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The Ship

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  • teakdeck@aol.com
    Recently watched on the History Channel a documentary called The Ship. A replica of the boat Captain Cook sailed around in discovering much of the world
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 23, 2002
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      Recently watched on the History Channel a documentary called "The Ship." A
      replica of the boat Captain Cook sailed around in discovering much of the
      world previously unknown to Europeans.

      The ship was fantastic and the crew of people were very interesting as they
      emulated conditions as they were on the original voyage. They were at sea on
      September 11 of last year so they only heard of the terrible world events by
      announcement of the captain.

      I was amazed as the amateur crew climbed aloft to work the canvas. I was glad
      to see once they were up there they tied off.

      The ship seemed to really move with some speed in a decent breeze. It
      appeared from the show they never hit a gale or even a storm. They did have
      six miserable days of doldrums.

      There were some underwater shots of the boat and I was surprised at the
      formation of the keel, or really the lack of one. More like a keelson if
      that's the right term. The ballast must just sit in the bilge.

      Anyone else see the show? Comments on how that ship was designed and how well
      it sails? Do you think it had an engine? I didn't see any prop.

      Really makes one aspire to build a big wooden boat and sail the open seas!

      Mike Masten
    • Richard Spelling
      I agree, quite an interesting show. Don t guess they did to much windward work with that shallow keel and square rig. According to the show, it had an
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 23, 2002
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        I agree, quite an interesting show.

        Don't guess they did to much windward work with that shallow keel and square
        rig.

        According to the show, it had an "emergency" engine and two 4ft props. The
        last shot in the show was the crew on the rigging, no sails up, and the ship
        plowing through the ocean.

        I like the "realtively shallow draft" the boat had, 11 feet!

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <teakdeck@...>
        To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:20 AM
        Subject: [bolger] The Ship


        >
        > Anyone else see the show? Comments on how that ship was designed and how
        well
        > it sails? Do you think it had an engine? I didn't see any prop.
        >
        > Really makes one aspire to build a big wooden boat and sail the open seas!
        >
        > Mike Masten
        >
      • Mark A.
        More at http://www.barkendeavour.com.au/
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 23, 2002
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          More at
          http://www.barkendeavour.com.au/

          teakdeck@... wrote:
          >
          > Recently watched on the History Channel a documentary called "The Ship." A
          > replica of the boat Captain Cook sailed around in discovering much of the
          > world previously unknown to Europeans.
        • oneillparker
          I saw the first half or so of the documentary. I also took a tour of the modern Endeavor in the port of Sacramento a couple of years back. I remember the tween
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 23, 2002
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            I saw the first half or so of the documentary. I also took a tour of
            the modern Endeavor in the port of Sacramento a couple of years back.
            I remember the tween deck, which I didn't see in the film. It was
            about 3' high. My four year old could walk upright, the rest of us
            had to crawl around. Several of the ships officers and warrent
            officers had their quaters/workstations there, behind 3' high doors.
            Somewhere I have some photos.

            In the film I was impressed that they exclusively used (so they
            claimed) contemporary charts and navigation methods, including lunar
            sights, etc.

            As a kid I used to climb towers for a living--I loved it. It could
            get interesting in a breeze, especially before the guy wires were all
            in place and set up--and that was on dry land.... It has to be a real
            kick in the pants going up those masts and hanging off yardarms, at
            sea, with flogging topsails banging into your head!

            John O'Neill

            --- In bolger@y..., teakdeck@a... wrote:
            > Recently watched on the History Channel a documentary called "The
            Ship." A
            > replica of the boat Captain Cook sailed around in discovering much
            of the
            > world previously unknown to Europeans.
            >
          • Stuart Crawford
            If it s the Australian replica of Endeavor, I had a look around it when it was in Nelson NZ a couple of years ago. Apart from using different woods, having an
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 23, 2002
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              If it's the Australian replica of Endeavor, I had a look around it when it
              was in Nelson NZ a couple of years ago. Apart from using different woods,
              having an engine and using lead for ballast, it is a very realistic replica.
              They even have some things like books, that came off the original Endeavor.

              They about twenty permanent crew, with the rest being volunteers who do
              stints.

              The Endeavor was designed and used as a coal barge in the North Sea before
              being handed over to Captain Cook, hence the shape.

              Did the program show that when the crew weren't on watch, that they were
              confined in a cabin with about four foot headroom and were given a ration of
              one gallon of beer per day?

