Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [bolger] Re: Bruce's teal mast

Expand Messages
  • welshman@ptialaska.net
    Bruce Check out http://www.sailcut.com/ for free program to give the shape and cut of the panels HJ ... From: Frank San Miguel sanmi@yahoo.com Date: Fri, 01
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Bruce

      Check out

      http://www.sailcut.com/

      for free program to give the shape and cut of the panels

      HJ

      Original Message:
      -----------------
      From: Frank San Miguel sanmi@...
      Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:03:14 -0000
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [bolger] Re: Bruce's teal mast



      > I am also curious of opinions of
      > how to cut the sail. Leech and
      > foot straight, the luff should be
      > 'fattened' by 3" is my guess.
      > Though, perhaps the flexibility
      > of the needle thin mast might
      > be enough for the 'fattening'
      > of the sail without any special cut.

      I don't think so - especially with a bendy mast. I've found with my
      spritsail (Michalak AF3) that if I tighten the snotter too much, the
      mast bends and takes out enough of the draft (baggieness) that my
      upwind performance really suffers. In fact, I think I read somewhere
      that flattening the sail by tightening the snotter was used by old
      timers to reduce the forces in heavy winds.

      I believe there are two ways to build draft into the luff of a sail
      and my AF-3 sail has both:
      1. Sew in a foil shape. Michalak writes a lot about using "darts" to
      do this. You can also cut each panel like an orange peel so that when
      you assemble them, they come out to the right foil shape. I bought
      pre-cut panels from Sailrite and love the sail, but it wasn't cheap.
      2. Cut the luff of the sail with a slight convex bow. This increases
      the draft when the mast is straight, but when the mast bends the draft
      gets taken out. Kind of automatically de-powering when the wind
      blows. The leg-o-mutton spritsail mast also spills air from the top
      part when you heel low.

      So the bendyness of the mast probably makes a difference in how you
      cut your sail. For your mast, you might consider using the dart or
      orange peel method and put in a lot of draft (it really doesn't take
      any more time once you start sewing). Before I made my AF3 sail, I
      read all of Michalak's excellent articles and then bought "Sailmaker's
      Apprentice" The book is worth it just for the pictures and background
      info.

      Frank



      --------------------------------------------------------------------
      mail2web - Check your email from the web at
      http://mail2web.com/ .
    • Peter Lenihan
      ... Bruce, I built a SURF many many moons ago and recall going to a local sailmaker.He wanted to know all sorts of things like,how come no reef points, and why
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 1, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <brucehallman@y...>
        wrote:
        > Am wondering if that much sail
        > without a way to reef might be
        > a problem in certain winds???
        >
        > I am also curious of opinions of
        > how to cut the sail. Leech and
        > foot straight, the luff should be
        > 'fattened' by 3" is my guess.
        > Though, perhaps the flexibility
        > of the needle thin mast might
        > be enough for the 'fattening'
        > of the sail without any special cut.
        >
        > Anybody know how to cut a Teal sail?

        Bruce,
        I built a SURF many many moons ago and recall going to a local
        sailmaker.He wanted to know all sorts of things like,how come no reef
        points, and why the sail on the plans appeared to be cut rather
        flat.He also wanted to know how much the mast will bend.
        I knew even less then,than I do today about sails and figured I
        get the answers from the "horse's mouth". So,I called Bolger(these
        were in the days when he actually posted a phone number with his
        study plans).He picked up on the second ring.After some very light
        chit-chat,I put my sailmakers questions to him.With an economy of
        words that has to be heard to be appreciated,Bolger replied,in
        brief,cut the sail to the dimensions on the plans;do not try to guess
        mast bend since it varies according to building method and wood
        species and no reef points;the boat was not designed to be used in
        winds that would require reef points;if your sailmaker can't do
        it,then order the one available from Bondhle(sp).
        Sure 'nough,my sailmaker said he couldn't do it.I order may sail
        and used the SURF for several years with great satisfaction and
        happiness.Always respected the small craft warnings too,since I was
        convinced they were just for me :-)
        The TEAL is even smaller then the SURF, and I can only imagine
        that pretty much all of the above would basically apply too.

        Sincerely,
        Peter Lenihan
      • oneillparker
        ... Reefing by rolling around the mast won t let you rig the sprit. Big drawback. Old-time New Haven sharpies used to have brails up the luff to allow reefing
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 2, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          >
          > Am wondering if that much sail
          > without a way to reef might be
          > a problem in certain winds???

