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Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

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  • jeffsprayer
    Hi all, ... from Phoenix, AZ! Man is it HOT, and HUMID now that the monsoon season is here. Thus I long more than ever for a move back to Washington. Back in
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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      Hi all,
      ... from Phoenix, AZ! Man is it HOT, and HUMID now that the
      monsoon season is here. Thus I long more than ever for a
      move back to Washington.

      Back in 1999 I bought Idaho plans from Jerry at Common Sense
      Boats. Didn't build it. Most recently I bought Shanteuse plans
      from Jim Michalak. Not built yet either. Both plans were my
      desire to get me and my family of six on the waters here in
      Arizona. The Idaho for lakes Mead, Powell, the non-whitewater
      lengths of the Colorado River, etc. during the cool months. The
      Shanteuse for our smaller alpine lakes in the other 9 months of
      summer.

      Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
      researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.

      For some 6 or so passengers, what powered designs would you
      consider for mostly day cruises with some longer runs up the
      coast? Not out on the ocean blue but seaworthy enough to
      handle weather upsets in the Puget Sound area.

      lengthened Micro Trawler?
      Idaho?
      Tennessee?
      Duckworks version of Tennessee?
      Watervan?
      Champlain?
      Topaz?

      Thanks for your thoughts (before I bother Mr. Bolger for his),
      Jeff West
      It's a dry heat.
    • pvanderwaart
      ... Speed requirement?
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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        > For some 6 or so passengers, what powered designs would you
        > consider for mostly day cruises with some longer runs up the
        > coast?

        Speed requirement?
      • Susan Davis
        ... Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite decent performance out of it.... --
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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          > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
          > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.

          Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder
          in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite
          decent performance out of it....

          -- Sue --
          (every problem looks like a nail, right?)

          --
          Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
        • jeffsprayer
          ... you ... Thanks for asking... Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart"
            <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
            > > For some 6 or so passengers, what powered designs would
            you
            > > consider for mostly day cruises with some longer runs up the
            > > coast?
            >
            > Speed requirement?

            Thanks for asking...

            Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
            rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
            relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
            distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
            to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
            the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
            design can be. ; )

            I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
            cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
            under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
            some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
            blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
            what-ever I can get!

            Trailerable.

            Thanks again,
            Jeff
          • jeffsprayer
            ... Thanks Susan, From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don t think it will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wronge? Got any
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
              <futabachan@y...> wrote:
              > > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
              > > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
              >
              > Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder
              > in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite
              > decent performance out of it....
              >
              > -- Sue --
              > (every problem looks like a nail, right?)
              >
              > --
              > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

              Thanks Susan,

              From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
              will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wronge? Got any
              pics/drawings links?.

              I'd love to learn how to sail but there just aint much of it here in
              AZ to learn-by-doing on a regular basis. Once in Washington,
              now that's one of my goals. I'd prefer using the wind and stars
              but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
              family and friends.

              Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,
              my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
              save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.

              Here is some more info from another reply I gave in case you
              didn't read it...

              > Speed requirement?

              "Thanks for asking...

              Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
              rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
              relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
              distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
              to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
              the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
              design can be. ; )

              I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
              cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
              under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
              some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
              blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
              what-ever I can get!

              Trailerable."

              Thanks for your response, Susan.
              Jeff
            • Susan Davis
              I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I m commissioning her from PCB, I ve got the shiny new hammer syndrome. But from what you write, there may
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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                I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I'm commissioning
                her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. But from
                what you write, there may actually be a match here....

                > From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
                > will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wrong? Got
                > any pics/drawings links?.

                Actually, she is a cruising boat now -- when David and I
                commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser with
                accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is available
                at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have been
                some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.
                (The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
                among other things.)

                > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
                > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
                > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
                > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
                > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
                > what-ever I can get!
                >
                > Trailerable.