              Stuart

              on 24/10/02 12:20 AM, teakdeck@... at teakdeck@... wrote:

              > Recently watched on the History Channel a documentary called "The Ship." A
              > replica of the boat Captain Cook sailed around in discovering much of the
              > world previously unknown to Europeans.
              >
              > The ship was fantastic and the crew of people were very interesting as they
              > emulated conditions as they were on the original voyage. They were at sea on
              > September 11 of last year so they only heard of the terrible world events by
              > announcement of the captain.
              >
              > I was amazed as the amateur crew climbed aloft to work the canvas. I was glad
              > to see once they were up there they tied off.
              >
              > The ship seemed to really move with some speed in a decent breeze. It
              > appeared from the show they never hit a gale or even a storm. They did have
              > six miserable days of doldrums.
              >
              > There were some underwater shots of the boat and I was surprised at the
              > formation of the keel, or really the lack of one. More like a keelson if
              > that's the right term. The ballast must just sit in the bilge.
              >
              > Anyone else see the show? Comments on how that ship was designed and how well
              > it sails? Do you think it had an engine? I didn't see any prop.
              >
              > Really makes one aspire to build a big wooden boat and sail the open seas!
              >
              > Mike Masten
            • Stuart Crawford
              The Endeavor could only sail in a range of about 160 degrees, in other words it couldn t even sail straight across the wind. It had to be at least partly down
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 23, 2002
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                The Endeavor could only sail in a range of about 160 degrees, in other words
                it couldn't even sail straight across the wind. It had to be at least partly
                down wind or not at all.

                Stuart

                on 24/10/02 3:05 AM, Richard Spelling at richard@... wrote:

                > I agree, quite an interesting show.
                >
                > Don't guess they did to much windward work with that shallow keel and square
                > rig.
                >
                > According to the show, it had an "emergency" engine and two 4ft props. The
                > last shot in the show was the crew on the rigging, no sails up, and the ship
                > plowing through the ocean.
                >
                > I like the "realtively shallow draft" the boat had, 11 feet!
                >
              • pauldayau
                ... when it ... woods, ... replica. ... Endeavor. ... who do ... before ... were ... ration of ... It is pretty typical of life that the Endeavour Replica was
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 24, 2002
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                  --- In bolger@y..., Stuart Crawford <scrawford@p...> wrote:
                  > If it's the Australian replica of Endeavor, I had a look around it
                  when it
                  > was in Nelson NZ a couple of years ago. Apart from using different
                  woods,
                  > having an engine and using lead for ballast, it is a very realistic
                  replica.
                  > They even have some things like books, that came off the original
                  Endeavor.
                  >
                  > They about twenty permanent crew, with the rest being volunteers
                  who do
                  > stints.
                  >
                  > The Endeavor was designed and used as a coal barge in the North Sea
                  before
                  > being handed over to Captain Cook, hence the shape.
                  >
                  > Did the program show that when the crew weren't on watch, that they
                  were
                  > confined in a cabin with about four foot headroom and were given a
                  ration of
                  > one gallon of beer per day?
                  >
                  > Stuart
                  >
                  > on
                  It is pretty typical of life that the Endeavour Replica was built
                  600kms from here then cleared off to sail the world the day before i
                  got totown.
                  Now eveerybody has seen the ship except the locals.
                  Mind you I ve got a little offcut from the wood pile left over that
                  I put int my own boat.
                  paul
                • Bruce Fountain
                  ... Yeah, I have never seen it and it was built 5km from where I live. I was working in Sydney when it was launched. I believe that originally it was going to
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 24, 2002
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                    On Thursday 24 October 2002 20:14, pauldayau wrote:
                    > It is pretty typical of life that the Endeavour Replica was built
                    > 600kms from here then cleared off to sail the world the day before i
                    > got totown.
                    > Now eveerybody has seen the ship except the locals.

                    Yeah, I have never seen it and it was built 5km from where I
                    live. I was working in Sydney when it was launched.

                    I believe that originally it was going to be a land-based museum.
                    I am glad that they decided to launch it, even if it does spend
                    most of its time on the other side of the world.

