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Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

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  • pvanderwaart
    ... Speed requirement?
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 1 3:53 PM
      > For some 6 or so passengers, what powered designs would you
      > consider for mostly day cruises with some longer runs up the
      > coast?

      Speed requirement?
    • Susan Davis
      ... Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite decent performance out of it.... --
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 1 4:37 PM
        > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
        > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.

        Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder
        in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite
        decent performance out of it....

        -- Sue --
        (every problem looks like a nail, right?)

        --
        Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
      • jeffsprayer
        ... you ... Thanks for asking... Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 1 5:19 PM
          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart"
          <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
          > > For some 6 or so passengers, what powered designs would
          you
          > > consider for mostly day cruises with some longer runs up the
          > > coast?
          >
          > Speed requirement?

          Thanks for asking...

          Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
          rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
          relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
          distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
          to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
          the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
          design can be. ; )

          I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
          cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
          under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
          some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
          blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
          what-ever I can get!

          Trailerable.

          Thanks again,
          Jeff
        • jeffsprayer
          ... Thanks Susan, From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don t think it will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wronge? Got any
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 1 6:13 PM
            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
            <futabachan@y...> wrote:
            > > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
            > > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
            >
            > Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder
            > in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite
            > decent performance out of it....
            >
            > -- Sue --
            > (every problem looks like a nail, right?)
            >
            > --
            > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

            Thanks Susan,

            From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
            will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wronge? Got any
            pics/drawings links?.

            I'd love to learn how to sail but there just aint much of it here in
            AZ to learn-by-doing on a regular basis. Once in Washington,
            now that's one of my goals. I'd prefer using the wind and stars
            but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
            family and friends.

            Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,
            my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
            save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.

            Here is some more info from another reply I gave in case you
            didn't read it...

            > Speed requirement?

            "Thanks for asking...

            Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
            rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
            relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
            distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
            to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
            the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
            design can be. ; )

            I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
            cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
            under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
            some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
            blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
            what-ever I can get!

            Trailerable."

            Thanks for your response, Susan.
            Jeff
          • Susan Davis
            I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I m commissioning her from PCB, I ve got the shiny new hammer syndrome. But from what you write, there may
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 1 7:17 PM
              I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I'm commissioning
              her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. But from
              what you write, there may actually be a match here....

              > From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
              > will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wrong? Got
              > any pics/drawings links?.

              Actually, she is a cruising boat now -- when David and I
              commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser with
              accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is available
              at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have been
              some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.
              (The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
              among other things.)

              > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
              > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
              > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
              > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
              > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
              > what-ever I can get!
              >
              > Trailerable.

              The I60 features an owner's double berth, two single berths in
              "tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep two
              more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroom through
              the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course (peeing
              over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, and enormous
              open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.

              > Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,
              > my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
              > save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.

              The main cabin of the I60 is a "birdwatcher" cabin -- everyone
              stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
              good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
              video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view through
              the huge glass windows.

              > I'd prefer using the wind and stars
              > but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
              > family and friends.

              That would be the obvious problem with the I60: PCB hasn't finished
              designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with a
              dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
              one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
              keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
              to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
              attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.

              If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
              to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all weather"
              cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode" when the
              wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds or
              to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
              that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two other
              owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
              similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)

              -- Sue --
              (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
              --
              Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
            • ben_azo
              So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious Stephan ... commissioning ... from ... with ... available ... been ... it s ... and ... Thus,
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 1 9:35 PM
                So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                Stephan

                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
                <futabachan@y...> wrote:
                > I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I'm
                commissioning
                > her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. But
                from
                > what you write, there may actually be a match here....
                >
                > > From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
                > > will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wrong? Got
                > > any pics/drawings links?.
                >
                > Actually, she is a cruising boat now -- when David and I
                > commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser
                with
                > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
                available
                > at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have
                been
                > some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.
                > (The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
                > among other things.)
                >
                > > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if
                it's
                > > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
                > > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order
                and
                > > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
                > > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
                Thus,
                > > what-ever I can get!
                > >
                > > Trailerable.
                >
                > The I60 features an owner's double berth, two single berths in
                > "tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep
                two
                > more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroom
                through
                > the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course
                (peeing
                > over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, and
                enormous
                > open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.
                >
                > > Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for
                me,
                > > my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can
                give,
                > > save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.
                >
                > The main cabin of the I60 is a "birdwatcher" cabin -- everyone
                > stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
                > good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
                > video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view
                through
                > the huge glass windows.
                >
                > > I'd prefer using the wind and stars
                > > but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with
                my
                > > family and friends.
                >
                > That would be the obvious problem with the I60: PCB hasn't
                finished
                > designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with a
                > dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
                > one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
                > keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
                > to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
                > attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.
                >
                > If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
                > to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all
                weather"
                > cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode"
                when the
                > wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds or
                > to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
                > that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two
                other
                > owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
                > similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)
                >
                > -- Sue --
                > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
                > --
                > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
              • Peter Lenihan
                ... Thus, ... Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of options for
                Message 7 of 22 , Aug 1 9:38 PM
                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >>
                  > Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
                  > rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
                  > relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
                  > distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
                  > to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
                  > the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
                  > design can be. ; )
                  >
                  > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
                  > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
                  > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
                  > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
                  > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
                  Thus,
                  > what-ever I can get!
                  >
                  > Trailerable.
                  >
                  > Thanks again,
                  > Jeff



