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[bolger] Catfish Beachcruiser

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  • Matthew Long & Agnès Peillet
    Eureka! [Comments by H. H. Payson in MESSING ABOUT IN BOATS Vol. 11, Issue 8, p. 21] [quote] CATFISH 15 BEACHCRUISER Filling the gap between the highly
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 7, 2000
      Eureka!

      [Comments by H. H. Payson in MESSING ABOUT IN
      BOATS Vol. 11, Issue 8, p. 21]

      [quote]

      CATFISH 15 BEACHCRUISER

      Filling the gap between the highly successful
      Chebacco 20 and 12' Bobcat comes the Catfish 15
      Beachcruiser from the drawing board of Phil
      Bolger by way of my Instant Boat Plans.

      Built from plywood, the Catfish ought to weigh
      in under 300 pounds stripped according to
      Bolger. This allows the "beachcruiser" to be
      realized. With the aid of air rollers or a
      dolly she could be launched and landed on beach.

      The wide high deck makes it almost impossible to
      capsized her. Not quite impossible, but you
      have to reach far for a scenario that would do
      it. The low deck aft is for boarding. The mast
      and watertight anchor well can be reached while
      standing hip-deep in the boat and the mast can
      be lowered from the cockpit without special
      gear.

      The cockpit sole is flat and clear, 10'4"x4'6"
      on which to lay down air mattresses. A couple
      of folding chairs would be pleasant at times.
      For bad weather, or to get out of the sunshine,
      a Maine fisherman-style spray hood sets up in a
      couple of minutes and takes down even faster
      with ridgepole and crotch brace storing neatly
      out of the way.

      Completed plans are available...from Dynamite
      Payson....

      [end quote]

      Attached is a picture of a model, built by
      Payson I imagine.

      Now, my question is, "Why haven't I ever heard
      anyone discussing this design before--pros,
      cons, strengths, weaknesses?"

      John Tuma (I heard you built one), are you out
      there?

      PCB&F, anything to add?

      Regards to all,

      Matthew

      --
      Matthew Long & Agnès Peillet
      Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, USA
      Visit our homepage & the Bolger Brick "Tetard"
      pages!
      http://www.gis.net/~owlnmole
    • Rafael, Meyer
      Howdy Matthew; I have recently posted the group to ask about a seaworthy design. This thread is going off to discuss wind. I was tempted to note that of all
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 7, 2000
        Howdy Matthew;
        I have recently posted the group to ask about a seaworthy design. This
        thread is going off to discuss wind. I was tempted to note that of all
        Bolger designs I know about I am most like Ataraxia and SeaBird. I have only
        looked at your model and the jpg of the catfish plan at Dynamite Payson's
        site, but Catfish looks GREAT.
        Regards
        Meyer


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Matthew Long & Agnès Peillet [mailto:owlnmole@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 11:43 AM
        To: bolger@...
        Subject: [bolger] Catfish Beachcruiser


        Eureka!

        [Comments by H. H. Payson in MESSING ABOUT IN
        BOATS Vol. 11, Issue 8, p. 21]

        [quote]

        CATFISH 15 BEACHCRUISER

        Filling the gap between the highly successful
        Chebacco 20 and 12' Bobcat comes the Catfish 15
        Beachcruiser from the drawing board of Phil
        Bolger by way of my Instant Boat Plans.

        Built from plywood, the Catfish ought to weigh
        in under 300 pounds stripped according to
        Bolger. This allows the "beachcruiser" to be
        realized. With the aid of air rollers or a
        dolly she could be launched and landed on beach.

        The wide high deck makes it almost impossible to
        capsized her. Not quite impossible, but you
        have to reach far for a scenario that would do
        it. The low deck aft is for boarding. The mast
        and watertight anchor well can be reached while
        standing hip-deep in the boat and the mast can
        be lowered from the cockpit without special
        gear.

        The cockpit sole is flat and clear, 10'4"x4'6"
        on which to lay down air mattresses. A couple
        of folding chairs would be pleasant at times.
        For bad weather, or to get out of the sunshine,
        a Maine fisherman-style spray hood sets up in a
        couple of minutes and takes down even faster
        with ridgepole and crotch brace storing neatly
        out of the way.

        Completed plans are available...from Dynamite
        Payson....

        [end quote]

        Attached is a picture of a model, built by
        Payson I imagine.

        Now, my question is, "Why haven't I ever heard
        anyone discussing this design before--pros,
        cons, strengths, weaknesses?"

        John Tuma (I heard you built one), are you out
        there?

        PCB&F, anything to add?

        Regards to all,

        Matthew

        --
        Matthew Long & Agnès Peillet
        Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, USA
        Visit our homepage & the Bolger Brick "Tetard"
        pages!
        http://www.gis.net/~owlnmole



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      • Samson family
        Hi, Browsing my study plans (again!). I can t figure where the helmsman sits on the Catfish. Does he/she perch on the high deck? Is it down below? - might be
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 8, 2000
          Hi,

          Browsing my study plans (again!).

          I can't figure where the helmsman sits on the Catfish. Does he/she perch on
          the high deck? Is it down below? - might be hard to see where you're going.
          I guess with a big sail like that you'd want to be able to sit out.

          Bill
          -- bill.samson@...

          Chebacco News can be viewed on:
          http://members.xoom.com/billsamson

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Matthew Long & Agnès Peillet <owlnmole@...>
          To: bolger@... <bolger@...>
          Date: 08 February 2000 00:43
          Subject: [bolger] Catfish Beachcruiser


          >Eureka!
          >
          >[Comments by H. H. Payson in MESSING ABOUT IN
          >BOATS Vol. 11, Issue 8, p. 21]
          >
          >[quote]
          >
          >CATFISH 15 BEACHCRUISER
          >
          >Filling the gap between the highly successful
          >Chebacco 20 and 12' Bobcat comes the Catfish 15
          >Beachcruiser from the drawing board of Phil
          >Bolger by way of my Instant Boat Plans.
          >
          >Built from plywood, the Catfish ought to weigh
          >in under 300 pounds stripped according to
          >Bolger. This allows the "beachcruiser" to be
          >realized. With the aid of air rollers or a
          >dolly she could be launched and landed on beach.
          >
          >The wide high deck makes it almost impossible to
          >capsized her. Not quite impossible, but you
          >have to reach far for a scenario that would do
          >it. The low deck aft is for boarding. The mast
          >and watertight anchor well can be reached while
          >standing hip-deep in the boat and the mast can
          >be lowered from the cockpit without special
          >gear.
          >
          >The cockpit sole is flat and clear, 10'4"x4'6"
          >on which to lay down air mattresses. A couple
          >of folding chairs would be pleasant at times.
          >For bad weather, or to get out of the sunshine,
          >a Maine fisherman-style spray hood sets up in a
          >couple of minutes and takes down even faster
          >with ridgepole and crotch brace storing neatly
          >out of the way.
          >
          >Completed plans are available...from Dynamite
          >Payson....
          >
          >[end quote]
          >
          >Attached is a picture of a model, built by
          >Payson I imagine.
          >
          >Now, my question is, "Why haven't I ever heard
          >anyone discussing this design before--pros,
          >cons, strengths, weaknesses?"
          >
          >John Tuma (I heard you built one), are you out
          >there?
          >
          >PCB&F, anything to add?
          >
          >Regards to all,
          >
          >Matthew
          >
          >--
          >Matthew Long & Agnès Peillet
          >Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, USA
          >Visit our homepage & the Bolger Brick "Tetard"
          >pages!
          >http://www.gis.net/~owlnmole
          >
          >
          >
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >eGroups eLerts!
          >It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
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          >-- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=bolger&m=1
          >
          >
        • Fries, John
          I have been studing those plans as well and it looks to me like the helmsman stands.
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 8, 2000
            I have been studing those plans as well and it looks to me like the helmsman
            stands.