                    --
                    Bruce Fountain (fountainb@...)
                    Senior Software Engineer
                    Union Switch and Signal Pty Ltd
                    Perth Western Australia
                    tel: +618 9256 0083
                  • jhkohnen@boat-links.com
                    I visited the Aussie Endeavour when it stopped at Coos Bay. The crew s part of the tween decks actually had full headroom. When I commented on this, the tour
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 24, 2002
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                      I visited the Aussie Endeavour when it stopped at Coos Bay. The crew's part
                      of the 'tween decks actually had full headroom. When I commented on this,
                      the tour guide said that when the ship was being converted from a collier
                      Cook specified that the deck be installed low enough to give the men some
                      room. Further aft the deck of the aft cabin protrudes into the 'tween decks,
                      dropping the headroom under the beams to about 3' (that makes about 4'
                      between them), that's where the marines berthed, between the crew and the
                      officers. As you go aft, the deck of the aft cabin rises, and when you get
                      into officer country there may be 4' under the beams. The little cabins with
                      their short doors are kind of cute, if you like doll houses. <g>

                      Cook also fed them lots of sauerkraut. He didn't have the problems with
                      scurvy that explorers just a few years earlier had.

                      On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:25:10 +1300, Stuart wrote:
                      > ...
                      > Did the program show that when the crew weren't on watch, that they were
                      > confined in a cabin with about four foot headroom and were given a ration
                      of
                      > one gallon of beer per day?

                      --
                      John <jkohnen@...>
                      http://www.boat-links.com/
                      Missionaries, my Dear! Don't you realize that missionaries are the
                      divinely
                      provided food for destitute cannibals? Whenever they are on the brink of
                      starvation, Heaven in its infinite mercy send them a nice plump
                      missionary.
                      <Oscar Wilde>
                    • Stuart Crawford
                      I stand corrected, I do recall the crews area having more headroom now that you mention it. Wasn t the galley at the forward end of the crews area? Stuart on
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 25, 2002
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                        I stand corrected, I do recall the crews area having more headroom now that
                        you mention it. Wasn't the galley at the forward end of the crews area?

                        Stuart

                        on 25/10/02 7:00 PM, jhkohnen@... at jhkohnen@...
                        wrote:

                        > I visited the Aussie Endeavour when it stopped at Coos Bay. The crew's part
                        > of the 'tween decks actually had full headroom. When I commented on this,
                        > the tour guide said that when the ship was being converted from a collier
                        > Cook specified that the deck be installed low enough to give the men some
                        > room. Further aft the deck of the aft cabin protrudes into the 'tween decks,
                        > dropping the headroom under the beams to about 3' (that makes about 4'
                        > between them), that's where the marines berthed, between the crew and the
                        > officers. As you go aft, the deck of the aft cabin rises, and when you get
                        > into officer country there may be 4' under the beams. The little cabins with
                        > their short doors are kind of cute, if you like doll houses. <g>
                        >
                        > Cook also fed them lots of sauerkraut. He didn't have the problems with
                        > scurvy that explorers just a few years earlier had.
                      • wmrpage@aol.com
                        In a message dated 10/25/02 1:31:17 AM Central Daylight Time, ... No he didn t, but the sauerkraut had nothing to do with it, his conviction and contemporary
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 25, 2002
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                          In a message dated 10/25/02 1:31:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
                          jhkohnen@... writes:

                          > Cook also fed them lots of sauerkraut. He didn't have the problems with
                          > scurvy that explorers just a few years earlier had.
                          >

                          No he didn't, but the sauerkraut had nothing to do with it, his conviction
                          and contemporary mythology notwithstanding. It is generally agreed that Cook
                          went to great pains to procure fresh foods at every opportunity and took just
                          as great pains to see that his crew ate them. (This is why the sauerkraut
                          tale is such an iconic annectdote.)

                          I read a highly entertaining and, I think, authoritative piece on the subject
                          some time ago. (Sorry, can't recall the author's name.) The author related
                          that sauerkraut is not an effective anti-scorbotic. He calculated the amount
                          that a person would need to consume daily to get a RDA dose of Vitamin C.
                          I've forgotten the amount, but it was manifestly impossible for a human to
                          consume enough sauerkraut, even if consuming the stuff all waking hours, to
                          get the necessary dosage.

                          Scruvy remained a scourge on long-distance voyages long after Cook's day. The
                          fabled lime juice of the British Royal Navy was likewise ineffective. The
                          anti-scorbotic properties of fresh lemon juice having been demonstrated in
                          remarkably modern type clinical trial which resulted in the deaths of some of
                          the subjects - a commentary on medical ethics and the low value placed on
                          sailor's lives in the period - the Navy adopted lime juice, a much poorer
                          source of vitamin C than lemon juice, following effective lobbying by
                          colonial planters who, for some reason, grew limes instead of lemons. The
                          Navy then adopted an entrepeneur's method of concentrating the lime juice for
                          preservation by boiling it into a concentrate. The heat of boiling destroyed
                          almost all of the vitamin C.