                The I60 features an owner's double berth, two single berths in
                "tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep two
                more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroom through
                the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course (peeing
                over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, and enormous
                open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.

                > Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,
                > my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
                > save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.

                The main cabin of the I60 is a "birdwatcher" cabin -- everyone
                stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
                good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
                video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view through
                the huge glass windows.

                > I'd prefer using the wind and stars
                > but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
                > family and friends.

                That would be the obvious problem with the I60: PCB hasn't finished
                designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with a
                dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
                one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
                keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
                to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
                attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.

                If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
                to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all weather"
                cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode" when the
                wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds or
                to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
                that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two other
                owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
                similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)

                -- Sue --
                (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
                --
                Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
              • ben_azo
                So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious Stephan ... commissioning ... from ... with ... available ... been ... it s ... and ... Thus,
                Message 7 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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                  So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                  Stephan

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
                  <futabachan@y...> wrote:
                  > I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I'm
                  commissioning
                  > her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. But
                  from
                  > what you write, there may actually be a match here....
                  >
                  > > From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
                  > > will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wrong? Got
                  > > any pics/drawings links?.
                  >
                  > Actually, she is a cruising boat now -- when David and I
                  > commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser
                  with
                  > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
                  available
                  > at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have
                  been
                  > some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.
                  > (The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
                  > among other things.)
                  >
                  > > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if
                  it's
                  > > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
                  > > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order
                  and
                  > > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
                  > > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
                  Thus,
                  > > what-ever I can get!
                  > >
                  > > Trailerable.
                  >
                  > The I60 features an owner's double berth, two single berths in
                  > "tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep
                  two
                  > more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroom
                  through
                  > the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course
                  (peeing
                  > over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, and
                  enormous
                  > open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.
                  >
                  > > Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for
                  me,
                  > > my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can
                  give,
                  > > save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.
                  >
                  > The main cabin of the I60 is a "birdwatcher" cabin -- everyone
                  > stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
                  > good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
                  > video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view
                  through
                  > the huge glass windows.
                  >
                  > > I'd prefer using the wind and stars
                  > > but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with
                  my
                  > > family and friends.
                  >
                  > That would be the obvious problem with the I60: PCB hasn't
                  finished
                  > designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with a
                  > dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
                  > one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
                  > keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
                  > to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
                  > attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.
                  >
                  > If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
                  > to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all
                  weather"
                  > cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode"
                  when the
                  > wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds or
                  > to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
                  > that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two
                  other
                  > owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
                  > similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)
                  >
                  > -- Sue --
                  > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
                  > --
                  > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
                • Peter Lenihan
                  ... Thus, ... Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of options for
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
                    wrote:
                    >>
                    > Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
                    > rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
                    > relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
                    > distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
                    > to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
                    > the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
                    > design can be. ; )
                    >
                    > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
                    > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
                    > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
                    > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
                    > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
                    Thus,
                    > what-ever I can get!
                    >
                    > Trailerable.
                    >
                    > Thanks again,
                    > Jeff



                    Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
                    gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
                    options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
                    head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
                    for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
                    stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
                    of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
                    members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
                    be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
                    for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
                    else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
                    You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.

                    Sincerely,

                    Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
                  • ken kongslie
                    sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list ken
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 1, 2003
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                      sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list
                      ken

