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[bolger] Re: Bolger's Sneakeasy

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  • David Ryan
    ... 3 to 5 foot chop isn t just big, it s huge. Any boat, regardless of haul style, would have to be ENORMOUS to move at planing speeds through seas that short
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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      >3 to 5 feet is a BIG chop.

      3 to 5 foot chop isn't just big, it's huge. Any boat, regardless of
      haul style, would have to be ENORMOUS to move at planing speeds
      through seas that short and big with any degree of comfort.

      Could you sneak a Sneakeasy through seas like that at low speed?
      Perhaps. But it's not going to be dry, easy or fun (well maybe that
      depends on your definition of fun); and the consequences of a mistake
      are not trivial.

      The easiest solution is build the Sneakeasy, either the flat or
      step-hulled version. Then you can enjoy her good looks and grace
      under pleasant conditions, and use it's high speed capacity to run
      for home at the first sign of weather closing in.

      YIBB,

      David
      --

      C.E.P.
      415 W.46th Street
      New York, New York 10036
      http://www.crumblingempire.com
      Mobile (646) 325-8325
      Office (212) 247-0296
    • Harry James
      I have been holding back on this one, David pretty well covers my thoughts. As far as cost goes, find out what all the materials cost the way your going to
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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        I have been holding back on this one, David pretty well covers my
        thoughts. As far as cost goes, find out what all the materials cost the
        way your going to build it, there are varying levels of materials that
        you can use. Account for every thing that you can think of and price
        those materials locally. Add 50% more if you think you did a good job,
        double it if you didn't and that might be what it costs. That is why
        nobody has given you a dollar amount, it is a big variable.

        Check out Fritz Funk's site at

        http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Sneakeasy/Sneakeasy.htm

        He might be able to tell you what it cost him.

        We get 70+ knot storms here and waves a lot bigger than 3-5 ft.
        Fritz doesn't go out in that.

        HJ

        David Ryan wrote:

        >>3 to 5 feet is a BIG chop.
        >>
        >>
        >
        >3 to 5 foot chop isn't just big, it's huge. Any boat, regardless of
        >haul style, would have to be ENORMOUS to move at planing speeds
        >through seas that short and big with any degree of comfort.
        >
        >Could you sneak a Sneakeasy through seas like that at low speed?
        >Perhaps. But it's not going to be dry, easy or fun (well maybe that
        >depends on your definition of fun); and the consequences of a mistake
        >are not trivial.
        >
        >The easiest solution is build the Sneakeasy, either the flat or
        >step-hulled version. Then you can enjoy her good looks and grace
        >under pleasant conditions, and use it's high speed capacity to run
        >for home at the first sign of weather closing in.
        >
        >YIBB,
        >
        >David
        >
        >
      • craig o'donnell
        ... Most - or all - boats I own are not boats for a 5 ft chop! I am sure the Sneakeasy could handle a 5 ft chop but you had best go very, very slowly. Sharpies
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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          >3. This is not a boat to take out in a 5 ft. chop. I'd reckon it
          >would be pretty uncomfortable in waves more 18 inches high and
          >dangerous once you got to 3 ft, possibly less. Either plan to stay
          >home when the weather is like that, or look for a completely
          >different design.

          Most - or all - boats I own are not boats for a 5 ft chop! I am sure
          the Sneakeasy could handle a 5 ft chop but you had best go very, very
          slowly.

          Sharpies are not unseaworthy boats, but power sharpies of this sort
          are not meant for bashing through 20-30mph winds and 5 ft chop (as in
          for example today on the Chesapeake). The windage would likely get
          you before the chop did.

          The chop issue is supposed to be addressed by the "box keel version"
          which Greg Carlson built. This boat will handle rougher ("rougher"
          being in quotes, nad not meaning 5 ft chop) waters at better speed...
          it's marginally harder to build but Greg seemed to have found it
          pretty straightforward.

