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Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

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  • Susan Davis
    ... Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite decent performance out of it.... --
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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      > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
      > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.

      Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder
      in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite
      decent performance out of it....

      -- Sue --
      (every problem looks like a nail, right?)

      --
      Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
    • jeffsprayer
      ... you ... Thanks for asking... Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart"
        <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
        > > For some 6 or so passengers, what powered designs would
        you
        > > consider for mostly day cruises with some longer runs up the
        > > coast?
        >
        > Speed requirement?

        Thanks for asking...

        Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
        rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
        relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
        distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
        to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
        the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
        design can be. ; )

        I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
        cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
        under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
        some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
        blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
        what-ever I can get!

        Trailerable.

        Thanks again,
        Jeff
      • jeffsprayer
        ... Thanks Susan, From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don t think it will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wronge? Got any
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
          <futabachan@y...> wrote:
          > > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
          > > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
          >
          > Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder
          > in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite
          > decent performance out of it....
          >
          > -- Sue --
          > (every problem looks like a nail, right?)
          >
          > --
          > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

          Thanks Susan,

          From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
          will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wronge? Got any
          pics/drawings links?.

          I'd love to learn how to sail but there just aint much of it here in
          AZ to learn-by-doing on a regular basis. Once in Washington,
          now that's one of my goals. I'd prefer using the wind and stars
          but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
          family and friends.

          Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,
          my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
          save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.

          Here is some more info from another reply I gave in case you
          didn't read it...

          > Speed requirement?

          "Thanks for asking...

          Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
          rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
          relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
          distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
          to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
          the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
          design can be. ; )

          I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
          cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
          under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
          some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
          blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
          what-ever I can get!

          Trailerable."

          Thanks for your response, Susan.
          Jeff
        • Susan Davis
          I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I m commissioning her from PCB, I ve got the shiny new hammer syndrome. But from what you write, there may
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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            I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I'm commissioning
            her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. But from
            what you write, there may actually be a match here....

            > From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
            > will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wrong? Got
            > any pics/drawings links?.

            Actually, she is a cruising boat now -- when David and I
            commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser with
            accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is available
            at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have been
            some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.
            (The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
            among other things.)

            > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
            > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
            > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
            > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
            > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
            > what-ever I can get!
            >
            > Trailerable.

            The I60 features an owner's double berth, two single berths in
            "tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep two
            more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroom through
            the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course (peeing
            over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, and enormous
            open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.

            > Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,
            > my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
            > save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.

            The main cabin of the I60 is a "birdwatcher" cabin -- everyone
            stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
            good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
            video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view through
            the huge glass windows.

            > I'd prefer using the wind and stars
            > but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
            > family and friends.

            That would be the obvious problem with the I60: PCB hasn't finished
            designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with a
            dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
            one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
            keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
            to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
            attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.

            If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
            to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all weather"
            cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode" when the
            wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds or
            to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
            that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two other
            owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
            similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)

            -- Sue --
            (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
            --
            Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
          • ben_azo
            So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious Stephan ... commissioning ... from ... with ... available ... been ... it s ... and ... Thus,
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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              So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
              Stephan

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
              <futabachan@y...> wrote:
              > I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I'm
              commissioning
              > her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. But
              from
              > what you write, there may actually be a match here....
              >
              > > From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
              > > will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wrong? Got
              > > any pics/drawings links?.
              >
              > Actually, she is a cruising boat now -- when David and I
              > commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser
              with
              > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
              available
              > at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have
              been
              > some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.
              > (The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
              > among other things.)
              >
              > > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if
              it's
              > > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
              > > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order
              and
              > > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
              > > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
              Thus,
              > > what-ever I can get!
              > >
              > > Trailerable.
              >
              > The I60 features an owner's double berth, two single berths in
              > "tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep
              two
              > more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroom
              through
              > the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course
              (peeing
              > over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, and
              enormous
              > open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.
              >
              > > Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for
              me,
              > > my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can
              give,
              > > save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.
              >
              > The main cabin of the I60 is a "birdwatcher" cabin -- everyone
              > stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
              > good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
              > video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view
              through
              > the huge glass windows.
              >
              > > I'd prefer using the wind and stars
              > > but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with
              my
              > > family and friends.
              >
              > That would be the obvious problem with the I60: PCB hasn't
              finished
              > designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with a
              > dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
              > one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
              > keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
              > to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
              > attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.
              >
              > If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
              > to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all
              weather"
              > cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode"
              when the
              > wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds or
              > to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
              > that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two
              other
              > owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
              > similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)
              >
              > -- Sue --
              > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
              > --
              > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
            • Peter Lenihan
              ... Thus, ... Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of options for
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
                wrote:
                >>
                > Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
                > rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
                > relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
                > distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
                > to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
                > the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
                > design can be. ; )
                >
                > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
                > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
                > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
                > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
                > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
                Thus,
                > what-ever I can get!
                >
                > Trailerable.
                >
                > Thanks again,
                > Jeff



                Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
                gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
                options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
                head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
                for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
                stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
                of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
                members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
                be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
                for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
                else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
                You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.

                Sincerely,

                Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
              • ken kongslie
                sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list ken
                Message 7 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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                  sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list
                  ken

                  > From: "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@...>
                  > Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 04:38:43 -0000
                  > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?
                  >
                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  >>>
                  >> Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
                  >> rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
                  >> relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
                  >> distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
                  >> to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
                  >> the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
                  >> design can be. ; )
                  >>
                  >> I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
                  >> cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
                  >> under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
                  >> some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
                  >> blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
                  > Thus,
                  >> what-ever I can get!
                  >>
                  >> Trailerable.
                  >>
                  >> Thanks again,
                  >> Jeff
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
                  > gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
                  > options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
                  > head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
                  > for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
                  > stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
                  > of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
                  > members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
                  > be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
                  > for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
                  > else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
                  > You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.
                  >
                  > Sincerely,
                  >
                  > Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Bolger rules!!!
                  > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                  > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
                  > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                  > Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • pvanderwaart
                  It s understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes much greater than
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                    It's understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in
                    our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes
                    much greater than average self-confidence to tolerate a boat with a
                    top speed that is 1/3 of that of the boats belonging to all your
                    friends. The group intinerary will be set for the majority, and your
                    participation in the fleet manouvers will be limited. (This was my
                    father's experience with an underpowered Hunter 30 that motored about
                    4.5 kts in fleet of better sailboats that motored at 6 kts. The speed
                    difference would be greater for powerboats.) Hence, I think you need
                    at least semi-displacement speed - 10 or 12 kts minimum. Besides, the
                    distances in Puget Sound can be rather long.

                    Second, that cruising area leads the nation in providing weather
                    protection for the crew. I would be looking for a way to get folks
                    undercover when it rains.

                    If money was not an object and a custom design could be had, I would
                    think in terms of the Mikim model, with perhaps power for a higher
                    speed potential. The equivalent in a plywood boat would be the
                    Plywood Diesel Cruiser. Arch Davis's v-bottom Jiffy-22 is similar.
                    None of these has the accomodations set up for what you need, though.

                    One boat you might look at is the Fast Motorsailer as shown in BWAOM.
                    When the weather is nice and folks are happy to be either in or out,
                    you could take a crowd. I'm not quite sure how many can squeeze in
                    the cabin during a squall, but it's pretty roomy. You can build her
                    without the rig, as was done in one notable case for which there was
                    an article in MAIB (and perhaps on the web somehere). As I recall, he
                    got 17 kts from a 4-stroke 50 and was dissatisfied, so went to a
                    100hp and cruises in the mid-twenties. It's a homebuildable, plywood
                    boat, and could be trailered.

                    Interestinly enough, Bolger showed an Economy Motorsailer in his book
                    The Folding Schooner. I never heard of this boat being built, but I
                    always thought it was pretty cool as a powerboat. The rig cluttered
                    it up, and I certainly wouldn't do that the same way now. It's a
                    strip-planked 26' boat with semi-displacement lines. The comparison
                    with the Fast Motorsailer is pretty interesting.

                    Peter
                  • Jonathan Smith
                    ... Does it need to be trailerable? Jonathan
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
                      > Hi all,
                      > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
                      > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.

                      Does it need to be trailerable?