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Samson family [SMTP:Bill.Samson@...]
            > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 5:20 AM
            > To: bolger@egroups.com
            > Subject: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beachcruiser
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > Browsing my study plans (again!).
            >
            > I can't figure where the helmsman sits on the Catfish. Does he/she perch
            > on
            > the high deck? Is it down below? - might be hard to see where you're
            > going.
            > I guess with a big sail like that you'd want to be able to sit out.
            >
            > Bill
            > -- bill.samson@...
            >
            > Chebacco News can be viewed on:
            > http://members.xoom.com/billsamson
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Matthew Long & Agnès Peillet <owlnmole@...>
            > To: bolger@... <bolger@...>
            > Date: 08 February 2000 00:43
            > Subject: [bolger] Catfish Beachcruiser
            >
            >
            > >Eureka!
            > >
            > >[Comments by H. H. Payson in MESSING ABOUT IN
            > >BOATS Vol. 11, Issue 8, p. 21]
            > >
            > >[quote]
            > >
            > >CATFISH 15 BEACHCRUISER
            > >
            > >Filling the gap between the highly successful
            > >Chebacco 20 and 12' Bobcat comes the Catfish 15
            > >Beachcruiser from the drawing board of Phil
            > >Bolger by way of my Instant Boat Plans.
            > >
            > >Built from plywood, the Catfish ought to weigh
            > >in under 300 pounds stripped according to
            > >Bolger. This allows the "beachcruiser" to be
            > >realized. With the aid of air rollers or a
            > >dolly she could be launched and landed on beach.
            > >
            > >The wide high deck makes it almost impossible to
            > >capsized her. Not quite impossible, but you
            > >have to reach far for a scenario that would do
            > >it. The low deck aft is for boarding. The mast
            > >and watertight anchor well can be reached while
            > >standing hip-deep in the boat and the mast can
            > >be lowered from the cockpit without special
            > >gear.
            > >
            > >The cockpit sole is flat and clear, 10'4"x4'6"
            > >on which to lay down air mattresses. A couple
            > >of folding chairs would be pleasant at times.
            > >For bad weather, or to get out of the sunshine,
            > >a Maine fisherman-style spray hood sets up in a
            > >couple of minutes and takes down even faster
            > >with ridgepole and crotch brace storing neatly
            > >out of the way.
            > >
            > >Completed plans are available...from Dynamite
            > >Payson....
            > >
            > >[end quote]
            > >
            > >Attached is a picture of a model, built by
            > >Payson I imagine.
            > >
            > >Now, my question is, "Why haven't I ever heard
            > >anyone discussing this design before--pros,
            > >cons, strengths, weaknesses?"
            > >
            > >John Tuma (I heard you built one), are you out
            > >there?
            > >
            > >PCB&F, anything to add?
            > >
            > >Regards to all,
            > >
            > >Matthew
            > >
            > >--
            > >Matthew Long & Agnès Peillet
            > >Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, USA
            > >Visit our homepage & the Bolger Brick "Tetard"
            > >pages!
            > >http://www.gis.net/~owlnmole
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > >eGroups eLerts!
            > >It's easy. It's fun. Best of all, it's free.
            > >http://click.egroups.com/1/1237/5/_/3457/_/949970578/
            > >
            > >-- Check out your group's private Chat room
            > >-- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=bolger&m=1
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > Body Paint, Chocolates, & Roses Oh My!
            > http://click.egroups.com/1/1151/5/_/3457/_/950006170/
            >
            > -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!
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            >
          • Peter Vanderwaart
            ... helmsman ... I must say that I find the plans of Catfish to be somewhat difficult to understand. In part, this is because she has some unusual features.
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 8, 2000
              > I have been studing those plans as well and it looks to me like the
              helmsman
              > stands.

              I must say that I find the plans of Catfish to be somewhat difficult to
              understand. In part, this is because she has some unusual features. For
              example, a cockpit sole is usually below the waterline (not-self
              bailing) or well above the waterline (postively self-bailing). In
              Catfish it is very close to the waterline.

              However, clearly the point of the design is to use a shallow keel and
              keep the cockpit free of the obstructions of a centerboard. There
              should be wonderful sparwling space for a boat only 15' long. The side
              decks are about 2' above the cockpit sole. The helmsman could be very
              comfortable sitting on the sole (perhaps on a boat cushion). He could
              see pretty well, if the canvas hood was lowered. Alternately, he can
              sit on the wide side deck. Since the tiller is shown at a low height, I
              infer Mr. Bolger had the former in mind.

              Peter
            • Carter Kennedy
              The drawing also shows a stern seat that might have enough space to let the helmsman sit right next to the tiller. It s hard to tell without scaling the
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 8, 2000
                The drawing also shows a stern seat that might have enough space to let
                the helmsman sit right next to the tiller. It's hard to tell without
                scaling the drawing.

                "peter vanderwaart" <pvander-@...> wrote:
                original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2389
                > > I have been studing those plans as well and it looks to me like the
                > helmsman
                > > stands.
                >
                > I must say that I find the plans of Catfish to be somewhat difficult
                to
                > understand. In part, this is because she has some unusual features.
                For
                > example, a cockpit sole is usually below the waterline (not-self
                > bailing) or well above the waterline (postively self-bailing). In
                > Catfish it is very close to the waterline.
                >
                > However, clearly the point of the design is to use a shallow keel and
                > keep the cockpit free of the obstructions of a centerboard. There
                > should be wonderful sparwling space for a boat only 15' long. The side
                > decks are about 2' above the cockpit sole. The helmsman could be very
                > comfortable sitting on the sole (perhaps on a boat cushion). He could
                > see pretty well, if the canvas hood was lowered. Alternately, he can
                > sit on the wide side deck. Since the tiller is shown at a low height,
                I
                > infer Mr. Bolger had the former in mind.
                >
                > Peter
                >
                >
              • Davthzlt@aol.com
                i think theres seats on ether side down lower?? D.W.Johnson
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 8, 2000
                  i think theres seats on ether side down lower?? D.W.Johnson
                • Matthew Long
                  I receieved this email from John Tuma, Catfish 15 Beachcruiser builder a couple of days ago. I guess seating was an issue for him as well. [BEGIN QUOTE] Hi
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 10, 2000
                    I receieved this email from John Tuma, Catfish 15 Beachcruiser builder
                    a couple of days ago. I guess seating was an issue for him as well.

                    [BEGIN QUOTE]

                    Hi Matthew,

                    The Catfish is a great little boat. I sold mine last year, but I'm
                    having second thoughts. It was a lot of fun to sail. And pretty too.
                    However, it was either too small or too large, depending on the number
                    family members I wanted to take sailing or the distance I was
                    considering trailering it. I am actually considering building another
                    one, although with a slightly modified interior. The designed interior
                    is a bit sparse, so I put bench seats in mine. I would do a more
                    permanent job of it were I to do it again. The gaff rig is a fun to
                    sail, and way fast off the wind. The shallow keel and low-aspect main
                    doesn't make for much progress to weather, but progress was generally
                    okay once I learned to tune the rig.

                    Overall, a great little boat.

                    John Tuma

                    [END QUOTE]

                    I also noticed that Payson said, "the cockpit sole is flat and clear,
                    10'4"x4'6"," which would correspond to the sole WITHOUT the forward and
                    aft stowage/seats, so I wonder if that's the original layout.

                    I've been trying to sketch out a U-shaped rear seat, without blocking
                    the sole for camping out.

                    Any suggestions...other than build a Chebacco instead? ;-)

                    Matthew

                    --
                    Matthew Long & Agnès Peillet
                    Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts, USA
                    Visit our homepage & the Bolger Brick "Tetard" pages!
                    http://www.gis.net/~owlnmole
                  • Giuseppe Bianco
                    Dear all - I was giving a look at John Tuma s pictures and at Dynamite Payson s study plans of this nice boat. Looks great and very safe. Dynamite s study
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 6, 2000
                      Dear all - I was giving a look at John Tuma's pictures and at
                      Dynamite Payson's study plans of this nice boat. Looks great and very
                      safe. Dynamite's study plans are low resolution though, so I couldn't
                      read a few numbers. In particular, I'd like to know how thick the
                      plywood needs to be (I imagine it's 3/8", but the number is very
                      blurred) and how much sail area does it have. I'd like to know also
                      the loaded displacement and draft. Thanks all, and best
                      Pippo
                    • Wade Leftwich
                      PCB has made that nice boat even nicer with a new layout for the cockpit: http://www.messingaboutinboats.com/archives/mbissuejuly00.html -- Wade Leftwich
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 6, 2000
                        PCB has made that nice boat even nicer with a new layout for the cockpit:

                        http://www.messingaboutinboats.com/archives/mbissuejuly00.html

                        -- Wade Leftwich
                        Ithaca, NY USA


                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Giuseppe Bianco [mailto:giuseppe.bianco@...]
                        > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 8:52 AM
                        > To: bolger@egroups.com
                        > Subject: [bolger] Catfish Beachcruiser
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear all - I was giving a look at John Tuma's pictures and at
                        > Dynamite Payson's study plans of this nice boat. Looks great and very
                        > safe. Dynamite's study plans are low resolution though, so I couldn't
                        > read a few numbers. In particular, I'd like to know how thick the
                        > plywood needs to be (I imagine it's 3/8", but the number is very
                        > blurred) and how much sail area does it have. I'd like to know also
                        > the loaded displacement and draft. Thanks all, and best
                        > Pippo
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bolger rules!!!
                        > - no cursing
                        > - stay on topic
                        > - use punctuation
                        > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                        > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                        >
                      • John Tuma
                        Giuseppe, All of the plywood is 1/4 inch, and Catfish carries 139 sq. ft. of sail. John Tuma
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 6, 2000
                          Giuseppe,

                          All of the plywood is 1/4 inch, and Catfish carries 139 sq. ft. of sail.

