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Re: [bolger] Bolger's Sneakeasy

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  • a & a julian
    G day slloyd Hunt out a copy of Bolger s book Boats with an Open Mind (BWOAM). And make yourself very comfortable. Both variants of Sneakeasy are there.
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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      G'day slloyd

      Hunt out a copy of Bolger's book "Boats with an Open Mind"
      (BWOAM). And make yourself very comfortable.
      Both variants of Sneakeasy are there. Based on PB's text, and
      given the chop on your lake, the basic Sneakeasy would likely
      be a Bad Idea. You might just get away with the stepped version,
      but choosing a different boat would probably be wiser again.

      You might like to consider "Slicer", also in BWAOM . In the
      notes, PB states that it was designed "to cleave the chop elegantly"
      on a lake. Can't give you any idea on costs. My tastes run to
      smaller vessels, although I have been caught drooling over
      Birdwatcher. And Scooner. And Sneakeasy. And Bright Star.
      And...
      cheers
      Alan J.
      Sth.Aust.

      In a message dated Sat, 31 May 2003 5:21:00 PM AEST, <slloyd@...>
      writes:

      >Hello everyone,
      >
      >I am thinking of building a boat, for the first time. I have no
      >experience - but learn quickly ;)
      >I am really liking the Sneakeasy boat and was wondering if anyone
      >has built this model? I have found several web links around the net
      >that describe people's experience, but i do not see answers to these
      >questions:
      >
      >- how much, after all is said & done, does construction of this boat
      >cost?
      >- how easy is this model to build for a first timer?
      >- how does this boat perform in choppy water (i plan to use it on a
      >lake that sometimes sees 3 - 5 feet waves)
      >- how long does it take to build?
      >
      >can anyone recommend a place to purchase plans and/or a kit for this
      >boat? Canadian links would be appreciated
      >
      >thanks for your input
      >slloyd
    • David Ryan
      ... 3 to 5 foot chop isn t just big, it s huge. Any boat, regardless of haul style, would have to be ENORMOUS to move at planing speeds through seas that short
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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        >3 to 5 feet is a BIG chop.

        3 to 5 foot chop isn't just big, it's huge. Any boat, regardless of
        haul style, would have to be ENORMOUS to move at planing speeds
        through seas that short and big with any degree of comfort.

        Could you sneak a Sneakeasy through seas like that at low speed?
        Perhaps. But it's not going to be dry, easy or fun (well maybe that
        depends on your definition of fun); and the consequences of a mistake
        are not trivial.

        The easiest solution is build the Sneakeasy, either the flat or
        step-hulled version. Then you can enjoy her good looks and grace
        under pleasant conditions, and use it's high speed capacity to run
        for home at the first sign of weather closing in.

        YIBB,

        David
        --

        C.E.P.
        415 W.46th Street
        New York, New York 10036
        http://www.crumblingempire.com
        Mobile (646) 325-8325
        Office (212) 247-0296
      • Harry James
        I have been holding back on this one, David pretty well covers my thoughts. As far as cost goes, find out what all the materials cost the way your going to
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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          I have been holding back on this one, David pretty well covers my
          thoughts. As far as cost goes, find out what all the materials cost the
          way your going to build it, there are varying levels of materials that
          you can use. Account for every thing that you can think of and price
          those materials locally. Add 50% more if you think you did a good job,
          double it if you didn't and that might be what it costs. That is why
          nobody has given you a dollar amount, it is a big variable.

          Check out Fritz Funk's site at

          http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Sneakeasy/Sneakeasy.htm

          He might be able to tell you what it cost him.

          We get 70+ knot storms here and waves a lot bigger than 3-5 ft.
          Fritz doesn't go out in that.

          HJ

          David Ryan wrote:

          >>3 to 5 feet is a BIG chop.
          >>
          >>
          >
          >3 to 5 foot chop isn't just big, it's huge. Any boat, regardless of
          >haul style, would have to be ENORMOUS to move at planing speeds
          >through seas that short and big with any degree of comfort.
          >
          >Could you sneak a Sneakeasy through seas like that at low speed?
          >Perhaps. But it's not going to be dry, easy or fun (well maybe that
          >depends on your definition of fun); and the consequences of a mistake
          >are not trivial.
          >
          >The easiest solution is build the Sneakeasy, either the flat or
          >step-hulled version. Then you can enjoy her good looks and grace
          >under pleasant conditions, and use it's high speed capacity to run
          >for home at the first sign of weather closing in.
          >
          >YIBB,
          >
          >David
          >
          >
        • craig o'donnell
          ... Most - or all - boats I own are not boats for a 5 ft chop! I am sure the Sneakeasy could handle a 5 ft chop but you had best go very, very slowly. Sharpies
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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            >3. This is not a boat to take out in a 5 ft. chop. I'd reckon it
            >would be pretty uncomfortable in waves more 18 inches high and
            >dangerous once you got to 3 ft, possibly less. Either plan to stay
            >home when the weather is like that, or look for a completely
            >different design.