                  Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
                  gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
                  options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
                  head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
                  for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
                  stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
                  of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
                  members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
                  be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
                  for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
                  else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
                  You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.

                  Sincerely,

                  Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
                • ken kongslie
                  sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list ken
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 1 10:58 PM
                    sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list
                    ken

                    > From: "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@...>
                    > Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 04:38:43 -0000
                    > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?
                    >
                    > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
                    > wrote:
                    >>>
                    >> Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
                    >> rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
                    >> relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
                    >> distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
                    >> to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
                    >> the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
                    >> design can be. ; )
                    >>
                    >> I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
                    >> cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
                    >> under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
                    >> some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
                    >> blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
                    > Thus,
                    >> what-ever I can get!
                    >>
                    >> Trailerable.
                    >>
                    >> Thanks again,
                    >> Jeff
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
                    > gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
                    > options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
                    > head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
                    > for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
                    > stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
                    > of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
                    > members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
                    > be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
                    > for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
                    > else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
                    > You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.
                    >
                    > Sincerely,
                    >
                    > Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Bolger rules!!!
                    > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                    > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                    > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
                    > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                    > Fax: (978) 282-1349
                    > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • pvanderwaart
                    It s understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes much greater than
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 2 6:15 AM
                      It's understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in
                      our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes
                      much greater than average self-confidence to tolerate a boat with a
                      top speed that is 1/3 of that of the boats belonging to all your
                      friends. The group intinerary will be set for the majority, and your
                      participation in the fleet manouvers will be limited. (This was my
                      father's experience with an underpowered Hunter 30 that motored about
                      4.5 kts in fleet of better sailboats that motored at 6 kts. The speed
                      difference would be greater for powerboats.) Hence, I think you need
                      at least semi-displacement speed - 10 or 12 kts minimum. Besides, the
                      distances in Puget Sound can be rather long.

                      Second, that cruising area leads the nation in providing weather
                      protection for the crew. I would be looking for a way to get folks
                      undercover when it rains.

                      If money was not an object and a custom design could be had, I would
                      think in terms of the Mikim model, with perhaps power for a higher
                      speed potential. The equivalent in a plywood boat would be the
                      Plywood Diesel Cruiser. Arch Davis's v-bottom Jiffy-22 is similar.
                      None of these has the accomodations set up for what you need, though.

                      One boat you might look at is the Fast Motorsailer as shown in BWAOM.
                      When the weather is nice and folks are happy to be either in or out,
                      you could take a crowd. I'm not quite sure how many can squeeze in
                      the cabin during a squall, but it's pretty roomy. You can build her
                      without the rig, as was done in one notable case for which there was
                      an article in MAIB (and perhaps on the web somehere). As I recall, he
                      got 17 kts from a 4-stroke 50 and was dissatisfied, so went to a
                      100hp and cruises in the mid-twenties. It's a homebuildable, plywood
                      boat, and could be trailered.

                      Interestinly enough, Bolger showed an Economy Motorsailer in his book
                      The Folding Schooner. I never heard of this boat being built, but I
                      always thought it was pretty cool as a powerboat. The rig cluttered
                      it up, and I certainly wouldn't do that the same way now. It's a
                      strip-planked 26' boat with semi-displacement lines. The comparison
                      with the Fast Motorsailer is pretty interesting.

                      Peter
                    • Jonathan Smith
                      ... Does it need to be trailerable? Jonathan
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 2 10:38 AM
                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
                        > Hi all,
                        > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
                        > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.

                        Does it need to be trailerable?