                          John Tuma
                          >
                          > Dear all - I was giving a look at John Tuma's pictures and at
                          > Dynamite Payson's study plans of this nice boat. Looks great and very
                          > safe. Dynamite's study plans are low resolution though, so I couldn't
                          > read a few numbers. In particular, I'd like to know how thick the
                          > plywood needs to be (I imagine it's 3/8", but the number is very
                          > blurred) and how much sail area does it have. I'd like to know also
                          > the loaded displacement and draft. Thanks all, and best
                          > Pippo
                          >
                          > Bolger rules!!!
                          > - no cursing
                          > - stay on topic
                          > - use punctuation
                          > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                          > - add some content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                        • miles_bore
                          HI All, Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the modifications made by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back through the
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jun 18, 2006
                            HI All,
                            Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the modifications made
                            by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back through
                            the messages, archives and files and found the discussions and photos
                            from a year or so ago of the orginal design.
                            But has any one any knowledge of the revised Catfish?

                            I built a MIcro about 6 years ago - great boat, but just a tad heavy
                            for me to handle on my own. So I sold her a couple of years ago and am
                            now looking for the next boat to build. The Catfish cetainlty seems to
                            fit the bill so far.

                            Cheers and Thanks
                            Miles.
                          • Nels
                            When looking at the photos of the Tumafish cabin, I wonder how it would look if it was a bit higher? Like Bob Cushing s Chebacco.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
                              When looking at the photos of the "Tumafish" cabin, I wonder how it
                              would look if it was a bit higher?

                              Like Bob Cushing's Chebacco.

                              http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm.

                              Smaller area sail with a higher boom location and perhaps a small
                              mizzen? 4 horse 4-stroke motor?

                              http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm

                              Nels
                            • Chris Curtis
                              FYI, the first link will not work unless you remove the trailing period. Otherwise, a beautiful boat! Chris Curtis ... If you are neutral in situations of
                              Message 14 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
                                FYI, the first link will not work unless you remove the trailing
                                period. Otherwise, a beautiful boat!


                                Chris Curtis


                                On Apr 27, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Nels wrote:

                                > When looking at the photos of the "Tumafish" cabin, I wonder how it
                                > would look if it was a bit higher?
                                >
                                > Like Bob Cushing's Chebacco.
                                >
                                > http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm.
                                >
                                > Smaller area sail with a higher boom location and perhaps a small
                                > mizzen? 4 horse 4-stroke motor?
                                >
                                > http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm
                                >
                                > Nels
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the
                                side of the oppressor.": Bishop Desmond Tutu -(1931- ) Nobel Prize
                                for Peace 1984
                              • Chris Curtis
                                Reply to myself. Both are links to the same location, go back to sleep! CC ... If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the
                                Message 15 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
                                  Reply to myself. Both are links to the same location, go back to sleep!

                                  CC


                                  On Apr 27, 2007, at 3:29 PM, Chris Curtis wrote:

                                  > FYI, the first link will not work unless you remove the trailing
                                  > period. Otherwise, a beautiful boat!
                                  >
                                  > Chris Curtis
                                  >
                                  > On Apr 27, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Nels wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > When looking at the photos of the "Tumafish" cabin, I wonder how it
                                  > > would look if it was a bit higher?
                                  > >
                                  > > Like Bob Cushing's Chebacco.
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm.
                                  > >
                                  > > Smaller area sail with a higher boom location and perhaps a small
                                  > > mizzen? 4 horse 4-stroke motor?
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.chebacco.com/chebacco_news/chebac17.htm
                                  > >
                                  > > Nels
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the
                                  > side of the oppressor.": Bishop Desmond Tutu -(1931- ) Nobel Prize
                                  > for Peace 1984
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the
                                  side of the oppressor.": Bishop Desmond Tutu -(1931- ) Nobel Prize
                                  for Peace 1984
                                • Nels
                                  ... Well thanks for waking me up! I have no idea why I put in two links. I think PCB&F would be interested in a Birdwatcher type cabin upgrade to Catfish.
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis
                                    <ccurtis-keyword-sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Reply to myself. Both are links to the same location, go back to sleep!
                                    >
                                    > CC
                                    >
                                    Well thanks for waking me up! I have no idea why I put in two links.

                                    I think PCB&F would be interested in a "Birdwatcher" type cabin
                                    upgrade to Catfish. And it would be a very useful consideration for
                                    some folks. I have often wondered why more of these boats were never
                                    built. Perhaps because it may take almost as much work as the already
                                    available Chebacco version, may be the deciding factor?

                                    Yet it is lighter to trailer, requires a smaller motor, and seems to
                                    have a lot of interior space for it's outer dimensions. Sort of a
                                    motorsailer version of Camper 640 for those of us too lazy to row. Bob
                                    mentions he could do 7-8 knots with the CMS with the 9.9. This might
                                    do 5 knots with half the power.

                                    So I ordered the Payson book to see what he has to say about it. If
                                    one considers the cost of materials, including sails, the plan price,
                                    and the cost of a smaller motor which just sips gas - perhaps the time
                                    is ripe:-)

                                    To me the bow profile of this design is really attractive. Sort of
                                    like one the larger freighter canoes written about in a recent MAIB
                                    article. But has shelter and probably costs less to build.

                                    Nels (Taking a break at doing the old taxes.)
                                  • Chris Curtis
                                    ... I realized the trailing (correct punctuation) would cause less Internet savvy people problems. I posted before I even tried the second link. I was
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
                                      On Apr 27, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Nels wrote:

                                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis
                                      > <ccurtis-keyword-sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Reply to myself. Both are links to the same location, go back to
                                      > sleep!
                                      > >
                                      > > CC
                                      > >
                                      > Well thanks for waking me up! I have no idea why I put in two links.

                                      I realized the trailing (correct punctuation) would cause less
                                      Internet savvy people problems. I posted before I even tried the
                                      second link. I was remarking to myself to wake up. Just trying to
                                      be helpful (sometimes a liability;0)
                                      >
                                      > I think PCB&F would be interested in a "Birdwatcher" type cabin
                                      > upgrade to Catfish. And it would be a very useful consideration for
                                      > some folks. I have often wondered why more of these boats were never
                                      > built. Perhaps because it may take almost as much work as the already
                                      > available Chebacco version, may be the deciding factor?

                                      I agree the Catfish would be nice with a BW cabin. But then again,
                                      many boats could be fitted with the BW cabin. I'm a bit biased, as
                                      I'm building a BW style boat. I think some boats "take off" due to
                                      persons whom share their building and sailing pictures. I think this
                                      is inspiring to some (many?). Many (all?) of the popular designs
                                      have a community that builds around them, and things take on a life
                                      of their own.