                      > From: "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@...>
                      > Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 04:38:43 -0000
                      > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?
                      >
                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
                      > wrote:
                      >>>
                      >> Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
                      >> rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
                      >> relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
                      >> distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
                      >> to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
                      >> the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
                      >> design can be. ; )
                      >>
                      >> I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
                      >> cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
                      >> under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
                      >> some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
                      >> blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
                      > Thus,
                      >> what-ever I can get!
                      >>
                      >> Trailerable.
                      >>
                      >> Thanks again,
                      >> Jeff
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
                      > gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
                      > options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
                      > head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
                      > for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
                      > stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
                      > of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
                      > members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
                      > be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
                      > for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
                      > else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
                      > You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.
                      >
                      > Sincerely,
                      >
                      > Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Bolger rules!!!
                      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                      > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                      > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
                      > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
                      > Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • pvanderwaart
                      It s understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes much greater than
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                        It's understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in
                        our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes
                        much greater than average self-confidence to tolerate a boat with a
                        top speed that is 1/3 of that of the boats belonging to all your
                        friends. The group intinerary will be set for the majority, and your
                        participation in the fleet manouvers will be limited. (This was my
                        father's experience with an underpowered Hunter 30 that motored about
                        4.5 kts in fleet of better sailboats that motored at 6 kts. The speed
                        difference would be greater for powerboats.) Hence, I think you need
                        at least semi-displacement speed - 10 or 12 kts minimum. Besides, the
                        distances in Puget Sound can be rather long.

                        Second, that cruising area leads the nation in providing weather
                        protection for the crew. I would be looking for a way to get folks
                        undercover when it rains.

                        If money was not an object and a custom design could be had, I would
                        think in terms of the Mikim model, with perhaps power for a higher
                        speed potential. The equivalent in a plywood boat would be the
                        Plywood Diesel Cruiser. Arch Davis's v-bottom Jiffy-22 is similar.
                        None of these has the accomodations set up for what you need, though.

                        One boat you might look at is the Fast Motorsailer as shown in BWAOM.
                        When the weather is nice and folks are happy to be either in or out,
                        you could take a crowd. I'm not quite sure how many can squeeze in
                        the cabin during a squall, but it's pretty roomy. You can build her
                        without the rig, as was done in one notable case for which there was
                        an article in MAIB (and perhaps on the web somehere). As I recall, he
                        got 17 kts from a 4-stroke 50 and was dissatisfied, so went to a
                        100hp and cruises in the mid-twenties. It's a homebuildable, plywood
                        boat, and could be trailered.

                        Interestinly enough, Bolger showed an Economy Motorsailer in his book
                        The Folding Schooner. I never heard of this boat being built, but I
                        always thought it was pretty cool as a powerboat. The rig cluttered
                        it up, and I certainly wouldn't do that the same way now. It's a
                        strip-planked 26' boat with semi-displacement lines. The comparison
                        with the Fast Motorsailer is pretty interesting.

                        Peter
                      • Jonathan Smith
                        ... Does it need to be trailerable? Jonathan
                        Message 11 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
                          > Hi all,
                          > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
                          > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.

                          Does it need to be trailerable?

                          Jonathan
                        • jeffsprayer
                          ... Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own dock.
                          Message 12 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Smith"
                            <the_jopasm@y...> wrote:
                            > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer"
                            <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
                            > > Hi all,
                            > > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
                            > > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
                            >
                            > Does it need to be trailerable?
                            >
                            > Jonathan

                            Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own
                            dock.
                          • pep cruells
                            ... Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed after insolent , then the address will work. I mean, when the error message shows up, go
                            Message 13 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                              > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                              > Stephan
                              >
                              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
                              > <futabachan@y...> wrote:
                              > > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
                              > available
                              > > at http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent, but there have
                              >
                              > > -- Sue --
                              > > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
                              > > --
                              > > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>

                              Stephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed
                              after 'insolent', then the address will work. I mean, when
                              the 'error' message shows up, go to the address with your cursor,
                              click, it will turn blue, click again until the cursor shows up, go
                              to the 'virgule' delete it, click enter and there you go.

                              pep
                            • Ken Locarnini
                              But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give
                              Message 14 of 22 , Aug 2, 2003
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                                But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give up.....
                                nunativs

                                -------Original Message-------
                                From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                                Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?