                        Jonathan
                      • jeffsprayer
                        ... Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own dock.
                        Message 11 of 22 , Aug 2 12:47 PM
                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Smith"
                          <the_jopasm@y...> wrote:
                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer"
                          <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
                          > > Hi all,
                          > > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
                          > > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
                          >
                          > Does it need to be trailerable?
                          >
                          > Jonathan

                          Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own
                          dock.
                        • pep cruells
                          ... Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed after insolent , then the address will work. I mean, when the error message shows up, go
                          Message 12 of 22 , Aug 2 8:03 PM
                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                            > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                            > Stephan
                            >
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
                            > <futabachan@y...> wrote:
                            > > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
                            > available
                            > > at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have
                            >
                            > > -- Sue --
                            > > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
                            > > --
                            > > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

                            Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed
                            after 'insolent', then the address will work. I mean, when
                            the 'error' message shows up, go to the address with your cursor,
                            click, it will turn blue, click again until the cursor shows up, go
                            to the 'virgule' delete it, click enter and there you go.

                            pep
                          • Ken Locarnini
                            But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give
                            Message 13 of 22 , Aug 2 8:10 PM
                              But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give up.....
                              nunativs

                              -------Original Message-------
                              From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                              Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • lon wells
                              Any land that is in the public domain is controled by some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor. Lon ... __________________________________ Do you
                              Message 14 of 22 , Aug 3 12:14 AM
                                Any land that is in the public domain is controled by
                                some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor.
                                Lon
                                --- Ken Locarnini <renueden@...> wrote:
                                > But even if you do get that waterfront property,
                                > keep it in the public domain so we can all share.
                                > Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads
                                > should give up.....
                                > nunativs
                                >
                                > -------Original Message-------
                                > From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                                > Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for
                                > NW/Puget Sound waters?
                                >
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                >
                                >


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                              • Wayne Gilham
                                I ve always lusted after the Idaho design. In particular, from all I ve gathered aout it over the years, it seems to plane even when standing still --
                                Message 15 of 22 , Aug 3 8:19 AM
                                  I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                                  In particular, from all I've gathered aout it over the years, it seems to
                                  plane even when standing still -- especially, it doesn't dig a hole when
                                  increasing speed. and with essentially only a bit of froth left behind
                                  from your passing, the thousands of shore dwellers and anchored boaters will
                                  be smiling as you pass by, even (heck, especially) at full-tilt -- a far cry
                                  better in respect-for-others than those huge holes-in-the-water chopped out
                                  (and rolling over the beaches) from all them inefficient Bayliners ETC ETC
                                  that roil up our otherwise mostly calm waters....

                                  What's unclear to me is the expected performance in a chop.... some have
                                  said she should be smoother than expected 'cause the length supported by
                                  water will bridge-over the waves... others think she'll just knife THRU chop
                                  instead of rising up over every wave, thus not pounding (but boy could those
                                  straight-sided bows throw wet spray!). HEY, any Sneakeasy owners: COMMENTS,
                                  please!! I'd use prudence not to go out in anything over two or
                                  three-foot chop, just wait for the waves to subside (which up here in Puget
                                  Sound they almost ALWAYS do a few hours later when the current-direction
                                  changes to with-the-wind instead of against-it....unless it's a big storm,
                                  for which there's usually good advance warning)

                                  I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (was thinking of
                                  commissioning PCB to bless this idea or re-design it altogether-- maybe this
                                  winter....) especially since as-designed (for Bernie Wolfard in his
                                  wheelchair) she doesn't have standing headroom in the cabin, only a little
                                  over 5' -- and I'd hate to destroy the good proportions by just raising the
                                  cabintop on the existing design -- wonder what the up-scaling would do to
                                  Phil's usually very economical use of 4x8 plywood sheets?

                                  Another change for the NW would be to make the fwd & aft cockpits
                                  self-draining (would need a false-floor above waterline -- but that'd be
                                  only a couple of inches of "wasted space" higher, no?) -- else you'd be
                                  sponging out that last bit of rainwater a bit too often (gotta keep up that
                                  myth that it rains here all the time so ya all won't move here next week...
                                  )

                                  Put a good rowing boat up on the cabintop (how about a Platt Monfort
                                  Geodesic Ultralite whitehall? pardon the blasphemy, but the light weight up
                                  so high would be best for balance AND for easy-launch), a bunch of those
                                  ubiquitious and cheap fold-up chinese canvas-chairs, a blow-up queen-sized
                                  mattress with built-in inflator (deflate in the morning for more cabin room)
                                  a prota-potti in the aft corner of the cabin, with pull-around
                                  shower-curtain for privacy, A Toyoset forced-air kerosene heater (outside
                                  vented) -- the most expensive "bit" at about $1200 (see http://www
                                  toyotomiusa.com/products/cabinboatheaters/NS-2700-2.html), but essential for
                                  NW cruising! --and HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                                  tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising WEEKS
                                  before any of the more intricate designs.