                                      Chris Curtis


                                      >
                                      > Yet it is lighter to trailer, requires a smaller motor, and seems to
                                      > have a lot of interior space for it's outer dimensions. Sort of a
                                      > motorsailer version of Camper 640 for those of us too lazy to row. Bob
                                      > mentions he could do 7-8 knots with the CMS with the 9.9. This might
                                      > do 5 knots with half the power.
                                      >
                                      > So I ordered the Payson book to see what he has to say about it. If
                                      > one considers the cost of materials, including sails, the plan price,
                                      > and the cost of a smaller motor which just sips gas - perhaps the time
                                      > is ripe:-)
                                      >
                                      > To me the bow profile of this design is really attractive. Sort of
                                      > like one the larger freighter canoes written about in a recent MAIB
                                      > article. But has shelter and probably costs less to build.
                                      > Nels (Taking a break at doing the old taxes.)
                                    • John and Kathy Trussell
                                      I wonder what would happen if you put a BW cabin on an Old Shoe. With Old Shoe s vertical sides, it should be a straight forward project, although the sail
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Apr 27, 2007
                                        I wonder what would happen if you put a BW cabin on an Old Shoe. With Old Shoe's vertical sides, it should be a straight forward project, although the sail plan would have to be altered to clear the top.

                                        JohnT
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Chris Curtis
                                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:14 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Catfish Beachcruiser



                                        On Apr 27, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Nels wrote:

                                        > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis
                                        > <ccurtis-keyword-sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Reply to myself. Both are links to the same location, go back to
                                        > sleep!
                                        > >
                                        > > CC
                                        > >
                                        > Well thanks for waking me up! I have no idea why I put in two links.

                                        I realized the trailing (correct punctuation) would cause less
                                        Internet savvy people problems. I posted before I even tried the
                                        second link. I was remarking to myself to wake up. Just trying to
                                        be helpful (sometimes a liability;0)
                                        >
                                        > I think PCB&F would be interested in a "Birdwatcher" type cabin
                                        > upgrade to Catfish. And it would be a very useful consideration for
                                        > some folks. I have often wondered why more of these boats were never
                                        > built. Perhaps because it may take almost as much work as the already
                                        > available Chebacco version, may be the deciding factor?

                                        I agree the Catfish would be nice with a BW cabin. But then again,
                                        many boats could be fitted with the BW cabin. I'm a bit biased, as
                                        I'm building a BW style boat. I think some boats "take off" due to
                                        persons whom share their building and sailing pictures. I think this
                                        is inspiring to some (many?). Many (all?) of the popular designs
                                        have a community that builds around them, and things take on a life
                                        of their own.

                                        Chris Curtis

                                        >
                                        > Yet it is lighter to trailer, requires a smaller motor, and seems to
                                        > have a lot of interior space for it's outer dimensions. Sort of a
                                        > motorsailer version of Camper 640 for those of us too lazy to row. Bob
                                        > mentions he could do 7-8 knots with the CMS with the 9.9. This might
                                        > do 5 knots with half the power.
                                        >
                                        > So I ordered the Payson book to see what he has to say about it. If
                                        > one considers the cost of materials, including sails, the plan price,
                                        > and the cost of a smaller motor which just sips gas - perhaps the time
                                        > is ripe:-)
                                        >
                                        > To me the bow profile of this design is really attractive. Sort of
                                        > like one the larger freighter canoes written about in a recent MAIB
                                        > article. But has shelter and probably costs less to build.
                                        > Nels (Taking a break at doing the old taxes.)






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                                      • lakepepinmollyblue
                                        ... With Old Shoe s vertical sides, it should be a straight forward project, although the sail plan would have to be altered to clear the top. Planning this
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Apr 28, 2007
                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "John and Kathy Trussell"
                                          <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I wonder what would happen if you put a BW cabin on an Old Shoe.
                                          With Old Shoe's vertical sides, it should be a straight forward
                                          project, although the sail plan would have to be altered to clear the
                                          top.

                                          Planning this very thing for next winters project. A note from Bolger
                                          OK'd the concept and suggested simply raising the main a foot would
                                          give clearance without messing up balance. I'd proposed the Super
                                          Mouse rig but he had no time to work it out. Meanwhile, back to
                                          grinding on the new Teal if it's gonna splash by Memorial Day.

                                          From the muddy but blessedly ice free Mississippi,

                                          Bob
                                        • bris120
                                          Hi Miles I have been searching for a boat to build and came across your query in the bolger yahoo group. Just wondering if you went ahead and started building
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Aug 22, 2007
                                            Hi Miles

                                            I have been searching for a boat to build and came across your query
                                            in the bolger yahoo group. Just wondering if you went ahead and
                                            started building a catfish beachcruiser? Like you I am very taken by
                                            the design with the updated layout. Having seen photos of the
                                            original version you can see it didnt work too well.

                                            I would like to know if the updated design still allows for a
                                            cabin/shelter of some description as shown on the original sketches?
                                            My wife doesnt like sitting out in the sun all day while cruising and
                                            fishing. It looks like a handy shelter but I am unsure how it will
                                            work with the updated deck and interior layout.

                                            Cheers Brett.


                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "miles_bore" <miles_bore@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > HI All,
                                            > Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the modifications
                                            made
                                            > by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back
                                            through
                                            > the messages, archives and files and found the discussions and
                                            photos
                                            > from a year or so ago of the orginal design.
                                            > But has any one any knowledge of the revised Catfish?
                                            >
                                            > I built a MIcro about 6 years ago - great boat, but just a tad
                                            heavy
                                            > for me to handle on my own. So I sold her a couple of years ago and
                                            am
                                            > now looking for the next boat to build. The Catfish cetainlty seems
                                            to
                                            > fit the bill so far.
                                            >
                                            > Cheers and Thanks
                                            > Miles.
                                            >
                                          • graeme19121984
                                            G day Brett, are you in Bris, OZ? BEACH CAT would be a great boat for the bay, or right up and down the coast even. I think it would be real good up North. I
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Aug 23, 2007
                                              G'day Brett,

                                              are you in Bris, OZ? BEACH CAT would be a great boat for the bay, or
                                              right up and down the coast even. I think it would be real good up
                                              North. I think a recent Ross Lillistone cruising story was based on
                                              this design. It sounds as if you too want to cruise - not daysail.

                                              SA, I think, wrote about the optional revision to #589 available
                                              from PB&F in MAIB July 15, 2000 "...And the seating is very
                                              comfortable. She could still be organized as a camping overnighter
                                              without much trouble, boom tent and all...". They write of a "boom
                                              tent" - I don't think one of the original two options for shelter
                                              would fit without much enlarging and reshaping, the other may well
                                              suit, or almost, so you might have to adapt the original cuddy
                                              shelter designs yourself. Neither were "boom tents".

                                              What they do say when writing about this optional revision
                                              is "..Some day we'll probably get around to redrawing her once more,
                                              to cater to those with the widespread no-lead-melting impulse who
                                              desire a "garageable" light cruiser with hard shelter for 1+1 crew,
                                              this time with a Birdwatcher-type house..." - and I don't think they
                                              have as yet done that.

                                              Importantly, I think, FWIW, they say about the revision "...Now the
                                              narrow decks are high enough, and the hull sides are buoyant enough,
                                              to make it very hard to ship any water over the coarning (sic) in
                                              day-sailing weather..." - This needs some translating as the decks
                                              are at the original height. It's just that, though narrowed a fair
                                              bit, their width, but mainly the coaming and topsides freeboard will
                                              keep most water where it should be most of the time. Note: Day-
                                              sailing!

                                              Compare that with what they write about designing the
                                              original "...We had the idea of making her into a camping cruiser,
                                              with high sides and enough deck to make her cockpit float well clear
                                              of the water even in a beam ends knockdown. She could go off by
                                              herself in squally weather without much tension at the helm..." -
                                              Note: camping cruiser, by herself, squally weather, little tension!

                                              The optional revision gains the questioable benefits of the
                                              centreboard, but loses the raised floor, at least as shown in the
                                              cartoon. That raised floor gave a 52" wide deck flat for real spread-
                                              out sleeping and other accomodations. The cartoon also seems to show
                                              the crew as quite cramped for leg room when seated on the revised
                                              benches. Crew is shown as having to stick their legs out and rest
                                              them on the centreboard case, otherwise the knees will have to
                                              remain bent. The bottom is quite narrow, maybe 3', so sleeping
                                              either side of that case is goint to be very squishy, and not
                                              cuddly, for some.

                                              FWIW I think a leeboard (or two)could be adapted fairly easily to
                                              the original design, and I'd go with an offset transom-hung kick-up
                                              rudder (or two shallow endplaters). Yes, that's a bit Michalak-like,
                                              but it's also very, very much Bolger. (BEACH CAT is quite different
                                              to even the closest of JM's designs IMO.)