          I've ridden out some 2-3 foot chop in an Oldshoe. Very wet! But I
          didn't feel like the boat was going to drown me, at least not by
          sinking. I've hit a couple 5 ft "rogue chop" waves in a Ranger 23.
          Really uncomfortable. I would not want to be out in that in anything.
          All of this nasty stuff is in the mouth of the Chester River on the
          Chesapeake where current and tide can be against a 20-some mile fetch
          out of the Northwest and a lumpy, shoaling bottom to boot.
          --
          Craig O'Donnell
          Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
          <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
          The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
          The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
          Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
          American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
          Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
          _________________________________

          -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
          -- Macintosh kinda guy
          Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
          _________________________________
          ---
          [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
        • Lincoln Ross
          I have had a couple of rides in a Sneakeasy, and it s a very nice boat, but I don t think it would be good in choppy water. That was the simple version, but 3
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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            I have had a couple of rides in a Sneakeasy, and it's a very nice boat,
            but I don't think it would be good in choppy water. That was the simple
            version, but 3 to 5 feet is a BIG chop. I'm not sure any planing
            outboard is going to be happy with that kind of chop. On smooth water
            it's very stable, elegant, and comfortable and moves along at a good
            clip on low power. You're not likely to go water skiing, though.

            Cost is going to depend very much on what kind of materials you use and
            on whether you want to use a small, used motor or a big new motor
            (though I don't think you can go very large on Sneakeasy). If I had
            bucks and a Sneakeasy I'd want a 4 stroke because they are cleaner and
            much quieter.

            You might consider building a really minimal boat first to see how you
            like building and to make your mistakes where they don't matter as much.
            Sneakeasy is simple, but it's a much bigger project than a dinghy or
            pirogue. Go look at:
            www.instantboats.com and
            http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jim/michalak.htm
            I also recommend the books by Payson (on the first site) and Michalak
            (on the second site) to give you an idea of what's involved. The Payson
            book is probably available in your library or by interlibrary loan. If
            your eventual goal is a Sneakeasy, I'd stick to the boats that use chine
            logs instead of "tack and tape" or "stitch and glue" construction. Also,
            for this first, minimal boat, go ahead and use cheap materials like
            exterior ply. A small boat can be a lot of fun, too. If you don't like
            rowing or paddling, you can use a trolling motor or something.
            (Outboards tend to weigh down the back and overpower the boat, though
            some of these designs are meant for a SMALL motor.)

            I don't know how long Sneakeasy takes to build, but I designed and built
            a really minimal dinghy in 60 hours or so. A lot of that was designing
            and shopping around for materials, or at least that's the way I
            remember. I'm not real fast with this kind of thing.

            I've never heard of a Sneakeasy kit.

            >In a message dated Sat, 31 May 2003 5:21:00 PM AEST, "ogarianoxman" <slloyd@...> writes:
            >
            >>Hello everyone,
            >>
            >>I am thinking of building a boat, for the first time. I have no
            >>experience - but learn quickly ;)
            >>I am really liking the Sneakeasy boat and was wondering if anyone
            >>has built this model? I have found several web links around the net
            >>that describe people's experience, but i do not see answers to these
            >>questions:
            >>
            >>- how much, after all is said & done, does construction of this boat
            >>cost?
            >>- how easy is this model to build for a first timer?
            >>- how does this boat perform in choppy water (i plan to use it on a
            >>lake that sometimes sees 3 - 5 feet waves)
            >>- how long does it take to build?
            >>
            >>can anyone recommend a place to purchase plans and/or a kit for this
            >>boat? Canadian links would be appreciated
            >>
            >>thanks for your input
            >>slloyd
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • philippe peltier
            3 to 5 feet is perhaps huge for pond boats captains, but it s very very common on large lakes and at sea.. ;-) I remember tempests on the Leman lake near
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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              3 to 5 feet is perhaps huge for pond boats captains, but it's very very
              common on large lakes and at sea.. ;-)
              I remember tempests on the Leman lake near Geneva which were worth those
              you meet at open sea...

              Anyway sneakeasy is all but what you need to navigate in conditions such
              as these.. unless you like to get wet to the bones or intend to use her
              as a wave piercer ;-)
              I remember Steve Bosquette gave his one up mainly because of this, after
              brainstorming for months on a way to build a deck that would allow him
              to stay dry.

