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AS 29 -navigator???

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  • qyid
    Hello everyone, It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec ed as a coastal cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design to
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 3, 2002
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      Hello everyone,

      It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a coastal
      cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
      to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?

      I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
      message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be greatly
      apreciated.

      QYid (Sam)
      samh@...
    • freshairfiend
      Are you looking into buying an existing boat, or are you thinking of building new? If buying, I think (as an AS29 owner) that the boat could be safely sailed
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 4, 2002
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        Are you looking into buying an existing boat, or are you thinking of
        building new?

        If buying, I think (as an AS29 owner) that the boat could be safely
        sailed offshore if need be; I wouldn't be over-worried but I wouldn't
        recommend it as a regular habit and would pick my weather very
        carefully. I'd go out of my way to plan a route to minimize the
        possibility of having to beat to windward off a shoaling lee shore
        (or worse- powering off a lee shore). I'd also try to avoid any
        downwind conditions that would roll that long boom into the water.
        The shape is wrong, the rig is wrong, the interior would need a lot
        of changes.

        If I was interested in a world cruise, I'd sell my AS29 and get
        something more appropriate. Look into Bolger's "Ataraxia" for an
        example.

        If building new, IMO modifying the AS29 for this is one of the
        sillier projects you could get into. The AS29 is the most carefully
        integrated design I have ever seen- period. Virtually any change from
        the plans degrades the boat. Contact Bolger directly by fax or mail,
        he's not a netizen- he has an "AS31" design partially finished,
        waiting for a commission to finish it. Go that route, or ask him
        about one of his other designs near the same size that would be more
        appropriate- there are several.

        Also- the appearance of constructional simplicity is misleading-
        despite the "simple" shape, the AS29 will not take any less time to
        build than more conventional boats the same size- and those boats
        will be better for what you want than the AS29 will ever be.

        So I suggest you leave the AS29 as it is- a near-ideal coastal
        cruiser- and look elsewhere.

        --- In bolger@y..., "qyid" <samhalperin@a...> wrote:
        > Hello everyone,
        >
        > It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a
        coastal
        > cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
        > to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?
        >
        > I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
        > message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be
        greatly
        > apreciated.
        >
        > QYid (Sam)
        > samh@w...
      • Nels
        A larger version of the AS29, Loose Moose had an uneventful transatlantic crossing according to PCB. In his book BWAOM here is what Phil has to say about
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 4, 2002
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          A larger version of the AS29, Loose Moose had an "uneventful"
          transatlantic crossing according to PCB.

          In his book "BWAOM" here is what Phil has to say about Loose Moose:

          "It's possible that for running down the tradewinds she would benefit
          from a temporary extension to her bow, to mitigate the bow transom's
          tendency to bury, drag, and yaw in a steep sea. It wouldn't be much
          trouble to add, but it may be simpler to ease up driving her when she
          is unhappy. Ocean passages will be rare, and need not be fast."

          IMHO that is not a very good recommendation... Nels
        • David Ryan
          ... The builder of the LMII also reports he had the Moose out in the Mediterranean in force ten conditions and it was as pleasant as such condition might be.
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 4, 2002
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            >A larger version of the AS29, Loose Moose had an "uneventful"
            >transatlantic crossing according to PCB.

            The builder of the LMII also reports he had the Moose out in the
            Mediterranean in force ten conditions and it was as pleasant as such
            condition might be. I've communicated with Bob Wise at length about
            the LMII and he seems quite satisfied with what he got for his time
            (6 months) and his money (less than many people spend on a car.)
            Remember, the commission was for a low-cost live-aboard barge that
            could safely cross an ocean when/if necessary. By those parameters it
            can only be called a success.

            YIBB,

            David
            --

            C.E.P.
            415 W.46th Street
            New York, New York 10036
            http://www.crumblingempire.com
            Mobile (646) 325-8325
            Office (212) 247-0296
          • jeff
            I ve had conversations with Bob Wise as well as Phil Bolger about the LMII. I was considering the LMII very heavily against the Wyo. The only issue was the
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 4, 2002
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              I've had conversations with Bob Wise as well as Phil Bolger about the LMII.
              I was considering the LMII very heavily against the Wyo. The only issue was
              the the high sided LMII made daily dingy access a pain. Other than that,
              for the money it was a very successful project in time, materials, and
              especially performance.

              I opted for the Wyo because I was convinced by others as well as myself that
              on the Great Cirlcy route, motoring is 95% of the time or more. No reason
              to have the sails and expense if it's rarely going to be used.