          Reefing by rolling around the mast won't let you rig the sprit. Big
          drawback. Old-time New Haven sharpies used to have brails up the luff
          to allow reefing that way.
          I put reef points on my Cartoppers' sails. Same rig. They work great.
          Obviously you'll need a halyard. Halyards add a lot of stress to a
          mast. Bolger specifies mast dimensions for these rigs without
          figuring in halyard stress. If you go the halyard route (and I've
          sailed my Cartoppers reefed many, many times, with great enjoyment),
          you'll want to dimension the mast a little bigger, or, rig up a jam
          cleat at the mast head to relieve halyard stress. I use an open type
          cleat mounted about 12" down from the masthead, in way of the
          halyard. I hoist as usual, look up to make sure the halyard is in the
          jam cleat, secure the downhaul, then I can let go the halyard and the
          sail stays up. It works like a charm, and tremdously reduces mast
          bend. When you want to douse sail, just pull the halyard away from
          the mast, the jam cleat lets go, and down she comes.


          > I am also curious of opinions of
          > how to cut the sail. Leech and
          > foot straight, the luff should be
          > 'fattened' by 3" is my guess.
          > Though, perhaps the flexibility
          > of the needle thin mast might
          > be enough for the 'fattening'
          > of the sail without any special cut.

          You do want some mast bend. It will significantly de-power the sail
          in gusts.
          Cut the foot dead straight. Cut some hollow in the leech to avoid
          flutter. You do want draft, and a fair about of it because its a
          catboat (no jib to help direct mainsail flow), so cut the luff about
          3%-5% longer than the chord (horizantal dimension of the sail at any
          given point). That number is gleaned from "The Sailmakers Apprentice"
          by Emiliano Marino.

          In higher winds tighten the snotter, the mast bends, and takes the
          round out of the luff, flattening the sail and de-powering it.
          Downwind in light air loosen the snotter and allow the sail to
          billow, giving more power. In medium/high winds, downwind, tighten
          the snotter to flatten sail and reduce/eliminate rythmic roll (a
          scary thing). You might consider rigging up the snotter so you can
          alter its verticle position. This gives you some additional leech
          control. In lighter winds set it low on the mast, in higher winds set
          it high. In real high winds set it lower (but not low) allowing the
          leech to open and spilling some breeze, while yet allowing the
          snotter to be kept tight, bending that mast (further de-powering).

          I bought my sails, pre-cut but not assembled, from Sailrite, and have
          been quite pleased with them (although I don't think they cut enough
          draft into them).

          Hope that helps.

          John O'Neill
        • uncleralph123
          ... Frank What is the beam of White Eel? Ralph
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 3, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
            > White eel is the same sort of plywood construction as Tahiti. Long
            > but narrow.
            >

            Frank

            What is the beam of White Eel?

            Ralph
          • Frank San Miguel
            I couldn t rememebr the beam so I pulled out the study drawings. Here are some Specs for White Eel: 69 length overall 64 6 length at waterline 11 7 Breadth
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 4, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              I couldn't rememebr the beam so I pulled out the study drawings. Here
              are some Specs for White Eel:
              69' length overall
              64'6" length at waterline
              11'7" Breadth over rub moldings
              9'0" Breadth bottom
              2'8" draft over skeg ar full fuel
              1'11" Load hull draft
              11'9" Height overall
              9'7" Bridge clearance loaded
              Displacement w/ full fuel load: 52,100 lb
              Max hullspeed (nominal): 10.76 knots, possibly exceeding with her
              slender shape.

              Some other neat features:
              - something like 5000 nm range
              - a 15' birdwatcher-style sailing beach cruiser kept on deck
              - 4" thick bottom, probably having a steel shoe, 2" thick sides
              with extra 2" blue foam insulation

              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "uncleralph123" <UncleRalph@a...> wrote:
              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Frank San Miguel" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
              > > White eel is the same sort of plywood construction as Tahiti. Long
              > > but narrow.
              > >
              >
              > Frank
              >
              > What is the beam of White Eel?
              >
              > Ralph
            • Susan Davis
              ... Which design is that? -- Susan Davis
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 4, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                > - a 15' birdwatcher-style sailing beach cruiser kept on deck

                Which design is that?

                --
                Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
              • Frank San Miguel
                Susan, Its a yet-to-be-designed 15 boat. If you want to imagine it : take a tortoise, extend it to 15 , add a birdwatcher cabin and some of the latest PCB&F
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 5, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Susan,

                  Its a yet-to-be-designed 15' boat. If you want to imagine it : take a
                  tortoise, extend it to 15', add a birdwatcher cabin and some of the
                  latest PCB&F styling, add a sail rig.

                  Frank

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
                  > > - a 15' birdwatcher-style sailing beach cruiser kept on deck
                  >
                  > Which design is that?
                  >
                  > --
                  > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.