              --
              Phil.

              -----Message d'origine-----
              De : David Ryan [mailto:david@...]
              Envoyé : Sunday, June 01, 2003 5:40 PM
              À : bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Objet : [bolger] Re: Bolger's Sneakeasy



              >3 to 5 feet is a BIG chop.

              3 to 5 foot chop isn't just big, it's huge. Any boat, regardless of
              haul style, would have to be ENORMOUS to move at planing speeds
              through seas that short and big with any degree of comfort.

              Could you sneak a Sneakeasy through seas like that at low speed?
              Perhaps. But it's not going to be dry, easy or fun (well maybe that
              depends on your definition of fun); and the consequences of a mistake
              are not trivial.

              The easiest solution is build the Sneakeasy, either the flat or
              step-hulled version. Then you can enjoy her good looks and grace
              under pleasant conditions, and use it's high speed capacity to run
              for home at the first sign of weather closing in.

              YIBB,

              David
              --

              C.E.P.
              415 W.46th Street
              New York, New York 10036
              http://www.crumblingempire.com
              Mobile (646) 325-8325
              Office (212) 247-0296


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • craig o'donnell
              ... Cheasapeake s a pretty big pond, then. 3 feet is not uncommon but 5 feet takes a good steady 20 knot breeze for 12 to 24 hours (at a guess), certainly for
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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                >3 to 5 feet is perhaps huge for pond boats captains, but it's very very
                >common on large lakes and at sea.. ;-)

                Cheasapeake's a pretty big pond, then. 3 feet is not uncommon but 5
                feet takes a good steady 20 knot breeze for 12 to 24 hours (at a
                guess), certainly for the middle and upper Bay. I suppose there is a
                government site somewhere with average wave heights on the Chesapeake
                Bay. I think I'll go see if I can find one.

                Also, there are places where the tides and currents build up steeper,
                taller waves so it's hard to generalize over the whole Bay. I have
                never sailed around the mouth of the Potomac River but that is a
                notorious place for getting beat around in the bobble.

                And the tides vary a lot, because the Bay is so long. Some places
                have one high tide a day, some two, and Annapolis has almost no tide
                as there the old ebb and new flow overlap and tend to cancel.
                --
                Craig O'Donnell
                Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                _________________________________

                -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                -- Macintosh kinda guy
                Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                _________________________________
                ---
                [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
              • stephensonhw@aol.com
                Phil, Do you mean it is not an instant boat because it is a New Instant Boat, as featured in Payson s second boatbuilding book? Because it is. I think a Diablo
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 3, 2003
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                  Phil,

                  Do you mean it is not an instant boat because it is a New Instant Boat, as featured in Payson's second boatbuilding book? Because it is.

                  I think a Diablo would be a lot quicker and easier to build than a Sneakeasy.

                  Howard

                  In a message dated Tue, 3 Jun 2003 4:24:45 PM AEST, Phil Smith <pbs@...> writes:

                  >If you want Bolger's most seaworthy outboard boat I think it would be
                  >either Diablo or Diablo Grande. Phil has written of his own Diablo's
                  >seaworthiness in MAIB and Diablo's ability to handle bad weather and high
                  >seas. Unfortunately for us inexperienced boat builders, Diablo is not an
                  >"instant" boat.
                • slloyd
                  wow.. has it only been 9 years? =D I haven t built this boat yet, but i never forgot about it. i am getting closer to it being a good time in my life to
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 1 9:35 AM
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                    wow.. has it only been 9 years? =D

                    I haven't built this boat yet, but i never forgot about it. i am getting closer to it being a good time in my life to build. now have regular access to an inland lake which only sees waves as created by other boaters.

                    i am pretty comfortably reading the instant book (and new instant book) and start building. but I am wondering .. how does one flip the boat over to epoxy the inside? at 26' and probably a couple hundred pounds... i will be building outside (under temporary shed, with grass under foot). so i was thinking of dropping in some 6x6 posts and then beam across the top just incase i need a hand with a lift? just a random idea.