                                              How about some more narrow rectangular ports along the sides high up
                                              in the original, or a narrow full length PICTURE window strip ala
                                              BIRDWATCHER? Could a strip of ply topsides only a couple of inches
                                              wide be replaced with polycarbonate without too much trouble
                                              structurally or in the building? What do any BIRDWATCHER or
                                              NAVIGATOR builders think of that?

                                              BEACH CAT
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/BEACH%
                                              20CAT/ Paste on that last bit of link in browser if broken, or
                                              third down page here:

                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/

                                              Graeme

                                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hi Miles
                                              >
                                              > I have been searching for a boat to build and came across your
                                              query
                                              > in the bolger yahoo group. Just wondering if you went ahead and
                                              > started building a catfish beachcruiser? Like you I am very taken
                                              by
                                              > the design with the updated layout. Having seen photos of the
                                              > original version you can see it didnt work too well.
                                              >
                                              > I would like to know if the updated design still allows for a
                                              > cabin/shelter of some description as shown on the original
                                              sketches?
                                              > My wife doesnt like sitting out in the sun all day while cruising
                                              and
                                              > fishing. It looks like a handy shelter but I am unsure how it will
                                              > work with the updated deck and interior layout.
                                              >
                                              > Cheers Brett.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "miles_bore" <miles_bore@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > HI All,
                                              > > Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the
                                              modifications
                                              > made
                                              > > by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back
                                              > through
                                              > > the messages, archives and files and found the discussions and
                                              > photos
                                              > > from a year or so ago of the orginal design.
                                              > > But has any one any knowledge of the revised Catfish?
                                              > >
                                              > > I built a MIcro about 6 years ago - great boat, but just a tad
                                              > heavy
                                              > > for me to handle on my own. So I sold her a couple of years ago
                                              and
                                              > am
                                              > > now looking for the next boat to build. The Catfish cetainlty
                                              seems
                                              > to
                                              > > fit the bill so far.
                                              > >
                                              > > Cheers and Thanks
                                              > > Miles.
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • bris120
                                              Hi Graeme Yes I am in Brisbane, Aust and the boat is for weekend cruising around Moreton Bay. Thank you for your observations as I have been trying to make
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Aug 23, 2007
                                                Hi Graeme

                                                Yes I am in Brisbane, Aust and the boat is for weekend cruising
                                                around Moreton Bay. Thank you for your observations as I have been
                                                trying to make sense of the drawings and have faxed Phil Bolger to
                                                clarify a few points such as the height of the sides and ballast.

                                                I have decided that should I proceed I would stick with the fixed
                                                keel with the revised interior and deck layout to retain the open
                                                floor space. I am not sure about the floor heights. I would prefer a
                                                lower floor for head clearance (I am 6'2") if possible and this may
                                                be better for keeping out of the sun under the canvas shelter.

                                                I have asked Phil Bolger whether the canvas shelters have been
                                                retained on the update. If not I dont think they would be hard to
                                                redesign as I like the flexibility of only having them when needed
                                                and still enjoying a full open layout when not.

                                                By the way my bet is Lillistone was talking about a Micro in the
                                                article you mention - have another read and it fits. Also I dont know
                                                of any beachcats or catfish beachcruisers built here yet - they are
                                                very elusive! I suspect that should a couple be built and a bit of
                                                info and photos make it to the web they may take off.

                                                Thanks for the info and I will keep you posted when I hear more from
                                                Mr Bolger about the design.

                                                Cheers Brett.


                                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > G'day Brett,
                                                >
                                                > are you in Bris, OZ? BEACH CAT would be a great boat for the bay,
                                                or
                                                > right up and down the coast even. I think it would be real good up
                                                > North. I think a recent Ross Lillistone cruising story was based on
                                                > this design. It sounds as if you too want to cruise - not daysail.
                                                >
                                                > SA, I think, wrote about the optional revision to #589 available
                                                > from PB&F in MAIB July 15, 2000 "...And the seating is very
                                                > comfortable. She could still be organized as a camping overnighter
                                                > without much trouble, boom tent and all...". They write of a "boom
                                                > tent" - I don't think one of the original two options for shelter
                                                > would fit without much enlarging and reshaping, the other may well
                                                > suit, or almost, so you might have to adapt the original cuddy
                                                > shelter designs yourself. Neither were "boom tents".
                                                >
                                                > What they do say when writing about this optional revision
                                                > is "..Some day we'll probably get around to redrawing her once
                                                more,
                                                > to cater to those with the widespread no-lead-melting impulse who
                                                > desire a "garageable" light cruiser with hard shelter for 1+1 crew,
                                                > this time with a Birdwatcher-type house..." - and I don't think
                                                they
                                                > have as yet done that.
                                                >
                                                > Importantly, I think, FWIW, they say about the revision "...Now the
                                                > narrow decks are high enough, and the hull sides are buoyant
                                                enough,
                                                > to make it very hard to ship any water over the coarning (sic) in
                                                > day-sailing weather..." - This needs some translating as the decks
                                                > are at the original height. It's just that, though narrowed a fair
                                                > bit, their width, but mainly the coaming and topsides freeboard
                                                will
                                                > keep most water where it should be most of the time. Note: Day-
                                                > sailing!
                                                >
                                                > Compare that with what they write about designing the
                                                > original "...We had the idea of making her into a camping cruiser,
                                                > with high sides and enough deck to make her cockpit float well
                                                clear
                                                > of the water even in a beam ends knockdown. She could go off by
                                                > herself in squally weather without much tension at the helm..." -
                                                > Note: camping cruiser, by herself, squally weather, little tension!
                                                >
                                                > The optional revision gains the questioable benefits of the
                                                > centreboard, but loses the raised floor, at least as shown in the
                                                > cartoon. That raised floor gave a 52" wide deck flat for real
                                                spread-
                                                > out sleeping and other accomodations. The cartoon also seems to
                                                show
                                                > the crew as quite cramped for leg room when seated on the revised
                                                > benches. Crew is shown as having to stick their legs out and rest
                                                > them on the centreboard case, otherwise the knees will have to
                                                > remain bent. The bottom is quite narrow, maybe 3', so sleeping
                                                > either side of that case is goint to be very squishy, and not
                                                > cuddly, for some.
                                                >
                                                > FWIW I think a leeboard (or two)could be adapted fairly easily to
                                                > the original design, and I'd go with an offset transom-hung kick-up
                                                > rudder (or two shallow endplaters). Yes, that's a bit Michalak-
                                                like,
                                                > but it's also very, very much Bolger. (BEACH CAT is quite different
                                                > to even the closest of JM's designs IMO.)
                                                >
                                                > How about some more narrow rectangular ports along the sides high
                                                up
                                                > in the original, or a narrow full length PICTURE window strip ala
                                                > BIRDWATCHER? Could a strip of ply topsides only a couple of inches
                                                > wide be replaced with polycarbonate without too much trouble
                                                > structurally or in the building? What do any BIRDWATCHER or
                                                > NAVIGATOR builders think of that?
                                                >
                                                > BEACH CAT
                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/BEACH%
                                                > 20CAT/ Paste on that last bit of link in browser if broken, or
                                                > third down page here:
                                                >
                                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/
                                                >
                                                > Graeme
                                                >
                                                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Hi Miles
                                                > >
                                                > > I have been searching for a boat to build and came across your
                                                > query
                                                > > in the bolger yahoo group. Just wondering if you went ahead and
                                                > > started building a catfish beachcruiser? Like you I am very taken
                                                > by
                                                > > the design with the updated layout. Having seen photos of the
                                                > > original version you can see it didnt work too well.
                                                > >
                                                > > I would like to know if the updated design still allows for a
                                                > > cabin/shelter of some description as shown on the original
                                                > sketches?
                                                > > My wife doesnt like sitting out in the sun all day while cruising
                                                > and
                                                > > fishing. It looks like a handy shelter but I am unsure how it
                                                will
                                                > > work with the updated deck and interior layout.
                                                > >
                                                > > Cheers Brett.
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "miles_bore" <miles_bore@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > HI All,
                                                > > > Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the
                                                > modifications
                                                > > made
                                                > > > by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back
                                                > > through
                                                > > > the messages, archives and files and found the discussions and
                                                > > photos
                                                > > > from a year or so ago of the orginal design.
                                                > > > But has any one any knowledge of the revised Catfish?
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I built a MIcro about 6 years ago - great boat, but just a tad
                                                > > heavy
                                                > > > for me to handle on my own. So I sold her a couple of years ago
                                                > and
                                                > > am
                                                > > > now looking for the next boat to build. The Catfish cetainlty
                                                > seems
                                                > > to
                                                > > > fit the bill so far.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Cheers and Thanks
                                                > > > Miles.
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • bris120
                                                Hi Graeme I had another look at Ross Lillistone s article and I stand corrected - it may be a beachcat, not a micro as I had thought. He refers to a single
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Sep 2, 2007
                                                  Hi Graeme

                                                  I had another look at Ross Lillistone's article and I stand
                                                  corrected - it may be a beachcat, not a micro as I had thought. He
                                                  refers to a single gaff sail, not a yawl.