            Most - or all - boats I own are not boats for a 5 ft chop! I am sure
            the Sneakeasy could handle a 5 ft chop but you had best go very, very
            slowly.

            Sharpies are not unseaworthy boats, but power sharpies of this sort
            are not meant for bashing through 20-30mph winds and 5 ft chop (as in
            for example today on the Chesapeake). The windage would likely get
            you before the chop did.

            The chop issue is supposed to be addressed by the "box keel version"
            which Greg Carlson built. This boat will handle rougher ("rougher"
            being in quotes, nad not meaning 5 ft chop) waters at better speed...
            it's marginally harder to build but Greg seemed to have found it
            pretty straightforward.

            I've ridden out some 2-3 foot chop in an Oldshoe. Very wet! But I
            didn't feel like the boat was going to drown me, at least not by
            sinking. I've hit a couple 5 ft "rogue chop" waves in a Ranger 23.
            Really uncomfortable. I would not want to be out in that in anything.
            All of this nasty stuff is in the mouth of the Chester River on the
            Chesapeake where current and tide can be against a 20-some mile fetch
            out of the Northwest and a lumpy, shoaling bottom to boot.
            --
            Craig O'Donnell
            Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
            <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
            The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
            The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
            Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
            American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
            Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
            _________________________________

            -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
            -- Macintosh kinda guy
            Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
            _________________________________
            ---
            [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
          • Lincoln Ross
            I have had a couple of rides in a Sneakeasy, and it s a very nice boat, but I don t think it would be good in choppy water. That was the simple version, but 3
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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              I have had a couple of rides in a Sneakeasy, and it's a very nice boat,
              but I don't think it would be good in choppy water. That was the simple
              version, but 3 to 5 feet is a BIG chop. I'm not sure any planing
              outboard is going to be happy with that kind of chop. On smooth water
              it's very stable, elegant, and comfortable and moves along at a good
              clip on low power. You're not likely to go water skiing, though.

              Cost is going to depend very much on what kind of materials you use and
              on whether you want to use a small, used motor or a big new motor
              (though I don't think you can go very large on Sneakeasy). If I had
              bucks and a Sneakeasy I'd want a 4 stroke because they are cleaner and
              much quieter.

              You might consider building a really minimal boat first to see how you
              like building and to make your mistakes where they don't matter as much.
              Sneakeasy is simple, but it's a much bigger project than a dinghy or
              pirogue. Go look at:
              www.instantboats.com and
              http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jim/michalak.htm
              I also recommend the books by Payson (on the first site) and Michalak
              (on the second site) to give you an idea of what's involved. The Payson
              book is probably available in your library or by interlibrary loan. If
              your eventual goal is a Sneakeasy, I'd stick to the boats that use chine
              logs instead of "tack and tape" or "stitch and glue" construction. Also,
              for this first, minimal boat, go ahead and use cheap materials like
              exterior ply. A small boat can be a lot of fun, too. If you don't like
              rowing or paddling, you can use a trolling motor or something.
              (Outboards tend to weigh down the back and overpower the boat, though
              some of these designs are meant for a SMALL motor.)

              I don't know how long Sneakeasy takes to build, but I designed and built
              a really minimal dinghy in 60 hours or so. A lot of that was designing
              and shopping around for materials, or at least that's the way I
              remember. I'm not real fast with this kind of thing.

              I've never heard of a Sneakeasy kit.

              >In a message dated Sat, 31 May 2003 5:21:00 PM AEST, "ogarianoxman" <slloyd@...> writes:
              >
              >>Hello everyone,
              >>
              >>I am thinking of building a boat, for the first time. I have no
              >>experience - but learn quickly ;)
              >>I am really liking the Sneakeasy boat and was wondering if anyone
              >>has built this model? I have found several web links around the net
              >>that describe people's experience, but i do not see answers to these
              >>questions:
              >>
              >>- how much, after all is said & done, does construction of this boat
              >>cost?
              >>- how easy is this model to build for a first timer?
              >>- how does this boat perform in choppy water (i plan to use it on a
              >>lake that sometimes sees 3 - 5 feet waves)
              >>- how long does it take to build?
              >>
              >>can anyone recommend a place to purchase plans and/or a kit for this
              >>boat? Canadian links would be appreciated
              >>
              >>thanks for your input
              >>slloyd
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • philippe peltier
              3 to 5 feet is perhaps huge for pond boats captains, but it s very very common on large lakes and at sea.. ;-) I remember tempests on the Leman lake near
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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                3 to 5 feet is perhaps huge for pond boats captains, but it's very very
                common on large lakes and at sea.. ;-)
                I remember tempests on the Leman lake near Geneva which were worth those
                you meet at open sea...