                    my other question .. do you think a sneakeasy could pull a waterski ? i read that sneakeasy is max with a 30HP motor, but maybe this is enough?

                    i'm slowly getting excited to finally build. good things come to those that wait!

                    slloyd




                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, stephensonhw@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Phil,
                    >
                    > Do you mean it is not an instant boat because it is a New Instant Boat, as featured in Payson's second boatbuilding book? Because it is.
                    >
                    > I think a Diablo would be a lot quicker and easier to build than a Sneakeasy.
                    >
                    > Howard
                    >
                    > In a message dated Tue, 3 Jun 2003 4:24:45 PM AEST, Phil Smith <pbs@...> writes:
                    >
                    > >If you want Bolger's most seaworthy outboard boat I think it would be
                    > >either Diablo or Diablo Grande. Phil has written of his own Diablo's
                    > >seaworthiness in MAIB and Diablo's ability to handle bad weather and high
                    > >seas. Unfortunately for us inexperienced boat builders, Diablo is not an
                    > >"instant" boat.
                    >
                  • Maximo
                    The flip is easy :) for a sneakeasy you need about 5 friends, and lots of food and drinks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyIa2fs07WU Maximo
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 1 10:07 AM
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                      The flip is easy :)
                      for a sneakeasy you need about 5 friends, and lots of food and drinks
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyIa2fs07WU
                      Maximo
                    • Harry James
                      I lived two doors down from Fritz Funk, helped with the launching of his Sneakeasy, have made several trips in it before he moved it to WI. You are not going
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 2 12:44 PM
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                        I lived two doors down from Fritz Funk, helped with the launching of his
                        Sneakeasy, have made several trips in it before he moved it to WI. You
                        are not going to tow skiers with it. 30 HP is overkill, I would put an
                        18 hp max. I believe Fritz uses a 15 HP and we have cruised it with 4
                        on board no problem. It is an amazing boat, no transition to plane it
                        just rises up out of the water level. Chop doesn't bother it. I would
                        rate the hull as easier to build than a Diablo. I personally think it is
                        one of Bolger's most brilliant designs. It never ceases to amaze me how
                        many people like it and then want to modify the design.

                        HJ

                        On 7/1/2012 8:35 AM, slloyd wrote:
                        > wow.. has it only been 9 years? =D
                        >
                        > I haven't built this boat yet, but i never forgot about it. i am getting closer to it being a good time in my life to build. now have regular access to an inland lake which only sees waves as created by other boaters.
                        >
                        > i am pretty comfortably reading the instant book (and new instant book) and start building. but I am wondering .. how does one flip the boat over to epoxy the inside? at 26' and probably a couple hundred pounds... i will be building outside (under temporary shed, with grass under foot). so i was thinking of dropping in some 6x6 posts and then beam across the top just incase i need a hand with a lift? just a random idea.
                        >
                        > my other question .. do you think a sneakeasy could pull a waterski ? i read that sneakeasy is max with a 30HP motor, but maybe this is enough?
                        >
                        > i'm slowly getting excited to finally build. good things come to those that wait!
                        >
                        > slloyd
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, stephensonhw@... wrote:
                        >> Phil,
                        >>
                        >> Do you mean it is not an instant boat because it is a New Instant Boat, as featured in Payson's second boatbuilding book? Because it is.
                        >>
                        >> I think a Diablo would be a lot quicker and easier to build than a Sneakeasy.
                        >>
                        >> Howard
                        >>
                        >> In a message dated Tue, 3 Jun 2003 4:24:45 PM AEST, Phil Smith<pbs@...> writes:
                        >>
                        >>> If you want Bolger's most seaworthy outboard boat I think it would be
                        >>> either Diablo or Diablo Grande. Phil has written of his own Diablo's
                        >>> seaworthiness in MAIB and Diablo's ability to handle bad weather and high
                        >>> seas. Unfortunately for us inexperienced boat builders, Diablo is not an
                        >>> "instant" boat.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
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