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Sheet-ply canoe yawl?

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  • s_paskey <s_paskey@yahoo.com>
    I ve recently taken an interest in canoe yawls of varying sizes, ranging from Wm Garden s Eel and Redmond s Elver up to Albert Strange s Wenda. PCB, of
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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      I've recently taken an interest in canoe yawls of varying sizes,
      ranging from Wm Garden's Eel and Redmond's Elver up to Albert
      Strange's Wenda. PCB, of course, has designed several canoe yawls,
      including Quickstep, Windfola, and the Nord Coaster.

      It occurs to me that one might build a lovely sheet-ply canoe yawl by
      using a hull roughly the shape of Sweet Pea (i.e. flat bottom and
      double-chined sides), but larger. However, I don't know of any true
      cruising-size canoe yawl designed for sheet-ply construction.
      (Michael Storer's "kamikaze" canoe yawl Beth is not what I had in
      mind.)

      Various folks here have suggested rigging Windsprint or Birdwatcher
      as a yawl, but I really like the looks of the Sweet Pea shape.
      Anyone know of such a design, by PCB or anyone else?

      Thanks!
    • pvanderwaart <pvanderw@optonline.net>
      ... In William Garden s Yacht Designs II, there is a 24 6 Canoe Ketch that is multi-chine and planked with 1/2 ply. It is an open daysailer, which may or
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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        > Anyone know of such a design, by PCB or anyone else?

        In William Garden's Yacht Designs II, there is a 24' 6" Canoe Ketch
        that is multi-chine and planked with 1/2" ply. It is an open
        daysailer, which may or may not be what you want.

        You want to be familiar with Paul Gartside's boats, not because they
        are what you want, but because they feed the fire:
        http://www.gartsideboats.com/index.html

        If you really do want an open boat, then check out John Welsford's 6
        meter whaler. It's more lap than panel-planked but you can do it.
        http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jw/index.htm

        Ted Brewer has a design (not on his web site; I saw it in a book)for
        a double ender about 24 feet with a ply bottom and strip-planked
        sides. In addition, his Grand Banks 22 is nearly a double-ended dory,
        but I think it's a little too plain for your taste.

        Bolger did respond to a request for a bone simple, ply, canoe yawl as
        part of his Small Boat Journal cartoon series. It looked pretty
        unlikely to me, but the score is about 700 to 0 as far as the ratio
        of his designs to mine, so what do I know. As far as I know, nothing
        ever came of it.

        Peter
      • craig o'donnell
        ... Elver by Steve Redmond. -- Craig O Donnell Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats The Proa FAQ
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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          >Various folks here have suggested rigging Windsprint or Birdwatcher
          >as a yawl, but I really like the looks of the Sweet Pea shape.
          >Anyone know of such a design, by PCB or anyone else?


          Elver by Steve Redmond.
          --
          Craig O'Donnell
          Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
          <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
          The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
          The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
          Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
          American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
          Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
          _________________________________

          -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
          -- Macintosh kinda guy
          Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
          _________________________________
          ---
          [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
        • craig o'donnell
          ... Peter, do you happen to have that cartoon? I d be very interested in seeing it. -- Craig O Donnell Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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            >Bolger did respond to a request for a bone simple, ply, canoe yawl as
            >part of his Small Boat Journal cartoon series. It looked pretty
            >unlikely to me, but the score is about 700 to 0 as far as the ratio
            >of his designs to mine, so what do I know. As far as I know, nothing
            >ever came of it.
            >
            >Peter

            Peter, do you happen to have that cartoon? I'd be very interested in seeing it.
            --
            Craig O'Donnell
            Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
            <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
            The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
            The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
            Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
            American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
            Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
            _________________________________

            -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
            -- Macintosh kinda guy
            Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
            _________________________________
            ---
            [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
          • pvanderwaart <pvanderw@optonline.net>
            ... in seeing it. I just typed all this once, but Yahoo skipped to the screen to validate my login and seemed to have swallowed it. If you end up seeing it
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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              > Peter, do you happen to have that cartoon? I'd be very interested
              in seeing it.

              I just typed all this once, but Yahoo skipped to the screen to
              validate my login and seemed to have swallowed it. If you end up
              seeing it twice, that's less than the annoyance to me of typing twice.