              The Wyo is a lot easier to build and only 12 feet longer than the LMII.

              Jeff

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "David Ryan" <david@...>
              To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:09 AM
              Subject: [bolger] Re: AS 29 -navigator???


              > >A larger version of the AS29, Loose Moose had an "uneventful"
              > >transatlantic crossing according to PCB.
              >
              > The builder of the LMII also reports he had the Moose out in the
              > Mediterranean in force ten conditions and it was as pleasant as such
              > condition might be. I've communicated with Bob Wise at length about
              > the LMII and he seems quite satisfied with what he got for his time
              > (6 months) and his money (less than many people spend on a car.)
              > Remember, the commission was for a low-cost live-aboard barge that
              > could safely cross an ocean when/if necessary. By those parameters it
              > can only be called a success.
              >
              > YIBB,
              >
              > David
              > --
              >
              > C.E.P.
              > 415 W.46th Street
              > New York, New York 10036
              > http://www.crumblingempire.com
              > Mobile (646) 325-8325
              > Office (212) 247-0296
              >
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
              > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
              01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • david galvin
              Sam, The sensible thing to do is to get a used, proven vessel, say a Pearson Triton for about $10,000, fix it up,
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 4, 2002
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                Sam,

                The sensible thing to do is to get a used, proven vessel, say a
                Pearson Triton <http://home.netcom.com/~suter/triton.html> for about
                $10,000, fix it up, and sail that. When you tire of sailing, at least
                you'll be assured of a ready market for your boat. All right, so it
                draws four feet of water. Another, less sensible, alternative is to
                build Bolger's Romp, a cold molded (or strip planked, or molded
                fiberglass, or carvel) 30'x8'x not much centerboarder that the
                designer has called his most seaworthy design. There's a write-up on
                the boat in an old MAIB, which I'll dig up if you're interested. The
                ease of plywood construction on a 30' boat is probably over rated,
                although Bob and Sheila Wise did well with their (Larger) Loose Moose
                II.

                As I see it, those damned bilgeboard cases, with their documented
                tendency to leak, are the main problem with the AS-29. Of lesser
                concern is where to put the self-steering gear, an issue with most
                yawls and ketches. The rig and interior are less than optimal, but
                certainly no worse than many production vessels that regularly make
                passages.

                I suspect that someone will eventually circumnavigate with an AS-29,
                in spite of its supposed faults. After all, other, more inappropriate
                boats, have done the job, and the AS-29 (as drawn) is less likely to
                sink than most monohulls,

                porky

                --- In bolger@y..., "qyid" <samhalperin@a...> wrote:
                > Hello everyone,
                >
                > It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a
                coastal
                > cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
                > to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?
                >
                > I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
                > message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be
                greatly
                > apreciated.
                >
                > QYid (Sam)
                > samh@w...
              • Richard Spelling
                Anybody have a cartoon of Romp? ... From: david galvin To: Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:18 PM Subject:
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 4, 2002
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                  Anybody have a cartoon of Romp?
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "david galvin" <porcupine@...>
                  To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:18 PM
                  Subject: [bolger] Re: AS 29 -navigator???


                  > Sam,
                  >
                  > The sensible thing to do is to get a used, proven vessel, say a
                  > Pearson Triton <http://home.netcom.com/~suter/triton.html> for about
                  > $10,000, fix it up, and sail that. When you tire of sailing, at least
                  > you'll be assured of a ready market for your boat. All right, so it
                  > draws four feet of water. Another, less sensible, alternative is to
                  > build Bolger's Romp, a cold molded (or strip planked, or molded
                  > fiberglass, or carvel) 30'x8'x not much centerboarder that the
                  > designer has called his most seaworthy design. There's a write-up on
                  > the boat in an old MAIB, which I'll dig up if you're interested. The
                  > ease of plywood construction on a 30' boat is probably over rated,
                  > although Bob and Sheila Wise did well with their (Larger) Loose Moose
                  > II.
                  >
                  > As I see it, those damned bilgeboard cases, with their documented
                  > tendency to leak, are the main problem with the AS-29. Of lesser
                  > concern is where to put the self-steering gear, an issue with most
                  > yawls and ketches. The rig and interior are less than optimal, but
                  > certainly no worse than many production vessels that regularly make
                  > passages.
                  >
                  > I suspect that someone will eventually circumnavigate with an AS-29,
                  > in spite of its supposed faults. After all, other, more inappropriate
                  > boats, have done the job, and the AS-29 (as drawn) is less likely to
                  > sink than most monohulls,
                  >
                  > porky
                  >
                  > --- In bolger@y..., "qyid" <samhalperin@a...> wrote:
                  > > Hello everyone,
                  > >
                  > > It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a
                  > coastal
                  > > cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
                  > > to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?
                  > >
                  > > I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
                  > > message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be
                  > greatly
                  > > apreciated.
                  > >
                  > > QYid (Sam)
                  > > samh@w...
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Bolger rules!!!
                  > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                  > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
                  > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                  01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • John Bell
                  ... From: david galvin Another, less sensible, alternative is to ... Please! I d love to read the write-up and see a drawing or two! I
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 4, 2002
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                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "david galvin" <porcupine@...>
                    Another, less sensible, alternative is to
                    | build Bolger's Romp, a cold molded (or strip planked, or molded
                    | fiberglass, or carvel) 30'x8'x not much centerboarder that the
                    | designer has called his most seaworthy design. There's a write-up on
                    | the boat in an old MAIB, which I'll dig up if you're interested.