                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • lon wells
                                Any land that is in the public domain is controled by some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor. Lon ... __________________________________ Do you
                                Message 15 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                                  Any land that is in the public domain is controled by
                                  some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor.
                                  Lon
                                  --- Ken Locarnini <renueden@...> wrote:
                                  > But even if you do get that waterfront property,
                                  > keep it in the public domain so we can all share.
                                  > Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads
                                  > should give up.....
                                  > nunativs
                                  >
                                  > -------Original Message-------
                                  > From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
                                  > Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
                                  > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for
                                  > NW/Puget Sound waters?
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > removed]
                                  >
                                  >


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                                • Wayne Gilham
                                  I ve always lusted after the Idaho design. In particular, from all I ve gathered aout it over the years, it seems to plane even when standing still --
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
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                                    I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                                    In particular, from all I've gathered aout it over the years, it seems to
                                    plane even when standing still -- especially, it doesn't dig a hole when
                                    increasing speed. and with essentially only a bit of froth left behind
                                    from your passing, the thousands of shore dwellers and anchored boaters will
                                    be smiling as you pass by, even (heck, especially) at full-tilt -- a far cry
                                    better in respect-for-others than those huge holes-in-the-water chopped out
                                    (and rolling over the beaches) from all them inefficient Bayliners ETC ETC
                                    that roil up our otherwise mostly calm waters....

                                    What's unclear to me is the expected performance in a chop.... some have
                                    said she should be smoother than expected 'cause the length supported by
                                    water will bridge-over the waves... others think she'll just knife THRU chop
                                    instead of rising up over every wave, thus not pounding (but boy could those
                                    straight-sided bows throw wet spray!). HEY, any Sneakeasy owners: COMMENTS,
                                    please!! I'd use prudence not to go out in anything over two or
                                    three-foot chop, just wait for the waves to subside (which up here in Puget
                                    Sound they almost ALWAYS do a few hours later when the current-direction
                                    changes to with-the-wind instead of against-it....unless it's a big storm,
                                    for which there's usually good advance warning)

                                    I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (was thinking of
                                    commissioning PCB to bless this idea or re-design it altogether-- maybe this
                                    winter....) especially since as-designed (for Bernie Wolfard in his
                                    wheelchair) she doesn't have standing headroom in the cabin, only a little
                                    over 5' -- and I'd hate to destroy the good proportions by just raising the
                                    cabintop on the existing design -- wonder what the up-scaling would do to
                                    Phil's usually very economical use of 4x8 plywood sheets?

                                    Another change for the NW would be to make the fwd & aft cockpits
                                    self-draining (would need a false-floor above waterline -- but that'd be
                                    only a couple of inches of "wasted space" higher, no?) -- else you'd be
                                    sponging out that last bit of rainwater a bit too often (gotta keep up that
                                    myth that it rains here all the time so ya all won't move here next week...
                                    )

                                    Put a good rowing boat up on the cabintop (how about a Platt Monfort
                                    Geodesic Ultralite whitehall? pardon the blasphemy, but the light weight up
                                    so high would be best for balance AND for easy-launch), a bunch of those
                                    ubiquitious and cheap fold-up chinese canvas-chairs, a blow-up queen-sized
                                    mattress with built-in inflator (deflate in the morning for more cabin room)
                                    a prota-potti in the aft corner of the cabin, with pull-around
                                    shower-curtain for privacy, A Toyoset forced-air kerosene heater (outside
                                    vented) -- the most expensive "bit" at about $1200 (see http://www
                                    toyotomiusa.com/products/cabinboatheaters/NS-2700-2.html), but essential for
                                    NW cruising! --and HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                                    tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising WEEKS
                                    before any of the more intricate designs.

                                    Am I nuts?

                                    Wayne Gilham

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • jeffsprayer
                                    ... That s what I like about this group. Those who post don t hold back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham"
                                      <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                                      > I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.