                          The author concluded that most of decline in the incidence of scurvy prior to
                          the 20th century was the result of faster passages, with some assistance from
                          improving working class diets on land. Sailors were less likely to be in a
                          pre-scorbotic condition when they joined their ships and spent comparatively
                          less time eating preserved rations. Scurvy continued to be a problem on
                          voyages of long duration - e.g. arctic expeditions - however.

                          The same author had an entertaining piece on the nutritional importance of
                          alcohol in the days of sail. By his calculations, typical rations provided an
                          indequate amount of calories to support demanding physical labor, especially
                          in cold latitudes and taking into account the poor clothing that seamen wore.
                          Alcohol, a concentrated source of non-perishable calories, was needed to make
                          up the dietary deficiency!

                          All in all, for the age of sail, the lot of the crew was such that Dr.
                          Johnson's (was it Johnson?) famous observation that no one would go to sea
                          who could contrive to go to jail is only slightly far-fetched. (Jails of the
                          period were notoriously unsanitary and unhealthful, too.) (The added jibe a
                          better quality of companions was to be found in goal than at sea was, I'm
                          sure, an unwarranted, not to mention an ungrateful, slander against seamen by
                          a landsman whose security and prosperity was in large measure due to the
                          labors of those unfortunates.)

                          Ciao for Niao,
                          Bill in MN


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • jhkohnen@boat-links.com
                          Yes, it was. IIRC, the Bosun and carpenter had their quarters and lockers forward of that. ... -- John http://www.boat-links.com/ Many
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 25, 2002
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                            Yes, it was. IIRC, the Bosun and carpenter had their quarters and lockers
                            forward of that.

                            On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:20:35 +1300, Stuart wrote:
                            > I stand corrected, I do recall the crews area having more headroom now that
                            > you mention it. Wasn't the galley at the forward end of the crews area?

                            --
                            John <jkohnen@...>
                            http://www.boat-links.com/
                            Many a man has fallen in love with a girl in light so dim
                            he would not have chosen a suit by it. <Maurice Chevalier>
                          • Tom Etherington
                            I sailed Endeavour when she sailed from Philadelphia to New York. Yes it is a kick to climb the rigging, especially when you find out about the futtock
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
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                              I sailed Endeavour when she sailed from Philadelphia to New York.
                              Yes it is a kick to climb the rigging, especially when you find out
                              about the futtock shrouds. They are the shrouds that go from the
                              fighting platform to the other shrouds. They are farther out from
                              the center of the boat at the top than at the bottom and as you climb
                              them you are essentially on the underside of the shrouds, hanging
                              on. Let go and you drop straight down.

                              The books in the great cabin are fakes. They are only wooden models
                              of what were originally on the ship.

                              Her flat bottom was why they chose her. The thought was she could be
                              hauled out on a beach for repair. In fact, she had to be hauled out
                              and repaired after they hit the Great Barrier Reef, so it was a good
                              thing she had the flat bottom.

                              She won't be back to the US. Some cockamamie Coast Guard bureaucrat
                              in California found a law that says foreign ships can't carry paying
                              passengers between ports in the US. She pays for her trips by doing
                              just that. Write your congressman.

                              All in all, sailing her was a dream come true.

                              Tom Etherington
                            • Stuart Crawford
                              Could you tell us about her handling and sailing abilities? Stuart
                              Message 14 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
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                                Could you tell us about her handling and sailing abilities?

                                Stuart

                                on 2/11/02 9:28 AM, Tom Etherington at tetherin@... wrote:

                                > I sailed Endeavour when she sailed from Philadelphia to New York.
                                > Yes it is a kick to climb the rigging, especially when you find out
                                > about the futtock shrouds. They are the shrouds that go from the
                                > fighting platform to the other shrouds. They are farther out from
                                > the center of the boat at the top than at the bottom and as you climb
                                > them you are essentially on the underside of the shrouds, hanging
                                > on. Let go and you drop straight down.
                                >
                                > The books in the great cabin are fakes. They are only wooden models
                                > of what were originally on the ship.
                                >
                                > Her flat bottom was why they chose her. The thought was she could be
                                > hauled out on a beach for repair. In fact, she had to be hauled out
                                > and repaired after they hit the Great Barrier Reef, so it was a good
                                > thing she had the flat bottom.
                                >
                                > She won't be back to the US. Some cockamamie Coast Guard bureaucrat
                                > in California found a law that says foreign ships can't carry paying
                                > passengers between ports in the US. She pays for her trips by doing
                                > just that. Write your congressman.
                                >
                                > All in all, sailing her was a dream come true.
                                >
                                > Tom Etherington
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