                                                  I might send him a message to see if you are right!

                                                  Cheers, Brett.



                                                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > G'day Brett,
                                                  >
                                                  > are you in Bris, OZ? BEACH CAT would be a great boat for the bay,
                                                  or
                                                  > right up and down the coast even. I think it would be real good up
                                                  > North. I think a recent Ross Lillistone cruising story was based on
                                                  > this design. It sounds as if you too want to cruise - not daysail.
                                                  >
                                                  > SA, I think, wrote about the optional revision to #589 available
                                                  > from PB&F in MAIB July 15, 2000 "...And the seating is very
                                                  > comfortable. She could still be organized as a camping overnighter
                                                  > without much trouble, boom tent and all...". They write of a "boom
                                                  > tent" - I don't think one of the original two options for shelter
                                                  > would fit without much enlarging and reshaping, the other may well
                                                  > suit, or almost, so you might have to adapt the original cuddy
                                                  > shelter designs yourself. Neither were "boom tents".
                                                  >
                                                  > What they do say when writing about this optional revision
                                                  > is "..Some day we'll probably get around to redrawing her once
                                                  more,
                                                  > to cater to those with the widespread no-lead-melting impulse who
                                                  > desire a "garageable" light cruiser with hard shelter for 1+1 crew,
                                                  > this time with a Birdwatcher-type house..." - and I don't think
                                                  they
                                                  > have as yet done that.
                                                  >
                                                  > Importantly, I think, FWIW, they say about the revision "...Now the
                                                  > narrow decks are high enough, and the hull sides are buoyant
                                                  enough,
                                                  > to make it very hard to ship any water over the coarning (sic) in
                                                  > day-sailing weather..." - This needs some translating as the decks
                                                  > are at the original height. It's just that, though narrowed a fair
                                                  > bit, their width, but mainly the coaming and topsides freeboard
                                                  will
                                                  > keep most water where it should be most of the time. Note: Day-
                                                  > sailing!
                                                  >
                                                  > Compare that with what they write about designing the
                                                  > original "...We had the idea of making her into a camping cruiser,
                                                  > with high sides and enough deck to make her cockpit float well
                                                  clear
                                                  > of the water even in a beam ends knockdown. She could go off by
                                                  > herself in squally weather without much tension at the helm..." -
                                                  > Note: camping cruiser, by herself, squally weather, little tension!
                                                  >
                                                  > The optional revision gains the questioable benefits of the
                                                  > centreboard, but loses the raised floor, at least as shown in the
                                                  > cartoon. That raised floor gave a 52" wide deck flat for real
                                                  spread-
                                                  > out sleeping and other accomodations. The cartoon also seems to
                                                  show
                                                  > the crew as quite cramped for leg room when seated on the revised
                                                  > benches. Crew is shown as having to stick their legs out and rest
                                                  > them on the centreboard case, otherwise the knees will have to
                                                  > remain bent. The bottom is quite narrow, maybe 3', so sleeping
                                                  > either side of that case is goint to be very squishy, and not
                                                  > cuddly, for some.
                                                  >
                                                  > FWIW I think a leeboard (or two)could be adapted fairly easily to
                                                  > the original design, and I'd go with an offset transom-hung kick-up
                                                  > rudder (or two shallow endplaters). Yes, that's a bit Michalak-
                                                  like,
                                                  > but it's also very, very much Bolger. (BEACH CAT is quite different
                                                  > to even the closest of JM's designs IMO.)
                                                  >
                                                  > How about some more narrow rectangular ports along the sides high
                                                  up
                                                  > in the original, or a narrow full length PICTURE window strip ala
                                                  > BIRDWATCHER? Could a strip of ply topsides only a couple of inches
                                                  > wide be replaced with polycarbonate without too much trouble
                                                  > structurally or in the building? What do any BIRDWATCHER or
                                                  > NAVIGATOR builders think of that?
                                                  >
                                                  > BEACH CAT
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/BEACH%
                                                  > 20CAT/ Paste on that last bit of link in browser if broken, or
                                                  > third down page here:
                                                  >
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/
                                                  >
                                                  > Graeme
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Hi Miles
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I have been searching for a boat to build and came across your
                                                  > query
                                                  > > in the bolger yahoo group. Just wondering if you went ahead and
                                                  > > started building a catfish beachcruiser? Like you I am very taken
                                                  > by
                                                  > > the design with the updated layout. Having seen photos of the
                                                  > > original version you can see it didnt work too well.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I would like to know if the updated design still allows for a
                                                  > > cabin/shelter of some description as shown on the original
                                                  > sketches?
                                                  > > My wife doesnt like sitting out in the sun all day while cruising
                                                  > and
                                                  > > fishing. It looks like a handy shelter but I am unsure how it
                                                  will
                                                  > > work with the updated deck and interior layout.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Cheers Brett.
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "miles_bore" <miles_bore@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > HI All,
                                                  > > > Has any one built the Catfish Beachcruiser with the
                                                  > modifications
                                                  > > made
                                                  > > > by Phil to the deck and the centreboard? I have seached back
                                                  > > through
                                                  > > > the messages, archives and files and found the discussions and
                                                  > > photos
                                                  > > > from a year or so ago of the orginal design.
                                                  > > > But has any one any knowledge of the revised Catfish?
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I built a MIcro about 6 years ago - great boat, but just a tad
                                                  > > heavy
                                                  > > > for me to handle on my own. So I sold her a couple of years ago
                                                  > and
                                                  > > am
                                                  > > > now looking for the next boat to build. The Catfish cetainlty
                                                  > seems
                                                  > > to
                                                  > > > fit the bill so far.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Cheers and Thanks
                                                  > > > Miles.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • graeme19121984
                                                  Hi Brett, yes, your thinking it to be a Micro made me go and read it again too. The shallow keel, that, and being able to walk right through the high cockpit
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Sep 2, 2007
                                                    Hi Brett,

                                                    yes, your thinking it to be a Micro made me go and read it again
                                                    too. The shallow keel, that, and being able to walk right through
                                                    the high cockpit to the mast were other clues as well as the single
                                                    gaff sail. I don't know about all the _built in_ storage he mentions
                                                    though, unless using the space for the wc for general storage
                                                    instead. I'm sure he's written a few other stories that feature a
                                                    Micro. It'd be interesting to see what his reply was, maybe he may
                                                    be building a CB/BC...

                                                    The other day I roughly marked out some of the plan view sectioned
                                                    lines of CATFISH/BEACH CAT and in even less detail a few other boats
                                                    for comparison. WOW! For 10 sheets of 6mm ply that is a lot of boat!

                                                    I really don't like the revision, bearing in mind that it is
                                                    cruising that I'm considering more than a short day sail. The
                                                    considerably less draft than with the fixed keel would be an
                                                    improvement, but the centreboard (and side benches) just wrecks the
                                                    cockpit. I still think leeboards, of whatever kind (twin or solo),
                                                    or a single lee daggerboard (the one off ANHINGA might do), or
                                                    inclined bilge daggerboards would allow less draft while keeping the
                                                    internal space. These all should work as the CLR needs to be at or
                                                    very near the widest beam. I think the flow lines are in line for
                                                    the bilgeboards. I wonder if it could be built so that the keel
                                                    could be easily added later if other options really didn't pan out?