                      Jonathan
                    • jeffsprayer
                      ... Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own dock.
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Smith"
                        <the_jopasm@y...> wrote:
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer"
                        <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
                        > > Hi all,
                        > > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
                        > > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
                        >
                        > Does it need to be trailerable?
                        >
                        > Jonathan

                        Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own
                        dock.
                      • pep cruells
                        ... Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed after insolent , then the address will work. I mean, when the error message shows up, go
                        Message 11 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                          > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                          > Stephan
                          >
                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
                          > <futabachan@y...> wrote:
                          > > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
                          > available
                          > > at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have
                          >
                          > > -- Sue --
                          > > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
                          > > --
                          > > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

                          Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed
                          after 'insolent', then the address will work. I mean, when
                          the 'error' message shows up, go to the address with your cursor,
                          click, it will turn blue, click again until the cursor shows up, go
                          to the 'virgule' delete it, click enter and there you go.

                          pep
                        • Ken Locarnini
                          But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give
                          Message 12 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                            But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give up.....
                            nunativs

                            -------Original Message-------
                            From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                            Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • lon wells
                            Any land that is in the public domain is controled by some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor. Lon ... __________________________________ Do you
                            Message 13 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                              Any land that is in the public domain is controled by
                              some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor.
                              Lon
                              --- Ken Locarnini <renueden@...> wrote:
                              > But even if you do get that waterfront property,
                              > keep it in the public domain so we can all share.
                              > Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads
                              > should give up.....
                              > nunativs
                              >
                              > -------Original Message-------
                              > From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                              > Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                              > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for
                              > NW/Puget Sound waters?
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >


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                            • Wayne Gilham
                              I ve always lusted after the Idaho design. In particular, from all I ve gathered aout it over the years, it seems to plane even when standing still --
                              Message 14 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                                I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                                In particular, from all I've gathered aout it over the years, it seems to
                                plane even when standing still -- especially, it doesn't dig a hole when
                                increasing speed. and with essentially only a bit of froth left behind
                                from your passing, the thousands of shore dwellers and anchored boaters will
                                be smiling as you pass by, even (heck, especially) at full-tilt -- a far cry
                                better in respect-for-others than those huge holes-in-the-water chopped out
                                (and rolling over the beaches) from all them inefficient Bayliners ETC ETC
                                that roil up our otherwise mostly calm waters....

                                What's unclear to me is the expected performance in a chop.... some have
                                said she should be smoother than expected 'cause the length supported by
                                water will bridge-over the waves... others think she'll just knife THRU chop
                                instead of rising up over every wave, thus not pounding (but boy could those
                                straight-sided bows throw wet spray!). HEY, any Sneakeasy owners: COMMENTS,
                                please!! I'd use prudence not to go out in anything over two or
                                three-foot chop, just wait for the waves to subside (which up here in Puget
                                Sound they almost ALWAYS do a few hours later when the current-direction
                                changes to with-the-wind instead of against-it....unless it's a big storm,
                                for which there's usually good advance warning)

                                I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (was thinking of
                                commissioning PCB to bless this idea or re-design it altogether-- maybe this
                                winter....) especially since as-designed (for Bernie Wolfard in his
                                wheelchair) she doesn't have standing headroom in the cabin, only a little
                                over 5' -- and I'd hate to destroy the good proportions by just raising the
                                cabintop on the existing design -- wonder what the up-scaling would do to
                                Phil's usually very economical use of 4x8 plywood sheets?

                                Another change for the NW would be to make the fwd & aft cockpits
                                self-draining (would need a false-floor above waterline -- but that'd be
                                only a couple of inches of "wasted space" higher, no?) -- else you'd be
                                sponging out that last bit of rainwater a bit too often (gotta keep up that
                                myth that it rains here all the time so ya all won't move here next week...
                                )

                                Put a good rowing boat up on the cabintop (how about a Platt Monfort
                                Geodesic Ultralite whitehall? pardon the blasphemy, but the light weight up
                                so high would be best for balance AND for easy-launch), a bunch of those
                                ubiquitious and cheap fold-up chinese canvas-chairs, a blow-up queen-sized
                                mattress with built-in inflator (deflate in the morning for more cabin room)
                                a prota-potti in the aft corner of the cabin, with pull-around
                                shower-curtain for privacy, A Toyoset forced-air kerosene heater (outside
                                vented) -- the most expensive "bit" at about $1200 (see http://www
                                toyotomiusa.com/products/cabinboatheaters/NS-2700-2.html), but essential for
                                NW cruising! --and HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                                tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising WEEKS
                                before any of the more intricate designs.