                    Please! I'd love to read the write-up and see a drawing or two! I knew a guy
                    who built Romp, but have since lost contact with him. Too bad I didn't know
                    him after I got into Bolger's work...

                    JB


                    JB
                  • Peter Lenihan
                    ... David, AAh ha! Here is a fine example of a problem,which is in fact documented ,that could easily be avoided by using the Hollow building tip found in
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 4, 2002
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                      --- In bolger@y..., "david galvin" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
                      >
                      > As I see it, those damned bilgeboard cases, with their documented
                      > tendency to leak, are the main problem with the AS-29.


                      David,
                      AAh ha! Here is a fine example of a problem,which is in
                      fact"documented",that could easily be avoided by using the "Hollow"
                      building tip found in the files section.This technique really shines
                      in tough use situations like centerboard/bilgeboard cases where alot
                      of stresses can be expected and things need to be backed up with
                      mechanical fasteners(bolts,screws).This technique allows you to
                      really crank down good and hard on the bolts without risk of
                      squeezing out all that precious epoxy helping to keep that joint
                      watertight. Thanks for opening the door for me to toot my
                      favorite"boatbuilding" trick!





                      After all, other, more inappropriate
                      > boats, have done the job, and the AS-29 (as drawn) is less likely
                      to
                      > sink than most monohulls,
                      >
                      > porky

                      Very true David!! As a friend of mine is fond of
                      saying,"TINKERBELL crossed the Atlantic and the TITANIC sank!".....
                      In the end,I guess alot of it really depends on just how much
                      hardship one is willing to put up with in the pursuit of some private
                      dream.
                      Sincerely,
                      Peter Lenihan,Micro owner/builder and Windermere builder,from the
                      shores of the St.Lawrence...................................
                      >
                    • david galvin
                      John, et al, I ll post the article on the Bolger 2 site, probably on Monday, if there are no objections. It takes me a while to sort out the scanner and such.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 4, 2002
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                        John, et al,

                        I'll post the article on the Bolger 2 site, probably on Monday, if
                        there are no objections. It takes me a while to sort out the
                        scanner and such. The article includes cartoons and some pictures of
                        the boat,btw,

                        porky

                        --- In bolger@y..., "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
                        > Please! I'd love to read the write-up and see a drawing or two! I
                        knew a guy
                        > who built Romp, but have since lost contact with him. Too bad I
                        didn't know
                        > him after I got into Bolger's work...
                        >
                        > JB
                      • Nels
                        I uploaded a file in Bolger 2 entitled Offshore Leeboader and it contains a cartoon of that design. I will add the study plan when I figure out a compact way
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 4, 2002
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                          I uploaded a file in Bolger 2 entitled "Offshore Leeboader" and it
                          contains a cartoon of that design. I will add the study plan when I
                          figure out a compact way of doing it.

                          I just noticed that Part Ten of BWAOM is entitled "Real Cruisers" and
                          included in the group is "Superbrick" I love his final comments on
                          this design:

                          "It's self-righting, unsinkable, strong and stiff, none of which
                          entitles it to be called seaworthy, if only because, in bad weather,
                          at sea, it would jar and rattle it's crew to exhaustion.

                          Irresponsibe. A gratuitious mockery of Right-Thinking Boatmen and
                          other snobs."

                          Amen! Nels

                          --- In bolger@y..., "qyid" <samhalperin@a...> wrote:
                          > Hello everyone,
                          >
                          > It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a
                          coastal
                          > cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
                          > to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?
                          >
                          > I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
                          > message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be
                          greatly
                          > apreciated.
                          >
                          > QYid (Sam)
                          > samh@w...
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