at the end.. this one will work: http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/ --T
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Aug 14, 2003
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                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                                        > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                                        > Stephan

                                        She included a comma at the end.. this one will work:

                                        http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/

                                        --T
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