                                      > HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
                                      > tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising
                                      >WEEKS
                                      > before any of the more intricate designs.
                                      >
                                      > Am I nuts?
                                      >
                                      > Wayne Gilham

                                      That's what I like about this group. Those who post don't hold
                                      back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in
                                      recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you are nuts. The cure? Well, I think
                                      it's a good dose of the very thing that ails you, me and the rest of
                                      this board and beyound - just DO IT

                                      Deciding and commiting on what to do (build) has been the
                                      hardest thing for me, personally. I have soooo many factors to
                                      consider that it bogles my mind at times. Precious time is
                                      limited too... Thus, I want to decide once more as wisely as I can
                                      given the present sum total of my affairs.

                                      Idaho is way cool for what it is designed to do. It can be easily
                                      modified as well. I do have the plans and many modifications
                                      sketched out, but with my family size (6) and age range (7-15.5
                                      ((energy needs space)) I'm afraid she's more a fast transport
                                      than adventure rig. Maybe when we are few...

                                      I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR AWSOME INPUT
                                      POSTED ON THIS BOARD AND DIRECTLY.

                                      Jeff
                                      nuts II
                                    • Bruce Hallman
                                      When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle Harbor. If you are
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below
                                        the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle
                                        Harbor. If you are not in a hurry, and can wait for the tide and
                                        wind to be right, why not build an Illinois? She would be the
                                        perfect, drift from this cove to the next cove live-aboard. It would
                                        take more years than one life to explore all the coves in Puget Sound
                                        and the waters to the north.
                                      • rsmboatbuilder
                                        I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one young child. I have
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                                          continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                                          young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                                          designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                                          George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                                          view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                                          and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                                          So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                                          cloudy.
                                          Key design considerations I have -
                                          1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                                          handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                                          2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                                          eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                                          lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                                          3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                                          planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                                          etc etc etc
                                          4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                                          looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                                          looking
                                          5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                                          this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                                          sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                                          That's it and this is what I have found
                                          Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                                          Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                                          Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                                          http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                                          http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                                          OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                                          Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                                          A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                                          no powercat outdrive
                                          A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                                          Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                                          Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                                          Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                                          All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                                          boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                                          efficient.
                                          Regards and good luck!
                                          Ian
                                        • Bruce Hector
                                          ... I d think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36 (version of Idaho) Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota with the
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Aug 3, 2003
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham" <wgilham@h...> wrote:
                                            I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (version
                                            of Idaho)

                                            Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota
                                            with the head at the extreme stern in it's own "outhouse". I've long
                                            loved Minnie.

                                            Bruce Hector
                                          • Ken Locarnini
                                            You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23 , 25 , 27 lengths and they re trailerable with 8 1/2 beam. Nice pics and
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Aug 5, 2003
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23', 25', 27' lengths and they're trailerable with 8 1/2' beam. Nice pics and view of layout here:
                                              http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=coastalcrsr.html&&cart_id=2295227_23173

                                              Ken
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: rsmboatbuilder
                                              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:31 PM
                                              Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?




                                              I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
                                              continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
                                              young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
                                              designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
                                              George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
                                              view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
                                              and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
                                              So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
                                              cloudy.
                                              Key design considerations I have -
                                              1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
                                              handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
                                              2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
                                              eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
                                              lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
                                              3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
                                              planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
                                              etc etc etc
                                              4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
                                              looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
                                              looking
                                              5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
                                              this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
                                              sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc

                                              That's it and this is what I have found
                                              Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90% http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
                                              Bayside 29 close too http://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
                                              Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
                                              http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJennifer also violates some
                                              http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
                                              OK and now for the Bolger candidates
                                              Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
                                              A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
                                              no powercat outdrive
                                              A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
                                              Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
                                              Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM

                                              Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc

                                              All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
                                              boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
                                              efficient.
                                              Regards and good luck!
                                              Ian



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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • timothyennuinet
                                              ... She included a comma at the end.. this one will work: http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/ --T
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Aug 14, 2003
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
                                                > So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
                                                > Stephan

                                                She included a comma at the end.. this one will work:

                                                http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/

                                                --T
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