                                                    I could see the merit in what John Tuma posted about placing the
                                                    deck stiffening stringer on the underside so that the decks made a
                                                    better seat for sitting up on the windward side. I'm 185cm, and as a
                                                    side bench, for me the side deck height would be reasonably
                                                    comfortable.My feet wouldn't reach the other deck edge though, so
                                                    perhaps I'd install some hiking toe straps on the floor in racing
                                                    style ;-) The side decks would be much too high for kids, so I see
                                                    why John Tuma installed side benches inside them.

                                                    The boat could be sailed while you were very comfortably sprawled
                                                    athwartships across the floor too. PB&F are correct though when they
                                                    said the decks were a bit low for the most comfort inside - the
                                                    trouble is: if you raise them you can't sit out on them :-( That
                                                    still leaves the complicated birdwatcher option they mentioned of
                                                    much higher sides with picture windows.

                                                    The boat seems unbelievably roomy! There are quite a few interesting
                                                    features that PB must have put considerable beach cruiser experience
                                                    and thought into. The narrow bottom shoe panel makes it look to me
                                                    as if the boat would get along nicely - and in stronger wind John
                                                    Tuma posted, IIRC, that she would plane on the bilge panel!

                                                    There's just the issue of draft: about 15" vs 6".




                                                    --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Hi Graeme
                                                    >
                                                    > I had another look at Ross Lillistone's article...
                                                  • bris120
                                                    Hi Graeme I am also interested in the cruising features of the boat and would go with the fixed keel - while the draft is a bit of a nuisance I think that from
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Sep 4, 2007
                                                      Hi Graeme

                                                      I am also interested in the cruising features of the boat and would
                                                      go with the fixed keel - while the draft is a bit of a nuisance I
                                                      think that from a simplicity point of view and extra space it
                                                      provides it wins out over the centreboard.

                                                      I am just not sure about the cockpit layout. I am 6'2" and my wife
                                                      would like somewhere to get out of the sun. We are not interested in
                                                      sleeping in the boat so I am thinking of using the revised narrow
                                                      decks with some side benches at the aft end of the cockpit only
                                                      connecting with the rear bench. I am still unsure whether I would put
                                                      the false floor in as per the original design or go with the revised
                                                      layout which gives more freeboard. The bottom of the boat is flat
                                                      anyway!

                                                      I like the idea of the canvas shelter and would be adapting something
                                                      from the original design or making a second boom purely for a
                                                      shelter/tent which sits under the boom. I think that until the boat
                                                      is built that decision will not be able to be made.

                                                      So many permutations with this design now, choice is a double sided
                                                      blade! One of us better bite the bullet and build one so we have more
                                                      to go on!

                                                      Cheers Brett.








                                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Hi Brett,
                                                      >
                                                      > yes, your thinking it to be a Micro made me go and read it again
                                                      > too. The shallow keel, that, and being able to walk right through
                                                      > the high cockpit to the mast were other clues as well as the single
                                                      > gaff sail. I don't know about all the _built in_ storage he
                                                      mentions
                                                      > though, unless using the space for the wc for general storage
                                                      > instead. I'm sure he's written a few other stories that feature a
                                                      > Micro. It'd be interesting to see what his reply was, maybe he may
                                                      > be building a CB/BC...
                                                      >
                                                      > The other day I roughly marked out some of the plan view sectioned
                                                      > lines of CATFISH/BEACH CAT and in even less detail a few other
                                                      boats
                                                      > for comparison. WOW! For 10 sheets of 6mm ply that is a lot of boat!
                                                      >
                                                      > I really don't like the revision, bearing in mind that it is
                                                      > cruising that I'm considering more than a short day sail. The
                                                      > considerably less draft than with the fixed keel would be an
                                                      > improvement, but the centreboard (and side benches) just wrecks the
                                                      > cockpit. I still think leeboards, of whatever kind (twin or solo),
                                                      > or a single lee daggerboard (the one off ANHINGA might do), or
                                                      > inclined bilge daggerboards would allow less draft while keeping
                                                      the
                                                      > internal space. These all should work as the CLR needs to be at or
                                                      > very near the widest beam. I think the flow lines are in line for
                                                      > the bilgeboards. I wonder if it could be built so that the keel
                                                      > could be easily added later if other options really didn't pan out?
                                                      >
                                                      > I could see the merit in what John Tuma posted about placing the
                                                      > deck stiffening stringer on the underside so that the decks made a
                                                      > better seat for sitting up on the windward side. I'm 185cm, and as
                                                      a
                                                      > side bench, for me the side deck height would be reasonably
                                                      > comfortable.My feet wouldn't reach the other deck edge though, so
                                                      > perhaps I'd install some hiking toe straps on the floor in racing
                                                      > style ;-) The side decks would be much too high for kids, so I see
                                                      > why John Tuma installed side benches inside them.
                                                      >
                                                      > The boat could be sailed while you were very comfortably sprawled
                                                      > athwartships across the floor too. PB&F are correct though when
                                                      they
                                                      > said the decks were a bit low for the most comfort inside - the
                                                      > trouble is: if you raise them you can't sit out on them :-( That
                                                      > still leaves the complicated birdwatcher option they mentioned of
                                                      > much higher sides with picture windows.
                                                      >
                                                      > The boat seems unbelievably roomy! There are quite a few
                                                      interesting
                                                      > features that PB must have put considerable beach cruiser
                                                      experience
                                                      > and thought into. The narrow bottom shoe panel makes it look to me
                                                      > as if the boat would get along nicely - and in stronger wind John
                                                      > Tuma posted, IIRC, that she would plane on the bilge panel!
                                                      >
                                                      > There's just the issue of draft: about 15" vs 6".
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Hi Graeme
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I had another look at Ross Lillistone's article...
                                                      >
                                                    • graeme19121984
                                                      Hi Brett, Ahhh... permutations... and time. In the back of my mind somewhere is the thought that actually, for this summer, it will be a 6 sheet disposable
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Sep 4, 2007
                                                        Hi Brett,

                                                        Ahhh... permutations... and time. In the back of my mind somewhere
                                                        is the thought that actually, for this summer, it will be a 6 sheet
                                                        disposable Zephyr with a bimini thingo, partial floorboards, forward
                                                        bulwarks, and maybe a lashed-on outrigger with an outboard slung
                                                        from that...


                                                        I wrote above that the centreboard (and side benches) wreck the
                                                        Catfish cabin for cruising. That's not quite what I meant.
                                                        Comfortable cruising would be possible with one or the other; that
                                                        is, an adult could find room to stretch out on the original floor
                                                        with either the cb or the benches, but not both.

                                                        When I mocked up the lines in the backyard using garden hose,
                                                        coloured clothes pegs, a kitchen chair with a thick wooden block on
                                                        it to get the deck height, and a Hills hoist for the mast, I felt
                                                        that in the original there was enough space between the cb and decks
                                                        to sit out on the decks without cramping the legs too much. Of
                                                        course, aft of the cb there was more athwartships leg room, and I
                                                        looked at that option, but would simply prefer the versatility of
                                                        all the space of the original floor if it's possible with a leeboard.

                                                        I'm 6'2" and fairly sure your wife could get out of the sun in some
                                                        comfort under a canopy. Sun smart is important to me too! Also, bean
                                                        bags might well suit this boat!

                                                        The fin keel is simple isn't it, and that's attractive, and as PB&F
                                                        wrote the finned boat will sail in thinner water, but could it be
                                                        slid any across a mud bank when taking a short cut? The tidal drop
                                                        means the boat often would have to be anchored quite a way out
                                                        (about the same as Micro) and that means either wading a long way
                                                        through chest high water or knee high mud. And the trailer is not as
                                                        simple. Yep, permutations alright


                                                        Cheers
                                                        Graeme


                                                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@...> wrote:

                                                        > .. keel.. I think that from a simplicity point of view and extra
                                                        > space it provides it wins out over the centreboard.
                                                      • bris120
                                                        Hi Graeme, You make a good point about the centreboard draft and its practical benefits around beaches and tidal areas. I agree that when you look at the
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Sep 6, 2007
                                                          Hi Graeme,

                                                          You make a good point about the centreboard draft and its practical
                                                          benefits around beaches and tidal areas. I agree that when you look
                                                          at the sketch for the revised layout it looks a bit cramped with both
                                                          the cb and side benches. Hard to tell as just a few inches can make a
                                                          dramatic difference in comfort either way. It has plenty of beam. It
                                                          may be fine for cruising but not for sleeping in? (We are not
                                                          interested in sleeping in the boat so I am more concerned with a
                                                          roomy cockpit for fishing and sailing)

                                                          I have been told the revised layout has 5" wide decks which sounds
                                                          good for perching on but I think they are the same height as the
                                                          original? Bolger commented that the original decks were too high to
                                                          sit on, or under comfortably which inspired the revision in the first
                                                          place.