                                  Am I nuts?

                                  Wayne Gilham

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • jeffsprayer
                                  ... That s what I like about this group. Those who post don t hold back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Aug 3 10:09 AM
                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham"
                                    <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                                    > I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                                    > HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                                    > tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising
                                    >WEEKS
                                    > before any of the more intricate designs.
                                    >
                                    > Am I nuts?
                                    >
                                    > Wayne Gilham

                                    That's what I like about this group. Those who post don't hold
                                    back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in
                                    recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you are nuts. The cure? Well, I think
                                    it's a good dose of the very thing that ails you, me and the rest of
                                    this board and beyound - just DO IT

                                    Deciding and commiting on what to do (build) has been the
                                    hardest thing for me, personally. I have soooo many factors to
                                    consider that it bogles my mind at times. Precious time is
                                    limited too... Thus, I want to decide once more as wisely as I can
                                    given the present sum total of my affairs.

                                    Idaho is way cool for what it is designed to do. It can be easily
                                    modified as well. I do have the plans and many modifications
                                    sketched out, but with my family size (6) and age range (7-15.5
                                    ((energy needs space)) I'm afraid she's more a fast transport
                                    than adventure rig. Maybe when we are few...

                                    I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR AWSOME INPUT
                                    POSTED ON THIS BOARD AND DIRECTLY.

                                    Jeff
                                    nuts II
                                  • Bruce Hallman
                                    When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle Harbor. If you are
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Aug 3 11:01 AM
                                      When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below
                                      the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle
                                      Harbor. If you are not in a hurry, and can wait for the tide and
                                      wind to be right, why not build an Illinois? She would be the
                                      perfect, drift from this cove to the next cove live-aboard. It would
                                      take more years than one life to explore all the coves in Puget Sound
                                      and the waters to the north.
                                    • rsmboatbuilder
                                      I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one young child. I have
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Aug 3 3:31 PM
                                        I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                                        continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                                        young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                                        designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                                        George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                                        view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                                        and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                                        So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                                        cloudy.
                                        Key design considerations I have -
                                        1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                                        handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                                        2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                                        eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                                        lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                                        3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                                        planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                                        etc etc etc
                                        4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                                        looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                                        looking
                                        5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                                        this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                                        sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                                        That's it and this is what I have found
                                        Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                                        Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                                        Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                                        http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                                        http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                                        OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                                        Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                                        A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                                        no powercat outdrive
                                        A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                                        Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                                        Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                                        Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                                        All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                                        boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                                        efficient.
                                        Regards and good luck!
                                        Ian
                                      • Bruce Hector
                                        ... I d think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36 (version of Idaho) Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota with the
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Aug 3 5:16 PM
                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham" <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                                          I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (version
                                          of Idaho)

                                          Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota
                                          with the head at the extreme stern in it's own "outhouse". I've long
                                          loved Minnie.

                                          Bruce Hector
                                        • Ken Locarnini
                                          You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23 , 25 , 27 lengths and they re trailerable with 8 1/2 beam. Nice pics and
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Aug 5 4:53 PM
                                            You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23', 25', 27' lengths and they're trailerable with 8 1/2' beam. Nice pics and view of layout here:
                                            http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=coastalcrsr.html&&cart_id=2295227_23173

                                            Ken
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: rsmboatbuilder
                                            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:31 PM
                                            Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?




                                            I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                                            continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                                            young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                                            designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                                            George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                                            view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                                            and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                                            So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                                            cloudy.
                                            Key design considerations I have -
                                            1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                                            handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                                            2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                                            eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                                            lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                                            3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                                            planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                                            etc etc etc
                                            4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                                            looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                                            looking
                                            5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                                            this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                                            sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                                            That's it and this is what I have found
                                            Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                                            Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                                            Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                                            http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                                            http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                                            OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                                            Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                                            A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                                            no powercat outdrive
                                            A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                                            Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                                            Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                                            Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                                            All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                                            boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                                            efficient.
                                            Regards and good luck!
                                            Ian



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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • timothyennuinet
                                            ... She included a comma at the end.. this one will work: http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/ --T
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Aug 14 8:44 AM
                                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                                              > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                                              > Stephan

                                              She included a comma at the end.. this one will work:

                                              http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/

                                              --T
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