                Anyway sneakeasy is all but what you need to navigate in conditions such
                as these.. unless you like to get wet to the bones or intend to use her
                as a wave piercer ;-)
                I remember Steve Bosquette gave his one up mainly because of this, after
                brainstorming for months on a way to build a deck that would allow him
                to stay dry.

                --
                Phil.

                -----Message d'origine-----
                De : David Ryan [mailto:david@...]
                Envoyé : Sunday, June 01, 2003 5:40 PM
                À : bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Objet : [bolger] Re: Bolger's Sneakeasy



                >3 to 5 feet is a BIG chop.

                3 to 5 foot chop isn't just big, it's huge. Any boat, regardless of
                haul style, would have to be ENORMOUS to move at planing speeds
                through seas that short and big with any degree of comfort.

                Could you sneak a Sneakeasy through seas like that at low speed?
                Perhaps. But it's not going to be dry, easy or fun (well maybe that
                depends on your definition of fun); and the consequences of a mistake
                are not trivial.

                The easiest solution is build the Sneakeasy, either the flat or
                step-hulled version. Then you can enjoy her good looks and grace
                under pleasant conditions, and use it's high speed capacity to run
                for home at the first sign of weather closing in.

                YIBB,

                David
                --

                C.E.P.
                415 W.46th Street
                New York, New York 10036
                http://www.crumblingempire.com
                Mobile (646) 325-8325
                Office (212) 247-0296


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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • craig o'donnell
                ... Cheasapeake s a pretty big pond, then. 3 feet is not uncommon but 5 feet takes a good steady 20 knot breeze for 12 to 24 hours (at a guess), certainly for
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 1, 2003
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                  >3 to 5 feet is perhaps huge for pond boats captains, but it's very very
                  >common on large lakes and at sea.. ;-)

                  Cheasapeake's a pretty big pond, then. 3 feet is not uncommon but 5
                  feet takes a good steady 20 knot breeze for 12 to 24 hours (at a
                  guess), certainly for the middle and upper Bay. I suppose there is a
                  government site somewhere with average wave heights on the Chesapeake
                  Bay. I think I'll go see if I can find one.

                  Also, there are places where the tides and currents build up steeper,
                  taller waves so it's hard to generalize over the whole Bay. I have
                  never sailed around the mouth of the Potomac River but that is a
                  notorious place for getting beat around in the bobble.

                  And the tides vary a lot, because the Bay is so long. Some places
                  have one high tide a day, some two, and Annapolis has almost no tide
                  as there the old ebb and new flow overlap and tend to cancel.
                  --
                  Craig O'Donnell
                  Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                  <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                  The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                  The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                  Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                  American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                  Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                  _________________________________

                  -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                  -- Macintosh kinda guy
                  Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                  _________________________________
                  ---
                  [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
                • stephensonhw@aol.com
                  Phil, Do you mean it is not an instant boat because it is a New Instant Boat, as featured in Payson s second boatbuilding book? Because it is. I think a Diablo
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 3, 2003
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                    Phil,

                    Do you mean it is not an instant boat because it is a New Instant Boat, as featured in Payson's second boatbuilding book? Because it is.

                    I think a Diablo would be a lot quicker and easier to build than a Sneakeasy.