              The things I do you this group: rummaging through old magazines and
              dealing with a cranky scanner. Since the scans are big, I put them on
              my geocities site.

              http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pcb_py1.JPG
              http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pcb_py2.JPG
              http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pcb_py3.JPG

              In the database on this site, there is an entry for #433 21'x6' yawl.
              I don't know anything else about it; perhaps it's the same.

              I am also reminded that Elver has curved sides, i.e. is strip
              planked, and Centennial II is a double-ended yawl, though not as
              pretty as what you are looking for.

              Peter
            • pvanderwaart <pvanderw@optonline.net>
              ... http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pcb_py4.JPG Oops, I missed the last column of text on the first go-round. - Peter
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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              • craig o'donnell
                ... I can not recall how the Elver was built other than a flat bottom - sailed on one about 3 years ago. It s a nice boat. Selway Fisher has some plywood canoe
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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                  >
                  >I am also reminded that Elver has curved sides, i.e. is strip
                  >planked, and Centennial II is a double-ended yawl, though not as
                  >pretty as what you are looking for.

                  I can not recall how the Elver was built other than a flat bottom -
                  sailed on one about 3 years ago. It's a nice boat.

                  Selway Fisher has some plywood canoe yawl designs of varying complexity, too.
                  --
                  Craig O'Donnell
                  Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                  <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                  The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                  The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                  Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                  American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                  Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                  _________________________________

                  -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                  -- Macintosh kinda guy
                  Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                  _________________________________
                  ---
                  [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
                • craig o'donnell
                  ... Say, Peter, thanks much. I only saw one message. Yahoo does sometimes do odd things. -- Craig O Donnell Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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                    >> http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pcb_py1.JPG
                    >> http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pcb_py2.JPG
                    >> http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pcb_py3.JPG
                    >
                    >http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/pcb_py4.JPG
                    >
                    >Oops, I missed the last column of text on the first go-round. - Peter

                    Say, Peter, thanks much. I only saw one message. Yahoo does sometimes
                    do odd things.
                    --
                    Craig O'Donnell
                    Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                    <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                    The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                    The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                    Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                    American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                    Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                    _________________________________

                    -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                    -- Macintosh kinda guy
                    Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                    _________________________________
                    ---
                    [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
                  • Harry James
                    For those who have been looking for Redond s designs, either Elver or Whisp he has reappeared from the missing and has a web site www.sredmond.com I think it
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 27, 2003
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                      For those who have been looking for Redond's designs, either Elver or Whisp
                      he has reappeared from the missing and has a web site

                      www.sredmond.com

                      I think it was mentioned here a short while back.

                      HJ


                      > >I am also reminded that Elver has curved sides, i.e. is strip
                      > >planked, and Centennial II is a double-ended yawl, though not as
                      > >pretty as what you are looking for.
                      >
                      > I can not recall how the Elver was built other than a flat bottom -
                      > sailed on one about 3 years ago. It's a nice boat.
                      >
                      > Selway Fisher has some plywood canoe yawl designs of varying complexity,
                      > too.
                    • Hannes
                      try paul fisher - Selway Fisher design has a nice 22 canoe yawl, Kittiwake, stich&glue with 6 planks per side, plus several similar designs. his catalog is
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 28, 2003
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                        try paul fisher - Selway Fisher design has a nice 22' canoe yawl,
                        Kittiwake, stich&glue with 6 planks per side, plus several similar
                        designs.

                        his catalog is full of small, trad looking s&g boats and canoes,
                        quite interesting.

                        looking at his catalog from 95 does not show a website, but I am
                        sure he has one now.
                        his postal adress:
                        15 King St
                        Melksham
                        Wilts SN126HB
                        GB

                        Phone 0225 705074

                        (back in 95, mind you)

                        if you cant find him on the net i could scan kittwake and post it to
                        you - contact me off group (I have just taken myself off for some
                        time)

                        hannes
                      • s_paskey <s_paskey@yahoo.com>
                        Peter: Thanks so much for digging that up and scanning it in. Very nice -- the deep V is a surprise, but she s otherwise exactly along the lines that I was
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 28, 2003
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                          Peter: Thanks so much for digging that up and scanning it in. Very
                          nice -- the deep "V" is a surprise, but she's otherwise exactly along
                          the lines that I was thinking.