                                Am I nuts?

                                Wayne Gilham

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • jeffsprayer
                                ... That s what I like about this group. Those who post don t hold back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you
                                Message 15 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham"
                                  <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                                  > I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                                  > HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                                  > tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising
                                  >WEEKS
                                  > before any of the more intricate designs.
                                  >
                                  > Am I nuts?
                                  >
                                  > Wayne Gilham

                                  That's what I like about this group. Those who post don't hold
                                  back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in
                                  recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you are nuts. The cure? Well, I think
                                  it's a good dose of the very thing that ails you, me and the rest of
                                  this board and beyound - just DO IT

                                  Deciding and commiting on what to do (build) has been the
                                  hardest thing for me, personally. I have soooo many factors to
                                  consider that it bogles my mind at times. Precious time is
                                  limited too... Thus, I want to decide once more as wisely as I can
                                  given the present sum total of my affairs.

                                  Idaho is way cool for what it is designed to do. It can be easily
                                  modified as well. I do have the plans and many modifications
                                  sketched out, but with my family size (6) and age range (7-15.5
                                  ((energy needs space)) I'm afraid she's more a fast transport
                                  than adventure rig. Maybe when we are few...

                                  I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR AWSOME INPUT
                                  POSTED ON THIS BOARD AND DIRECTLY.

                                  Jeff
                                  nuts II
                                • Bruce Hallman
                                  When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle Harbor. If you are
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                                    When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below
                                    the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle
                                    Harbor. If you are not in a hurry, and can wait for the tide and
                                    wind to be right, why not build an Illinois? She would be the
                                    perfect, drift from this cove to the next cove live-aboard. It would
                                    take more years than one life to explore all the coves in Puget Sound
                                    and the waters to the north.
                                  • rsmboatbuilder
                                    I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one young child. I have
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                                      I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                                      continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                                      young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                                      designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                                      George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                                      view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                                      and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                                      So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                                      cloudy.
                                      Key design considerations I have -
                                      1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                                      handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                                      2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                                      eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                                      lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                                      3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                                      planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                                      etc etc etc
                                      4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                                      looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                                      looking
                                      5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                                      this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                                      sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                                      That's it and this is what I have found
                                      Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                                      Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                                      Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                                      http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                                      http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                                      OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                                      Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                                      A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                                      no powercat outdrive
                                      A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                                      Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                                      Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                                      Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                                      All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                                      boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                                      efficient.
                                      Regards and good luck!
                                      Ian
                                    • Bruce Hector
                                      ... I d think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36 (version of Idaho) Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota with the
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham" <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                                        I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (version
                                        of Idaho)

                                        Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota
                                        with the head at the extreme stern in it's own "outhouse". I've long
                                        loved Minnie.

                                        Bruce Hector
                                      • Ken Locarnini
                                        You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23 , 25 , 27 lengths and they re trailerable with 8 1/2 beam. Nice pics and
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Aug 5, 2003
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                                          You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23', 25', 27' lengths and they're trailerable with 8 1/2' beam. Nice pics and view of layout here:
                                          http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=coastalcrsr.html&&cart_id=2295227_23173

                                          Ken
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: rsmboatbuilder
                                          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:31 PM
                                          Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?




                                          I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                                          continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                                          young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                                          designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                                          George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                                          view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                                          and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                                          So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                                          cloudy.
                                          Key design considerations I have -
                                          1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                                          handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                                          2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                                          eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                                          lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                                          3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                                          planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                                          etc etc etc
                                          4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                                          looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                                          looking
                                          5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                                          this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                                          sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                                          That's it and this is what I have found
                                          Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                                          Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                                          Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                                          http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                                          http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                                          OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                                          Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                                          A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                                          no powercat outdrive
                                          A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                                          Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                                          Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                                          Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                                          All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                                          boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                                          efficient.
                                          Regards and good luck!
                                          Ian



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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • timothyennuinet
                                          ... She included a comma at the end.. this one will work: http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/ --T
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Aug 14, 2003
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                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                                            > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                                            > Stephan

                                            She included a comma at the end.. this one will work:

                                            http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/

                                            --T
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