                    Howard

                    In a message dated Tue, 3 Jun 2003 4:24:45 PM AEST, Phil Smith <pbs@...> writes:

                    >If you want Bolger's most seaworthy outboard boat I think it would be
                    >either Diablo or Diablo Grande. Phil has written of his own Diablo's
                    >seaworthiness in MAIB and Diablo's ability to handle bad weather and high
                    >seas. Unfortunately for us inexperienced boat builders, Diablo is not an
                    >"instant" boat.
                  • slloyd
                    wow.. has it only been 9 years? =D I haven t built this boat yet, but i never forgot about it. i am getting closer to it being a good time in my life to
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 1, 2012
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                      wow.. has it only been 9 years? =D

                      I haven't built this boat yet, but i never forgot about it. i am getting closer to it being a good time in my life to build. now have regular access to an inland lake which only sees waves as created by other boaters.

                      i am pretty comfortably reading the instant book (and new instant book) and start building. but I am wondering .. how does one flip the boat over to epoxy the inside? at 26' and probably a couple hundred pounds... i will be building outside (under temporary shed, with grass under foot). so i was thinking of dropping in some 6x6 posts and then beam across the top just incase i need a hand with a lift? just a random idea.

                      my other question .. do you think a sneakeasy could pull a waterski ? i read that sneakeasy is max with a 30HP motor, but maybe this is enough?

                      i'm slowly getting excited to finally build. good things come to those that wait!

                      slloyd




                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, stephensonhw@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Phil,
                      >
                      > Do you mean it is not an instant boat because it is a New Instant Boat, as featured in Payson's second boatbuilding book? Because it is.
                      >
                      > I think a Diablo would be a lot quicker and easier to build than a Sneakeasy.
                      >
                      > Howard
                      >
                      > In a message dated Tue, 3 Jun 2003 4:24:45 PM AEST, Phil Smith <pbs@...> writes:
                      >
                      > >If you want Bolger's most seaworthy outboard boat I think it would be
                      > >either Diablo or Diablo Grande. Phil has written of his own Diablo's
                      > >seaworthiness in MAIB and Diablo's ability to handle bad weather and high
                      > >seas. Unfortunately for us inexperienced boat builders, Diablo is not an
                      > >"instant" boat.
                      >
                    • Maximo
                      The flip is easy :) for a sneakeasy you need about 5 friends, and lots of food and drinks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyIa2fs07WU Maximo
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 1, 2012
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                        The flip is easy :)
                        for a sneakeasy you need about 5 friends, and lots of food and drinks
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyIa2fs07WU
                        Maximo
                      • Harry James
                        I lived two doors down from Fritz Funk, helped with the launching of his Sneakeasy, have made several trips in it before he moved it to WI. You are not going
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 2, 2012
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                          I lived two doors down from Fritz Funk, helped with the launching of his
                          Sneakeasy, have made several trips in it before he moved it to WI. You
                          are not going to tow skiers with it. 30 HP is overkill, I would put an
                          18 hp max. I believe Fritz uses a 15 HP and we have cruised it with 4
                          on board no problem. It is an amazing boat, no transition to plane it
                          just rises up out of the water level. Chop doesn't bother it. I would
                          rate the hull as easier to build than a Diablo. I personally think it is
                          one of Bolger's most brilliant designs. It never ceases to amaze me how
                          many people like it and then want to modify the design.

                          HJ

                          On 7/1/2012 8:35 AM, slloyd wrote:
                          > wow.. has it only been 9 years? =D
                          >
                          > I haven't built this boat yet, but i never forgot about it. i am getting closer to it being a good time in my life to build. now have regular access to an inland lake which only sees waves as created by other boaters.
                          >
                          > i am pretty comfortably reading the instant book (and new instant book) and start building. but I am wondering .. how does one flip the boat over to epoxy the inside? at 26' and probably a couple hundred pounds... i will be building outside (under temporary shed, with grass under foot). so i was thinking of dropping in some 6x6 posts and then beam across the top just incase i need a hand with a lift? just a random idea.
                          >
                          > my other question .. do you think a sneakeasy could pull a waterski ? i read that sneakeasy is max with a 30HP motor, but maybe this is enough?
                          >
                          > i'm slowly getting excited to finally build. good things come to those that wait!
                          >
                          > slloyd
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, stephensonhw@... wrote:
                          >> Phil,
                          >>
                          >> Do you mean it is not an instant boat because it is a New Instant Boat, as featured in Payson's second boatbuilding book? Because it is.
                          >>
                          >> I think a Diablo would be a lot quicker and easier to build than a Sneakeasy.
                          >>
                          >> Howard
                          >>
                          >> In a message dated Tue, 3 Jun 2003 4:24:45 PM AEST, Phil Smith<pbs@...> writes:
                          >>
                          >>> If you want Bolger's most seaworthy outboard boat I think it would be
                          >>> either Diablo or Diablo Grande. Phil has written of his own Diablo's
                          >>> seaworthiness in MAIB and Diablo's ability to handle bad weather and high
                          >>> seas. Unfortunately for us inexperienced boat builders, Diablo is not an
                          >>> "instant" boat.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
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                          > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
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