                          Incidentally, you're right about the sides of ELVER being
                          strip-planked. The plans call for 3/4 inch square stock. The bottom
                          is plywood with a plank keel -- dead flat, with no rocker -- and she's
                          built right-side up, with the bottom as a base. In shape and spirit
                          she's very much like DOVEKIE, but with a cabin and yawl rig.

                          Though I very much like the PCB cartoon, ELVER would have the
                          advantage of extreme shallow draft, and she's easily beached.

                          Steve

                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart <pvanderw@o...>" <
                          pvanderw@o...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The things I do you this group: rummaging through old magazines and
                          > dealing with a cranky scanner. Since the scans are big, I put them
                          on
                          > my geocities site.
                        • s_paskey <s_paskey@yahoo.com>
                          Thanks for the suggestion. Paul does have a web-site, at www.selway-fisher.com
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 28, 2003
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                            Thanks for the suggestion.
                            Paul does have a web-site, at www.selway-fisher.com

                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Hannes" <h.kuehtreiber@t...> wrote:
                            > try paul fisher - Selway Fisher design has a nice 22' canoe yawl,
                            > Kittiwake, stich&glue with 6 planks per side, plus several similar
                            > designs.
                          • pvanderwaart <pvanderw@optonline.net>
                            ... The Elver construction is similar in concept to the Brewer boat I mentioned, which would turn out as a home-built Nimble 24, more or less. I have never
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 28, 2003
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                              > Incidentally, you're right about the sides of ELVER being
                              > strip-planked.

                              The Elver construction is similar in concept to the Brewer boat I
                              mentioned, which would turn out as a home-built Nimble 24, more or
                              less. I have never been a fan of the Elver; it seems too cute to get
                              out of its own way to me. Better you should listen to the satisified
                              former owners than to me, I guess.

                              I find it ironic that Cyrus Hamlin, indicated as the codifier of
                              strip planking by PCB, liked to design boats with strip planked
                              bottoms and ply topsides, but there are probably more designs with
                              the subtle shape in the topsides where it looks pretty and doesn't
                              greatly affect performance, and a flat ply bottom.

                              If you want the flat bottom and are willing to contemplate the strip
                              planking, there are other Bolger boats that can be considered. And
                              even more for cold molding. Take a look in the database here.

                              Peter
                            • pvanderwaart <pvanderw@optonline.net>
                              By the by, you want to check out the boats of Iain Oughtred as well. He has several of the general type: http://www.imagic.demon.co.uk/openboat/ness.html
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 28, 2003
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                                By the by, you want to check out the boats of Iain Oughtred as well.
                                He has several of the general type:

                                http://www.imagic.demon.co.uk/openboat/ness.html
                                http://www.duckflatwoodenboats.com/dfwbphp/designINDEX.php?ID=1

                                If anyone knows a better Oughtred site, please let us know.

                                I would note that many feel that glued, ply, lap construction is
                                great for amateurs, however daunting it seems to me. Of course, the
                                details of the construction count for a lot.

                                Peter
                              • craig o'donnell
                                ... This would seem to resemble a double ender with the chine line of what Chapelle and others have called a Northern Skipjack - though you see the same
                                Message 15 of 16 , Feb 28, 2003
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                                  >Thanks so much for digging that up and scanning it in. Very
                                  >nice -- the deep "V" is a surprise, but she's otherwise exactly along
                                  >the lines that I was thinking.

                                  This would seem to resemble a double ender with the chine line of
                                  what Chapelle and others have called a "Northern Skipjack" - though
                                  you see the same style in old pix of Florida.
                                  --
                                  Craig O'Donnell
                                  Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
                                  <http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
                                  The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
                                  The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
                                  Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
                                  American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
                                  Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
                                  _________________________________

                                  -- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
                                  -- Macintosh kinda guy
                                  Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
                                  _________________________________
                                  ---
                                  [This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
                                • pvanderwaart <pvanderw@optonline.net>
                                  ... The hull shape is not so very different from the Buehler Emily and Juno, I guess, but in the small size, with half the hull volume devoted to water
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Mar 1, 2003
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                                    > This would seem to resemble a double ender with the chine line of
                                    > what Chapelle and others have called a "Northern Skipjack" - though
                                    > you see the same style in old pix of Florida.

                                    The hull shape is not so very different from the Buehler Emily and
                                    Juno, I guess, but in the small size, with half the hull volume
                                    devoted to water ballast, it doesn't seem like a practical
                                    proposition to me.

                                    Peter
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