                                                          I am going to have to mock something up like yourself or start
                                                          looking elsewhere as the uncertainty is killing me!

                                                          Cheers Brett.

                                                          PS Was your Hills Hoist stayed or unstayed? ;)



                                                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Hi Brett,
                                                          >
                                                          > Ahhh... permutations... and time. In the back of my mind somewhere
                                                          > is the thought that actually, for this summer, it will be a 6 sheet
                                                          > disposable Zephyr with a bimini thingo, partial floorboards,
                                                          forward
                                                          > bulwarks, and maybe a lashed-on outrigger with an outboard slung
                                                          > from that...
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > I wrote above that the centreboard (and side benches) wreck the
                                                          > Catfish cabin for cruising. That's not quite what I meant.
                                                          > Comfortable cruising would be possible with one or the other; that
                                                          > is, an adult could find room to stretch out on the original floor
                                                          > with either the cb or the benches, but not both.
                                                          >
                                                          > When I mocked up the lines in the backyard using garden hose,
                                                          > coloured clothes pegs, a kitchen chair with a thick wooden block on
                                                          > it to get the deck height, and a Hills hoist for the mast, I felt
                                                          > that in the original there was enough space between the cb and
                                                          decks
                                                          > to sit out on the decks without cramping the legs too much. Of
                                                          > course, aft of the cb there was more athwartships leg room, and I
                                                          > looked at that option, but would simply prefer the versatility of
                                                          > all the space of the original floor if it's possible with a
                                                          leeboard.
                                                          >
                                                          > I'm 6'2" and fairly sure your wife could get out of the sun in some
                                                          > comfort under a canopy. Sun smart is important to me too! Also,
                                                          bean
                                                          > bags might well suit this boat!
                                                          >
                                                          > The fin keel is simple isn't it, and that's attractive, and as PB&F
                                                          > wrote the finned boat will sail in thinner water, but could it be
                                                          > slid any across a mud bank when taking a short cut? The tidal drop
                                                          > means the boat often would have to be anchored quite a way out
                                                          > (about the same as Micro) and that means either wading a long way
                                                          > through chest high water or knee high mud. And the trailer is not
                                                          as
                                                          > simple. Yep, permutations alright
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Cheers
                                                          > Graeme
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > > .. keel.. I think that from a simplicity point of view and extra
                                                          > > space it provides it wins out over the centreboard.
                                                          >
                                                        • graeme19121984
                                                          ... Go ahead and mock it up Brett. Then both your wife and yourself can sit inside the lines and get a very good feel for how it would work for real. You can
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Sep 6, 2007
                                                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@...> wrote:
                                                            > I am going to have to mock something up like yourself or start
                                                            > looking elsewhere as the uncertainty is killing me!

                                                            Go ahead and mock it up Brett. Then both your wife and yourself can
                                                            sit inside the lines and get a very good feel for how it would work
                                                            for real. You can try out any combination of options from the
                                                            original or upgrade, or others you may think of. My understanding is
                                                            that the deck height for the upgrade wasn't changed. Plenty of room
                                                            for fishing etc. Have you got the study plan? It's easy enough to
                                                            get close enough measurements from that.

                                                            If the salient keel is done away with, another cb option that frees
                                                            up cockpit floor space (I've been looking at it today on another non-
                                                            Bolger boat having a "false" floor that is closely sized and
                                                            proportioned to Catfish) is like the Cartopper solution. A big kick
                                                            up rudder off the transom to make up for a smaller than usual cb
                                                            that could be way up forward. The cb could be high aspect, and being
                                                            relatively long and narrow could have much of its width below the
                                                            floor. The cb case might stick up above the original floor by only
                                                            as much as 6" to 8" or so. The cb case might have to be sealed, so
                                                            there's good and bad. If the board were in a higher case something
                                                            like the brilliant one in SPARKLER (pivot like that in Aussie
                                                            Corsairs if you know them) that might serve without having to be
                                                            sealed (like the upgrade), but OTH it does protrude higher into the
                                                            cockpit space.

                                                            Graeme

                                                            > PS Was your Hills Hoist stayed or unstayed? ;)

                                                            Lots of people seem to opt for other solutions nowadays, but mine's
                                                            stayed unstayed :0)
                                                          • sw3tom
                                                            I came across this discussion while searching for Catfish info. I just ordered the plans after lots of research on different catboats and decided that this one
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Sep 7, 2007
                                                              I came across this discussion while searching for Catfish info. I
                                                              just ordered the plans after lots of research on different catboats
                                                              and decided that this one "fits" me. I will modify the plans to allow
                                                              a more "normal" cat boat cockpit but also retain the canvass shelter
                                                              idea. I don't think that it will be difficult to come up with a good
                                                              compromise.

                                                              The hull itself is similar to many other boats room-wise. I've
                                                              compared it to the study plans of the Wittholz 15' catboat which also
                                                              has a functional cockpit and a forward "cuddy". I think that if I
                                                              keep the cuddy area as designed but reduce the side decks to about 5
                                                              inches with a nice fair from the cuddy that it will work. Then I can
                                                              build in cockpit seats that can also double as narrow births verses
                                                              sleeping on the deck. I will know when the plans arrive and I have
                                                              had a chance to work with them a bit. I don't see why it shouldn't be
                                                              do-able for a daysailor with a camping option.

                                                              I do like the the fixed keel and plan to stay with that. I do think
                                                              that I will frame the hull verses stitch and glue though. I've just
                                                              finished a Mertens PK78 sailing dinghy and while I am impressed with
                                                              the boat and design, I did not enjoy the fiberglass work...and I've
                                                              done plenty. Part of the goal of building a boat is the actual
                                                              building pleasure and I much prefere wood work over epoxy/glass.

                                                              I'm not a heretic though; I understand the benefit of epoxy and will
                                                              plan on using it as fastener but want to skip the filets and glass. I
                                                              have the Glen-L plywood construction book and it should really help.
                                                              I also have a book that shows the Bobcat being this way...

                                                              Good luck if you decide to build and I will try to share my results
                                                              as well.

                                                              Tommy

                                                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
                                                              wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "bris120" <bris120@> wrote:
                                                              > > I am going to have to mock something up like yourself or start
                                                              > > looking elsewhere as the uncertainty is killing me!
                                                              >
                                                              > Go ahead and mock it up Brett. Then both your wife and yourself can
                                                              > sit inside the lines and get a very good feel for how it would work
                                                              > for real. You can try out any combination of options from the
                                                              > original or upgrade, or others you may think of. My understanding
                                                              is
                                                              > that the deck height for the upgrade wasn't changed. Plenty of room
                                                              > for fishing etc. Have you got the study plan? It's easy enough to
                                                              > get close enough measurements from that.
                                                              >
                                                              > If the salient keel is done away with, another cb option that frees
                                                              > up cockpit floor space (I've been looking at it today on another
                                                              non-
                                                              > Bolger boat having a "false" floor that is closely sized and
                                                              > proportioned to Catfish) is like the Cartopper solution. A big kick
                                                              > up rudder off the transom to make up for a smaller than usual cb
                                                              > that could be way up forward. The cb could be high aspect, and
                                                              being
                                                              > relatively long and narrow could have much of its width below the
                                                              > floor. The cb case might stick up above the original floor by only
                                                              > as much as 6" to 8" or so. The cb case might have to be sealed, so
                                                              > there's good and bad. If the board were in a higher case something
                                                              > like the brilliant one in SPARKLER (pivot like that in Aussie
                                                              > Corsairs if you know them) that might serve without having to be
                                                              > sealed (like the upgrade), but OTH it does protrude higher into the
                                                              > cockpit space.
                                                              >
                                                              > Graeme
                                                              >
                                                              > > PS Was your Hills Hoist stayed or unstayed? ;)
                                                              >
                                                              > Lots of people seem to opt for other solutions nowadays, but mine's
                                                              > stayed unstayed :0)
                                                              >
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